Those of you with kids in both AAP and gen ed...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it divides the kids. It divides them socially. It divides them academically. It affect their friendships, and how they view themselves academically. In most cases, this division is based on rather infinitesimal differences. The students could be educated in the same classroom. And should be. NP here.

+1,000,000
There are rare cases - on both ends of the spectrum - where kids might need a special learning environment. The vast majority do not. Enough of this crazy segregation. Just improve the curriculum for ALL kids.

It’s not just the learning environment, it’s the pace of the program. Class sizes in FCPS are too large to successfully differentiate teaching for such a wide range if you were to do away with AAP. We have tryouts and special teams in our sports around here based on athletic ability but somehow it’s wrong to recognize this exists in academics as well? My child also finally found similarly quirky kids who process the world similarly and the improvement in his social success in this learning environment has been life-changing.

Same. If the program ends we will have to leave FCPS.

Not everyone has the option of private unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it divides the kids. It divides them socially. It divides them academically. It affect their friendships, and how they view themselves academically. In most cases, this division is based on rather infinitesimal differences. The students could be educated in the same classroom. And should be. NP here.

+1,000,000
There are rare cases - on both ends of the spectrum - where kids might need a special learning environment. The vast majority do not. Enough of this crazy segregation. Just improve the curriculum for ALL kids.

Guess what? The vast majority of kids are NOT in AAP. So there you go. It’s fine.

depending on the school, just under half are.

This makes no sense. Yes if you’re looking at a dedicated center, half of the classes might be level 4, for obvious reasons. Local level 4 definitely not. At my kid’s base, which is a center, only four or five kids from the base are in the full time level 4 program?

If you’re talking about level 3 pull outs, then it makes more sense.

I'm at a local, between committee placed and principal placed, it's either 1/3 or 1/4 depending on how many classes at a given grade level

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it divides the kids. It divides them socially. It divides them academically. It affect their friendships, and how they view themselves academically. In most cases, this division is based on rather infinitesimal differences. The students could be educated in the same classroom. And should be. NP here.

+1,000,000
There are rare cases - on both ends of the spectrum - where kids might need a special learning environment. The vast majority do not. Enough of this crazy segregation. Just improve the curriculum for ALL kids.

Guess what? The vast majority of kids are NOT in AAP. So there you go. It’s fine.

depending on the school, just under half are.

Yep. At center schools, it’s practically 50/50. Very divisive. And for no reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it divides the kids. It divides them socially. It divides them academically. It affect their friendships, and how they view themselves academically. In most cases, this division is based on rather infinitesimal differences. The students could be educated in the same classroom. And should be. NP here.

+1,000,000
There are rare cases - on both ends of the spectrum - where kids might need a special learning environment. The vast majority do not. Enough of this crazy segregation. Just improve the curriculum for ALL kids.

It’s not just the learning environment, it’s the pace of the program. Class sizes in FCPS are too large to successfully differentiate teaching for such a wide range if you were to do away with AAP. We have tryouts and special teams in our sports around here based on athletic ability but somehow it’s wrong to recognize this exists in academics as well? My child also finally found similarly quirky kids who process the world similarly and the improvement in his social success in this learning environment has been life-changing.

I don't know of any sport that has tryouts U7 and sticks with those results through U14

That's how GT programs work in school districts all over the country. The way that FCPS implements their GT program is a bit different but overall it's pretty normal.

Correction: FCPS does not have a GT program. They used to, and it was excellent. But AAP is not a gifted program.
DP

[Anonymous]

I have a friend who has one child in AP. Their second child did not get in. It is absolutely crushing the family. The second child’s entire core of self-esteem and confidence has been obliterated and now they will be attending a different school than their sibling so it’s rubbed in on a daily basis. It’s really heartbreaking and makes me reconsider even desiring AAP in case it should it be some thing that only one of my kids got into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it divides the kids. It divides them socially. It divides them academically. It affect their friendships, and how they view themselves academically. In most cases, this division is based on rather infinitesimal differences. The students could be educated in the same classroom. And should be. NP here.

+1,000,000
There are rare cases - on both ends of the spectrum - where kids might need a special learning environment. The vast majority do not. Enough of this crazy segregation. Just improve the curriculum for ALL kids.

Guess what? The vast majority of kids are NOT in AAP. So there you go. It’s fine.

depending on the school, just under half are.

Yep. At center schools, it’s practically 50/50. Very divisive. And for no reason.

Teachers cannot provide the type of education that is needed to 4-5 groups of kids in their classroom. Kids who are advanced, whether that is because their parents read to them, played math games, and supplement or because they are bright or gifted, need to be challenged at school. Asking a Teacher to teach kids who are SPED, kids who are struggling, kids who are on grade level, and kids who are advanced when they have 25-30 kids in the classroom is inefficient. The kids who are advanced end up in reading groups/math groups that work solo and seldom work with the Teacher. Their needs are not met because they are going to pass exams and advance to the next grade with little help.

We wouldn't think of cutting SPED classes because the kids need those services, why would we cut AAP when there are kids who need those services. Or should we allow kids who are ahead of their classmates to be bored in a classroom and receive little instruction that challenges them?

Kids have options in Middle School and High School so that they can take classes that are more challenging while others take a class that is less in depth because that is a good fit for them. Elementary School kids do not have that choice. Why should kids who are ahead or advanced have to wait for Middle School be able to take classes that are interesting and challenging for them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it divides the kids. It divides them socially. It divides them academically. It affect their friendships, and how they view themselves academically. In most cases, this division is based on rather infinitesimal differences. The students could be educated in the same classroom. And should be. NP here.

+1,000,000
There are rare cases - on both ends of the spectrum - where kids might need a special learning environment. The vast majority do not. Enough of this crazy segregation. Just improve the curriculum for ALL kids.

Guess what? The vast majority of kids are NOT in AAP. So there you go. It’s fine.

depending on the school, just under half are.

Yep. At center schools, it’s practically 50/50. Very divisive. And for no reason.

Teachers cannot provide the type of education that is needed to 4-5 groups of kids in their classroom. Kids who are advanced, whether that is because their parents read to them, played math games, and supplement or because they are bright or gifted, need to be challenged at school. Asking a Teacher to teach kids who are SPED, kids who are struggling, kids who are on grade level, and kids who are advanced when they have 25-30 kids in the classroom is inefficient. The kids who are advanced end up in reading groups/math groups that work solo and seldom work with the Teacher. Their needs are not met because they are going to pass exams and advance to the next grade with little help.

We wouldn't think of cutting SPED classes because the kids need those services, why would we cut AAP when there are kids who need those services. Or should we allow kids who are ahead of their classmates to be bored in a classroom and receive little instruction that challenges them?

Kids have options in Middle School and High School so that they can take classes that are more challenging while others take a class that is less in depth because that is a good fit for them. Elementary School kids do not have that choice. Why should kids who are ahead or advanced have to wait for Middle School be able to take classes that are interesting and challenging for them?

then make aap a choice. Problem solved, no more complaint about admissions or appeals, no more bemoaning a lack of minorities. If a kid and their family want it, they request it and get it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who has one child in AP. Their second child did not get in. It is absolutely crushing the family. The second child’s entire core of self-esteem and confidence has been obliterated and now they will be attending a different school than their sibling so it’s rubbed in on a daily basis. It’s really heartbreaking and makes me reconsider even desiring AAP in case it should it be some thing that only one of my kids got into.

That is on the family for not handling the situation well and putting way too much emphasis on a specific program. Neither kids identity should be determined based on being in a specific academic program, especially in ES. There was no reason to ever tell the first one that the program made them special, only that it met their academic needs. There is no reason the the second to feel lesser because they have different needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it divides the kids. It divides them socially. It divides them academically. It affect their friendships, and how they view themselves academically. In most cases, this division is based on rather infinitesimal differences. The students could be educated in the same classroom. And should be. NP here.

+1,000,000
There are rare cases - on both ends of the spectrum - where kids might need a special learning environment. The vast majority do not. Enough of this crazy segregation. Just improve the curriculum for ALL kids.

Guess what? The vast majority of kids are NOT in AAP. So there you go. It’s fine.

depending on the school, just under half are.

Yep. At center schools, it’s practically 50/50. Very divisive. And for no reason.

Teachers cannot provide the type of education that is needed to 4-5 groups of kids in their classroom. Kids who are advanced, whether that is because their parents read to them, played math games, and supplement or because they are bright or gifted, need to be challenged at school. Asking a Teacher to teach kids who are SPED, kids who are struggling, kids who are on grade level, and kids who are advanced when they have 25-30 kids in the classroom is inefficient. The kids who are advanced end up in reading groups/math groups that work solo and seldom work with the Teacher. Their needs are not met because they are going to pass exams and advance to the next grade with little help.

We wouldn't think of cutting SPED classes because the kids need those services, why would we cut AAP when there are kids who need those services. Or should we allow kids who are ahead of their classmates to be bored in a classroom and receive little instruction that challenges them?

Kids have options in Middle School and High School so that they can take classes that are more challenging while others take a class that is less in depth because that is a good fit for them. Elementary School kids do not have that choice. Why should kids who are ahead or advanced have to wait for Middle School be able to take classes that are interesting and challenging for them?

then make aap a choice. Problem solved, no more complaint about admissions or appeals, no more bemoaning a lack of minorities. If a kid and their family want it, they request it and get it

Making AAP a choice w/ no academic criteria defeats the entire purpose of the program, which is to meet the needs of kids who are academically advanced and can’t get those needs met in the gened classroom. If you want to over-tutor and over-prep a child who would be better served in GenEd, then by all means go for it and they should eventually test in. If they don’t, keep on with your prep and appeals and then be sure to keep it up once they’re in - that’s your choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who has one child in AP. Their second child did not get in. It is absolutely crushing the family. The second child’s entire core of self-esteem and confidence has been obliterated and now they will be attending a different school than their sibling so it’s rubbed in on a daily basis. It’s really heartbreaking and makes me reconsider even desiring AAP in case it should it be some thing that only one of my kids got into.

That is on the family for not handling the situation well and putting way too much emphasis on a specific program. Neither kids identity should be determined based on being in a specific academic program, especially in ES. There was no reason to ever tell the first one that the program made them special, only that it met their academic needs. There is no reason the the second to feel lesser because they have different needs.

This exactly. My child knew nothing about the committee process or admissions. He knows he’s in AAP bc he learns differently than some peers but it doesn’t make him special or better than anyone else. Have we now surrendered all parental responsibility in framing the narrative of such things for our children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it divides the kids. It divides them socially. It divides them academically. It affect their friendships, and how they view themselves academically. In most cases, this division is based on rather infinitesimal differences. The students could be educated in the same classroom. And should be. NP here.

+1,000,000
There are rare cases - on both ends of the spectrum - where kids might need a special learning environment. The vast majority do not. Enough of this crazy segregation. Just improve the curriculum for ALL kids.

Guess what? The vast majority of kids are NOT in AAP. So there you go. It’s fine.

depending on the school, just under half are.

Yep. At center schools, it’s practically 50/50. Very divisive. And for no reason.

Teachers cannot provide the type of education that is needed to 4-5 groups of kids in their classroom. Kids who are advanced, whether that is because their parents read to them, played math games, and supplement or because they are bright or gifted, need to be challenged at school. Asking a Teacher to teach kids who are SPED, kids who are struggling, kids who are on grade level, and kids who are advanced when they have 25-30 kids in the classroom is inefficient. The kids who are advanced end up in reading groups/math groups that work solo and seldom work with the Teacher. Their needs are not met because they are going to pass exams and advance to the next grade with little help.

We wouldn't think of cutting SPED classes because the kids need those services, why would we cut AAP when there are kids who need those services. Or should we allow kids who are ahead of their classmates to be bored in a classroom and receive little instruction that challenges them?

Kids have options in Middle School and High School so that they can take classes that are more challenging while others take a class that is less in depth because that is a good fit for them. Elementary School kids do not have that choice. Why should kids who are ahead or advanced have to wait for Middle School be able to take classes that are interesting and challenging for them?

then make aap a choice. Problem solved, no more complaint about admissions or appeals, no more bemoaning a lack of minorities. If a kid and their family want it, they request it and get it

I am fine with making AAP a choice if parents will accept the Teachers decision to remove their kid from the class. I don't think AAP should be a guarantee, I think that there are kids who should be moved out of the class. I would love to see that change so it is easier to move kids in who need AAP and move kids out who are struggling. And by struggling I mean 1s and 2s.

I don't want to see kids pushed into AAP and then slow the class down because the Teachers feel like they cannot remove a kid who doesn't belong in that class. I don't want to see Teachers not Teaching the entire curriculum because there are kids who are struggling. And I just don't see parents accepting that the Teacher doesn't see their kid as doing well in the class.

We are not wed to AAP as the end all and be all, DS placement has been deferred because he is in a language immersion program and we love that program for him. The language immersion, combined with Advanced Math and Level III pull outs, meet his needs. We have seen kids drop out of the language but I know Parents who were counseled that their kid was not doing well in the language and it was recommended that they drop out but the parents bristled and the kid is still in the language. THey are now struggling in math and science and the language. Why? Because the parents don't want their kid in Gen Ed, and we are at a good ES. I can see the same issues with AAP if it was not based on selection.

Perhaps the better option is an annual review of each kid in the class and kids removed and added based on their current needs.

[Anonymous]

They should make the selection process more transparent. It is crazy how many high scoring kids do not get, how much parents prep, that the appeal process in itself means being savvy about the system, etc. It's not fair to the kids whose parents don't know the system. I am not sure what the answer is to this issue. But until then, parents will complain. I don't blame them. So many on the cusp who do no get in even after appeals. It's completely subjective right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who has one child in AP. Their second child did not get in. It is absolutely crushing the family. The second child’s entire core of self-esteem and confidence has been obliterated and now they will be attending a different school than their sibling so it’s rubbed in on a daily basis. It’s really heartbreaking and makes me reconsider even desiring AAP in case it should it be some thing that only one of my kids got into.

That is on the family for not handling the situation well and putting way too much emphasis on a specific program. Neither kids identity should be determined based on being in a specific academic program, especially in ES. There was no reason to ever tell the first one that the program made them special, only that it met their academic needs. There is no reason the the second to feel lesser because they have different needs.

This exactly. My child knew nothing about the committee process or admissions. He knows he’s in AAP bc he learns differently than some peers but it doesn’t make him special or better than anyone else. Have we now surrendered all parental responsibility in framing the narrative of such things for our children?

Not PP but it's become so bad though that the kids talk about it. Not sure if they get it from parents? teachers? both? In our school, it's a topic. Between ged ed and AAP ("the advanced class") and then also between our school (a lower rated school with local level IV) and "the center." I never mentioned anything about AAP to my kid and one day she came home talking about how she was in the advanced class. It's silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who has one child in AP. Their second child did not get in. It is absolutely crushing the family. The second child’s entire core of self-esteem and confidence has been obliterated and now they will be attending a different school than their sibling so it’s rubbed in on a daily basis. It’s really heartbreaking and makes me reconsider even desiring AAP in case it should it be some thing that only one of my kids got into.

Yes. Even if your kids both attend a center school, if one gets in but the other doesn’t, it’s very painful for the one who doesn’t. Of course, parents with AAP kids will claim that’s nonsense, and that everyone is just so happy and “right where they belong,” blah blah blah. Unless you’ve had a child in that situation, you simply don’t know. Had we known what center schools are really like , we would *never* have moved to neighborhood where the “community” school was a center. Hindsight is certainly 20/20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because it divides the kids. It divides them socially. It divides them academically. It affect their friendships, and how they view themselves academically. In most cases, this division is based on rather infinitesimal differences. The students could be educated in the same classroom. And should be. NP here.

+100
Too bad the GT program, for truly gifted kids, doesn’t exist anymore. No one ever questioned who should be in that program. AAP is just a faster paced curriculum which most kids could do.