Why don’t schools make you just through some hoops for redshirting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents are doing what they think is best for their kid. That is in fact the job of parents.

And there are rules. You have to be enrolled in kindergarten by six. People who redshirt a winter birthday are still following those rules. Adding more rules isn’t going to make it less likely that parents try to choose better for their kids, just restrict the franchise.

We have a September birthday and we’ll likely redshirt her because we know there will be kids who turn seven in her kindergarten and we think it’s unfair for her to be four. That doesn’t make it wrong for the other parents to have made the choice to hold back their five y/o.

That’s not fair to hold her back because of others poor choices.

Why? She’ll be five when she starts kindergarten and won’t be the oldest or the youngest kid in her class, since we know the boys born March-May will likely redshirt and other September kids will be as well.

She’ll spend her “extra” year in a private outdoor-focused preK. She’s not being deprived or being treated unfairly, she’s getting an experience plenty of us what would for our kids— an extra year of childhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

So true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be glad the cutoff is 9/1.

In New York State, it’s 12/31. And people still redshirt summer boys at least, so the gap is huge.

That’s too much. Public schools really need to mandate it. Anything that is 6months from the cutoff should require a medical/learning condition of some sort that they are receiving services for.

Nonsense. You parent your kids, let other people parent theirs.

The point is that it affects others. It affects the class dynamic. It changes the age and size range etc in the class.

Yes, but it affects the dynamic positively. Like in Montessori school when there’s a 3 year age gap between children in the classroom. The older kids teach the younger ones and in the process they gain leadership skills! Sounds like a win-win to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents are doing what they think is best for their kid. That is in fact the job of parents.

And there are rules. You have to be enrolled in kindergarten by six. People who redshirt a winter birthday are still following those rules. Adding more rules isn’t going to make it less likely that parents try to choose better for their kids, just restrict the franchise.

We have a September birthday and we’ll likely redshirt her because we know there will be kids who turn seven in her kindergarten and we think it’s unfair for her to be four. That doesn’t make it wrong for the other parents to have made the choice to hold back their five y/o.

That’s not fair to hold her back because of others poor choices.

Why? She’ll be five when she starts kindergarten and won’t be the oldest or the youngest kid in her class, since we know the boys born March-May will likely redshirt and other September kids will be as well.

She’ll spend her “extra” year in a private outdoor-focused preK. She’s not being deprived or being treated unfairly, she’s getting an experience plenty of us what would for our kids— an extra year of childhood.

You are trading that for an "extra year of childhood" on the other end as well. Most kids don't want to be a 19 year old senior in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents are doing what they think is best for their kid. That is in fact the job of parents.

And there are rules. You have to be enrolled in kindergarten by six. People who redshirt a winter birthday are still following those rules. Adding more rules isn’t going to make it less likely that parents try to choose better for their kids, just restrict the franchise.

We have a September birthday and we’ll likely redshirt her because we know there will be kids who turn seven in her kindergarten and we think it’s unfair for her to be four. That doesn’t make it wrong for the other parents to have made the choice to hold back their five y/o.

That’s not fair to hold her back because of others poor choices.

Why? She’ll be five when she starts kindergarten and won’t be the oldest or the youngest kid in her class, since we know the boys born March-May will likely redshirt and other September kids will be as well.

She’ll spend her “extra” year in a private outdoor-focused preK. She’s not being deprived or being treated unfairly, she’s getting an experience plenty of us what would for our kids— an extra year of childhood.

You are trading that for an "extra year of childhood" on the other end as well. Most kids don't want to be a 19 year old senior in high school.

If she'll be 5 when she starts kindergarten then she'll never be 19 in high school. #math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents are doing what they think is best for their kid. That is in fact the job of parents.

And there are rules. You have to be enrolled in kindergarten by six. People who redshirt a winter birthday are still following those rules. Adding more rules isn’t going to make it less likely that parents try to choose better for their kids, just restrict the franchise.

We have a September birthday and we’ll likely redshirt her because we know there will be kids who turn seven in her kindergarten and we think it’s unfair for her to be four. That doesn’t make it wrong for the other parents to have made the choice to hold back their five y/o.

That’s not fair to hold her back because of others poor choices.

Why? She’ll be five when she starts kindergarten and won’t be the oldest or the youngest kid in her class, since we know the boys born March-May will likely redshirt and other September kids will be as well.

She’ll spend her “extra” year in a private outdoor-focused preK. She’s not being deprived or being treated unfairly, she’s getting an experience plenty of us what would for our kids— an extra year of childhood.

You are trading that for an "extra year of childhood" on the other end as well. Most kids don't want to be a 19 year old senior in high school.

If she'll be 5 when she starts kindergarten then she'll never be 19 in high school. #math

This. She’ll turn 18 in senior year. Just like most of her peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents are doing what they think is best for their kid. That is in fact the job of parents.

And there are rules. You have to be enrolled in kindergarten by six. People who redshirt a winter birthday are still following those rules. Adding more rules isn’t going to make it less likely that parents try to choose better for their kids, just restrict the franchise.

We have a September birthday and we’ll likely redshirt her because we know there will be kids who turn seven in her kindergarten and we think it’s unfair for her to be four. That doesn’t make it wrong for the other parents to have made the choice to hold back their five y/o.

That’s not fair to hold her back because of others poor choices.

Why? She’ll be five when she starts kindergarten and won’t be the oldest or the youngest kid in her class, since we know the boys born March-May will likely redshirt and other September kids will be as well.

She’ll spend her “extra” year in a private outdoor-focused preK. She’s not being deprived or being treated unfairly, she’s getting an experience plenty of us what would for our kids— an extra year of childhood.

As a mom on the other side of this (much older kids), you are doing the right thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents are doing what they think is best for their kid. That is in fact the job of parents.

And there are rules. You have to be enrolled in kindergarten by six. People who redshirt a winter birthday are still following those rules. Adding more rules isn’t going to make it less likely that parents try to choose better for their kids, just restrict the franchise.

We have a September birthday and we’ll likely redshirt her because we know there will be kids who turn seven in her kindergarten and we think it’s unfair for her to be four. That doesn’t make it wrong for the other parents to have made the choice to hold back their five y/o.

That’s not fair to hold her back because of others poor choices.

Why? She’ll be five when she starts kindergarten and won’t be the oldest or the youngest kid in her class, since we know the boys born March-May will likely redshirt and other September kids will be as well.

She’ll spend her “extra” year in a private outdoor-focused preK. She’s not being deprived or being treated unfairly, she’s getting an experience plenty of us what would for our kids— an extra year of childhood.

You are trading that for an "extra year of childhood" on the other end as well. Most kids don't want to be a 19 year old senior in high school.

Why are anti-redshirters never, ever able to do basic math? It is nuts how they continually demonstrate how they can’t add. Is this why they are so insane? Because they are missing basic education and skills?

To spell it out extremely slowly, PPs September-born daughter will never be 19 in high school. Use your hands to count up the months. That might help you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents are doing what they think is best for their kid. That is in fact the job of parents.

And there are rules. You have to be enrolled in kindergarten by six. People who redshirt a winter birthday are still following those rules. Adding more rules isn’t going to make it less likely that parents try to choose better for their kids, just restrict the franchise.

We have a September birthday and we’ll likely redshirt her because we know there will be kids who turn seven in her kindergarten and we think it’s unfair for her to be four. That doesn’t make it wrong for the other parents to have made the choice to hold back their five y/o.

That’s not fair to hold her back because of others poor choices.

Why? She’ll be five when she starts kindergarten and won’t be the oldest or the youngest kid in her class, since we know the boys born March-May will likely redshirt and other September kids will be as well.

She’ll spend her “extra” year in a private outdoor-focused preK. She’s not being deprived or being treated unfairly, she’s getting an experience plenty of us what would for our kids— an extra year of childhood.

As a mom on the other side of this (much older kids), you are doing the right thing.

Thanks. My parents sorely regretted not fighting to redshirt my November born sister (NY schools) so I have no difficulties with this decision. The kind of parent that looks at a four year old and thinks she belongs in kindergarten just so their kid averages higher isn’t the kind of parent whose views I care about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents are doing what they think is best for their kid. That is in fact the job of parents.

And there are rules. You have to be enrolled in kindergarten by six. People who redshirt a winter birthday are still following those rules. Adding more rules isn’t going to make it less likely that parents try to choose better for their kids, just restrict the franchise.

We have a September birthday and we’ll likely redshirt her because we know there will be kids who turn seven in her kindergarten and we think it’s unfair for her to be four. That doesn’t make it wrong for the other parents to have made the choice to hold back their five y/o.

That’s not fair to hold her back because of others poor choices.

Why? She’ll be five when she starts kindergarten and won’t be the oldest or the youngest kid in her class, since we know the boys born March-May will likely redshirt and other September kids will be as well.

She’ll spend her “extra” year in a private outdoor-focused preK. She’s not being deprived or being treated unfairly, she’s getting an experience plenty of us what would for our kids— an extra year of childhood.

As a mom on the other side of this (much older kids), you are doing the right thing.

Agree. My own husband started K at age 4 and had a bad experience - one reason we redshirted our late summer birthday child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be glad the cutoff is 9/1.

In New York State, it’s 12/31. And people still redshirt summer boys at least, so the gap is huge.

That’s too much. Public schools really need to mandate it. Anything that is 6months from the cutoff should require a medical/learning condition of some sort that they are receiving services for.

Nonsense. You parent your kids, let other people parent theirs.

The point is that it affects others. It affects the class dynamic. It changes the age and size range etc in the class.

Yes, but it affects the dynamic positively. Like in Montessori school when there’s a 3 year age gap between children in the classroom. The older kids teach the younger ones and in the process they gain leadership skills! Sounds like a win-win to me.

This is way over-optimistic.

Perhaps some redshirted children are more mature in positive ways, wind up serving as leaders and example. Perhaps. Some percentage.

But anyone who has actually seen time in K and 1st grade classrooms knows that often the "maturity" kids display at these ages isn't positive. It's stuff like introducing aggressive and competitive dynamics at a time when teachers are often trying to teach social-emotional skills. It's kids talking about "dating" and sex with peers because of things they heard from older siblings or more mature TV/movies that most parents wouldn't allow a 5 yr old to watch. It's kids segregating into friend groups earlier than is typical, and younger kids being left behind. It's teasing younger kids for crying in class or still playing with dolls. Because, again, they are 5 years old and are developmentally normal, but they are in classrooms with more "mature" kids who are eager to demonstrate their maturity by asserting dominance and teasing.

And as kids get older, these dynamics can get worse, and classrooms with a large number of late redshirts (spring and even winter birthdays held back and starting K at 6 or 6.5) can see some very bad dynamics emerge around puberty.

Montessori is different because their classrooms are set up for larger age ranges, and also because the families who self-select for Montessori tend to be more willing to invest in helping their kids develop the social-emotional maturity that kids need in that environment. Montessori schools often also counsel out schools with behavioral issues or special needs, and are less willing to put up with aggressive behavior from older children because they think it will benefit their school's athletic programs later on (which is a deal some public schools make when they permit rampant redshirting of kids well outside the typical redshirting bubble).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be glad the cutoff is 9/1.

In New York State, it’s 12/31. And people still redshirt summer boys at least, so the gap is huge.

That’s too much. Public schools really need to mandate it. Anything that is 6months from the cutoff should require a medical/learning condition of some sort that they are receiving services for.

Nonsense. You parent your kids, let other people parent theirs.

The point is that it affects others. It affects the class dynamic. It changes the age and size range etc in the class.

Yes, but it affects the dynamic positively. Like in Montessori school when there’s a 3 year age gap between children in the classroom. The older kids teach the younger ones and in the process they gain leadership skills! Sounds like a win-win to me.

This is way over-optimistic.

Perhaps some redshirted children are more mature in positive ways, wind up serving as leaders and example. Perhaps. Some percentage.

But anyone who has actually seen time in K and 1st grade classrooms knows that often the "maturity" kids display at these ages isn't positive. It's stuff like introducing aggressive and competitive dynamics at a time when teachers are often trying to teach social-emotional skills. It's kids talking about "dating" and sex with peers because of things they heard from older siblings or more mature TV/movies that most parents wouldn't allow a 5 yr old to watch. It's kids segregating into friend groups earlier than is typical, and younger kids being left behind. It's teasing younger kids for crying in class or still playing with dolls. Because, again, they are 5 years old and are developmentally normal, but they are in classrooms with more "mature" kids who are eager to demonstrate their maturity by asserting dominance and teasing.

And as kids get older, these dynamics can get worse, and classrooms with a large number of late redshirts (spring and even winter birthdays held back and starting K at 6 or 6.5) can see some very bad dynamics emerge around puberty.

Montessori is different because their classrooms are set up for larger age ranges, and also because the families who self-select for Montessori tend to be more willing to invest in helping their kids develop the social-emotional maturity that kids need in that environment. Montessori schools often also counsel out schools with behavioral issues or special needs, and are less willing to put up with aggressive behavior from older children because they think it will benefit their school's athletic programs later on (which is a deal some public schools make when they permit rampant redshirting of kids well outside the typical redshirting bubble).

Another reason not to start kindergarten at four. Which means redshirting is the responsible parenting choice, not something that should be restricted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be glad the cutoff is 9/1.

In New York State, it’s 12/31. And people still redshirt summer boys at least, so the gap is huge.

That’s too much. Public schools really need to mandate it. Anything that is 6months from the cutoff should require a medical/learning condition of some sort that they are receiving services for.

Nonsense. You parent your kids, let other people parent theirs.

The point is that it affects others. It affects the class dynamic. It changes the age and size range etc in the class.

Yes, but it affects the dynamic positively. Like in Montessori school when there’s a 3 year age gap between children in the classroom. The older kids teach the younger ones and in the process they gain leadership skills! Sounds like a win-win to me.

This is way over-optimistic.

Perhaps some redshirted children are more mature in positive ways, wind up serving as leaders and example. Perhaps. Some percentage.

But anyone who has actually seen time in K and 1st grade classrooms knows that often the "maturity" kids display at these ages isn't positive. It's stuff like introducing aggressive and competitive dynamics at a time when teachers are often trying to teach social-emotional skills. It's kids talking about "dating" and sex with peers because of things they heard from older siblings or more mature TV/movies that most parents wouldn't allow a 5 yr old to watch. It's kids segregating into friend groups earlier than is typical, and younger kids being left behind. It's teasing younger kids for crying in class or still playing with dolls. Because, again, they are 5 years old and are developmentally normal, but they are in classrooms with more "mature" kids who are eager to demonstrate their maturity by asserting dominance and teasing.

And as kids get older, these dynamics can get worse, and classrooms with a large number of late redshirts (spring and even winter birthdays held back and starting K at 6 or 6.5) can see some very bad dynamics emerge around puberty.

Montessori is different because their classrooms are set up for larger age ranges, and also because the families who self-select for Montessori tend to be more willing to invest in helping their kids develop the social-emotional maturity that kids need in that environment. Montessori schools often also counsel out schools with behavioral issues or special needs, and are less willing to put up with aggressive behavior from older children because they think it will benefit their school's athletic programs later on (which is a deal some public schools make when they permit rampant redshirting of kids well outside the typical redshirting bubble).

What lord of the flies school district do you live in, and why haven’t you fled already?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents are doing what they think is best for their kid. That is in fact the job of parents.

And there are rules. You have to be enrolled in kindergarten by six. People who redshirt a winter birthday are still following those rules. Adding more rules isn’t going to make it less likely that parents try to choose better for their kids, just restrict the franchise.

We have a September birthday and we’ll likely redshirt her because we know there will be kids who turn seven in her kindergarten and we think it’s unfair for her to be four. That doesn’t make it wrong for the other parents to have made the choice to hold back their five y/o.

That’s not fair to hold her back because of others poor choices.

Why? She’ll be five when she starts kindergarten and won’t be the oldest or the youngest kid in her class, since we know the boys born March-May will likely redshirt and other September kids will be as well.

She’ll spend her “extra” year in a private outdoor-focused preK. She’s not being deprived or being treated unfairly, she’s getting an experience plenty of us what would for our kids— an extra year of childhood.

She isn't getting an extra year of childhood, she's losing an extra year of being an adult. She will turn 18 regardless. And, that sounds like a bad idea at an outdoor-focused preschool vs. an academic one. We started our September kid at 4/5 and it's been good. When I ask them, they are glad we didn't hold them back. They don't remember preschool at all so the benefit was far smaller than you think. How do you think she'll feel when her true peers go off to college and she's still stuck for a year in high school. It may sound good now but when your kids get high school age, it's very different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be glad the cutoff is 9/1.

In New York State, it’s 12/31. And people still redshirt summer boys at least, so the gap is huge.

That’s too much. Public schools really need to mandate it. Anything that is 6months from the cutoff should require a medical/learning condition of some sort that they are receiving services for.

Nonsense. You parent your kids, let other people parent theirs.

The point is that it affects others. It affects the class dynamic. It changes the age and size range etc in the class.

Yes, but it affects the dynamic positively. Like in Montessori school when there’s a 3 year age gap between children in the classroom. The older kids teach the younger ones and in the process they gain leadership skills! Sounds like a win-win to me.

This is way over-optimistic.

Perhaps some redshirted children are more mature in positive ways, wind up serving as leaders and example. Perhaps. Some percentage.

But anyone who has actually seen time in K and 1st grade classrooms knows that often the "maturity" kids display at these ages isn't positive. It's stuff like introducing aggressive and competitive dynamics at a time when teachers are often trying to teach social-emotional skills. It's kids talking about "dating" and sex with peers because of things they heard from older siblings or more mature TV/movies that most parents wouldn't allow a 5 yr old to watch. It's kids segregating into friend groups earlier than is typical, and younger kids being left behind. It's teasing younger kids for crying in class or still playing with dolls. Because, again, they are 5 years old and are developmentally normal, but they are in classrooms with more "mature" kids who are eager to demonstrate their maturity by asserting dominance and teasing.

And as kids get older, these dynamics can get worse, and classrooms with a large number of late redshirts (spring and even winter birthdays held back and starting K at 6 or 6.5) can see some very bad dynamics emerge around puberty.

Montessori is different because their classrooms are set up for larger age ranges, and also because the families who self-select for Montessori tend to be more willing to invest in helping their kids develop the social-emotional maturity that kids need in that environment. Montessori schools often also counsel out schools with behavioral issues or special needs, and are less willing to put up with aggressive behavior from older children because they think it will benefit their school's athletic programs later on (which is a deal some public schools make when they permit rampant redshirting of kids well outside the typical redshirting bubble).

What lord of the flies school district do you live in, and why haven’t you fled already?

This was our experience, and it gets worse in HS with mixed classes similar to Montessori. The older kids are burnt out and ready to be out of high school. Lots of bullying and resent with the younger kids, especially if they are outperforming them regardless of age. You can have a freshman or sophomore in precalculus along with a senior. So, think of that age spread of 14-19. The other issue is kids with learning disabilities, which schools and parents ignore for years, become harder to remediate as the child gets older. Everyone things of the kids in elementary school, but its also about high school.