Struggling junior & SAT wake-up call

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got something like a 1130 and just applied TO everywhere. I think his gpa when he applied to college was a 3.1. He got in everywhere with merit aid. Apply smartly and your kid will do fine.

What colleges?

Drexel, UMBC, Seton Hall, Loyola MD, St Joe’s, Manhattan, Duquesne, LaSalle, St Mary’s, Scranton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has disaster written all over it. Does he actually WANT to go away to a 4 year college/university? It doesn’t sound like he’s prepared or motivated at all. Which is fine, but now you all have to be realistic. A kid who goes off to college after being pushed and monitored by his parents isn’t going to do well, and they’ll probably end up back at home after freshman year with a 1.8 GPA, burned out and upset.

I would look at your local community college for some programs where he can transition right away into work after finishing. Something like the HVAC repair program, auto body tech or collision repair, or horticulture/landscaping. If you think he might be able to handle a 4 year college maybe in his mid-20s+ when he has more maturity, he could try one of the CC health programs and then have the goal of eventually getting a BS in Nursing.

Also has he looked into the military?

I agree this has the signs of a reckoning coming.

I have people in my life who were smart enough for college but dropped out/flunked out.

Also for three years recently, I was supervised by a guy who worked construction and was a fast food manager before going back to a college you will have never heard of for engineering. It's thought of kind of like Towson by people where I am. So he made more money and supervised me, even though I am a National Merit Finalist/Phi Beta Kappa/top-ranked in undergrad/full scholarship to Top 20 MBA. And believe me, that's not the only example in my life right now where the "C students are managing the A students".

I think your kid doesn't like school (my youngest doesn't either). There's a lot not to like these days. It's not school as we knew it in parent times.

The pressure you are applying is likely having the opposite effect of what you want. Honestly, failing in high school just doesn't feel that bad. Also, re: SAT prep...as a high schooler, studying on my own, I was not able to raise my math SAT by 20 points on my own. I tried and wanted to do it but across 3 tries I couldn’t. I wanted to move 20 points on math to get a scholarship and didn't get there because I didn't really master the material. For grad school I was able to move my score a lot with self-study, so I believe it can be done, but it takes a lot of work and personal insight from the test taker.

I suggest you drop the rope and the SAT tutoring. Ask your kid if he'd like to do something like a gap year or two or go to community college first.

My kid is excited by robotics team and the prospect of co-op-ing. He considered a 3 year vo-technical high school to associates degree path but rejected it because it's "1 year more to graduate". His grades and SATs are good enough for a flagship but he's not excited to go and his school has grade inflation so I worry about him flunking out of engineering. He also talked about plumbing and other trades work and I bought him a book on plumbing for Christmas and he hasn't touched it.

I'm in a bit of a stalemate with my kid too.

The thing I keep thinking about is the Dilbert strip where the Boss says "Pressure makes diamonds." and Dilbert says "'Pressure makes garbage more compact". I think you need to figure out a way to make diamonds. I don't think summer SAT prep is going to work to turn the motivation around. I wouldn't overspend on it.

[Anonymous]

Let's learn more about the 3.1 gpa? What math will he end with? How many years of foreign language? Is the 3.1 weighted or unweighted? It's not that hard to graduate high school and go to a 4 year college, somewhere. And graduate. I agree test optional may be needed.

[Anonymous]

I’m one of the PP with the junior and some of the trade programs have open houses. When my son mentioned an interest, I did the research and found an open house and we went. It was the first time I saw him excited about post secondary options because the program was hands on and didn’t feel like school. In his words, he said he felt like he could relate to the people who were there more than the ones at his HS. My son has close to a 4.0 UW and could apply to traditional colleges but hates the thought of sitting in a traditional class a second longer than he has to. He hasn’t and won’t take the SATs.

I would research some open houses and see if your son is willing to go with you, just to see if they spark an interest.

[Anonymous]

His recent SAT score was under 1000, but the real issue is that he didn’t prepare at all. He went into it cold, even though we had discussed a plan and offered support to help him study. Spring grades are also slipping, and his 3.1 GPA is at risk.

After the SAT, my husband and I had a hard but necessary conversation with him. We’ve decided to give him one more shot this summer. He’ll be enrolled in a structured, expensive SAT prep program, and our expectations are clear: he needs to put in real effort, at least 2 hours a day of studying, 5 days a week, and complete weekly practice tests after the course ends. If we see meaningful effort and improvement, we’ll continue supporting a 4-year college path. If not, we’ll be redirecting him toward community college.

Does he have ADHD? If so, unfortunately, I don't think your original plan that he would structure studying for the SAT himself was realistic. It didn't have to be a class, but you probably had to establish specific times he needed to prepare, and specific things he needed to get covered in that time, and enforce it.

As for a 4 year college, my son attends Mason and lives with us. He is enrolled in their executive functioning program. His grades are fine (mostly Bs, a few As, and he had one C). If he can show improvement in managing his work and increasing his maturity, we will then be willing to pay for him to live on campus. But he definitely will and can get a 4 year degree.

[Anonymous]

OP, I don't have experience with this exact issue, but my HS sophomore son is a very strong willed child and really wants to do well in school. BUT he will melt down when there is a lot of studying and IMO is just not quite mature enough to manage his time effectively yet or to reach his academic goals for himself. I often step in, push and get very anxious about him tanking his grades etc. This creates more trouble, more stress and usually gives me the opposite result of what I want because at that point my kid is not only stressed and procrastinating but also angry. 

In your shoes I agree about dropping the SAT prep. Most schools that aren't highly competitive are not asking for test scores. I would push a little and focus on finishing the school year strong. Maybe a bribe even, just to get him through. Then over the summer let him forge his own path. Let him know you trust him and even if it makes you crazy see what he does when left to his own devices. Talk to him about his ideal career and explain that college requires work if that's what he wants. My son does so much better when he feels trusted and in control. Can I trust him to not mess up? Nope. But his mind set and study ethic are ultimately better when the decisions are his own. 

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid got something like a 1130 and just applied TO everywhere. I think his gpa when he applied to college was a 3.1. He got in everywhere with merit aid. Apply smartly and your kid will do fine.

What colleges?

DP. With your kid’s GPA, the schools he is applying to will ALL be test optional unless they are in Florida. And everything you have written about your child, indicates he won’t get a score that is going to move the needle on admissions. His time would be best used talking a class (get that GPA up - most important) or doing a meaningful extracurricular. I am a parent of a junior and I am confident that this is 100% the best way to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's learn more about the 3.1 gpa? What math will he end with? How many years of foreign language? Is the 3.1 weighted or unweighted? It's not that hard to graduate high school and go to a 4 year college, somewhere. And graduate. I agree test optional may be needed.

He will graduate with geometry/trig. He's currently in algebra 2. He won't have physics and will only have 2 years of a foreign language. Not sure if that's his weighted or unweighted, but he's only taken 2 honors classes in the 3 years and won't be taking any next year. He doesn't challenge himself and can barely get Bs and Cs in his standard classes because he doesn't turn things in and doesn't care. He is very much interested in a 4 year, but at this point we don't want to waste his time and our money supporting one if he isn't ready. We value all of the life skills and experience you get at a 4 year, but at this point if he doesn't turn things around and start working towards his goals, we're not supporting a free ride for him to backslide and fail in the first year.

[Anonymous]

Forget the SATs. Why are his grades low? Forgetting to hand in work? Poor test scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate that I'm even writing this, but we’re at a crossroads with our DS (11th grade) and I’m hoping for some honest advice from parents who’ve been through similar struggles.

Over the past 2.5 years, it’s been clear to us that DS would need significant support to be ready for college, especially in terms of maturity, motivation, and work ethic. We’ve invested heavily in tutoring, school supports, and encouragement, but things haven’t improved the way we hoped. His academic performance has steadily declined, and we’ve seen signs of depression and general disengagement from anything school-related. Despite numerous college visits and conversations, he still doesn’t seem to grasp what it takes to get into and succeed in college.

His recent SAT score was under 1000, but the real issue is that he didn’t prepare at all. He went into it cold, even though we had discussed a plan and offered support to help him study. Spring grades are also slipping, and his 3.1 GPA is at risk.

After the SAT, my husband and I had a hard but necessary conversation with him. We’ve decided to give him one more shot this summer. He’ll be enrolled in a structured, expensive SAT prep program, and our expectations are clear: he needs to put in real effort, at least 2 hours a day of studying, 5 days a week, and complete weekly practice tests after the course ends. If we see meaningful effort and improvement, we’ll continue supporting a 4-year college path. If not, we’ll be redirecting him toward community college.

It’s about readiness. He has a long pattern of minimal effort and telling himself (and us) he’s doing more than he really is. He doesn’t put sustained time into anything, whether it’s academics, sports, or hobbies, unless it’s video games. We’re deeply concerned that he’s not ready for the independence or structure of a 4-year school. We don’t want to fund four years of struggle and failure if he’s not in the right mindset.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? What helped your teen turn things around, if they did?

OP, it sounds like you're doubling down on a strategy that isn't working. Rethink what's really going on. What does HE want? What motivates HIM? It sounds like you're parenting a generic kid or a kid who's an extension of yourselves. He's not that, otherwise the carrots and sticks you're currently employing would be having the impact you hope for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's learn more about the 3.1 gpa? What math will he end with? How many years of foreign language? Is the 3.1 weighted or unweighted? It's not that hard to graduate high school and go to a 4 year college, somewhere. And graduate. I agree test optional may be needed.

He will graduate with geometry/trig. He's currently in algebra 2. He won't have physics and will only have 2 years of a foreign language. Not sure if that's his weighted or unweighted, but he's only taken 2 honors classes in the 3 years and won't be taking any next year. He doesn't challenge himself and can barely get Bs and Cs in his standard classes because he doesn't turn things in and doesn't care. He is very much interested in a 4 year, but at this point we don't want to waste his time and our money supporting one if he isn't ready. We value all of the life skills and experience you get at a 4 year, but at this point if he doesn't turn things around and start working towards his goals, we're not supporting a free ride for him to backslide and fail in the first year.

Have you talked to his counselor? I’m not trying to be mean or discourage you, but his profile points to community college (and I never say this).

He lacks basic rigor and his GPA should be much better for the classes he is taking. Not to mention that colleges are looking for increased rigor as students hit senior year. It is red flag that his rigor has decreased.

DO NOT waste his time on SAT prep. You need to fix the GPA and rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forget the SATs. Why are his grades low? Forgetting to hand in work? Poor test scores?

All of it. Again, zero effort has been put forth. We've been working with him closely since 9th grade on grades, executive functioning etc. And as far as TO goes, with a 3.1 or 3.0, schools like GM, York college, Robert Morris or Marshall are not safety's. Even if he gets in to those, he'll do poorly or give up with his drive. Whether its academics or athletics, he thinks he can just show up and be successful. He doesn't practice and doesn't even conceptually understand what hard work and dedicated practice is despite our multiple attempts at showing him a path and providing him with examples. We've had the neuropsych test, we've done the extensive tutoring, we've pushed therapy and meds. We've let him get a job, play football. We've restricted the job, and football. We've tried it all at this point and it's not clicking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's learn more about the 3.1 gpa? What math will he end with? How many years of foreign language? Is the 3.1 weighted or unweighted? It's not that hard to graduate high school and go to a 4 year college, somewhere. And graduate. I agree test optional may be needed.

He will graduate with geometry/trig. He's currently in algebra 2. He won't have physics and will only have 2 years of a foreign language. Not sure if that's his weighted or unweighted, but he's only taken 2 honors classes in the 3 years and won't be taking any next year. He doesn't challenge himself and can barely get Bs and Cs in his standard classes because he doesn't turn things in and doesn't care. He is very much interested in a 4 year, but at this point we don't want to waste his time and our money supporting one if he isn't ready. We value all of the life skills and experience you get at a 4 year, but at this point if he doesn't turn things around and start working towards his goals, we're not supporting a free ride for him to backslide and fail in the first year.

Have you talked to his counselor? I’m not trying to be mean or discourage you, but his profile points to community college (and I never say this).

He lacks basic rigor and his GPA should be much better for the classes he is taking. Not to mention that colleges are looking for increased rigor as students hit senior year. It is red flag that his rigor has decreased.

DO NOT waste his time on SAT prep. You need to fix the GPA and rigor.

I agree about his student profile. This year was the last year for him to prove he could get good grades and while 1st semester was good, this second semester slid backwards. He should be getting As and Bs with his eyes closed in the types of classes he's in. The counselor is absolutely useless...utterly useless. A private counselor might be something to consider, but we need to see effort in other categories first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget the SATs. Why are his grades low? Forgetting to hand in work? Poor test scores?

All of it. Again, zero effort has been put forth. We've been working with him closely since 9th grade on grades, executive functioning etc. And as far as TO goes, with a 3.1 or 3.0, schools like GM, York college, Robert Morris or Marshall are not safety's. Even if he gets in to those, he'll do poorly or give up with his drive. Whether its academics or athletics, he thinks he can just show up and be successful. He doesn't practice and doesn't even conceptually understand what hard work and dedicated practice is despite our multiple attempts at showing him a path and providing him with examples. We've had the neuropsych test, we've done the extensive tutoring, we've pushed therapy and meds. We've let him get a job, play football. We've restricted the job, and football. We've tried it all at this point and it's not clicking.

Then he needs to graduate and get a FT job. After a year if he decides he wants to try college he can take a course or two at CC. You’ve done more than enough. But don’t make life easy for him by letting him live at home for free. He needs to contribute and see how $$$ life actually is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's learn more about the 3.1 gpa? What math will he end with? How many years of foreign language? Is the 3.1 weighted or unweighted? It's not that hard to graduate high school and go to a 4 year college, somewhere. And graduate. I agree test optional may be needed.

He will graduate with geometry/trig. He's currently in algebra 2. He won't have physics and will only have 2 years of a foreign language. Not sure if that's his weighted or unweighted, but he's only taken 2 honors classes in the 3 years and won't be taking any next year. He doesn't challenge himself and can barely get Bs and Cs in his standard classes because he doesn't turn things in and doesn't care. He is very much interested in a 4 year, but at this point we don't want to waste his time and our money supporting one if he isn't ready. We value all of the life skills and experience you get at a 4 year, but at this point if he doesn't turn things around and start working towards his goals, we're not supporting a free ride for him to backslide and fail in the first year.

*Why* is he interested in a 4 year? You said engineering but based on course load that doesn’t make sense. It seems like he doesn’t know what he wants but is just being dragged along the usual path. He doesn’t study, doesn’t challenge himself, doesn’t put it in effort - what life skill do you think he’s going to get?