A very uncomfortable situation- how to handle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another Jewish American here and I would absolutely appreciate a call or text to check in. Something like, "Hey, I wanted to check in after our lunch. I know we don't usually talk politics and it seemed like today's discussion really upset you, so I wanted to make sure you're ok."

We Jews have all been a little on edge since October 7. Plus, it's always difficult to be ambushed by people we thought were friends.

Totally agree with this as a Jewish American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This a political discussion not a religious discussion. Israel vs Gaza/Iran is not a religious debate.

Civilized people don't discuss politics at the dinner table, unless you want to live in an echo chamber.

Your friends made their choice, forcing your other friend to make her choice.

I wonder if you wished more people wouldn't have pretended awful things weren't happening all around them in 1938 Germany. You are too privileged if you think talking about politics NOW is not civilized. Shame on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a jewish (American) person who doesn't want to hear people bash Israel, I would appreciate the call from you. Yes, a lot of what Israel is doing is atrocious but this country has been defending themselves from all sides for their entire "life".

I have never heard ANYONE unleash on the IDF without ALSO talking smack about Jewish people. THAT is the real issue for me. Their antisemitism comes roaring out, and they can't/won't see that.

I am genuinely not trying to be inflammatory but I do find your last paragraph hard to believe. Have you not spoken with any of the many Jewish voices against instances of IDF brutality?

Of course. I am also against the IDF brutality. However, my jewish friends and I are able to separate what the IDF is doing from hating all jewish people, even hating all Israelis. And that's not something I can say about non-jews. We (my jewish friends/relatives and I) don't unleash to each other about the IDF. We don't need to because we know we all agree. Our talks are more solution-oriented and about the therapy everyone involved will need, and how all the hard work bridging relationships between Israelis and Palestinians over the last few decades has crumbled. Some of us were involved in those programs.

When I said I've never heard anyone unleash on the IDF without also talking smack about jewish people, I meant "anyone" to mean non-jews. Sorry for not being clear the first time.

Non-jews can also separate government policy and IDF actions ordered by a government from "all Israelis" or "all Jews." You just haven't heard enough people.

Agree. She needs to step out of her echo chamber to. And how will people learn anything if they keep walking out. Sit and listen as if lives depend on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a jewish (American) person who doesn't want to hear people bash Israel, I would appreciate the call from you. Yes, a lot of what Israel is doing is atrocious but this country has been defending themselves from all sides for their entire "life".

I have never heard ANYONE unleash on the IDF without ALSO talking smack about Jewish people. THAT is the real issue for me. Their antisemitism comes roaring out, and they can't/won't see that.

I am genuinely not trying to be inflammatory but I do find your last paragraph hard to believe. Have you not spoken with any of the many Jewish voices against instances of IDF brutality?

Of course. I am also against the IDF brutality. However, my jewish friends and I are able to separate what the IDF is doing from hating all jewish people, even hating all Israelis. And that's not something I can say about non-jews. We (my jewish friends/relatives and I) don't unleash to each other about the IDF. We don't need to because we know we all agree. Our talks are more solution-oriented and about the therapy everyone involved will need, and how all the hard work bridging relationships between Israelis and Palestinians over the last few decades has crumbled. Some of us were involved in those programs.

When I said I've never heard anyone unleash on the IDF without also talking smack about jewish people, I meant "anyone" to mean non-jews. Sorry for not being clear the first time.

Non-jews can also separate government policy and IDF actions ordered by a government from "all Israelis" or "all Jews." You just haven't heard enough people.

This is about how the woman who walked out felt - clearly she felt the discussion was antisemitic.

Probably was. My post responded to a quote from someone who wasn't the woman who walked out.

Criticizing Israel is not antisemitic.

[Anonymous]

Agreed but who knows what people there said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am friends with a group from my sons school. We get together once a month for lunch or dinner.

So happens we went out for lunch today for our monthly get together. We are a real mix of personalities. Of the 8 of us, 2 are Jewish the rest are mixed religions. We all never bring up politics or religion as an unspoken rule however today the most outspoken of the bunch came out and blasted Israel for what they are doing. She really unloaded, once she got started, she didn't let up (with encouragement from others). We were all kind of surprised and in shock at first. One of the moms (Jewish) is married to a christian husband and is not religious and was one of the first to agree. Then a few others did too. The other Jewish mom however did not take this well. She started to defend whats going on then abruptly got up and said she had to leave early.

Of all the moms, shes the one I am the least close with but I feel badly for how it went. I want to call her just to see how shes doing because I know it was upsetting to her. Not to say I agree with her at all but shes human and no doubt felt really outnumbered as the "ringleader" came on really strong. Should I call or leave it alone?

It sounds like she's uncomfortable with truth. It might be time for her to wake up to reality, even if it's uncomfortable. It doesn't sound like she was targeted or blamed because she's Jewish (and she should absolutely not be), but ethically, walking away when you feel uncomfortable is a bit childish. There are so many Jews of conscience who abhor what Israel is doing - this isn't a religious thing, it's a political litmus test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Jewish American here and I would absolutely appreciate a call or text to check in. Something like, "Hey, I wanted to check in after our lunch. I know we don't usually talk politics and it seemed like today's discussion really upset you, so I wanted to make sure you're ok."

We Jews have all been a little on edge since October 7. Plus, it's always difficult to be ambushed by people we thought were friends.

She was not ambushed. She just did not agree.

We have no idea what was actually said or why she got up and left. Maybe she knew the woman speaking and that she has said/posted openly antisemitic things before.

All we know is that the mom felt very uncomfortable at the conversation.

OP reaching out to learn more would be kind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am friends with a group from my sons school. We get together once a month for lunch or dinner.

So happens we went out for lunch today for our monthly get together. We are a real mix of personalities. Of the 8 of us, 2 are Jewish the rest are mixed religions. We all never bring up politics or religion as an unspoken rule however today the most outspoken of the bunch came out and blasted Israel for what they are doing. She really unloaded, once she got started, she didn't let up (with encouragement from others). We were all kind of surprised and in shock at first. One of the moms (Jewish) is married to a christian husband and is not religious and was one of the first to agree. Then a few others did too. The other Jewish mom however did not take this well. She started to defend whats going on then abruptly got up and said she had to leave early.

Of all the moms, shes the one I am the least close with but I feel badly for how it went. I want to call her just to see how shes doing because I know it was upsetting to her. Not to say I agree with her at all but shes human and no doubt felt really outnumbered as the "ringleader" came on really strong. Should I call or leave it alone?

It sounds like she's uncomfortable with truth. It might be time for her to wake up to reality, even if it's uncomfortable. It doesn't sound like she was targeted or blamed because she's Jewish (and she should absolutely not be), but ethically, walking away when you feel uncomfortable is a bit childish. There are so many Jews of conscience who abhor what Israel is doing - this isn't a religious thing, it's a political litmus test.

And there are also many Jews of conscience who have faced “casual antisemitism” many times. Maybe this mom had just had her fill of it and didn’t want to wait to see how it would unfold. Maybe she didn’t want to hear uneducated and un nuanced takes on “Zionists.” Maybe her cousin was killed on 10/7 and the mom was ranting about how all the 10/7 deaths were by the IDF.

if there is one thing being on DCUM has showed me, it is that there is indeed a very easily line to slip over into antisemitism when discussing Israel. I know because I am constantly flagging it so you don’t have to see it. Many progressives quite easily start to talk about “the Jews” in ways that are hard to stomach.

There is zero evidence that the mom who left has some sort of hard line view about Gaza and Israel. the much better inference is that the conversation was too close to the line for her so she left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Jewish American here and I would absolutely appreciate a call or text to check in. Something like, "Hey, I wanted to check in after our lunch. I know we don't usually talk politics and it seemed like today's discussion really upset you, so I wanted to make sure you're ok."

We Jews have all been a little on edge since October 7. Plus, it's always difficult to be ambushed by people we thought were friends.

Totally agree with this as a Jewish American.

I think you are trolls. I have never heard anyone describe themselves as “Jewish American.”

[Anonymous]

OP - you realize this friend group is done, right?

But also, the original mom has no idea how to behave properly. Unless you are truly truly truly close friends, and not a bunch of moms who casually hang out, it’s the rule not to discuss truly sensitive and inflammatory topics, whether it’s Israel, domestic politics, abortion rights, religious arguments, what Russia is doing etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Jewish American here and I would absolutely appreciate a call or text to check in. Something like, "Hey, I wanted to check in after our lunch. I know we don't usually talk politics and it seemed like today's discussion really upset you, so I wanted to make sure you're ok."

We Jews have all been a little on edge since October 7. Plus, it's always difficult to be ambushed by people we thought were friends.

She was not ambushed. She just did not agree.

We have no idea what was actually said or why she got up and left. Maybe she knew the woman speaking and that she has said/posted openly antisemitic things before.

All we know is that the mom felt very uncomfortable at the conversation.

OP reaching out to learn more would be kind.

I agree with this. I don''t have strong feelings about the issue at hand, but feel for the woman who walked out and the woman who wants to be kind to her. Kindness is always a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - you realize this friend group is done, right?

But also, the original mom has no idea how to behave properly. Unless you are truly truly truly close friends, and not a bunch of moms who casually hang out, it’s the rule not to discuss truly sensitive and inflammatory topics, whether it’s Israel, domestic politics, abortion rights, religious arguments, what Russia is doing etc.

Especially in light of the over the top ways people can express themselves to prove themselves allies. remember when the Russian invasion started and people were canceling Tchaikovsky and acting shocked that kids would study Russian in school here? I do!

[Anonymous]

Why is this thread on the Religion forum? It belongs on either the politics forum or the relationship forum. It has nothing to do with religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Jewish American here and I would absolutely appreciate a call or text to check in. Something like, "Hey, I wanted to check in after our lunch. I know we don't usually talk politics and it seemed like today's discussion really upset you, so I wanted to make sure you're ok."

We Jews have all been a little on edge since October 7. Plus, it's always difficult to be ambushed by people we thought were friends.

Totally agree with this as a Jewish American.

I think you are trolls. I have never heard anyone describe themselves as “Jewish American.”

I’m not a troll. I identified that way to make it clear I’m not Israeli, but am Jewish. I used the other poster’s nomenclature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Jewish American here and I would absolutely appreciate a call or text to check in. Something like, "Hey, I wanted to check in after our lunch. I know we don't usually talk politics and it seemed like today's discussion really upset you, so I wanted to make sure you're ok."

We Jews have all been a little on edge since October 7. Plus, it's always difficult to be ambushed by people we thought were friends.

Totally agree with this as a Jewish American.

I think you are trolls. I have never heard anyone describe themselves as “Jewish American.”

I’m not a troll. I identified that way to make it clear I’m not Israeli, but am Jewish. I used the other poster’s nomenclature.

Why would you feel the need to clarify you are not Israeli? Nobody thinks Israelis are posting here. I think you are trolling.