New observation: Men now want high earning women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s all equality and fun and games till the children come. I was in a neighborhood group text where the moms were stressing about how to get hot cocoa to their schools and someone pointed out no dad has ever stressed about that. And this is a wealthy liberal enclave.

“ how to get hot cocoa to their schools”: what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

That is the problem. Men now want it all. They want a high earner for a wife AND they still expect the wife to do all of this other work. This is why I am divorced. I do not think marriage offers any benefit. It offered me zero.

+1 back to those physician moms. Not only are they working less than their physician spouses to care for the children, they are harried off their feet trying to be super mom volunteering in school while working their jobs. i see surgeon mom in school but never surgeon dad. ER mom cuts down to three days a week at her job while ER dad takes on two jobs and travel. so now they are all burdened with work school and childcare. i rather be mansion mom who lunches and plays tennis, life seems easier.

+1 I tell my daughters not to go into medicine. The education costs are astronomical, the average salaries aren't high these days, there's little WFH flexibility, and you're going a million miles per hour during your shift. The two female doctors who I know really well have it rough. Both of them had to drop down to part time just to keep their families afloat. Now they don't earn much. One of them has a husband who does help with the kids, but he's not a high earner. He has family money though so they're doing fine. The other has a physician spouse who concentrates on his career. The wife is a great mother but she handles the house and kid stuff and she's just going, going, going all day every day.

Kind of a sidebar, but I also warn my girls not to go into low-paying fields. The whole spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 11+ years of education to earn less than they could with an easy WFH job is for the trust fund set. Same with many nonprofit jobs. Those are for the trust fund kids or people with wealthy spouses. Prestigious with low pay isn't for most of us.

Actually don’t be too down on medicine for your daughters. I have noticed that in other high flying lucrative professions such as law or banking or consulting many women quit after children, especially if they have high income husbands. The doctors return however. I have thought about it and I think it’s because medicine can be quite flexible depending on the specialty. Like I see the female doctors working less days. The paying your dues and insane hours happen more in your youth, but once you become an attending it’s easier to control hours. Also asides from continuing education it seems easier for doctors to return to the work force after taking time off vs other professions where you become obsolete if you don’t keep one foot in. The girl just has to be smart about the speciality, there is a reason why most dermatologists are women.

Exactly! Specialty is what matters most in medicine. My brother is a dermatologist and has a great quality of life.

One doesn’t just say “I want derm” and it happens.

It is one of the hardest specialities to match to.

No guaruntee that you land derm during med school for res matching….and then what?

If derm is what makes or breaks your desire To be a doc, it’s not something you should bank on

Family practice and pediatrics is pretty flexible too. All the prestigious careers are difficult. But so far medicine seems easier for women to return to than the others.

I don't know where you're getting your information. The burnout is real in primary care. With all of the notes, messages, and paperwork even if you're technically PT you're still clocking FT hours. I don't want to detail the thread, but want to paint a realistic picture of modern medicine.

Every job sucks. Investment banking sucks. Consulting sucks. Big Law sucks. I am sure medicine sucks too. But the thing is what sucks the least and still allow for women to return and still have a decent paycheck. You can burn out in primary care, step out for a few years and come back more easily. Yes maybe I am a little too idealistic about medicine. I see a lot of other burnt out professions women that never step back, but somehow the doctors return. Is there another explanation for this? I am all ears.

It does. I'm just saying don't glamorize medicine. The statistics for women working full-time after residency are abysmal. Yes, you can find a peds job 2 days a week, but how much do you think that pays? 80K. In that case, marry the woman because you love her not for being a cash cow. The majority will not be working FT.

I guess a prestigious job where you can work PT and then go back to it when the kids are older is a win in my book. You can’t do that in other jobs. And even if it pays low when you work PT it’s not forever and it’s a backup. But the part time nature for many medicine moms is also proof that those high income men don’t care about their spouses earning potential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s all equality and fun and games till the children come. I was in a neighborhood group text where the moms were stressing about how to get hot cocoa to their schools and someone pointed out no dad has ever stressed about that. And this is a wealthy liberal enclave.

“ how to get hot cocoa to their schools”: what?

The ask in many of the schools both public and private around my neighborhood last week was to bring hot cocoa in bulk in for the holidays. There was many strategizing of tips from these moms both working and SAHM where to buy this since Starbucks was no longer selling in bulk, borrowing of beverage dispensers, tips of how to warm milk in a slow cooker to ladle hot cocoa for the students. Then someone pointed out no dad has probably stressed about bulk hot cocoa in the holiday season, and you know what, they are probably right.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

That is the problem. Men now want it all. They want a high earner for a wife AND they still expect the wife to do all of this other work. This is why I am divorced. I do not think marriage offers any benefit. It offered me zero.

+1 back to those physician moms. Not only are they working less than their physician spouses to care for the children, they are harried off their feet trying to be super mom volunteering in school while working their jobs. i see surgeon mom in school but never surgeon dad. ER mom cuts down to three days a week at her job while ER dad takes on two jobs and travel. so now they are all burdened with work school and childcare. i rather be mansion mom who lunches and plays tennis, life seems easier.

+1 I tell my daughters not to go into medicine. The education costs are astronomical, the average salaries aren't high these days, there's little WFH flexibility, and you're going a million miles per hour during your shift. The two female doctors who I know really well have it rough. Both of them had to drop down to part time just to keep their families afloat. Now they don't earn much. One of them has a husband who does help with the kids, but he's not a high earner. He has family money though so they're doing fine. The other has a physician spouse who concentrates on his career. The wife is a great mother but she handles the house and kid stuff and she's just going, going, going all day every day.

Kind of a sidebar, but I also warn my girls not to go into low-paying fields. The whole spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 11+ years of education to earn less than they could with an easy WFH job is for the trust fund set. Same with many nonprofit jobs. Those are for the trust fund kids or people with wealthy spouses. Prestigious with low pay isn't for most of us.

Actually don’t be too down on medicine for your daughters. I have noticed that in other high flying lucrative professions such as law or banking or consulting many women quit after children, especially if they have high income husbands. The doctors return however. I have thought about it and I think it’s because medicine can be quite flexible depending on the specialty. Like I see the female doctors working less days. The paying your dues and insane hours happen more in your youth, but once you become an attending it’s easier to control hours. Also asides from continuing education it seems easier for doctors to return to the work force after taking time off vs other professions where you become obsolete if you don’t keep one foot in. The girl just has to be smart about the speciality, there is a reason why most dermatologists are women.

Exactly! Specialty is what matters most in medicine. My brother is a dermatologist and has a great quality of life.

One doesn’t just say “I want derm” and it happens.

It is one of the hardest specialities to match to.

No guaruntee that you land derm during med school for res matching….and then what?

If derm is what makes or breaks your desire To be a doc, it’s not something you should bank on

Family practice and pediatrics is pretty flexible too. All the prestigious careers are difficult. But so far medicine seems easier for women to return to than the others.

I don't know where you're getting your information. The burnout is real in primary care. With all of the notes, messages, and paperwork even if you're technically PT you're still clocking FT hours. I don't want to detail the thread, but want to paint a realistic picture of modern medicine.

Every job sucks. Investment banking sucks. Consulting sucks. Big Law sucks. I am sure medicine sucks too. But the thing is what sucks the least and still allow for women to return and still have a decent paycheck. You can burn out in primary care, step out for a few years and come back more easily. Yes maybe I am a little too idealistic about medicine. I see a lot of other burnt out professions women that never step back, but somehow the doctors return. Is there another explanation for this? I am all ears.

It does. I'm just saying don't glamorize medicine. The statistics for women working full-time after residency are abysmal. Yes, you can find a peds job 2 days a week, but how much do you think that pays? 80K. In that case, marry the woman because you love her not for being a cash cow. The majority will not be working FT.

I guess a prestigious job where you can work PT and then go back to it when the kids are older is a win in my book. You can’t do that in other jobs. And even if it pays low when you work PT it’s not forever and it’s a backup. But the part time nature for many medicine moms is also proof that those high income men don’t care about their spouses earning potential.

Also the sting to your ego if you do return to the corporate world when you were highly educated and accomplished and now lowly ranking reporting to people much younger than you really hurts. If you are a doctor you are a doctor even if you go back a few years later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

That is the problem. Men now want it all. They want a high earner for a wife AND they still expect the wife to do all of this other work. This is why I am divorced. I do not think marriage offers any benefit. It offered me zero.

+1 back to those physician moms. Not only are they working less than their physician spouses to care for the children, they are harried off their feet trying to be super mom volunteering in school while working their jobs. i see surgeon mom in school but never surgeon dad. ER mom cuts down to three days a week at her job while ER dad takes on two jobs and travel. so now they are all burdened with work school and childcare. i rather be mansion mom who lunches and plays tennis, life seems easier.

+1 I tell my daughters not to go into medicine. The education costs are astronomical, the average salaries aren't high these days, there's little WFH flexibility, and you're going a million miles per hour during your shift. The two female doctors who I know really well have it rough. Both of them had to drop down to part time just to keep their families afloat. Now they don't earn much. One of them has a husband who does help with the kids, but he's not a high earner. He has family money though so they're doing fine. The other has a physician spouse who concentrates on his career. The wife is a great mother but she handles the house and kid stuff and she's just going, going, going all day every day.

Kind of a sidebar, but I also warn my girls not to go into low-paying fields. The whole spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 11+ years of education to earn less than they could with an easy WFH job is for the trust fund set. Same with many nonprofit jobs. Those are for the trust fund kids or people with wealthy spouses. Prestigious with low pay isn't for most of us.

Actually don’t be too down on medicine for your daughters. I have noticed that in other high flying lucrative professions such as law or banking or consulting many women quit after children, especially if they have high income husbands. The doctors return however. I have thought about it and I think it’s because medicine can be quite flexible depending on the specialty. Like I see the female doctors working less days. The paying your dues and insane hours happen more in your youth, but once you become an attending it’s easier to control hours. Also asides from continuing education it seems easier for doctors to return to the work force after taking time off vs other professions where you become obsolete if you don’t keep one foot in. The girl just has to be smart about the speciality, there is a reason why most dermatologists are women.

Exactly! Specialty is what matters most in medicine. My brother is a dermatologist and has a great quality of life.

One doesn’t just say “I want derm” and it happens.

It is one of the hardest specialities to match to.

No guaruntee that you land derm during med school for res matching….and then what?

If derm is what makes or breaks your desire To be a doc, it’s not something you should bank on

Family practice and pediatrics is pretty flexible too. All the prestigious careers are difficult. But so far medicine seems easier for women to return to than the others.

I don't know where you're getting your information. The burnout is real in primary care. With all of the notes, messages, and paperwork even if you're technically PT you're still clocking FT hours. I don't want to detail the thread, but want to paint a realistic picture of modern medicine.

Every job sucks. Investment banking sucks. Consulting sucks. Big Law sucks. I am sure medicine sucks too. But the thing is what sucks the least and still allow for women to return and still have a decent paycheck. You can burn out in primary care, step out for a few years and come back more easily. Yes maybe I am a little too idealistic about medicine. I see a lot of other burnt out professions women that never step back, but somehow the doctors return. Is there another explanation for this? I am all ears.

It does. I'm just saying don't glamorize medicine. The statistics for women working full-time after residency are abysmal. Yes, you can find a peds job 2 days a week, but how much do you think that pays? 80K. In that case, marry the woman because you love her not for being a cash cow. The majority will not be working FT.

80k part time is an excellent gig and not bad money for the wife’s misc expenditures . I bet many husbands would not mind

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

+1000. And add to that the emotional labor of maintaining and nurturing relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

That is the problem. Men now want it all. They want a high earner for a wife AND they still expect the wife to do all of this other work. This is why I am divorced. I do not think marriage offers any benefit. It offered me zero.

+1 back to those physician moms. Not only are they working less than their physician spouses to care for the children, they are harried off their feet trying to be super mom volunteering in school while working their jobs. i see surgeon mom in school but never surgeon dad. ER mom cuts down to three days a week at her job while ER dad takes on two jobs and travel. so now they are all burdened with work school and childcare. i rather be mansion mom who lunches and plays tennis, life seems easier.

+1 I tell my daughters not to go into medicine. The education costs are astronomical, the average salaries aren't high these days, there's little WFH flexibility, and you're going a million miles per hour during your shift. The two female doctors who I know really well have it rough. Both of them had to drop down to part time just to keep their families afloat. Now they don't earn much. One of them has a husband who does help with the kids, but he's not a high earner. He has family money though so they're doing fine. The other has a physician spouse who concentrates on his career. The wife is a great mother but she handles the house and kid stuff and she's just going, going, going all day every day.

Kind of a sidebar, but I also warn my girls not to go into low-paying fields. The whole spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 11+ years of education to earn less than they could with an easy WFH job is for the trust fund set. Same with many nonprofit jobs. Those are for the trust fund kids or people with wealthy spouses. Prestigious with low pay isn't for most of us.

Actually don’t be too down on medicine for your daughters. I have noticed that in other high flying lucrative professions such as law or banking or consulting many women quit after children, especially if they have high income husbands. The doctors return however. I have thought about it and I think it’s because medicine can be quite flexible depending on the specialty. Like I see the female doctors working less days. The paying your dues and insane hours happen more in your youth, but once you become an attending it’s easier to control hours. Also asides from continuing education it seems easier for doctors to return to the work force after taking time off vs other professions where you become obsolete if you don’t keep one foot in. The girl just has to be smart about the speciality, there is a reason why most dermatologists are women.

Exactly! Specialty is what matters most in medicine. My brother is a dermatologist and has a great quality of life.

One doesn’t just say “I want derm” and it happens.

It is one of the hardest specialities to match to.

No guaruntee that you land derm during med school for res matching….and then what?

If derm is what makes or breaks your desire To be a doc, it’s not something you should bank on

Family practice and pediatrics is pretty flexible too. All the prestigious careers are difficult. But so far medicine seems easier for women to return to than the others.

I don't know where you're getting your information. The burnout is real in primary care. With all of the notes, messages, and paperwork even if you're technically PT you're still clocking FT hours. I don't want to detail the thread, but want to paint a realistic picture of modern medicine.

Every job sucks. Investment banking sucks. Consulting sucks. Big Law sucks. I am sure medicine sucks too. But the thing is what sucks the least and still allow for women to return and still have a decent paycheck. You can burn out in primary care, step out for a few years and come back more easily. Yes maybe I am a little too idealistic about medicine. I see a lot of other burnt out professions women that never step back, but somehow the doctors return. Is there another explanation for this? I am all ears.

It does. I'm just saying don't glamorize medicine. The statistics for women working full-time after residency are abysmal. Yes, you can find a peds job 2 days a week, but how much do you think that pays? 80K. In that case, marry the woman because you love her not for being a cash cow. The majority will not be working FT.

80k for two days a week is mad good money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

+1000. And add to that the emotional labor of maintaining and nurturing relationships.

Oh gross. This term “emotional labor “ drives me nuts. It’s not labor to have relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've noticed with group of friends that men now are interested in high income women w/ high earning potential vs being with a traditional idea of a woman who wants to stay home while they earn the money. Many of my physician female friends are in high demand and all engaged or married to other physicians, engineers, lawyers, etc, despite working tons of hours and not being "available". If you think about it, this allows for more resources and a better lifestyle than a single income household. One can easily afford a nanny and housekeeper with these dual income professional salaries while still saving for retirement, college, traveling, paying private school, etc so this trumps the SAHM/breadwinner paradigm financially. It also protects against the potential swings of the economy. I grew up hearing that men wanted a "hot" wife that was attractive and available with no though to their earning potential. I think this has changed...

Men want very smart highly educated women who make a high income until they decide to stay home. Smart high income men do not want stupid women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

That is the problem. Men now want it all. They want a high earner for a wife AND they still expect the wife to do all of this other work. This is why I am divorced. I do not think marriage offers any benefit. It offered me zero.

+1 back to those physician moms. Not only are they working less than their physician spouses to care for the children, they are harried off their feet trying to be super mom volunteering in school while working their jobs. i see surgeon mom in school but never surgeon dad. ER mom cuts down to three days a week at her job while ER dad takes on two jobs and travel. so now they are all burdened with work school and childcare. i rather be mansion mom who lunches and plays tennis, life seems easier.

+1 I tell my daughters not to go into medicine. The education costs are astronomical, the average salaries aren't high these days, there's little WFH flexibility, and you're going a million miles per hour during your shift. The two female doctors who I know really well have it rough. Both of them had to drop down to part time just to keep their families afloat. Now they don't earn much. One of them has a husband who does help with the kids, but he's not a high earner. He has family money though so they're doing fine. The other has a physician spouse who concentrates on his career. The wife is a great mother but she handles the house and kid stuff and she's just going, going, going all day every day.

Kind of a sidebar, but I also warn my girls not to go into low-paying fields. The whole spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 11+ years of education to earn less than they could with an easy WFH job is for the trust fund set. Same with many nonprofit jobs. Those are for the trust fund kids or people with wealthy spouses. Prestigious with low pay isn't for most of us.

Actually don’t be too down on medicine for your daughters. I have noticed that in other high flying lucrative professions such as law or banking or consulting many women quit after children, especially if they have high income husbands. The doctors return however. I have thought about it and I think it’s because medicine can be quite flexible depending on the specialty. Like I see the female doctors working less days. The paying your dues and insane hours happen more in your youth, but once you become an attending it’s easier to control hours. Also asides from continuing education it seems easier for doctors to return to the work force after taking time off vs other professions where you become obsolete if you don’t keep one foot in. The girl just has to be smart about the speciality, there is a reason why most dermatologists are women.

Exactly! Specialty is what matters most in medicine. My brother is a dermatologist and has a great quality of life.

One doesn’t just say “I want derm” and it happens.

It is one of the hardest specialities to match to.

No guaruntee that you land derm during med school for res matching….and then what?

If derm is what makes or breaks your desire To be a doc, it’s not something you should bank on

Family practice and pediatrics is pretty flexible too. All the prestigious careers are difficult. But so far medicine seems easier for women to return to than the others.

I don't know where you're getting your information. The burnout is real in primary care. With all of the notes, messages, and paperwork even if you're technically PT you're still clocking FT hours. I don't want to detail the thread, but want to paint a realistic picture of modern medicine.

Every job sucks. Investment banking sucks. Consulting sucks. Big Law sucks. I am sure medicine sucks too. But the thing is what sucks the least and still allow for women to return and still have a decent paycheck. You can burn out in primary care, step out for a few years and come back more easily. Yes maybe I am a little too idealistic about medicine. I see a lot of other burnt out professions women that never step back, but somehow the doctors return. Is there another explanation for this? I am all ears.

It does. I'm just saying don't glamorize medicine. The statistics for women working full-time after residency are abysmal. Yes, you can find a peds job 2 days a week, but how much do you think that pays? 80K. In that case, marry the woman because you love her not for being a cash cow. The majority will not be working FT.

I guess a prestigious job where you can work PT and then go back to it when the kids are older is a win in my book. You can’t do that in other jobs. And even if it pays low when you work PT it’s not forever and it’s a backup. But the part time nature for many medicine moms is also proof that those high income men don’t care about their spouses earning potential.

You are totally wrong, the statistics are not at all abysmal. Out of my entire medical school class only one woman worked part time after residency, and she was married to a surgeon and was from a very traditional Asian family.

[Anonymous]

Men want very smart highly educated women who make a high income until they decide to stay home.

Nope. Just smart enough, educated enough. And fun and pretty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

That is the problem. Men now want it all. They want a high earner for a wife AND they still expect the wife to do all of this other work. This is why I am divorced. I do not think marriage offers any benefit. It offered me zero.

+1 back to those physician moms. Not only are they working less than their physician spouses to care for the children, they are harried off their feet trying to be super mom volunteering in school while working their jobs. i see surgeon mom in school but never surgeon dad. ER mom cuts down to three days a week at her job while ER dad takes on two jobs and travel. so now they are all burdened with work school and childcare. i rather be mansion mom who lunches and plays tennis, life seems easier.

+1 I tell my daughters not to go into medicine. The education costs are astronomical, the average salaries aren't high these days, there's little WFH flexibility, and you're going a million miles per hour during your shift. The two female doctors who I know really well have it rough. Both of them had to drop down to part time just to keep their families afloat. Now they don't earn much. One of them has a husband who does help with the kids, but he's not a high earner. He has family money though so they're doing fine. The other has a physician spouse who concentrates on his career. The wife is a great mother but she handles the house and kid stuff and she's just going, going, going all day every day.

Kind of a sidebar, but I also warn my girls not to go into low-paying fields. The whole spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 11+ years of education to earn less than they could with an easy WFH job is for the trust fund set. Same with many nonprofit jobs. Those are for the trust fund kids or people with wealthy spouses. Prestigious with low pay isn't for most of us.

Actually don’t be too down on medicine for your daughters. I have noticed that in other high flying lucrative professions such as law or banking or consulting many women quit after children, especially if they have high income husbands. The doctors return however. I have thought about it and I think it’s because medicine can be quite flexible depending on the specialty. Like I see the female doctors working less days. The paying your dues and insane hours happen more in your youth, but once you become an attending it’s easier to control hours. Also asides from continuing education it seems easier for doctors to return to the work force after taking time off vs other professions where you become obsolete if you don’t keep one foot in. The girl just has to be smart about the speciality, there is a reason why most dermatologists are women.

Exactly! Specialty is what matters most in medicine. My brother is a dermatologist and has a great quality of life.

One doesn’t just say “I want derm” and it happens.

It is one of the hardest specialities to match to.

No guaruntee that you land derm during med school for res matching….and then what?

If derm is what makes or breaks your desire To be a doc, it’s not something you should bank on

Family practice and pediatrics is pretty flexible too. All the prestigious careers are difficult. But so far medicine seems easier for women to return to than the others.

I don't know where you're getting your information. The burnout is real in primary care. With all of the notes, messages, and paperwork even if you're technically PT you're still clocking FT hours. I don't want to detail the thread, but want to paint a realistic picture of modern medicine.

Every job sucks. Investment banking sucks. Consulting sucks. Big Law sucks. I am sure medicine sucks too. But the thing is what sucks the least and still allow for women to return and still have a decent paycheck. You can burn out in primary care, step out for a few years and come back more easily. Yes maybe I am a little too idealistic about medicine. I see a lot of other burnt out professions women that never step back, but somehow the doctors return. Is there another explanation for this? I am all ears.

It does. I'm just saying don't glamorize medicine. The statistics for women working full-time after residency are abysmal. Yes, you can find a peds job 2 days a week, but how much do you think that pays? 80K. In that case, marry the woman because you love her not for being a cash cow. The majority will not be working FT.

80k for two days a week is mad good money.

This is just not true. Most do work FT. And the better the medical school the more likely this is.

[Anonymous]

I can’t believe no one has brought up the idea that men want highly compensated women so they don’t have to pay alimony and child support in the event of a divorce. It’s a huge reason men want women who work. Be very careful when gauging the reasons he claims to want a woman who works.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

That is the problem. Men now want it all. They want a high earner for a wife AND they still expect the wife to do all of this other work. This is why I am divorced. I do not think marriage offers any benefit. It offered me zero.

+1 back to those physician moms. Not only are they working less than their physician spouses to care for the children, they are harried off their feet trying to be super mom volunteering in school while working their jobs. i see surgeon mom in school but never surgeon dad. ER mom cuts down to three days a week at her job while ER dad takes on two jobs and travel. so now they are all burdened with work school and childcare. i rather be mansion mom who lunches and plays tennis, life seems easier.

+1 I tell my daughters not to go into medicine. The education costs are astronomical, the average salaries aren't high these days, there's little WFH flexibility, and you're going a million miles per hour during your shift. The two female doctors who I know really well have it rough. Both of them had to drop down to part time just to keep their families afloat. Now they don't earn much. One of them has a husband who does help with the kids, but he's not a high earner. He has family money though so they're doing fine. The other has a physician spouse who concentrates on his career. The wife is a great mother but she handles the house and kid stuff and she's just going, going, going all day every day.

Kind of a sidebar, but I also warn my girls not to go into low-paying fields. The whole spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 11+ years of education to earn less than they could with an easy WFH job is for the trust fund set. Same with many nonprofit jobs. Those are for the trust fund kids or people with wealthy spouses. Prestigious with low pay isn't for most of us.

Actually don’t be too down on medicine for your daughters. I have noticed that in other high flying lucrative professions such as law or banking or consulting many women quit after children, especially if they have high income husbands. The doctors return however. I have thought about it and I think it’s because medicine can be quite flexible depending on the specialty. Like I see the female doctors working less days. The paying your dues and insane hours happen more in your youth, but once you become an attending it’s easier to control hours. Also asides from continuing education it seems easier for doctors to return to the work force after taking time off vs other professions where you become obsolete if you don’t keep one foot in. The girl just has to be smart about the speciality, there is a reason why most dermatologists are women.

Exactly! Specialty is what matters most in medicine. My brother is a dermatologist and has a great quality of life.

One doesn’t just say “I want derm” and it happens.

It is one of the hardest specialities to match to.

No guaruntee that you land derm during med school for res matching….and then what?

If derm is what makes or breaks your desire To be a doc, it’s not something you should bank on

Family practice and pediatrics is pretty flexible too. All the prestigious careers are difficult. But so far medicine seems easier for women to return to than the others.

I don't know where you're getting your information. The burnout is real in primary care. With all of the notes, messages, and paperwork even if you're technically PT you're still clocking FT hours. I don't want to detail the thread, but want to paint a realistic picture of modern medicine.

Every job sucks. Investment banking sucks. Consulting sucks. Big Law sucks. I am sure medicine sucks too. But the thing is what sucks the least and still allow for women to return and still have a decent paycheck. You can burn out in primary care, step out for a few years and come back more easily. Yes maybe I am a little too idealistic about medicine. I see a lot of other burnt out professions women that never step back, but somehow the doctors return. Is there another explanation for this? I am all ears.

It does. I'm just saying don't glamorize medicine. The statistics for women working full-time after residency are abysmal. Yes, you can find a peds job 2 days a week, but how much do you think that pays? 80K. In that case, marry the woman because you love her not for being a cash cow. The majority will not be working FT.

80k for two days a week is mad good money.

This is just not true. Most do work FT. And the better the medical school the more likely this is.

Sure thing.

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/why-women-leave-medicine

Novitsky’s career path away from clinical medicine isn’t an anomaly among young women physicians. According to the University of Michigan’s Intern Health Study, almost 40% of women physicians scale back their medical practice, or leave the profession altogether, early in their careers. The primary reason? Family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Men want very smart highly educated women who make a high income until they decide to stay home.

Nope. Just smart enough, educated enough. And fun and pretty.

+1