Raising kids in a competitive UMC community? Would you do it all over again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are y'all moving to that is so chill? Honestly, I have friends/family in UMC places all over the country (Chicago burbs, Seattle, SF, Houston, Indianapolis) and everyone is stressed and competitive and driving hours and hours for travel soccer.

TN, SC, NC, Colorado, Florida - those are the ones I personally know people left for.

I’m in a NC area coming from a competitive FL area. Both are competitive. It looks different. Just last week two parents were pushing the refs at a basketball game. Two local board members. The refs got loaded and said it’s a kids game, and the first game, we heard you. If you think this stuff doesn’t happen elsewhere you’re wrong. That said some people don’t participate because in smaller areas they don’t have money or haven’t been exposed to these ideas. And guess what they end up in lower end jobs. So I don’t know. For is it’s been good, because we are ahead of the pack but there are small town striver parents here for sure. Travel parents also. I agree friend groups help but it’s there even if you chose not to participate.

All of this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are y'all moving to that is so chill? Honestly, I have friends/family in UMC places all over the country (Chicago burbs, Seattle, SF, Houston, Indianapolis) and everyone is stressed and competitive and driving hours and hours for travel soccer.

TN, SC, NC, Colorado, Florida - those are the ones I personally know people left for.

I’m in a NC area coming from a competitive FL area. Both are competitive. It looks different. Just last week two parents were pushing the refs at a basketball game. Two local board members. The refs got loaded and said it’s a kids game, and the first game, we heard you. If you think this stuff doesn’t happen elsewhere you’re wrong. That said some people don’t participate because in smaller areas they don’t have money or haven’t been exposed to these ideas. And guess what they end up in lower end jobs. So I don’t know. For is it’s been good, because we are ahead of the pack but there are small town striver parents here for sure. Travel parents also. I agree friend groups help but it’s there even if you chose not to participate.

I don’t know much about NC. Florida absolutely is competitive with sports, much more than the DMV. Florida is also more superficial and places more pressure on beauty. I would rather buy my daughter some lululemon than her asking me for breast implants.

[Anonymous]

You can move to less competitive somewhat rural areas in VA or MD. You don’t have to live in Bethesda or Chevy Chase. I am guessing places like Laurel or Olney or Fredericksburg don’t have the same competitive people as McLean.

I wonder if OP is talking about just money and academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are y'all moving to that is so chill? Honestly, I have friends/family in UMC places all over the country (Chicago burbs, Seattle, SF, Houston, Indianapolis) and everyone is stressed and competitive and driving hours and hours for travel soccer.

TN, SC, NC, Colorado, Florida - those are the ones I personally know people left for.

I’m in a NC area coming from a competitive FL area. Both are competitive. It looks different. Just last week two parents were pushing the refs at a basketball game. Two local board members. The refs got loaded and said it’s a kids game, and the first game, we heard you. If you think this stuff doesn’t happen elsewhere you’re wrong. That said some people don’t participate because in smaller areas they don’t have money or haven’t been exposed to these ideas. And guess what they end up in lower end jobs. So I don’t know. For is it’s been good, because we are ahead of the pack but there are small town striver parents here for sure. Travel parents also. I agree friend groups help but it’s there even if you chose not to participate.

That's more trashy than competitive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up very middle class (real middle class not DCUM "middle" class) in the rural midwest, now live Arlington. There are a ton of benefits to raising kids in an area with so much education and resources and people who strive for excellence. And it doesn't have to be stressful -- that is something parents create. We don't do travel sports or too many extra curriculars. We stress the importance of working hard in school, but not that Ivy's are important (because we don't think they are). We spend our weekends hanging out and camping, hiking, just like we would regardless of where we lived.

This

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I'm pretty sure Loudon county is the richest county in Virginia, or actually the entire country. So not only do you live in the middle of nowhere, but you have crappy schools and you didn't remotely escape that striver mindset.

I’m not going to bother explaining statistics to you, but highest median household income does not equal net worth or even mean/average household income. Most of the families doing all this striving are barely breaking $300k. They are just terrible with money and value superficial things.

Ok? What's your point? I understand statistics, thanks. The point is that the person saying they moved to Loudon County and are then shocked that they're surrounded by strivers missed the memo that that's exactly the kind of person who lives in Loudon County.

I’m that poster and Loudoun County is not a monolith. My kids high school has 40% of students on free and reduced lunch. Saying the medical HHI in Loudoun is over $100k doesn’t mean every (or even most) families in Loudoun are UMC.

And yet you're surrounded by people driving six-figure SUVs. Ok.

LA and NYC also has plenty of poverty.

Places outside of DC seem more focused on beauty. Or DC is just an unattractive city. Lots of well educated unattractive people.

Lots of well-educated, unattractive people with no fashion sense who can't wait to tell you about how well-educated they are... who also think they are making great sacrifices to "help government" while raking in 300k, or, more often, quietly drawing from a family trust and making 150k but having a complex about it because their sister/brother/identical twin is a neurosurgeon in LA/food stylist in NYC and has a much cooler life.

What’s with the fixation on people not being attractive or having fashion sense (which I don’t even think it’s true??)? Like you would come off as a lot less insecure if you had valid criticisms of DC without resorting to attacking people’s looks. It just screams of insecurity and bitterness which are traits you ironically accuse the uglies of…

Not the pp. I am from NYC and people are more attractive in NYC. They dress better and better put together. I used to live and work in Manhattan. Even though I was not especially into fashion, I had retail flagships with their newest and hottest merchandise on display for the world to see. I would buy this and dress stylish. DC isn’t a fashion hub. As pp pointed out, most jobs in dc are relatively boring, especially feds.

So you aren’t friends with people who aren’t fashionable enough for you?

I have now lived in DC for over a decade. I’m absolutely no longer fashionable. My friends in dc are mostly not fashionable either. I don’t choose my friends based on how they look. We wear vineyard vines, lily Pulitzer, lululemon, athleta and Patagonia. I walk around in uggs. None of these are fashionable. I was never brand specific in my shopping in nyc or when I shopped in other cities and countries. I loved boutiques and designers I never heard of before.

Is there a point in there somewhere?

DC is less fashionable than NYC and is less attractive than NYC.

After living in an area, it is only natural for people to blend in with their environment. OP is referring to UMC neighborhoods. My kids fit in and thrive in our UMC/UC neighborhood. None of us are very fashionable, just like our peers.

So? No one is saying Lululemon or Ugg is fashionable. We are saying it’s popular with teens and there is pressure on kids to have the expensive brands.

We have a seven figure HHI and don’t think uggs are expensive. My kids don’t feel pressure to have expensive brands.

I may think a teen wearing a $3k moncler coat might be a bit much but $100 leggings seem fine to me. Buy your kid some Lululemon leggings. Sheesh.

Way to miss the point.

No. She does not miss the point.

If you make over 1mil a year and are unhappy about kids wearing/ expecting $100 leggings, you are going to be unhappy anywhere because unhappiness comes from within you.

If you make 300k like my household, and can't keep up with your neighbors who make over 1 mil, move a little further out. Don't expect your neighbors who make over 1mil to act like they make 300k so your kids can feel better. Imagine you, a grown adult expecting this and complaining about kids' expectations.

There are educated smart people who don’t make 1 mil a year. Find a neighborhood with those and move. My neighbors include surgeons, PHD scientists, lawyers, psychologists, etc. Our HHI range from 250 - 600k, and our kids don't wear $100 leggings because we cannot afford them.

If we could afford those leggings, we would not care that the kids expected them, not because we think they are cheap, but because its not a big issue in the grand scheme of things. Life is short too short to make up problems.

You both miss the point. We make $300k (closer to 400 actually) and live around others also probably making similar. We can “afford” $120 leggings but it’s just a stupid thing to spend on for a growing child and I hate that the other people here also making $300k have decided to be so wasteful with their money in some attempt to make their kids “cool.” I hate that making their kid cool is their main goal in parenting. It’s toxic.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I'm pretty sure Loudon county is the richest county in Virginia, or actually the entire country. So not only do you live in the middle of nowhere, but you have crappy schools and you didn't remotely escape that striver mindset.

I’m not going to bother explaining statistics to you, but highest median household income does not equal net worth or even mean/average household income. Most of the families doing all this striving are barely breaking $300k. They are just terrible with money and value superficial things.

Ok? What's your point? I understand statistics, thanks. The point is that the person saying they moved to Loudon County and are then shocked that they're surrounded by strivers missed the memo that that's exactly the kind of person who lives in Loudon County.

I’m that poster and Loudoun County is not a monolith. My kids high school has 40% of students on free and reduced lunch. Saying the medical HHI in Loudoun is over $100k doesn’t mean every (or even most) families in Loudoun are UMC.

And yet you're surrounded by people driving six-figure SUVs. Ok.

LA and NYC also has plenty of poverty.

Places outside of DC seem more focused on beauty. Or DC is just an unattractive city. Lots of well educated unattractive people.

Lots of well-educated, unattractive people with no fashion sense who can't wait to tell you about how well-educated they are... who also think they are making great sacrifices to "help government" while raking in 300k, or, more often, quietly drawing from a family trust and making 150k but having a complex about it because their sister/brother/identical twin is a neurosurgeon in LA/food stylist in NYC and has a much cooler life.

What’s with the fixation on people not being attractive or having fashion sense (which I don’t even think it’s true??)? Like you would come off as a lot less insecure if you had valid criticisms of DC without resorting to attacking people’s looks. It just screams of insecurity and bitterness which are traits you ironically accuse the uglies of…

Not the pp. I am from NYC and people are more attractive in NYC. They dress better and better put together. I used to live and work in Manhattan. Even though I was not especially into fashion, I had retail flagships with their newest and hottest merchandise on display for the world to see. I would buy this and dress stylish. DC isn’t a fashion hub. As pp pointed out, most jobs in dc are relatively boring, especially feds.

So you aren’t friends with people who aren’t fashionable enough for you?

I have now lived in DC for over a decade. I’m absolutely no longer fashionable. My friends in dc are mostly not fashionable either. I don’t choose my friends based on how they look. We wear vineyard vines, lily Pulitzer, lululemon, athleta and Patagonia. I walk around in uggs. None of these are fashionable. I was never brand specific in my shopping in nyc or when I shopped in other cities and countries. I loved boutiques and designers I never heard of before.

Is there a point in there somewhere?

DC is less fashionable than NYC and is less attractive than NYC.

After living in an area, it is only natural for people to blend in with their environment. OP is referring to UMC neighborhoods. My kids fit in and thrive in our UMC/UC neighborhood. None of us are very fashionable, just like our peers.

So? No one is saying Lululemon or Ugg is fashionable. We are saying it’s popular with teens and there is pressure on kids to have the expensive brands.

We have a seven figure HHI and don’t think uggs are expensive. My kids don’t feel pressure to have expensive brands.

I may think a teen wearing a $3k moncler coat might be a bit much but $100 leggings seem fine to me. Buy your kid some Lululemon leggings. Sheesh.

Way to miss the point.

No. She does not miss the point.

If you make over 1mil a year and are unhappy about kids wearing/ expecting $100 leggings, you are going to be unhappy anywhere because unhappiness comes from within you.

If you make 300k like my household, and can't keep up with your neighbors who make over 1 mil, move a little further out. Don't expect your neighbors who make over 1mil to act like they make 300k so your kids can feel better. Imagine you, a grown adult expecting this and complaining about kids' expectations.

There are educated smart people who don’t make 1 mil a year. Find a neighborhood with those and move. My neighbors include surgeons, PHD scientists, lawyers, psychologists, etc. Our HHI range from 250 - 600k, and our kids don't wear $100 leggings because we cannot afford them.

If we could afford those leggings, we would not care that the kids expected them, not because we think they are cheap, but because its not a big issue in the grand scheme of things. Life is short too short to make up problems.

You both miss the point. We make $300k (closer to 400 actually) and live around others also probably making similar. We can “afford” $120 leggings but it’s just a stupid thing to spend on for a growing child and I hate that the other people here also making $300k have decided to be so wasteful with their money in some attempt to make their kids “cool.” I hate that making their kid cool is their main goal in parenting. It’s toxic.

So don’t spend the money. Unless you move to an intentional community you are likely going to run into lots of people whose parenting philosophy is different from yours. That’s not going to change wherever you live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up very middle class (real middle class not DCUM "middle" class) in the rural midwest, now live Arlington. There are a ton of benefits to raising kids in an area with so much education and resources and people who strive for excellence. And it doesn't have to be stressful -- that is something parents create. We don't do travel sports or too many extra curriculars. We stress the importance of working hard in school, but not that Ivy's are important (because we don't think they are). We spend our weekends hanging out and camping, hiking, just like we would regardless of where we lived.

This

We just moved to a smallish town in Oregon. The difference in quality of what opportunities and activities are available to kids is striking. This place is boring by comparison and lacks diversity, and my teen feels it keenly. So if you’re going to make such a move, do it soon.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I'm pretty sure Loudon county is the richest county in Virginia, or actually the entire country. So not only do you live in the middle of nowhere, but you have crappy schools and you didn't remotely escape that striver mindset.

I’m not going to bother explaining statistics to you, but highest median household income does not equal net worth or even mean/average household income. Most of the families doing all this striving are barely breaking $300k. They are just terrible with money and value superficial things.

Ok? What's your point? I understand statistics, thanks. The point is that the person saying they moved to Loudon County and are then shocked that they're surrounded by strivers missed the memo that that's exactly the kind of person who lives in Loudon County.

I’m that poster and Loudoun County is not a monolith. My kids high school has 40% of students on free and reduced lunch. Saying the medical HHI in Loudoun is over $100k doesn’t mean every (or even most) families in Loudoun are UMC.

And yet you're surrounded by people driving six-figure SUVs. Ok.

LA and NYC also has plenty of poverty.

Places outside of DC seem more focused on beauty. Or DC is just an unattractive city. Lots of well educated unattractive people.

Lots of well-educated, unattractive people with no fashion sense who can't wait to tell you about how well-educated they are... who also think they are making great sacrifices to "help government" while raking in 300k, or, more often, quietly drawing from a family trust and making 150k but having a complex about it because their sister/brother/identical twin is a neurosurgeon in LA/food stylist in NYC and has a much cooler life.

What’s with the fixation on people not being attractive or having fashion sense (which I don’t even think it’s true??)? Like you would come off as a lot less insecure if you had valid criticisms of DC without resorting to attacking people’s looks. It just screams of insecurity and bitterness which are traits you ironically accuse the uglies of…

Not the pp. I am from NYC and people are more attractive in NYC. They dress better and better put together. I used to live and work in Manhattan. Even though I was not especially into fashion, I had retail flagships with their newest and hottest merchandise on display for the world to see. I would buy this and dress stylish. DC isn’t a fashion hub. As pp pointed out, most jobs in dc are relatively boring, especially feds.

So you aren’t friends with people who aren’t fashionable enough for you?

I have now lived in DC for over a decade. I’m absolutely no longer fashionable. My friends in dc are mostly not fashionable either. I don’t choose my friends based on how they look. We wear vineyard vines, lily Pulitzer, lululemon, athleta and Patagonia. I walk around in uggs. None of these are fashionable. I was never brand specific in my shopping in nyc or when I shopped in other cities and countries. I loved boutiques and designers I never heard of before.

Is there a point in there somewhere?

DC is less fashionable than NYC and is less attractive than NYC.

After living in an area, it is only natural for people to blend in with their environment. OP is referring to UMC neighborhoods. My kids fit in and thrive in our UMC/UC neighborhood. None of us are very fashionable, just like our peers.

So? No one is saying Lululemon or Ugg is fashionable. We are saying it’s popular with teens and there is pressure on kids to have the expensive brands.

We have a seven figure HHI and don’t think uggs are expensive. My kids don’t feel pressure to have expensive brands.

I may think a teen wearing a $3k moncler coat might be a bit much but $100 leggings seem fine to me. Buy your kid some Lululemon leggings. Sheesh.

Way to miss the point.

No. She does not miss the point.

If you make over 1mil a year and are unhappy about kids wearing/ expecting $100 leggings, you are going to be unhappy anywhere because unhappiness comes from within you.

If you make 300k like my household, and can't keep up with your neighbors who make over 1 mil, move a little further out. Don't expect your neighbors who make over 1mil to act like they make 300k so your kids can feel better. Imagine you, a grown adult expecting this and complaining about kids' expectations.

There are educated smart people who don’t make 1 mil a year. Find a neighborhood with those and move. My neighbors include surgeons, PHD scientists, lawyers, psychologists, etc. Our HHI range from 250 - 600k, and our kids don't wear $100 leggings because we cannot afford them.

If we could afford those leggings, we would not care that the kids expected them, not because we think they are cheap, but because its not a big issue in the grand scheme of things. Life is short too short to make up problems.

You both miss the point. We make $300k (closer to 400 actually) and live around others also probably making similar. We can “afford” $120 leggings but it’s just a stupid thing to spend on for a growing child and I hate that the other people here also making $300k have decided to be so wasteful with their money in some attempt to make their kids “cool.” I hate that making their kid cool is their main goal in parenting. It’s toxic.

So don’t spend the money. Unless you move to an intentional community you are likely going to run into lots of people whose parenting philosophy is different from yours. That’s not going to change wherever you live.

There are definitely places to live where people don’t feel the need to make their children “better” than other children by what they own or wear. It’s sad that you think that is the only way.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I'm pretty sure Loudon county is the richest county in Virginia, or actually the entire country. So not only do you live in the middle of nowhere, but you have crappy schools and you didn't remotely escape that striver mindset.

I’m not going to bother explaining statistics to you, but highest median household income does not equal net worth or even mean/average household income. Most of the families doing all this striving are barely breaking $300k. They are just terrible with money and value superficial things.

Ok? What's your point? I understand statistics, thanks. The point is that the person saying they moved to Loudon County and are then shocked that they're surrounded by strivers missed the memo that that's exactly the kind of person who lives in Loudon County.

I’m that poster and Loudoun County is not a monolith. My kids high school has 40% of students on free and reduced lunch. Saying the medical HHI in Loudoun is over $100k doesn’t mean every (or even most) families in Loudoun are UMC.

And yet you're surrounded by people driving six-figure SUVs. Ok.

LA and NYC also has plenty of poverty.

Places outside of DC seem more focused on beauty. Or DC is just an unattractive city. Lots of well educated unattractive people.

Lots of well-educated, unattractive people with no fashion sense who can't wait to tell you about how well-educated they are... who also think they are making great sacrifices to "help government" while raking in 300k, or, more often, quietly drawing from a family trust and making 150k but having a complex about it because their sister/brother/identical twin is a neurosurgeon in LA/food stylist in NYC and has a much cooler life.

What’s with the fixation on people not being attractive or having fashion sense (which I don’t even think it’s true??)? Like you would come off as a lot less insecure if you had valid criticisms of DC without resorting to attacking people’s looks. It just screams of insecurity and bitterness which are traits you ironically accuse the uglies of…

Not the pp. I am from NYC and people are more attractive in NYC. They dress better and better put together. I used to live and work in Manhattan. Even though I was not especially into fashion, I had retail flagships with their newest and hottest merchandise on display for the world to see. I would buy this and dress stylish. DC isn’t a fashion hub. As pp pointed out, most jobs in dc are relatively boring, especially feds.

So you aren’t friends with people who aren’t fashionable enough for you?

I have now lived in DC for over a decade. I’m absolutely no longer fashionable. My friends in dc are mostly not fashionable either. I don’t choose my friends based on how they look. We wear vineyard vines, lily Pulitzer, lululemon, athleta and Patagonia. I walk around in uggs. None of these are fashionable. I was never brand specific in my shopping in nyc or when I shopped in other cities and countries. I loved boutiques and designers I never heard of before.

Is there a point in there somewhere?

DC is less fashionable than NYC and is less attractive than NYC.

After living in an area, it is only natural for people to blend in with their environment. OP is referring to UMC neighborhoods. My kids fit in and thrive in our UMC/UC neighborhood. None of us are very fashionable, just like our peers.

So? No one is saying Lululemon or Ugg is fashionable. We are saying it’s popular with teens and there is pressure on kids to have the expensive brands.

We have a seven figure HHI and don’t think uggs are expensive. My kids don’t feel pressure to have expensive brands.

I may think a teen wearing a $3k moncler coat might be a bit much but $100 leggings seem fine to me. Buy your kid some Lululemon leggings. Sheesh.

Way to miss the point.

No. She does not miss the point.

If you make over 1mil a year and are unhappy about kids wearing/ expecting $100 leggings, you are going to be unhappy anywhere because unhappiness comes from within you.

If you make 300k like my household, and can't keep up with your neighbors who make over 1 mil, move a little further out. Don't expect your neighbors who make over 1mil to act like they make 300k so your kids can feel better. Imagine you, a grown adult expecting this and complaining about kids' expectations.

There are educated smart people who don’t make 1 mil a year. Find a neighborhood with those and move. My neighbors include surgeons, PHD scientists, lawyers, psychologists, etc. Our HHI range from 250 - 600k, and our kids don't wear $100 leggings because we cannot afford them.

If we could afford those leggings, we would not care that the kids expected them, not because we think they are cheap, but because its not a big issue in the grand scheme of things. Life is short too short to make up problems.

You both miss the point. We make $300k (closer to 400 actually) and live around others also probably making similar. We can “afford” $120 leggings but it’s just a stupid thing to spend on for a growing child and I hate that the other people here also making $300k have decided to be so wasteful with their money in some attempt to make their kids “cool.” I hate that making their kid cool is their main goal in parenting. It’s toxic.

So don’t spend the money. Unless you move to an intentional community you are likely going to run into lots of people whose parenting philosophy is different from yours. That’s not going to change wherever you live.

There are definitely places to live where people don’t feel the need to make their children “better” than other children by what they own or wear. It’s sad that you think that is the only way.

I think you misunderstood. My kid has never had “in clothes”— I don’t know what they are and it would never in a million years occur to me to come onto DCUM and ask what the in brands are for kids these days.

But if someone else wants to buy those clothes for their kid that’s fine. I am not in competition with those parents so the clothes they buy don’t affect me.

No one can make you feel inferior without your permission and while I certainly feel out of place and not “in” at times it would never occur to me that the solution to that is buying me and my kid lululemon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Fairfield County, CT and it was absolutely miserable. I would not do it again.

Fairfield County is real money.

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Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

Yes, I despise this culture and it seems to be ubiquitous in all the DMV affluent areas. So shallow and boring, producing so many vapid and uber-spoiled kids.

Yes. We moved from DC a few yrs ago to a mid sized middle class town. My teen has zero interest in lululemon, Starbucks, Stanley cups and high end skincare and makeup. It just isn’t on her radar at all, or that of her friends’ and schoolmates from what I gather.

I always hear about Lululemon online. Lululemon is really not all that expensive. I have boys though who don’t care about brands.

I grew up in an affluent neighborhood. I was very confident and always got a lot of attention from the guys. A cute dress doesn’t have to be brand name. Your makeup also doesn’t have to be expensive.

Even as a middle aged woman, I see woman who spend a lot of money on makeup and that doesn’t mean she is prettier.

Teach your girls to be confident.

My friend was looking for gifts for her teen nieces and nephews. I said I read online about Stanley cups and Lululemon. She just bought it and didn’t consider it an expensive gift. Same with uggs or crocs. I hardly think these items are expensive.

Really? You don’t think $100 leggings, $120 hoodie, $45 water bottle and $100 slippers, $50 eye shadow palette is totally normal for a 12 yr old?

Exactly. It's the expectation that these kids will have clothes that cost this much, wear it for a season, and then ditch it because they grew three inches or it's no longer in fashion. It's really toxic and it's frustrating when you are trying to parent to teach your kid that those expectations are unrealistic and wasteful, when the majority families at your school or in your neighborhood are like "it's fine who cares."

Yes. And if some parents haven’t experienced this, they wouldn’t understand. But that doesn’t make it untrue, and it’s really toxic. I’ve never owned a pair of $120 pants in my life and I never plan to.

I mean ok kudos to you but some of us have office jobs...where we need to, you know, look professional...

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Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Fairfield County, CT and it was absolutely miserable. I would not do it again.

Fairfield County is real money.

X10000. I live in Fairfield County, CT and actually dream about moving to DC because it seems way less competitive.

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Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

Yes, I despise this culture and it seems to be ubiquitous in all the DMV affluent areas. So shallow and boring, producing so many vapid and uber-spoiled kids.

Yes. We moved from DC a few yrs ago to a mid sized middle class town. My teen has zero interest in lululemon, Starbucks, Stanley cups and high end skincare and makeup. It just isn’t on her radar at all, or that of her friends’ and schoolmates from what I gather.

I always hear about Lululemon online. Lululemon is really not all that expensive. I have boys though who don’t care about brands.

I grew up in an affluent neighborhood. I was very confident and always got a lot of attention from the guys. A cute dress doesn’t have to be brand name. Your makeup also doesn’t have to be expensive.

Even as a middle aged woman, I see woman who spend a lot of money on makeup and that doesn’t mean she is prettier.

Teach your girls to be confident.

My friend was looking for gifts for her teen nieces and nephews. I said I read online about Stanley cups and Lululemon. She just bought it and didn’t consider it an expensive gift. Same with uggs or crocs. I hardly think these items are expensive.

Really? You don’t think $100 leggings, $120 hoodie, $45 water bottle and $100 slippers, $50 eye shadow palette is totally normal for a 12 yr old?

Exactly. It's the expectation that these kids will have clothes that cost this much, wear it for a season, and then ditch it because they grew three inches or it's no longer in fashion. It's really toxic and it's frustrating when you are trying to parent to teach your kid that those expectations are unrealistic and wasteful, when the majority families at your school or in your neighborhood are like "it's fine who cares."

Yes. And if some parents haven’t experienced this, they wouldn’t understand. But that doesn’t make it untrue, and it’s really toxic. I’ve never owned a pair of $120 pants in my life and I never plan to.

I mean ok kudos to you but some of us have office jobs...where we need to, you know, look professional...

Yeah, some of us have to look professional and dress well.

I grew up in a wealthy close in suburb of a major city and now live in a similar type suburb of DC. It is great to have a short commute to DC. My kids have friends from a diverse group of people from all over the world.

I am a child of immigrants. I love how we have so many food options in the DMV. I love that my kids have friends who are children of international families. I do think some of the academic competition comes from the Asians and we are Asian. I still like that my kids have classmates who look like them. I was always the token Asian growing up.

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Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I'm pretty sure Loudon county is the richest county in Virginia, or actually the entire country. So not only do you live in the middle of nowhere, but you have crappy schools and you didn't remotely escape that striver mindset.

I’m not going to bother explaining statistics to you, but highest median household income does not equal net worth or even mean/average household income. Most of the families doing all this striving are barely breaking $300k. They are just terrible with money and value superficial things.

Ok? What's your point? I understand statistics, thanks. The point is that the person saying they moved to Loudon County and are then shocked that they're surrounded by strivers missed the memo that that's exactly the kind of person who lives in Loudon County.

I’m that poster and Loudoun County is not a monolith. My kids high school has 40% of students on free and reduced lunch. Saying the medical HHI in Loudoun is over $100k doesn’t mean every (or even most) families in Loudoun are UMC.

And yet you're surrounded by people driving six-figure SUVs. Ok.

LA and NYC also has plenty of poverty.

Places outside of DC seem more focused on beauty. Or DC is just an unattractive city. Lots of well educated unattractive people.

Lots of well-educated, unattractive people with no fashion sense who can't wait to tell you about how well-educated they are... who also think they are making great sacrifices to "help government" while raking in 300k, or, more often, quietly drawing from a family trust and making 150k but having a complex about it because their sister/brother/identical twin is a neurosurgeon in LA/food stylist in NYC and has a much cooler life.

What’s with the fixation on people not being attractive or having fashion sense (which I don’t even think it’s true??)? Like you would come off as a lot less insecure if you had valid criticisms of DC without resorting to attacking people’s looks. It just screams of insecurity and bitterness which are traits you ironically accuse the uglies of…

Not the pp. I am from NYC and people are more attractive in NYC. They dress better and better put together. I used to live and work in Manhattan. Even though I was not especially into fashion, I had retail flagships with their newest and hottest merchandise on display for the world to see. I would buy this and dress stylish. DC isn’t a fashion hub. As pp pointed out, most jobs in dc are relatively boring, especially feds.

So you aren’t friends with people who aren’t fashionable enough for you?

I have now lived in DC for over a decade. I’m absolutely no longer fashionable. My friends in dc are mostly not fashionable either. I don’t choose my friends based on how they look. We wear vineyard vines, lily Pulitzer, lululemon, athleta and Patagonia. I walk around in uggs. None of these are fashionable. I was never brand specific in my shopping in nyc or when I shopped in other cities and countries. I loved boutiques and designers I never heard of before.

Is there a point in there somewhere?

DC is less fashionable than NYC and is less attractive than NYC.

After living in an area, it is only natural for people to blend in with their environment. OP is referring to UMC neighborhoods. My kids fit in and thrive in our UMC/UC neighborhood. None of us are very fashionable, just like our peers.

So? No one is saying Lululemon or Ugg is fashionable. We are saying it’s popular with teens and there is pressure on kids to have the expensive brands.

We have a seven figure HHI and don’t think uggs are expensive. My kids don’t feel pressure to have expensive brands.

I may think a teen wearing a $3k moncler coat might be a bit much but $100 leggings seem fine to me. Buy your kid some Lululemon leggings. Sheesh.

Way to miss the point.

No. She does not miss the point.

If you make over 1mil a year and are unhappy about kids wearing/ expecting $100 leggings, you are going to be unhappy anywhere because unhappiness comes from within you.

If you make 300k like my household, and can't keep up with your neighbors who make over 1 mil, move a little further out. Don't expect your neighbors who make over 1mil to act like they make 300k so your kids can feel better. Imagine you, a grown adult expecting this and complaining about kids' expectations.

There are educated smart people who don’t make 1 mil a year. Find a neighborhood with those and move. My neighbors include surgeons, PHD scientists, lawyers, psychologists, etc. Our HHI range from 250 - 600k, and our kids don't wear $100 leggings because we cannot afford them.

If we could afford those leggings, we would not care that the kids expected them, not because we think they are cheap, but because its not a big issue in the grand scheme of things. Life is short too short to make up problems.

You both miss the point. We make $300k (closer to 400 actually) and live around others also probably making similar. We can “afford” $120 leggings but it’s just a stupid thing to spend on for a growing child and I hate that the other people here also making $300k have decided to be so wasteful with their money in some attempt to make their kids “cool.” I hate that making their kid cool is their main goal in parenting. It’s toxic.

No. You cannot regularly afford $120 leggings for children on that income unless you have a trust fund or some other source of income. And you might be less angry and judgmental when you realize that.

If your children are smart, they would be grateful for reasonable parents if you choose not to keep up with the Joneses.