APS DHMS walk zone nuclear option

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.

What is Though Exchange? I’ve never heard of that in my years at APS.

Taylor parents have been gathering input here http://www.hammwalkers.org/

Can you post Thought Exchange there?

https://www.apsva.us/engage/thoughtexchange/

The petition is a great step but the Thought Exchange is going directly to APS on a daily basis. Plus it’s shiny and new so therefore loved by Syphax.

So will staff even consider the petition?

Doubtful. The main arguments as presented are walking is good and don’t split Taylor for MS. They already know walking is good but they want to bus the walkzones anyway. Plenty of other elementary schools split to 2 middle schools so that one isn’t compelling either. You need to present the alternate option that the most people will get behind. To me, that’s immersion to Williamsburg. The only people opposed are immersion people since it gives everyone else their current boundaries or close to them.

Agreed - either (1) immersion to Williamsburg or (2) shifting Swanson planning units instead. I guess a third option is pressing to keep immersion at Gunston but I think that’s a hard case to make due to their overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.

What is Though Exchange? I’ve never heard of that in my years at APS.

Taylor parents have been gathering input here http://www.hammwalkers.org/

Can you post Thought Exchange there?

https://www.apsva.us/engage/thoughtexchange/

The petition is a great step but the Thought Exchange is going directly to APS on a daily basis. Plus it’s shiny and new so therefore loved by Syphax.

So will staff even consider the petition?

Doubtful. The main arguments as presented are walking is good and don’t split Taylor for MS. They already know walking is good but they want to bus the walkzones anyway. Plenty of other elementary schools split to 2 middle schools so that one isn’t compelling either. You need to present the alternate option that the most people will get behind. To me, that’s immersion to Williamsburg. The only people opposed are immersion people since it gives everyone else their current boundaries or close to them.

I don't have a bone in this fight but wouldn't moving immersion to WMS be less disruptive to the entire system because less boundaries would need to be changes, and isn't Kenmore a challenging site to bring more traffic into?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.

What is Though Exchange? I’ve never heard of that in my years at APS.

Taylor parents have been gathering input here http://www.hammwalkers.org/

Can you post Thought Exchange there?

https://www.apsva.us/engage/thoughtexchange/

The petition is a great step but the Thought Exchange is going directly to APS on a daily basis. Plus it’s shiny and new so therefore loved by Syphax.

So will staff even consider the petition?

Doubtful. The main arguments as presented are walking is good and don’t split Taylor for MS. They already know walking is good but they want to bus the walkzones anyway. Plenty of other elementary schools split to 2 middle schools so that one isn’t compelling either. You need to present the alternate option that the most people will get behind. To me, that’s immersion to Williamsburg. The only people opposed are immersion people since it gives everyone else their current boundaries or close to them.

I don't have a bone in this fight but wouldn't moving immersion to WMS be less disruptive to the entire system because less boundaries would need to be changes, and isn't Kenmore a challenging site to bring more traffic into?

Yes. Immersion to Williamsburg is by far the least disruptive solution to everyone except people in the Immersion program. They say moving to Williamsburg would kill the program because of travel time and lack of native Spanish speakers up there. Is that true? Unknown.

I suspect that people who value the program would go anyway and people who were only in it because they were zoned to Gunston anyway might not. Of course, some of those zoned to Gunston anyway might welcome the chance to NOT go to Gunston, so hard to tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.

What is Though Exchange? I’ve never heard of that in my years at APS.

Taylor parents have been gathering input here http://www.hammwalkers.org/

Can you post Thought Exchange there?

https://www.apsva.us/engage/thoughtexchange/

The petition is a great step but the Thought Exchange is going directly to APS on a daily basis. Plus it’s shiny and new so therefore loved by Syphax.

So will staff even consider the petition?

Doubtful. The main arguments as presented are walking is good and don’t split Taylor for MS. They already know walking is good but they want to bus the walkzones anyway. Plenty of other elementary schools split to 2 middle schools so that one isn’t compelling either. You need to present the alternate option that the most people will get behind. To me, that’s immersion to Williamsburg. The only people opposed are immersion people since it gives everyone else their current boundaries or close to them.

I don't have a bone in this fight but wouldn't moving immersion to WMS be less disruptive to the entire system because less boundaries would need to be changes, and isn't Kenmore a challenging site to bring more traffic into?

Yes. Immersion to Williamsburg is by far the least disruptive solution to everyone except people in the Immersion program. They say moving to Williamsburg would kill the program because of travel time and lack of native Spanish speakers up there. Is that true? Unknown.

I suspect that people who value the program would go anyway and people who were only in it because they were zoned to Gunston anyway might not. Of course, some of those zoned to Gunston anyway might welcome the chance to NOT go to Gunston, so hard to tell.

You're guessing and assuming about things new to you, but which much is already known in the system and by many other people. Immersion people (I'm not one) have a point that WMS could harm the program as is (i.e., needing native speakers). Will everyone disappear over night? No. Could Immersion be changed to forget about natives? Sure. But APS veterans know the value of keeping choice schools centrally located as win-win for programs, space use and budget reasons. Immersion currently has extra hurdle of needing natives, so throwing it to the border has even bigger effect. If in a few years time a WMS Immersion program is struggling, APS leaders would be rightfully pilloried for knowingly making it happen...even if they just claim they were listening to people like you who say "well just do it because it's least disruptive to me."

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the whole thing.

The obvious solution is the one proposed in 2015 - put Dorothy Hamm MS at Rosslyn and move HBW back to their old home on Vacation Lane. Then kids who live near Vacation Lane can be bused to Williamsburg like they were in the good old days, or they can be be bused to the fancy new building in Rosslyn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.

What is Though Exchange? I’ve never heard of that in my years at APS.

Taylor parents have been gathering input here http://www.hammwalkers.org/

Can you post Thought Exchange there?

https://www.apsva.us/engage/thoughtexchange/

The petition is a great step but the Thought Exchange is going directly to APS on a daily basis. Plus it’s shiny and new so therefore loved by Syphax.

So will staff even consider the petition?

Doubtful. The main arguments as presented are walking is good and don’t split Taylor for MS. They already know walking is good but they want to bus the walkzones anyway. Plenty of other elementary schools split to 2 middle schools so that one isn’t compelling either. You need to present the alternate option that the most people will get behind. To me, that’s immersion to Williamsburg. The only people opposed are immersion people since it gives everyone else their current boundaries or close to them.

I don't have a bone in this fight but wouldn't moving immersion to WMS be less disruptive to the entire system because less boundaries would need to be changes, and isn't Kenmore a challenging site to bring more traffic into?

Yes. Immersion to Williamsburg is by far the least disruptive solution to everyone except people in the Immersion program. They say moving to Williamsburg would kill the program because of travel time and lack of native Spanish speakers up there. Is that true? Unknown.

I suspect that people who value the program would go anyway and people who were only in it because they were zoned to Gunston anyway might not. Of course, some of those zoned to Gunston anyway might welcome the chance to NOT go to Gunston, so hard to tell.

You're guessing and assuming about things new to you, but which much is already known in the system and by many other people. Immersion people (I'm not one) have a point that WMS could harm the program as is (i.e., needing native speakers). Will everyone disappear over night? No. Could Immersion be changed to forget about natives? Sure. But APS veterans know the value of keeping choice schools centrally located as win-win for programs, space use and budget reasons. Immersion currently has extra hurdle of needing natives, so throwing it to the border has even bigger effect. If in a few years time a WMS Immersion program is struggling, APS leaders would be rightfully pilloried for knowingly making it happen...even if they just claim they were listening to people like you who say "well just do it because it's least disruptive to me."

Look, you’re not going to attract more native speakers by moving the location, the end. They don’t want it, and it’s not because it’s too far away. They just don’t. By MS, I’m not sure that the 50/50 mix is as important anyway, and as we’ve discussed up thread, it’s not like Latinx kids can just jump in, they still have to pass the proficiency tests, and they largely can’t. It’s the WHITE parents in NA who argue that having a more central location would be better for them. Why are we twisting ourselves into pretzels for that? Just move it to WMS and they will be happy, and the white SA parents can decide if the trek is worth it or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thing.

The obvious solution is the one proposed in 2015 - put Dorothy Hamm MS at Rosslyn and move HBW back to their old home on Vacation Lane. Then kids who live near Vacation Lane can be bused to Williamsburg like they were in the good old days, or they can be be bused to the fancy new building in Rosslyn.

Not so obvious. After building/renovations, neither school building is appropriate for the population of the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.

What is Though Exchange? I’ve never heard of that in my years at APS.

Taylor parents have been gathering input here http://www.hammwalkers.org/

Can you post Thought Exchange there?

https://www.apsva.us/engage/thoughtexchange/

The petition is a great step but the Thought Exchange is going directly to APS on a daily basis. Plus it’s shiny and new so therefore loved by Syphax.

So will staff even consider the petition?

Doubtful. The main arguments as presented are walking is good and don’t split Taylor for MS. They already know walking is good but they want to bus the walkzones anyway. Plenty of other elementary schools split to 2 middle schools so that one isn’t compelling either. You need to present the alternate option that the most people will get behind. To me, that’s immersion to Williamsburg. The only people opposed are immersion people since it gives everyone else their current boundaries or close to them.

I don't have a bone in this fight but wouldn't moving immersion to WMS be less disruptive to the entire system because less boundaries would need to be changes, and isn't Kenmore a challenging site to bring more traffic into?

Yes. Immersion to Williamsburg is by far the least disruptive solution to everyone except people in the Immersion program. They say moving to Williamsburg would kill the program because of travel time and lack of native Spanish speakers up there. Is that true? Unknown.

I suspect that people who value the program would go anyway and people who were only in it because they were zoned to Gunston anyway might not. Of course, some of those zoned to Gunston anyway might welcome the chance to NOT go to Gunston, so hard to tell.

You're guessing and assuming about things new to you, but which much is already known in the system and by many other people. Immersion people (I'm not one) have a point that WMS could harm the program as is (i.e., needing native speakers). Will everyone disappear over night? No. Could Immersion be changed to forget about natives? Sure. But APS veterans know the value of keeping choice schools centrally located as win-win for programs, space use and budget reasons. Immersion currently has extra hurdle of needing natives, so throwing it to the border has even bigger effect. If in a few years time a WMS Immersion program is struggling, APS leaders would be rightfully pilloried for knowingly making it happen...even if they just claim they were listening to people like you who say "well just do it because it's least disruptive to me."

Look, you’re not going to attract more native speakers by moving the location, the end. They don’t want it, and it’s not because it’s too far away. They just don’t. By MS, I’m not sure that the 50/50 mix is as important anyway, and as we’ve discussed up thread, it’s not like Latinx kids can just jump in, they still have to pass the proficiency tests, and they largely can’t. It’s the WHITE parents in NA who argue that having a more central location would be better for them. Why are we twisting ourselves into pretzels for that? Just move it to WMS and they will be happy, and the white SA parents can decide if the trek is worth it or not.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.

What is Though Exchange? I’ve never heard of that in my years at APS.

Taylor parents have been gathering input here http://www.hammwalkers.org/

Can you post Thought Exchange there?

https://www.apsva.us/engage/thoughtexchange/

The petition is a great step but the Thought Exchange is going directly to APS on a daily basis. Plus it’s shiny and new so therefore loved by Syphax.

So will staff even consider the petition?

Doubtful. The main arguments as presented are walking is good and don’t split Taylor for MS. They already know walking is good but they want to bus the walkzones anyway. Plenty of other elementary schools split to 2 middle schools so that one isn’t compelling either. You need to present the alternate option that the most people will get behind. To me, that’s immersion to Williamsburg. The only people opposed are immersion people since it gives everyone else their current boundaries or close to them.

I don't have a bone in this fight but wouldn't moving immersion to WMS be less disruptive to the entire system because less boundaries would need to be changes, and isn't Kenmore a challenging site to bring more traffic into?

Yes. Immersion to Williamsburg is by far the least disruptive solution to everyone except people in the Immersion program. They say moving to Williamsburg would kill the program because of travel time and lack of native Spanish speakers up there. Is that true? Unknown.

I suspect that people who value the program would go anyway and people who were only in it because they were zoned to Gunston anyway might not. Of course, some of those zoned to Gunston anyway might welcome the chance to NOT go to Gunston, so hard to tell.

You're guessing and assuming about things new to you, but which much is already known in the system and by many other people. Immersion people (I'm not one) have a point that WMS could harm the program as is (i.e., needing native speakers). Will everyone disappear over night? No. Could Immersion be changed to forget about natives? Sure. But APS veterans know the value of keeping choice schools centrally located as win-win for programs, space use and budget reasons. Immersion currently has extra hurdle of needing natives, so throwing it to the border has even bigger effect. If in a few years time a WMS Immersion program is struggling, APS leaders would be rightfully pilloried for knowingly making it happen...even if they just claim they were listening to people like you who say "well just do it because it's least disruptive to me."

Look, you’re not going to attract more native speakers by moving the location, the end. They don’t want it, and it’s not because it’s too far away. They just don’t. By MS, I’m not sure that the 50/50 mix is as important anyway, and as we’ve discussed up thread, it’s not like Latinx kids can just jump in, they still have to pass the proficiency tests, and they largely can’t. It’s the WHITE parents in NA who argue that having a more central location would be better for them. Why are we twisting ourselves into pretzels for that? Just move it to WMS and they will be happy, and the white SA parents can decide if the trek is worth it or not.

The criteria here is about moving the program for the benefit of the system and NOT harming the program. That is completely different from your point about ATTRACT/grow/boost Immersion. If the latter were the lead consideration we'd be talking about building a K-8 academy at Walter Reed Community Center. Again, if APS made a move that reasonable people warned would knowingly harm a program, and then said program is harmed, they'd rightfully be criticized. Maybe even sued. Making white NA parents happy or deciding it's ok to give the shaft to SA families is also worthily of same response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thing.

The obvious solution is the one proposed in 2015 - put Dorothy Hamm MS at Rosslyn and move HBW back to their old home on Vacation Lane. Then kids who live near Vacation Lane can be bused to Williamsburg like they were in the good old days, or they can be be bused to the fancy new building in Rosslyn.

Not so obvious. After building/renovations, neither school building is appropriate for the population of the other.

Please explain. HBW has middle schoolers. Are Dorothy Hamm middle schoolers physically different from HBW middleschoolers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thing.

The obvious solution is the one proposed in 2015 - put Dorothy Hamm MS at Rosslyn and move HBW back to their old home on Vacation Lane. Then kids who live near Vacation Lane can be bused to Williamsburg like they were in the good old days, or they can be be bused to the fancy new building in Rosslyn.

Not so obvious. After building/renovations, neither school building is appropriate for the population of the other.

Please explain. HBW has middle schoolers. Are Dorothy Hamm middle schoolers physically different from HBW middleschoolers?

DHMS has a capacity of 1100 students but HBW parents have vapors if you hint at increasing above their 700 butts in seats, of which only 300 are middle school BTW.

But PP was just acting in bad faith, because in that scenario you bus even more students which wastes everyone’s time and money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thing.

The obvious solution is the one proposed in 2015 - put Dorothy Hamm MS at Rosslyn and move HBW back to their old home on Vacation Lane. Then kids who live near Vacation Lane can be bused to Williamsburg like they were in the good old days, or they can be be bused to the fancy new building in Rosslyn.

Not so obvious. After building/renovations, neither school building is appropriate for the population of the other.

Please explain. HBW has middle schoolers. Are Dorothy Hamm middle schoolers physically different from HBW middleschoolers?

DHMS has a capacity of 1100 students but HBW parents have vapors if you hint at increasing above their 700 butts in seats, of which only 300 are middle school BTW.

But PP was just acting in bad faith, because in that scenario you bus even more students which wastes everyone’s time and money.

I’m the pp who said a school building swap wouldn’t work – not because of HB parents getting twitchy, but because the heights building was constructed for the smaller population. But there are also no fields, locker rooms, etc. Given that people totally lost it over the idea that a 4th HS could possibly be built without a pool, I can’t imagine arlington parents being okay with a neighborhood middle school without fields.

I know the go-to answer is always “get rid of HB”, but sometimes it doesn’t make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thing.

The obvious solution is the one proposed in 2015 - put Dorothy Hamm MS at Rosslyn and move HBW back to their old home on Vacation Lane. Then kids who live near Vacation Lane can be bused to Williamsburg like they were in the good old days, or they can be be bused to the fancy new building in Rosslyn.

Not so obvious. After building/renovations, neither school building is appropriate for the population of the other.

Please explain. HBW has middle schoolers. Are Dorothy Hamm middle schoolers physically different from HBW middleschoolers?

DHMS has a capacity of 1100 students but HBW parents have vapors if you hint at increasing above their 700 butts in seats, of which only 300 are middle school BTW.

But PP was just acting in bad faith, because in that scenario you bus even more students which wastes everyone’s time and money.

I’m the pp who said a school building swap wouldn’t work – not because of HB parents getting twitchy, but because the heights building was constructed for the smaller population. But there are also no fields, locker rooms, etc. Given that people totally lost it over the idea that a 4th HS could possibly be built without a pool, I can’t imagine arlington parents being okay with a neighborhood middle school without fields.

I know the go-to answer is always “get rid of HB”, but sometimes it doesn’t make sense.

Yeah, the Heights site should have been an elementary school, but as a 1100 student middle school it would be especially awful.

[Anonymous]

Hopefully the sunlight will expose the idiocy of increasing the bused population by 40% rather than just situating immersion where there is plenty of space.

https://www.arlnow.com/2023/08/10/aps-proposal-to-change-middle-school-boundaries-already-has-some-opposition/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thing.

The obvious solution is the one proposed in 2015 - put Dorothy Hamm MS at Rosslyn and move HBW back to their old home on Vacation Lane. Then kids who live near Vacation Lane can be bused to Williamsburg like they were in the good old days, or they can be be bused to the fancy new building in Rosslyn.

They built out the Heights specifically for the Shriver program and now you just want to undo that? No. That's entirely inequitable.

Signed,

parent of a student with a disability