Raising kids in a competitive UMC community? Would you do it all over again?

[Anonymous]

We are currently raising our kids in a very competitive UMC community. There’s some racial diversity but next to no socioeconomic diversity. Top 1 percent ranked public school in the national, starting price for a modest house is 1.5-2n… it’s very much a bubble. Kids are extremely involved in extracurriculars across the board and it’s a very strong community. In many ways we are happy with it but I also have this nagging feeling maybe it’s not the answer for my family and my kids. I grew up in a small middle class town where everyone made the team in HS and college was expected but community college was okay too. It wasn’t a pressure cooker environment. We were just kids and had a lot of leisure time. I went on to private school in college and experienced the uber wealthy and those from much lower incomes in my social circle as well as a lot of diversity. I think I personally benefitted from it and do well with all kinds of people. We own a second home in a rural area. My kids are 6,8 and 9. I’m considering moving there where it’s a much simpler lifestyle and not so competitive. I would love to hear what people have to say about their own experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are currently raising our kids in a very competitive UMC community. There’s some racial diversity but next to no socioeconomic diversity. Top 1 percent ranked public school in the national, starting price for a modest house is 1.5-2n… it’s very much a bubble. Kids are extremely involved in extracurriculars across the board and it’s a very strong community. In many ways we are happy with it but I also have this nagging feeling maybe it’s not the answer for my family and my kids. I grew up in a small middle class town where everyone made the team in HS and college was expected but community college was okay too. It wasn’t a pressure cooker environment. We were just kids and had a lot of leisure time. I went on to private school in college and experienced the uber wealthy and those from much lower incomes in my social circle as well as a lot of diversity. I think I personally benefitted from it and do well with all kinds of people. We own a second home in a rural area. My kids are 6,8 and 9. I’m considering moving there where it’s a much simpler lifestyle and not so competitive. I would love to hear what people have to say about their own experiences.

Hard NO from me chiming in from a childhood in Scarsdale and Rye.

[Anonymous]

I was raised in a competitive, UMC suburb but lived in a house that just squeaked into the school district because of weird boundaries and grandfathering in of formerly unincorporated areas when fancy subdivisions were built. So I experienced it as an outsider socioeconomically and it wasn’t great.

Now I live in a city school district but in an exclusive neighborhood. The majority of kids in the neighborhood attend the zoned school or a nearby private school. My child attends the private school as a way to escape the bubble. It is so much more socioeconomically and racially diverse. It still isn’t perfect, but my DD does an extracurricular activity that pulls girls from all over the region of all backgrounds so she is getting a very different childhood than many of her classmates or neighbors.

We also have a home in a more rural area. We briefly considered the move, but unfortunately the area has one public k-12 with graduating classes of less than 10 kids. Most of those children do not go to college and the school pulls from a vast geographic area. It went far beyond simpler lifestyle and not so competitive to straight up hardship and economic and educational poverty.

I went to Dartmouth for med school, and a book came out a while ago about Norwich, VT (town adjacent to Hanover NH) called Norwich: One Tiny Vermont Town’s Secret to Excellence and Happiness. I was quite taken with it because I had lived in Norwich and loved the idea of raising children in an environment that creates excellence without cutthroat competition. Except that the reality described in the book didn’t quite match the real experience. Most of the families who were able to take a low-key approach to academics and extracurriculars there had so, so much existing privilege, wealth, or education. And ultimately they were still going along with the rat race, just in a really different setting and opportunities slightly out of the mainstream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are currently raising our kids in a very competitive UMC community. There’s some racial diversity but next to no socioeconomic diversity. Top 1 percent ranked public school in the national, starting price for a modest house is 1.5-2n… it’s very much a bubble.

I have been down your "road not taken" after two stints living in the MD suburbs in "W" school neighborhoods.

I enjoyed the more relaxed, somewhat less UMC communities that I lived in before and after my year at a "W" feeder middle school quite a long time ago. I found there was a lot more snobbery and pointless academic pressure at that school compared to where I had come from and where I lived next after a second rapid interstate move. That experience is why I decided that I would never endorse attending "the best" schools just based on reputation.

In my 20s, I worked in DC and lived in the MD catchment area of another "W" school. Plainly put, my husband and I couldn't figure out how to finance the life we wanted in that area so we moved away. At the time, I would have aspired to a $450-$650K tiny colonial somewhat within walking distance to the Bethesda Metro. These houses are now 2x-4x the price. Could not have afforded that kind of house before grad school and would have sacrificed probably 10 years of young family life to getting financially comfortable if we had moved back to where I wanted to live.

We now live in a small suburban city far from the DMV that is much like the old Bethesda when it was mostly homey and a low rise downtown. I absolutely love it.

The school district is considered Top 50 in the state. It is socioeconomically diverse LMC/MC/some UMC but not very racially diverse. However, it's much more diverse than my elementary or high school (outside the DMV).

Here have been the pros:

-Kids are able to relax and still do well, no insecurities and no tears related to competition
-Kids understand what it means to be poor and what it means to be privileged, and there is almost no bullying based on status since the richest kids are very low-key about it
-Extracurriculars are sufficient/everyone can participate/weeding out is rare
-Kids can easily be leaders

Here are the cons:

-UMC striver values are sometimes alien. School admins and counselors don't understand why parents care so much about particular school issues. And they are more focused on consensus and getting by in a pleasant manner than on encouraging excellence.

-Kids are sometimes bored because education is not hard enough given what local parents will accept and few subjects have ability tracking until high school.

-Kids slack because they can, and this can result in grade dips.

-Few friends can serve as role models and there is a limited choice of friends who are highly compatible.

-Some racial tensions in the schools due to the times we are living in, and precisely because it is not a homogenous UMC community. My kids have definitely had to grapple with some uncomfortable situations that I never experienced as a child. Don't know if that will make them more or less tolerant in the end. I think more tolerant but also more cynical, if that makes sense.

When I talk to my friends who are in "better" districts, they also report a lot of crazy b.s. is going on in their schools. So, I conclude the main issue for my kids in an imperfect school district really relates to not being challenged enough. But my hypothesis has always been that college is really the best time to stretch one's self and that high school burnout is real. So I've been playing a long game. I will only know if my plans to protect my kids' sanity worked out once they are through college.

I have Ivy-educated parents but I'm a big believer in cost-efficiency so my household is state flagship-oriented. I think economically we've achieved the same standard of living as my Ivy relatives except for not having pensions due to being Gen X and our career choices. I can say that the economics of living outside the DMV has been wonderfully manageable (house, childcare, commuting, etc.).

So, I can't answer the question of whether I would raise kids in the DMV "again". But I think on balance, I would still make the same decision to move away and raise kids elsewhere. I just want my kids to be intelligent, happy, and well-adjusted. It's a fair question, though, as to whether I'd shoot for a better school district in my current area if I had a do-over. Leaning towards no, but am not firm in that conviction. Which is why I enjoy pressing my nose to the glass that is DCUM...it's my "road not taken"!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are currently raising our kids in a very competitive UMC community. There’s some racial diversity but next to no socioeconomic diversity. Top 1 percent ranked public school in the national, starting price for a modest house is 1.5-2n… it’s very much a bubble.

I have been down your "road not taken" after two stints living in the MD suburbs in "W" school neighborhoods.

I enjoyed the more relaxed, somewhat less UMC communities that I lived in before and after my year at a "W" feeder middle school quite a long time ago. I found there was a lot more snobbery and pointless academic pressure at that school compared to where I had come from and where I lived next after a second rapid interstate move. That experience is why I decided that I would never endorse attending "the best" schools just based on reputation.

In my 20s, I worked in DC and lived in the MD catchment area of another "W" school. Plainly put, my husband and I couldn't figure out how to finance the life we wanted in that area so we moved away. At the time, I would have aspired to a $450-$650K tiny colonial somewhat within walking distance to the Bethesda Metro. These houses are now 2x-4x the price. Could not have afforded that kind of house before grad school and would have sacrificed probably 10 years of young family life to getting financially comfortable if we had moved back to where I wanted to live.

We now live in a small suburban city far from the DMV that is much like the old Bethesda when it was mostly homey and a low rise downtown. I absolutely love it.

The school district is considered Top 50 in the state. It is socioeconomically diverse LMC/MC/some UMC but not very racially diverse. However, it's much more diverse than my elementary or high school (outside the DMV).

Here have been the pros:

-Kids are able to relax and still do well, no insecurities and no tears related to competition
-Kids understand what it means to be poor and what it means to be privileged, and there is almost no bullying based on status since the richest kids are very low-key about it
-Extracurriculars are sufficient/everyone can participate/weeding out is rare
-Kids can easily be leaders

Here are the cons:

-UMC striver values are sometimes alien. School admins and counselors don't understand why parents care so much about particular school issues. And they are more focused on consensus and getting by in a pleasant manner than on encouraging excellence.

-Kids are sometimes bored because education is not hard enough given what local parents will accept and few subjects have ability tracking until high school.

-Kids slack because they can, and this can result in grade dips.

-Few friends can serve as role models and there is a limited choice of friends who are highly compatible.

-Some racial tensions in the schools due to the times we are living in, and precisely because it is not a homogenous UMC community. My kids have definitely had to grapple with some uncomfortable situations that I never experienced as a child. Don't know if that will make them more or less tolerant in the end. I think more tolerant but also more cynical, if that makes sense.

When I talk to my friends who are in "better" districts, they also report a lot of crazy b.s. is going on in their schools. So, I conclude the main issue for my kids in an imperfect school district really relates to not being challenged enough. But my hypothesis has always been that college is really the best time to stretch one's self and that high school burnout is real. So I've been playing a long game. I will only know if my plans to protect my kids' sanity worked out once they are through college.

I have Ivy-educated parents but I'm a big believer in cost-efficiency so my household is state flagship-oriented. I think economically we've achieved the same standard of living as my Ivy relatives except for not having pensions due to being Gen X and our career choices. I can say that the economics of living outside the DMV has been wonderfully manageable (house, childcare, commuting, etc.).

So, I can't answer the question of whether I would raise kids in the DMV "again". But I think on balance, I would still make the same decision to move away and raise kids elsewhere. I just want my kids to be intelligent, happy, and well-adjusted. It's a fair question, though, as to whether I'd shoot for a better school district in my current area if I had a do-over. Leaning towards no, but am not firm in that conviction. Which is why I enjoy pressing my nose to the glass that is DCUM...it's my "road not taken"!

What are some examples of places like this? Are you talking about “far from the DMV” like central VA or are you talking about moving out west or other regions of the US? Some of us who have never lived anywhere else truly do not know how to find anything else. I admit that my perception is warped from

[Anonymous]

We chose to leave. Uprooted our kids in high, middle and elementary schools and left for a lower cost, more chill area. We were done with the college admissions rat race and running our kids down with the extracurriculars.

It has its pros and cons. Where we are now, there’s not a lot of organized sports on the weekends, and with three active kids, it’s harder to keep them busy and engaged without the sports. People look at me strangely when I mention that my kids have weekly zoom tutoring for enrichment. Sometimes I stress we are challenging them enough.

On the flip side, we spend time as a family boating, fishing, hiking.

I have no idea how this will play out with college, but I think on the whole it was the right decision. We feel more balanced and the kids are happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We chose to leave. Uprooted our kids in high, middle and elementary schools and left for a lower cost, more chill area. We were done with the college admissions rat race and running our kids down with the extracurriculars.

It has its pros and cons. Where we are now, there’s not a lot of organized sports on the weekends, and with three active kids, it’s harder to keep them busy and engaged without the sports. People look at me strangely when I mention that my kids have weekly zoom tutoring for enrichment. Sometimes I stress we are challenging them enough.

On the flip side, we spend time as a family boating, fishing, hiking.

I have no idea how this will play out with college, but I think on the whole it was the right decision. We feel more balanced and the kids are happy.

Oh and like PP, my teen is southern flagship not Ivy oriented anyway. We’ll see in a couple years how the college path heads but I feel like it will work out nicely.

[Anonymous]

You can cry tonihhh

[Anonymous]

We didn't even choose to do it a first time. We moved to the Chicago suburbs- much lower COL, midwest friendliness, great public schools.

Absolutely zero regrets.

[Anonymous]

Just my 2 cents. But I think it's much better for kids to be raised in less stressful environments.

[Anonymous]

We stopped and moved. We didn't like how shallow everyone was and how much everyone thought every little thing meant something huge. So much happier now.

[Anonymous]

We are at a very competitive school district too, we care about academics but don’t push for it, DC is one of the few didn’t join the school science and math competitions ( I asked if dc wanted to join since DC said nearly everyone joined, but DC said no, I didn’t want him to join but if he wanted probably will let him go), while many are planing for algebra 1 in 7th we just want to hold and even consider keep DC in base school (if DC agreed), and not interested in TJ at all. I think people have kids be competitive are fine if they can handle it, people like us think differently are fine too, we just choose not to have kids be competitive. We have no option to move or send kids to private, but even if we have the option we probably will just stay where we are since kids have their friend group here already, and we like our neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Ha! I grew up in Hanover, NH. The only people who could afford to live in Hanover, NH and Norwich, VT (we shared most of middle and high school) were white collar professionals. Very high cost of living and in those areas really only met by tenured professors, doctors, with a few exceptions.

Anonymous wrote:I was raised in a competitive, UMC suburb but lived in a house that just squeaked into the school district because of weird boundaries and grandfathering in of formerly unincorporated areas when fancy subdivisions were built. So I experienced it as an outsider socioeconomically and it wasn’t great.

Now I live in a city school district but in an exclusive neighborhood. The majority of kids in the neighborhood attend the zoned school or a nearby private school. My child attends the private school as a way to escape the bubble. It is so much more socioeconomically and racially diverse. It still isn’t perfect, but my DD does an extracurricular activity that pulls girls from all over the region of all backgrounds so she is getting a very different childhood than many of her classmates or neighbors.

We also have a home in a more rural area. We briefly considered the move, but unfortunately the area has one public k-12 with graduating classes of less than 10 kids. Most of those children do not go to college and the school pulls from a vast geographic area. It went far beyond simpler lifestyle and not so competitive to straight up hardship and economic and educational poverty.

I went to Dartmouth for med school, and a book came out a while ago about Norwich, VT (town adjacent to Hanover NH) called Norwich: One Tiny Vermont Town’s Secret to Excellence and Happiness. I was quite taken with it because I had lived in Norwich and loved the idea of raising children in an environment that creates excellence without cutthroat competition. Except that the reality described in the book didn’t quite match the real experience. Most of the families who were able to take a low-key approach to academics and extracurriculars there had so, so much existing privilege, wealth, or education. And ultimately they were still going along with the rat race, just in a really different setting and opportunities slightly out of the mainstream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just my 2 cents. But I think it's much better for kids to be raised in less stressful environments.

+1, it really only take a little perspective to recognize that it's just not a healthy environment for kids and also sets them up for a lifetime of striving to stay in that bubble and keep their kids in that bubble. On top of kind of ruining their childhood by convincing them that they always need to be the best and competing for the best.

That, to me, is actually the worst thing about these bubbles. Not that they keep other people out but that they convince people inside them that they are doing a good thing when even just a little bit of exposure to another approach would demonstrate what was wrong with it. You see it in these communities when someone does actually make another choice or choose to leave -- people are often highly critical, roll their eyes at it, reject these families socially. Because the idea that a parent might choose to put their kids in less competitive environments, on purpose for their well-being, is anathema to their entire approach so it can't just be viewed as "live and let live" -- it must be ridiculed and rejected as a threat. That's what happens in a hyper competitive bubble where there is only one goal and you must fight for it.

[Anonymous]

I grew up in Silver Spring but went to a competitive private high school with a great deal of wealth. At the time, I didn’t mind the pressure over academics and extracurriculars. Nor did I mind coming from a neighborhood outside the wealthiest bubble.

My husband and I ended up meeting and settling in the Midwest where we both attended law school. Our daughters attend their zoned public school in a small district. The school is fairly diverse and has a wonderful community of dedicated parents. Our oldest was accepted into the district gifted program based in her Cogat score, but the district discourages test “prep.” I’ve found the school and community to provide a great balance and don’t miss the DC area intensity.