The cruelty and misogyny of forced birth politics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP of this thread here and the forced birthers have amply proven the fatuousness of their arguments, basically arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin but missing the actual point which is:

You’re overjoyed to punish women. Like you’re clearly giddy about it. The hateful politics of forced birtherism - and yes, it has its roots in the patriarchy and organized, conservative religion - exist to punish women for existing, but especially to punish women for imagining that they should have some say what happens to their body.

Sepsis wards will be back. Children will be left motherless. Women will be maimed and made sterile and families who wanted to have more children will be broken. This is the real deal, not whether or not a zygote is a human.

The state cannot even compel someone to donate blood, yet here it is, compelling women to donate their body and life to a state they don’t want. If you say, “well, they chose to have sex!” I’m willing to play along in your Pollyanna world in which women and girls are always granted bodily autonomy (although your forced birth politics prove that they are not). It doesn’t matter. Humans get to say what happens to their bodies, especially something as life altering as pregnancy and birth.

Carry on with your cruelty though, but be aware that the game is up. No one believes you give a rat’s about life anymore. You just hate women.

You’re simply close minded. You think you know better than everyone else and have shut your mind to the possibility that the issue is NOT about a woman’s choice at all. It’s about something more fundamental… when does human life begin? But, go ahead and hate all men. That is your prerogative.

As far as the state … they can take peoples lives (death penalty) … they can put people in prison. They do this to a lot more men then women too, so does the state hate men too? No, the state is simply a reflection of the people and the people in some states are very religious and elect and vote upon those lines. It’s not because they hate women, it is because they believe an unborn fetus is a person and thou shalt not kill. Funny enough they also believe in an eye for an eye so they vote for the death penalty. Anyhow, you’ll continue to never convince anyone of your point of view due to your strong hatred of men and insistence that pro lifers are so because they hate women. Just a dumb argument.

This. I often see the argument from liberal pro-choice voters that the pro life crowd hates women. I disagree. I am pro-choice and a moderate but grew up in a very conservative, almost fundamentalist society. My impression is that this group of people thinks you’re killing a baby. If anything, the women are ignored. There isn’t anymore hatred of women than from the left. If anything, they think women should be worshipped and that their job of giving birth is an important one. There seemed to be almost an obsession with having babies and raising a family. I truly don’t think they hate women anymore than any other group hates women. If anything it’s just a strong opinion that the fetus is a baby.

I also don’t think that many liberal pro-choice voters understand how many people don’t support killing babies. My own husband is fairly liberal and after recent ultrasounds has talked about how he could never support a woman getting an abortion. That it’s cruel. Objectively, I support abortion fully but I also recognize and understand why people dislike it.

I'm liberal and pro-choice, but grew up in a very religious, conservative, and anti-choice household and community. Worshipping women solely because of their ability to gestate babies is a form of misogyny, reducing us merely to one of the infinite variety of things we are capable of. Ignoring the role of a woman in carrying a pregnancy to term is a way of erasing us as people and minimizing the extreme health risk that every woman takes on by carrying a pregnancy.

I don't know what to tell you, but responses like your DH's from men who see an ultrasound for the first time make me ill. How many ultrasounds has your DH had to experience? How many of them were transvaginal? How many times has he had to look at an ultrasound of what was previously a healthy pregnancy showing a fetus that has stopped developing. Looking at ultrasounds over years of fertility treatments and miscarriages taught me that every single baby who is born healthy is an unlikely miracle. As someone who almost died giving birth to a baby after an otherwise healthy pregnancy, I have exactly zero tolerance for people who would minimize the risk and effort that go into gestating and delivering a baby. I truly hope you don't have a DD, given how little your DH will value her life if she ever becomes pregnant.

This response is why I continue to move further and further away from the D party. I tell a story about how my husband saw the ultrasound and couldn’t imagine hurting the baby. The response is that she/he hopes I don’t have a daughter. Like how did we get to this place?? A man who felt emotions of love when he saw the ultrasound shouldn’t have a daughter? Would it be better if my husband felt feelings of wanting to harm the baby? I truly don’t understand and stuff like this makes me question everything. I’m very much pro-choice but when I read responses like the one from PP, I can’t help but wonder if maybe I need to reconsider who I am aligning my views with.

[Anonymous]

This is why women need to be the deciders. Your husband’s views were loving, but saw only a narrow perspective. They didn’t see the perspective of the overall health of the woman, for instance. She ought to figure in this decision.

[Anonymous]

Women need to have more kids.

How do we make that happen without compulsion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women need to have more kids.

How do we make that happen without compulsion?

No we don’t. The world is overpopulated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women need to have more kids.

How do we make that happen without compulsion?

No we don’t. The world is overpopulated.

more than half the global population is Chinese or Indian. We need more Europeans. Have kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women need to have more kids.

How do we make that happen without compulsion?

No we don’t. The world is overpopulated.

more than half the global population is Chinese or Indian. We need more Europeans. Have kids.

“Europeans”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP of this thread here and the forced birthers have amply proven the fatuousness of their arguments, basically arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin but missing the actual point which is:

You’re overjoyed to punish women. Like you’re clearly giddy about it. The hateful politics of forced birtherism - and yes, it has its roots in the patriarchy and organized, conservative religion - exist to punish women for existing, but especially to punish women for imagining that they should have some say what happens to their body.

Sepsis wards will be back. Children will be left motherless. Women will be maimed and made sterile and families who wanted to have more children will be broken. This is the real deal, not whether or not a zygote is a human.

The state cannot even compel someone to donate blood, yet here it is, compelling women to donate their body and life to a state they don’t want. If you say, “well, they chose to have sex!” I’m willing to play along in your Pollyanna world in which women and girls are always granted bodily autonomy (although your forced birth politics prove that they are not). It doesn’t matter. Humans get to say what happens to their bodies, especially something as life altering as pregnancy and birth.

Carry on with your cruelty though, but be aware that the game is up. No one believes you give a rat’s about life anymore. You just hate women.

You’re simply close minded. You think you know better than everyone else and have shut your mind to the possibility that the issue is NOT about a woman’s choice at all. It’s about something more fundamental… when does human life begin? But, go ahead and hate all men. That is your prerogative.

As far as the state … they can take peoples lives (death penalty) … they can put people in prison. They do this to a lot more men then women too, so does the state hate men too? No, the state is simply a reflection of the people and the people in some states are very religious and elect and vote upon those lines. It’s not because they hate women, it is because they believe an unborn fetus is a person and thou shalt not kill. Funny enough they also believe in an eye for an eye so they vote for the death penalty. Anyhow, you’ll continue to never convince anyone of your point of view due to your strong hatred of men and insistence that pro lifers are so because they hate women. Just a dumb argument.

This. I often see the argument from liberal pro-choice voters that the pro life crowd hates women. I disagree. I am pro-choice and a moderate but grew up in a very conservative, almost fundamentalist society. My impression is that this group of people thinks you’re killing a baby. If anything, the women are ignored. There isn’t anymore hatred of women than from the left. If anything, they think women should be worshipped and that their job of giving birth is an important one. There seemed to be almost an obsession with having babies and raising a family. I truly don’t think they hate women anymore than any other group hates women. If anything it’s just a strong opinion that the fetus is a baby.

I also don’t think that many liberal pro-choice voters understand how many people don’t support killing babies. My own husband is fairly liberal and after recent ultrasounds has talked about how he could never support a woman getting an abortion. That it’s cruel. Objectively, I support abortion fully but I also recognize and understand why people dislike it.

I'm liberal and pro-choice, but grew up in a very religious, conservative, and anti-choice household and community. Worshipping women solely because of their ability to gestate babies is a form of misogyny, reducing us merely to one of the infinite variety of things we are capable of. Ignoring the role of a woman in carrying a pregnancy to term is a way of erasing us as people and minimizing the extreme health risk that every woman takes on by carrying a pregnancy.

I don't know what to tell you, but responses like your DH's from men who see an ultrasound for the first time make me ill. How many ultrasounds has your DH had to experience? How many of them were transvaginal? How many times has he had to look at an ultrasound of what was previously a healthy pregnancy showing a fetus that has stopped developing. Looking at ultrasounds over years of fertility treatments and miscarriages taught me that every single baby who is born healthy is an unlikely miracle. As someone who almost died giving birth to a baby after an otherwise healthy pregnancy, I have exactly zero tolerance for people who would minimize the risk and effort that go into gestating and delivering a baby. I truly hope you don't have a DD, given how little your DH will value her life if she ever becomes pregnant.

This response is why I continue to move further and further away from the D party. I tell a story about how my husband saw the ultrasound and couldn’t imagine hurting the baby. The response is that she/he hopes I don’t have a daughter. Like how did we get to this place?? A man who felt emotions of love when he saw the ultrasound shouldn’t have a daughter? Would it be better if my husband felt feelings of wanting to harm the baby? I truly don’t understand and stuff like this makes me question everything. I’m very much pro-choice but when I read responses like the one from PP, I can’t help but wonder if maybe I need to reconsider who I am aligning my views with.

Oh yes, go Republican, and let your daughter die of her ectopic pregnancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women need to have more kids.

How do we make that happen without compulsion?

No we don’t. The world is overpopulated.

more than half the global population is Chinese or Indian. We need more Europeans. Have kids.

Classic dog whistle. Next you’ll tell me to “preserve western civilization.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women need to have more kids.

How do we make that happen without compulsion?

No we don’t. The world is overpopulated.

more than half the global population is Chinese or Indian. We need more Europeans. Have kids.

Classic dog whistle. Next you’ll tell me to “preserve western civilization.”

Get with the program, voluntarily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women need to have more kids.

How do we make that happen without compulsion?

No we don’t. The world is overpopulated.

more than half the global population is Chinese or Indian. We need more Europeans. Have kids.

Classic dog whistle. Next you’ll tell me to “preserve western civilization.”

Get with the program, voluntarily.

This ain’t Gilead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women need to have more kids.

How do we make that happen without compulsion?

No we don’t. The world is overpopulated.

more than half the global population is Chinese or Indian. We need more Europeans. Have kids.

Why do we need more white people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women need to have more kids.

How do we make that happen without compulsion?

Adopt a migrant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women need to have more kids.

How do we make that happen without compulsion?

Oh, and you can make that happen by making children, child care, health care, and education affordable. Making sure no child is food insecure.

So, by not being a Republican.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women need to have more kids.

How do we make that happen without compulsion?

Oh, and you can make that happen by making children, child care, health care, and education affordable. Making sure no child is food insecure.

So, by not being a Republican.

The irony these are all things being done by actual Europeans, who also aren’t pushing forced birth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP of this thread here and the forced birthers have amply proven the fatuousness of their arguments, basically arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin but missing the actual point which is:

You’re overjoyed to punish women. Like you’re clearly giddy about it. The hateful politics of forced birtherism - and yes, it has its roots in the patriarchy and organized, conservative religion - exist to punish women for existing, but especially to punish women for imagining that they should have some say what happens to their body.

Sepsis wards will be back. Children will be left motherless. Women will be maimed and made sterile and families who wanted to have more children will be broken. This is the real deal, not whether or not a zygote is a human.

The state cannot even compel someone to donate blood, yet here it is, compelling women to donate their body and life to a state they don’t want. If you say, “well, they chose to have sex!” I’m willing to play along in your Pollyanna world in which women and girls are always granted bodily autonomy (although your forced birth politics prove that they are not). It doesn’t matter. Humans get to say what happens to their bodies, especially something as life altering as pregnancy and birth.

Carry on with your cruelty though, but be aware that the game is up. No one believes you give a rat’s about life anymore. You just hate women.

You’re simply close minded. You think you know better than everyone else and have shut your mind to the possibility that the issue is NOT about a woman’s choice at all. It’s about something more fundamental… when does human life begin? But, go ahead and hate all men. That is your prerogative.

As far as the state … they can take peoples lives (death penalty) … they can put people in prison. They do this to a lot more men then women too, so does the state hate men too? No, the state is simply a reflection of the people and the people in some states are very religious and elect and vote upon those lines. It’s not because they hate women, it is because they believe an unborn fetus is a person and thou shalt not kill. Funny enough they also believe in an eye for an eye so they vote for the death penalty. Anyhow, you’ll continue to never convince anyone of your point of view due to your strong hatred of men and insistence that pro lifers are so because they hate women. Just a dumb argument.

This. I often see the argument from liberal pro-choice voters that the pro life crowd hates women. I disagree. I am pro-choice and a moderate but grew up in a very conservative, almost fundamentalist society. My impression is that this group of people thinks you’re killing a baby. If anything, the women are ignored. There isn’t anymore hatred of women than from the left. If anything, they think women should be worshipped and that their job of giving birth is an important one. There seemed to be almost an obsession with having babies and raising a family. I truly don’t think they hate women anymore than any other group hates women. If anything it’s just a strong opinion that the fetus is a baby.

I also don’t think that many liberal pro-choice voters understand how many people don’t support killing babies. My own husband is fairly liberal and after recent ultrasounds has talked about how he could never support a woman getting an abortion. That it’s cruel. Objectively, I support abortion fully but I also recognize and understand why people dislike it.

I'm liberal and pro-choice, but grew up in a very religious, conservative, and anti-choice household and community. Worshipping women solely because of their ability to gestate babies is a form of misogyny, reducing us merely to one of the infinite variety of things we are capable of. Ignoring the role of a woman in carrying a pregnancy to term is a way of erasing us as people and minimizing the extreme health risk that every woman takes on by carrying a pregnancy.

I don't know what to tell you, but responses like your DH's from men who see an ultrasound for the first time make me ill. How many ultrasounds has your DH had to experience? How many of them were transvaginal? How many times has he had to look at an ultrasound of what was previously a healthy pregnancy showing a fetus that has stopped developing. Looking at ultrasounds over years of fertility treatments and miscarriages taught me that every single baby who is born healthy is an unlikely miracle. As someone who almost died giving birth to a baby after an otherwise healthy pregnancy, I have exactly zero tolerance for people who would minimize the risk and effort that go into gestating and delivering a baby. I truly hope you don't have a DD, given how little your DH will value her life if she ever becomes pregnant.

This response is why I continue to move further and further away from the D party. I tell a story about how my husband saw the ultrasound and couldn’t imagine hurting the baby. The response is that she/he hopes I don’t have a daughter. Like how did we get to this place?? A man who felt emotions of love when he saw the ultrasound shouldn’t have a daughter? Would it be better if my husband felt feelings of wanting to harm the baby? I truly don’t understand and stuff like this makes me question everything. I’m very much pro-choice but when I read responses like the one from PP, I can’t help but wonder if maybe I need to reconsider who I am aligning my views with.

And you make me more entrenched in mine (NP here). It's sweet, your DH's reaction to your own baby. But, that is very largely irrelevant and an emotional reaction. If you and he don't want to "kill your baby" that's your decision. But, you don't get to make that decision for other people. You don't. You shouldn't. Unless your DH plans to support free birth control and programs to support women, kids, families after that baby arrives, or to adopt those unwanted kids, he needs to understand that his reaction is an EMOTIONAL one with little in the way of a solution to "killing babies." And it's offensive that he would think his emotional reaction should carry more weight than my, my DD's, my neighbors, my friends' personal, medical decisions re: their preganancy.