APS DHMS walk zone nuclear option

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

+1

Seems like there is a poster who doesn't have kids in APS.

I’m aware of the allocation. It’s hardly a State secret.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

+1

Seems like there is a poster who doesn't have kids in APS.

I’m aware of the allocation. It’s hardly a State secret.

Now, you are aware. And you’re not an APS parent.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

+1

Seems like there is a poster who doesn't have kids in APS.

I’m aware of the allocation. It’s hardly a State secret.

Now, you are aware. And you’re not an APS parent.

The only uninformed person is you because you still seem unaware that HBW is out of step with the demographics of all of APS including the free and reduced lunch population. Let me guess, you’re a parent there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

+1

Seems like there is a poster who doesn't have kids in APS.

You mean like some of the school board members?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.

Then hopefully their parents wouldn’t allow them to opt in to virtual (I personally don’t believe it will be forced upon anyone). But if APS doesn’t have enough physical seats and is asked to do more with less, I’m ok with the potential negative consequence of night and virtual school.

I was responding to the poster saying virtual was fine because some kids will disengage even if in person. I think kids who can be coaxed to participate (which I'd argue is all kids) have a better chance at staying involved in person. But I am curious what negative consequences of night and virtual school you are comfortable with for 14-18 year olds.

Yes, I’m that poster. In person is best for most kids but I’ve come to realize APS probably isn’t heading in that direction. This is becoming a large urban school district where space is at a premium. I’m fine if some families choose night or virtual school and then the kids aren’t as engaged as they would be in person. If it’s available, that’s their choice. And who am I to say what the best outcome is or what factors they are weighing in this choice. People are different and I’m ok with that. Test scores aren’t everything.

DP. I've subscribed to this mantra, too. But I'm starting to change my mind. They may not be "everything" but they are a primary importance. Wherever this is the reigning attitude - that socioemotional and basic needs and feeling safe and everybody has to perform the same in order for there to be equity approach has eroded actual education and knowledge acquisition overall. We don't have to dig deep down into each individual child's psyche to meet our students needs. Students need structure, discipline, support, and high expectations from their adult authority figures. They thrive under firm quality standards and expectations. There are always exceptions; but we're losing more the way we're going.

If you don’t get that children’s social emotional and basic needs and feeling safe need to be met before kids can learn, I don’t know how to explain it to you.

I don't know how to get you to see my point that there is not enough focus on the learning. We shouldn't be sitting around waiting until every kid's every basic and emotional need is met before giving students who are ready the academics. The focus is skewed to the point that nobody can move forward until everyone is at the starting line. We can focus on both simultaneously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

Yes I’m aware. And when I look at the demographics, I ask myself why it looks so skewed compared to the demographics of the student population as a whole. I would think most people would think that deserves a little thought. What do you make of it?

It's skewed because the demographics of the elementary schools are skewed. When half the schools are vast majority middle class white, the seats they fill are going to reflect that. It is also skewed because the under-represented groups you're alluding to DON'T APPLY AND DON'T WANT TO GO! Carlin Springs has very very very few kids who actually go to HB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

Yes I’m aware. And when I look at the demographics, I ask myself why it looks so skewed compared to the demographics of the student population as a whole. I would think most people would think that deserves a little thought. What do you make of it?

It's skewed because the demographics of the elementary schools are skewed. When half the schools are vast majority middle class white, the seats they fill are going to reflect that. It is also skewed because the under-represented groups you're alluding to DON'T APPLY AND DON'T WANT TO GO! Carlin Springs has very very very few kids who actually go to HB.

If you look at the lottery data, Carlin Springs fills all their allotted seats and has a waitlist- smaller than many other schools, but it’s a waitlist none the less. Are you saying none of these kids actually enroll?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

Yes I’m aware. And when I look at the demographics, I ask myself why it looks so skewed compared to the demographics of the student population as a whole. I would think most people would think that deserves a little thought. What do you make of it?

It's skewed because the demographics of the elementary schools are skewed. When half the schools are vast majority middle class white, the seats they fill are going to reflect that. It is also skewed because the under-represented groups you're alluding to DON'T APPLY AND DON'T WANT TO GO! Carlin Springs has very very very few kids who actually go to HB.

Haha you think these white kids are middle class? I think you need a reality check.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

+1

Seems like there is a poster who doesn't have kids in APS.

I’m aware of the allocation. It’s hardly a State secret.

Now, you are aware. And you’re not an APS parent.

The only uninformed person is you because you still seem unaware that HBW is out of step with the demographics of all of APS including the free and reduced lunch population. Let me guess, you’re a parent there.

Yes, I’m aware of demographics. I’m fine getting rid of HB. It causes too much headaches.

Why are you an external agitator? What is your goal here?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.

Then hopefully their parents wouldn’t allow them to opt in to virtual (I personally don’t believe it will be forced upon anyone). But if APS doesn’t have enough physical seats and is asked to do more with less, I’m ok with the potential negative consequence of night and virtual school.

I was responding to the poster saying virtual was fine because some kids will disengage even if in person. I think kids who can be coaxed to participate (which I'd argue is all kids) have a better chance at staying involved in person. But I am curious what negative consequences of night and virtual school you are comfortable with for 14-18 year olds.

Yes, I’m that poster. In person is best for most kids but I’ve come to realize APS probably isn’t heading in that direction. This is becoming a large urban school district where space is at a premium. I’m fine if some families choose night or virtual school and then the kids aren’t as engaged as they would be in person. If it’s available, that’s their choice. And who am I to say what the best outcome is or what factors they are weighing in this choice. People are different and I’m ok with that. Test scores aren’t everything.

DP. I've subscribed to this mantra, too. But I'm starting to change my mind. They may not be "everything" but they are a primary importance. Wherever this is the reigning attitude - that socioemotional and basic needs and feeling safe and everybody has to perform the same in order for there to be equity approach has eroded actual education and knowledge acquisition overall. We don't have to dig deep down into each individual child's psyche to meet our students needs. Students need structure, discipline, support, and high expectations from their adult authority figures. They thrive under firm quality standards and expectations. There are always exceptions; but we're losing more the way we're going.

If you don’t get that children’s social emotional and basic needs and feeling safe need to be met before kids can learn, I don’t know how to explain it to you.

I don't know how to get you to see my point that there is not enough focus on the learning. We shouldn't be sitting around waiting until every kid's every basic and emotional need is met before giving students who are ready the academics. The focus is skewed to the point that nobody can move forward until everyone is at the starting line. We can focus on both simultaneously.

DP. Could you give an example of this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.

What is Though Exchange? I’ve never heard of that in my years at APS.

Taylor parents have been gathering input here http://www.hammwalkers.org/

Can you post Thought Exchange there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.

What is Though Exchange? I’ve never heard of that in my years at APS.

Taylor parents have been gathering input here http://www.hammwalkers.org/

Can you post Thought Exchange there?

https://www.apsva.us/engage/thoughtexchange/

The petition is a great step but the Thought Exchange is going directly to APS on a daily basis. Plus it’s shiny and new so therefore loved by Syphax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

+1

Seems like there is a poster who doesn't have kids in APS.

I’m aware of the allocation. It’s hardly a State secret.

Now, you are aware. And you’re not an APS parent.

The only uninformed person is you because you still seem unaware that HBW is out of step with the demographics of all of APS including the free and reduced lunch population. Let me guess, you’re a parent there.

Yes, I’m aware of demographics. I’m fine getting rid of HB. It causes too much headaches.

Why are you an external agitator? What is your goal here?

HB is a great program and it doesn't cause any headaches, other than to the people who like to gripe about it, probably because they didn't win the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.

What is Though Exchange? I’ve never heard of that in my years at APS.

Taylor parents have been gathering input here http://www.hammwalkers.org/

Can you post Thought Exchange there?

https://www.apsva.us/engage/thoughtexchange/

The petition is a great step but the Thought Exchange is going directly to APS on a daily basis. Plus it’s shiny and new so therefore loved by Syphax.

So will staff even consider the petition?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.

What is Though Exchange? I’ve never heard of that in my years at APS.

Taylor parents have been gathering input here http://www.hammwalkers.org/

Can you post Thought Exchange there?

https://www.apsva.us/engage/thoughtexchange/

The petition is a great step but the Thought Exchange is going directly to APS on a daily basis. Plus it’s shiny and new so therefore loved by Syphax.

So will staff even consider the petition?

Doubtful. The main arguments as presented are walking is good and don’t split Taylor for MS. They already know walking is good but they want to bus the walkzones anyway. Plenty of other elementary schools split to 2 middle schools so that one isn’t compelling either. You need to present the alternate option that the most people will get behind. To me, that’s immersion to Williamsburg. The only people opposed are immersion people since it gives everyone else their current boundaries or close to them.