New observation: Men now want high earning women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

Many men actually do the majority of the house work, and looking after the kids. This is not new.

Also, it just makes sense to get a nanny for $20 an hour to look after your children while you are at work making much much more and a housekeeper to clean your house for 100 bucks a week. Many women use the argument that they have to take care of the home and the kids as an excuse to not work and capitalize on there early capacity, but they could be making much earn more money and just using daycare.

“Just using daycare”. I wanted to actually be with my children. *I* want to raise them, not outsource that. It’s not always about money. I couldn’t bare leaving them to go to work.

You are not that smart. It’s “bear.”

Maybe she’s a stripper and bares it all for work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

Many men actually do the majority of the house work, and looking after the kids. This is not new.

Also, it just makes sense to get a nanny for $20 an hour to look after your children while you are at work making much much more and a housekeeper to clean your house for 100 bucks a week. Many women use the argument that they have to take care of the home and the kids as an excuse to not work and capitalize on there early capacity, but they could be making much earn more money and just using daycare.

Hahahaha. Where do you live? The cornfields of Iowa?

Yeah 20 is so absurdly low. I pay about 35 an hour, all in with taxes, for childcare. That comes out of my post-tax salary. And daycare for the two kids isn’t that much cheaper

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh, yes. I think this observation has been being made for a while now.

Note that men want high-earning women, but they still often want a woman who earns slightly less, and they want her to deal with all of the childcare, cooking, and housekeeping responsibilities too. So while more men are looking for women who don't want to be SAHMs, more women are looking for men who want a situation that is more fair. I think more women now want to be SAHMs than my generation did.

Yes, men want both. Having high earning wife is great when they don't have kids. Once kids come, they want the wife to take care of everything. That is why, if you have a high earning husband, they often will give in and support their wives to become a SAHM, because that takes homecare, eldercare, childcare, petcare from their plates. And the rich husbands also support their SAHM wives in outsourcing the menial jobs.

They will pay whatever it takes so that they don't have to do anything other than their office work. Sorry, but, no sorry.

This. The problems come when they don't earn enough to outsource his share or have the mom stay home. I've seen this over and over. The happiest couples seem to be the high earner husband with the SAHM. Anything else sucks for either the wife or the kids. Or both. I wish I understood this 20 years ago.

NP. This hasn’t been my experience at all. My kids are almost grown and I would say the happiest and longest-lasting couples/families were the ones where both parents worked steady but not overwhelming jobs. They tended to be the most equitable marriages, with what looks like true deep affection between them. They may not have had the wealth of other couples, and the baby years were hard and draining, but they are by far the happiest group once the kids reach age seven or so going forward. Nothing is more valuable than time together, and that group has the most of it together as a family.

The high earner husband/SAHM marriages are more polarized. Sometimes they are happy. But often, there is a grim and bitter power dynamic that grows as the couple ages. Plus, from what I’ve seen there are more affairs in that group (on both sides).

This.

That’s such nonsense. Unhappy marriages comes in all shapes and forms. Conversely all the divorces I know are from dual working couples, where the man left the woman. See how personal accounts work? And mean absolutely nothing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

Many men actually do the majority of the house work, and looking after the kids. This is not new.

Also, it just makes sense to get a nanny for $20 an hour to look after your children while you are at work making much much more and a housekeeper to clean your house for 100 bucks a week. Many women use the argument that they have to take care of the home and the kids as an excuse to not work and capitalize on there early capacity, but they could be making much earn more money and just using daycare.

“Just using daycare”. I wanted to actually be with my children. *I* want to raise them, not outsource that. It’s not always about money. I couldn’t bare leaving them to go to work.

You are not that smart. It’s “bear.”

The worst is nitpicking on grammar and spelling in an anonymous forum. It sure doesn’t make you sound lovely, or smart at all. And it is true that many people don’t have kids just to cast them aside to the nanny. Even the high earning women I know lament being away from their kids so often.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My cousin, a good looking surgeon was super picky. He ended up with a pretty doctor from a high profile family. Like marries like.

m
Sure. But was she a surgeon with long hours too? Or somehow in a specialty more flexible that made time for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

Many men actually do the majority of the house work, and looking after the kids. This is not new.

Also, it just makes sense to get a nanny for $20 an hour to look after your children while you are at work making much much more and a housekeeper to clean your house for 100 bucks a week. Many women use the argument that they have to take care of the home and the kids as an excuse to not work and capitalize on there early capacity, but they could be making much earn more money and just using daycare.

“Just using daycare”. I wanted to actually be with my children. *I* want to raise them, not outsource that. It’s not always about money. I couldn’t bare leaving them to go to work.

You are not that smart. It’s “bear.”

The worst is nitpicking on grammar and spelling in an anonymous forum. It sure doesn’t make you sound lovely, or smart at all. And it is true that many people don’t have kids just to cast them aside to the nanny. Even the high earning women I know lament being away from their kids so often.

Even smart people make mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

That is the problem. Men now want it all. They want a high earner for a wife AND they still expect the wife to do all of this other work. This is why I am divorced. I do not think marriage offers any benefit. It offered me zero.

+1 back to those physician moms. Not only are they working less than their physician spouses to care for the children, they are harried off their feet trying to be super mom volunteering in school while working their jobs. i see surgeon mom in school but never surgeon dad. ER mom cuts down to three days a week at her job while ER dad takes on two jobs and travel. so now they are all burdened with work school and childcare. i rather be mansion mom who lunches and plays tennis, life seems easier.

+1 I tell my daughters not to go into medicine. The education costs are astronomical, the average salaries aren't high these days, there's little WFH flexibility, and you're going a million miles per hour during your shift. The two female doctors who I know really well have it rough. Both of them had to drop down to part time just to keep their families afloat. Now they don't earn much. One of them has a husband who does help with the kids, but he's not a high earner. He has family money though so they're doing fine. The other has a physician spouse who concentrates on his career. The wife is a great mother but she handles the house and kid stuff and she's just going, going, going all day every day.

Kind of a sidebar, but I also warn my girls not to go into low-paying fields. The whole spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 11+ years of education to earn less than they could with an easy WFH job is for the trust fund set. Same with many nonprofit jobs. Those are for the trust fund kids or people with wealthy spouses. Prestigious with low pay isn't for most of us.

Actually don’t be too down on medicine for your daughters. I have noticed that in other high flying lucrative professions such as law or banking or consulting many women quit after children, especially if they have high income husbands. The doctors return however. I have thought about it and I think it’s because medicine can be quite flexible depending on the specialty. Like I see the female doctors working less days. The paying your dues and insane hours happen more in your youth, but once you become an attending it’s easier to control hours. Also asides from continuing education it seems easier for doctors to return to the work force after taking time off vs other professions where you become obsolete if you don’t keep one foot in. The girl just has to be smart about the speciality, there is a reason why most dermatologists are women.

Exactly! Specialty is what matters most in medicine. My brother is a dermatologist and has a great quality of life.

One doesn’t just say “I want derm” and it happens.

It is one of the hardest specialities to match to.

No guaruntee that you land derm during med school for res matching….and then what?

If derm is what makes or breaks your desire To be a doc, it’s not something you should bank on

Family practice and pediatrics is pretty flexible too. All the prestigious careers are difficult. But so far medicine seems easier for women to return to than the others.

I don't know where you're getting your information. The burnout is real in primary care. With all of the notes, messages, and paperwork even if you're technically PT you're still clocking FT hours. I don't want to detail the thread, but want to paint a realistic picture of modern medicine.

Every job sucks. Investment banking sucks. Consulting sucks. Big Law sucks. I am sure medicine sucks too. But the thing is what sucks the least and still allow for women to return and still have a decent paycheck. You can burn out in primary care, step out for a few years and come back more easily. Yes maybe I am a little too idealistic about medicine. I see a lot of other burnt out professions women that never step back, but somehow the doctors return. Is there another explanation for this? I am all ears.

[Anonymous]

Guy here. No way I’d marry someone just because they’re a high-earner. When I was single I dated all kinds people - cashiers, attorneys, med students, teachers, etc. I ended up marrying a really driven woman who works in tech sales and is a high earner. I admire her drive and all of her accomplishments (and have learned a lot from her about what it takes to be successful) but what pulled me in was the attraction. We’ve now been married 20 years and the attraction is just as strong as it’s always been. For me, I made the right choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

That is the problem. Men now want it all. They want a high earner for a wife AND they still expect the wife to do all of this other work. This is why I am divorced. I do not think marriage offers any benefit. It offered me zero.

+1 back to those physician moms. Not only are they working less than their physician spouses to care for the children, they are harried off their feet trying to be super mom volunteering in school while working their jobs. i see surgeon mom in school but never surgeon dad. ER mom cuts down to three days a week at her job while ER dad takes on two jobs and travel. so now they are all burdened with work school and childcare. i rather be mansion mom who lunches and plays tennis, life seems easier.

+1 I tell my daughters not to go into medicine. The education costs are astronomical, the average salaries aren't high these days, there's little WFH flexibility, and you're going a million miles per hour during your shift. The two female doctors who I know really well have it rough. Both of them had to drop down to part time just to keep their families afloat. Now they don't earn much. One of them has a husband who does help with the kids, but he's not a high earner. He has family money though so they're doing fine. The other has a physician spouse who concentrates on his career. The wife is a great mother but she handles the house and kid stuff and she's just going, going, going all day every day.

Kind of a sidebar, but I also warn my girls not to go into low-paying fields. The whole spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 11+ years of education to earn less than they could with an easy WFH job is for the trust fund set. Same with many nonprofit jobs. Those are for the trust fund kids or people with wealthy spouses. Prestigious with low pay isn't for most of us.

Actually don’t be too down on medicine for your daughters. I have noticed that in other high flying lucrative professions such as law or banking or consulting many women quit after children, especially if they have high income husbands. The doctors return however. I have thought about it and I think it’s because medicine can be quite flexible depending on the specialty. Like I see the female doctors working less days. The paying your dues and insane hours happen more in your youth, but once you become an attending it’s easier to control hours. Also asides from continuing education it seems easier for doctors to return to the work force after taking time off vs other professions where you become obsolete if you don’t keep one foot in. The girl just has to be smart about the speciality, there is a reason why most dermatologists are women.

Exactly! Specialty is what matters most in medicine. My brother is a dermatologist and has a great quality of life.

One doesn’t just say “I want derm” and it happens.

It is one of the hardest specialities to match to.

No guaruntee that you land derm during med school for res matching….and then what?

If derm is what makes or breaks your desire To be a doc, it’s not something you should bank on

Family practice and pediatrics is pretty flexible too. All the prestigious careers are difficult. But so far medicine seems easier for women to return to than the others.

I don't know where you're getting your information. The burnout is real in primary care. With all of the notes, messages, and paperwork even if you're technically PT you're still clocking FT hours. I don't want to detail the thread, but want to paint a realistic picture of modern medicine.

Every job sucks. Investment banking sucks. Consulting sucks. Big Law sucks. I am sure medicine sucks too. But the thing is what sucks the least and still allow for women to return and still have a decent paycheck. You can burn out in primary care, step out for a few years and come back more easily. Yes maybe I am a little too idealistic about medicine. I see a lot of other burnt out professions women that never step back, but somehow the doctors return. Is there another explanation for this? I am all ears.

You also don’t have to work full time hours in medicine in something like primary care or pediatrics. I know a few moms that don’t do full time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guy here. No way I’d marry someone just because they’re a high-earner. When I was single I dated all kinds people - cashiers, attorneys, med students, teachers, etc. I ended up marrying a really driven woman who works in tech sales and is a high earner. I admire her drive and all of her accomplishments (and have learned a lot from her about what it takes to be successful) but what pulled me in was the attraction. We’ve now been married 20 years and the attraction is just as strong as it’s always been. For me, I made the right choice.

The qualities of being driven , successful often go hand by hand with attraction. It's true for both men and women. Tall, thin and attractive people are on average more successful. Somehow I've seen few attractive female teachers at my child's educational establishments, from pre-K to HS. They are all frumpy, or the "grey mouse" types. Not sure what's about all these men bragging about marrying hot teachers. I am yet to see a single one.

At my work (law and finance) there are plenty of bright and attractive women, many work flexible hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy here. No way I’d marry someone just because they’re a high-earner. When I was single I dated all kinds people - cashiers, attorneys, med students, teachers, etc. I ended up marrying a really driven woman who works in tech sales and is a high earner. I admire her drive and all of her accomplishments (and have learned a lot from her about what it takes to be successful) but what pulled me in was the attraction. We’ve now been married 20 years and the attraction is just as strong as it’s always been. For me, I made the right choice.

The qualities of being driven , successful often go hand by hand with attraction. It's true for both men and women. Tall, thin and attractive people are on average more successful. Somehow I've seen few attractive female teachers at my child's educational establishments, from pre-K to HS. They are all frumpy, or the "grey mouse" types. Not sure what's about all these men bragging about marrying hot teachers. I am yet to see a single one.

At my work (law and finance) there are plenty of bright and attractive women, many work flexible hours.

PP here. I think that highly driven people people are often more fit. They consider their health important and probably recognize the beauty bias that is part of life. My wife put herself through college on a track scholarship and lifelong fitness is important to her.

[Anonymous]

Op here I think we should give millennial and gen z men more credit. I don’t think that all women now have to cut part time because of their lash husbands. Maybe it’s anecdotal but many of my husbands friends are equal parenting partners. I think all the men he hangs out with enjoy the double income life and don’t mind doing child care and having equal caregiving to allow for this. Hopefully we are all raising our sons to do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here I think we should give millennial and gen z men more credit. I don’t think that all women now have to cut part time because of their lash husbands. Maybe it’s anecdotal but many of my husbands friends are equal parenting partners. I think all the men he hangs out with enjoy the double income life and don’t mind doing child care and having equal caregiving to allow for this. Hopefully we are all raising our sons to do the same.

Millennial here. We must be hanging in different circles because I am not seeing this in my peer group. The one couple I used to praise for equal childcare to my DH ended up divorcing. The others… ha ha ha. And we are talking about white collar high income professionals here or ultra rich business owners. I am highly cynical.

[Anonymous]

It’s all equality and fun and games till the children come. I was in a neighborhood group text where the moms were stressing about how to get hot cocoa to their schools and someone pointed out no dad has ever stressed about that. And this is a wealthy liberal enclave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the ‘20s. Men are absolutely looking for high wage earning women. Women have been seeking out men who earn more for century, it should be no surprise that ultimately men we’re going to do the same.


Welcome to the mid but we’re in the mid 20s, ladies!

The big question is whether or not men are now going to do half the childcare, cooking, and housework. Based on my observations it seems like marriage has less and less to offer women, but we shall see.

That is the problem. Men now want it all. They want a high earner for a wife AND they still expect the wife to do all of this other work. This is why I am divorced. I do not think marriage offers any benefit. It offered me zero.

+1 back to those physician moms. Not only are they working less than their physician spouses to care for the children, they are harried off their feet trying to be super mom volunteering in school while working their jobs. i see surgeon mom in school but never surgeon dad. ER mom cuts down to three days a week at her job while ER dad takes on two jobs and travel. so now they are all burdened with work school and childcare. i rather be mansion mom who lunches and plays tennis, life seems easier.

+1 I tell my daughters not to go into medicine. The education costs are astronomical, the average salaries aren't high these days, there's little WFH flexibility, and you're going a million miles per hour during your shift. The two female doctors who I know really well have it rough. Both of them had to drop down to part time just to keep their families afloat. Now they don't earn much. One of them has a husband who does help with the kids, but he's not a high earner. He has family money though so they're doing fine. The other has a physician spouse who concentrates on his career. The wife is a great mother but she handles the house and kid stuff and she's just going, going, going all day every day.

Kind of a sidebar, but I also warn my girls not to go into low-paying fields. The whole spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and 11+ years of education to earn less than they could with an easy WFH job is for the trust fund set. Same with many nonprofit jobs. Those are for the trust fund kids or people with wealthy spouses. Prestigious with low pay isn't for most of us.

Actually don’t be too down on medicine for your daughters. I have noticed that in other high flying lucrative professions such as law or banking or consulting many women quit after children, especially if they have high income husbands. The doctors return however. I have thought about it and I think it’s because medicine can be quite flexible depending on the specialty. Like I see the female doctors working less days. The paying your dues and insane hours happen more in your youth, but once you become an attending it’s easier to control hours. Also asides from continuing education it seems easier for doctors to return to the work force after taking time off vs other professions where you become obsolete if you don’t keep one foot in. The girl just has to be smart about the speciality, there is a reason why most dermatologists are women.

Exactly! Specialty is what matters most in medicine. My brother is a dermatologist and has a great quality of life.

One doesn’t just say “I want derm” and it happens.

It is one of the hardest specialities to match to.

No guaruntee that you land derm during med school for res matching….and then what?

If derm is what makes or breaks your desire To be a doc, it’s not something you should bank on

Family practice and pediatrics is pretty flexible too. All the prestigious careers are difficult. But so far medicine seems easier for women to return to than the others.

I don't know where you're getting your information. The burnout is real in primary care. With all of the notes, messages, and paperwork even if you're technically PT you're still clocking FT hours. I don't want to detail the thread, but want to paint a realistic picture of modern medicine.

Every job sucks. Investment banking sucks. Consulting sucks. Big Law sucks. I am sure medicine sucks too. But the thing is what sucks the least and still allow for women to return and still have a decent paycheck. You can burn out in primary care, step out for a few years and come back more easily. Yes maybe I am a little too idealistic about medicine. I see a lot of other burnt out professions women that never step back, but somehow the doctors return. Is there another explanation for this? I am all ears.

It does. I'm just saying don't glamorize medicine. The statistics for women working full-time after residency are abysmal. Yes, you can find a peds job 2 days a week, but how much do you think that pays? 80K. In that case, marry the woman because you love her not for being a cash cow. The majority will not be working FT.