What happened to young men?

[Anonymous]

OP, I have two stepsons and they are very socially awkward. I think a lot of it is screens. And that trend is NOT solely covid's fault. They actually had a pretty easy time adapting to covid shutdown because they were already socializing mostly online anyway even before covid. Either doing whatever the teen version of Zoom is or playing videos online together, etc. They barely socialized in person at all throughout their teens.

If I was the mom, I would have put limits on screen time, even if it meant having to take their devices at night or change the wifi password. It's so unhealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at a mixed ages party with a lot of young adults but the guys weren’t going to the women and mingling with them.
Is the culture changed so much young guys are afraid of talking to young women in real life.
I am asking as a middle aged guy.

It’s a cultural shift that took place because of metoo#, the internet got you videos, pay equity(see dating in Iceland) and women saying they do not want to be bothered by men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mean the young women weren't harassed like when you were young?

The horror! They can actually attend parties, eat, drink and chat like actual human beings, without being followed, surrounded, or need to watch their drink the entire time.

Instead, if they're interested in a young man their age, they can go up to him and start a conversation, peer-to-peer.

How sad for them, OP.

But the issue is they don't go up to guys. And guys don't go up to them out of fear, ever though woman naturally expect them the male to approach.

They want guys they're attracted to to come up and talk to them. I think the problem is men have a harder time determining whether they are attractive to women or not, whether due to covid or too much time online or whatever. It's also possible young men are less attractive compared to young men in the past, see studies on testosterone decline, etc.

Men are getting destroyed by women. It’s like a sport. That Lots of those TikTok videos of women making fun or embarrassing men who approach women. It’s a cultural thing now. If you are a young man and you approach a woman you are atypical and an outliner. Most likely have EQ deficiency or something worst,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mean the young women weren't harassed like when you were young?

The horror! They can actually attend parties, eat, drink and chat like actual human beings, without being followed, surrounded, or need to watch their drink the entire time.

Instead, if they're interested in a young man their age, they can go up to him and start a conversation, peer-to-peer.

How sad for them, OP.

But the issue is they don't go up to guys. And guys don't go up to them out of fear, ever though woman naturally expect them the male to approach.

They want guys they're attracted to to come up and talk to them. I think the problem is men have a harder time determining whether they are attractive to women or not, whether due to covid or too much time online or whatever. It's also possible young men are less attractive compared to young men in the past, see studies on testosterone decline, etc.

I haven’t seen the studies, but I’m a 50YO woman, I was out with some girlfriends the other night at a bar that skews young and I actually said to them, thank god I’m not 24 and looking for a man. These guys all looked so unattractive to me - softbodied, pale, with scraggly facial hair (and I love a good beard or goatee)…the women were no prizes either. It’s sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at a mixed ages party with a lot of young adults but the guys weren’t going to the women and mingling with them.
Is the culture changed so much young guys are afraid of talking to young women in real life.
I am asking as a middle aged guy.

You say mixed ages party. Does that mean the young people had older family or family friends there? For a guy at a party like that, talking with a woman carries too much commitment. Could they have been staying separate on purpose because they knew you were there watching? Call it Heisenberg's hookup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mean the young women weren't harassed like when you were young?

The horror! They can actually attend parties, eat, drink and chat like actual human beings, without being followed, surrounded, or need to watch their drink the entire time.

Instead, if they're interested in a young man their age, they can go up to him and start a conversation, peer-to-peer.

How sad for them, OP.

But the issue is they don't go up to guys. And guys don't go up to them out of fear, ever though woman naturally expect them the male to approach.

They want guys they're attracted to to come up and talk to them. I think the problem is men have a harder time determining whether they are attractive to women or not, whether due to covid or too much time online or whatever. It's also possible young men are less attractive compared to young men in the past, see studies on testosterone decline, etc.

Men are getting destroyed by women. It’s like a sport. That Lots of those TikTok videos of women making fun or embarrassing men who approach women. It’s a cultural thing now. If you are a young man and you approach a woman you are atypical and an outliner. Most likely have EQ deficiency or something worst,

Ultimately it's a culture/society problem. Men are raised in a world where they see Kevin James or Ray Romano on TV with a hot chick and think "Great! Looks don't matter in men!" and therefore have no idea where they are on the totem pole, when the stark reality is the typical guy is not only not attractive to the hot chick, they're not attractive to any woman. And the revealed preference is that most women don't want any man to come up and bother them. Sure when pollsters call they might say they wish more when would approach, but they are imagining a handsome, confident man, not the typical man. That's why the average young woman is wearing headphones, keeping their head down. Most men have no idea they're unattractive or assume it doesn't matter/can be overcome with confidence/charisma/charm.
The only downside of the metoo movement for women is that actual attractive men are much less likely to approach.

[Anonymous]

^^*men would approach, not when

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at a mixed ages party with a lot of young adults but the guys weren’t going to the women and mingling with them.
Is the culture changed so much young guys are afraid of talking to young women in real life.
I am asking as a middle aged guy.

It's interesting that you are a middle aged guy asking the question, observing what you think "should be" and what the reality is.

The real question is, are the young women actually complaining about it? I, when I was a young woman, would have loved to exchange witty repartee with a party full of Mr. Darcys and Rhett Butlers. Unfortunately, most of the men I encountered were awkward schlubs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mean the young women weren't harassed like when you were young?

The horror! They can actually attend parties, eat, drink and chat like actual human beings, without being followed, surrounded, or need to watch their drink the entire time.

Instead, if they're interested in a young man their age, they can go up to him and start a conversation, peer-to-peer.

How sad for them, OP.

But the issue is they don't go up to guys. And guys don't go up to them out of fear, ever though woman naturally expect them the male to approach.

We can worry about that later. For now, less harassment is a win.

Sure. But absolutely no young man is going to know whether their approach to a young woman is going to be deemed flirting or harassment. And social media makes the consequences of misjudging and a shoot down enormous. These boys grew up while men like Al Franken were absolutely destroyed for... No one knows why Al Franken was destroyed. But it had to do with a mild joke relating to a woman. He got wrecked for it. A smart guy, a US Senator, trying to do the right thing, and he got destroyed for a very mid and harmless joke from a long time ago.

So these boys grew up with that and MeToo. And they learned that talking to women is incredibly dangerous. You can destroy your entire life with a bad joke or a woman rejecting him and posting on social media about it. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking about an awkward date Aziz Ansari had. That date posted all about it online and it nearly destroyed this man's career.

The lesson these young men have learned is that flirting is dangerous business today. Combine that with the covid isolation, which definitely affected social skills, and the damn phones, and it's not a great time for a young man to take a risk and talk to a woman today.

It's sad and pathetic. But the lameness of young men today is not entirely irrational. And they have their porn. So a lot of them are checked out and don't even try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mean the young women weren't harassed like when you were young?

The horror! They can actually attend parties, eat, drink and chat like actual human beings, without being followed, surrounded, or need to watch their drink the entire time.

Instead, if they're interested in a young man their age, they can go up to him and start a conversation, peer-to-peer.

How sad for them, OP.

But the issue is they don't go up to guys. And guys don't go up to them out of fear, ever though woman naturally expect them the male to approach.

They want guys they're attracted to to come up and talk to them. I think the problem is men have a harder time determining whether they are attractive to women or not, whether due to covid or too much time online or whatever. It's also possible young men are less attractive compared to young men in the past, see studies on testosterone decline, etc.

Men are getting destroyed by women. It’s like a sport. That Lots of those TikTok videos of women making fun or embarrassing men who approach women. It’s a cultural thing now. If you are a young man and you approach a woman you are atypical and an outliner. Most likely have EQ deficiency or something worst,

Plus, real or fake, if you can't provide a Birkin on the 3rd, weekend on the private jet, don't have at least a couple million in the bank by you graduate college you might as well not even try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Sure. But absolutely no young man is going to know whether their approach to a young woman is going to be deemed flirting or harassment. And social media makes the consequences of misjudging and a shoot down enormous. These boys grew up while men like Al Franken were absolutely destroyed for... No one knows why Al Franken was destroyed. But it had to do with a mild joke relating to a woman. He got wrecked for it. A smart guy, a US Senator, trying to do the right thing, and he got destroyed for a very mid and harmless joke from a long time ago.

So these boys grew up with that and MeToo. And they learned that talking to women is incredibly dangerous. You can destroy your entire life with a bad joke or a woman rejecting him and posting on social media about it. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking about an awkward date Aziz Ansari had. That date posted all about it online and it nearly destroyed this man's career.

The lesson these young men have learned is that flirting is dangerous business today. Combine that with the covid isolation, which definitely affected social skills, and the damn phones, and it's not a great time for a young man to take a risk and talk to a woman today.

It's sad and pathetic. But the lameness of young men today is not entirely irrational. And they have their porn. So a lot of them are checked out and don't even try.

Al Franken was a grown man who got photographed committing a crime--touching a woman's breasts without her consent while asleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mean the young women weren't harassed like when you were young?

The horror! They can actually attend parties, eat, drink and chat like actual human beings, without being followed, surrounded, or need to watch their drink the entire time.

Instead, if they're interested in a young man their age, they can go up to him and start a conversation, peer-to-peer.

How sad for them, OP.

But the issue is they don't go up to guys. And guys don't go up to them out of fear, ever though woman naturally expect them the male to approach.

We can worry about that later. For now, less harassment is a win.

Sure. But absolutely no young man is going to know whether their approach to a young woman is going to be deemed flirting or harassment. And social media makes the consequences of misjudging and a shoot down enormous. These boys grew up while men like Al Franken were absolutely destroyed for... No one knows why Al Franken was destroyed. But it had to do with a mild joke relating to a woman. He got wrecked for it. A smart guy, a US Senator, trying to do the right thing, and he got destroyed for a very mid and harmless joke from a long time ago.

So these boys grew up with that and MeToo. And they learned that talking to women is incredibly dangerous. You can destroy your entire life with a bad joke or a woman rejecting him and posting on social media about it. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking about an awkward date Aziz Ansari had. That date posted all about it online and it nearly destroyed this man's career.

The lesson these young men have learned is that flirting is dangerous business today. Combine that with the covid isolation, which definitely affected social skills, and the damn phones, and it's not a great time for a young man to take a risk and talk to a woman today.

It's sad and pathetic. But the lameness of young men today is not entirely irrational. And they have their porn. So a lot of them are checked out and don't even try.

Meanwhile, women are choosing the bear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What age? I have an 18 year old in high school, and there is a high degree of socialization between genders. My child has many friends of the opposite sex and does things with them solo and in groups.

I do think (perhaps) the kids who were in high school/college during Covid are not at ease socially.

24-29 years old.

Oh yeah, these people don't dance, drink, or have sex. They're online or doing self-care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes OP. My niece and nephew are early twenties. Their entire lives have been online, plus high school during covid. They are perfectly nice, successful, well mannered but just being able to make conversational small talk seems really challenging. It’s a face to face skill that has to be learned and practiced.

OP updated the ages and would have been 19 -24 during Covid, so more of a ruined college experience

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mean the young women weren't harassed like when you were young?

The horror! They can actually attend parties, eat, drink and chat like actual human beings, without being followed, surrounded, or need to watch their drink the entire time.

Instead, if they're interested in a young man their age, they can go up to him and start a conversation, peer-to-peer.

How sad for them, OP.

But the issue is they don't go up to guys. And guys don't go up to them out of fear, ever though woman naturally expect them the male to approach.

We can worry about that later. For now, less harassment is a win.

Mingling at a party is not harassment.