Those of you with kids in both AAP and gen ed...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most families could care less about AAP. Most kids do well in ES, regardless of where they are placed. There is a vocal minority that thinks it is a huge problem.

Kids have always known who is in what group. We didn't have an AAP equivalent at my ES but kids knew that the kids being pulled form class needed help and we all knew who was in the top group for math and reading. My friends kids in higher grades can tell you who is in Advanced Math and Level III because those kids are grouped together in one class and are pulled out together. I have friends whose kids do not like going to Speech Therapy because their classmates know that they are pulled out for Speech, they know the Teacher who comes to get them. My kid is pulled with theirs so we talk about how it is going.

It doesn't matter how the program is run, the kids figure out the groupings and what they mean. Why? I have no clue, I am going to guess human nature. We seem to like to understand the social dynamics that we live in and want to understand the groupings.

It is the parents job to help kids understand that it doesn't matter what group you are in, what matters is the effort that you make and your doing your best.

It sure sounds like a good number of parents on this board buy into these divides being socially important and model that for their kids.

You’re right of course. And if a general ed classroom is not differentiated enough to provide challenges for a student? It is infuriating to watch a child waste the bulk of their prime learning years, at school. Pretending that 30 kids can be served by one teacher in one classroom without anyone knowing who is going faster than others is a pipe dream. If classes were capped at 10 students, sure, no problem—assuming the teachers were qualified enough. If we did away with AAP and had very small classes I’d be totally fine with it. Not the reality, not happening.

Small classes are the key to real teacher differentiation. Wish FCPS would invest more in this (more teachers, smaller classes) than in all these specialized "pull outs" and special programs. Then all kids could get what they need, at whatever level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why? Because there is no Advanced Language Art equivalent and parents who have kids that are strong in Language Arts don't think that Level III pull outs are enough. Those parents might choose to parent refer, even though their kid is on grade level in math.

Or there is a kid who is in-pool based on test scores and is not big into math. They are doing well in Gen Ed math, maybe they are a bit ahead, and end up accepted into AAP. Still, math is not their thing and they are not interested enough to keep on top of the accelerated math.

DS is in Advanced Math. We received no less than 4 emails from school about Advanced Math this year. The first was that they would be evaluating kids for inclusion in Advanced Math and that parents should be aware that the class would move far more quickly and that there would be homework. Kids needed to be focused and prepared to do extra work in order to do well in the class. If you are interested in Advanced Math, please make sure the school knows. The other three emails stressed the speed, extra work, and kids being focused when they sent home that DS had been selected, the letter that we had to sign approving his inclusion. And a reminder that Advanced Math would be starting.

I do not remember receiving any such information about AAP when DS was accepted last year. We received the letter and were given two weeks to make a decision. It was a weird year because of COVID so there were no open houses and no one talked about what to expect if your child joined AAP. We did email his Teachers and ask for their pros and cons because they knew DS as a student better then we did and we valued their opinion. But no one from the Center school or even our own AART explained what AAP really entailed and how it was different.

There are kids who return to the base school from the Center. Sometimes it is because it was not a good fit socially and the kid was miserable. Sometimes because the school work proved to be too much and hte parents decided that the struggles were not worth it, the kid is better off at the base school.

So yeah, kids in AAP struggle with Math. Some struggle with LA. It is why they don't accept kids based solely on their test scores. A efw strong tests does not automatically equate to a kid needing to be in an advanced classroom.

I could see a parent of a kid who was strong in LA and Social Studies but doing fine in math not understanding what the faster paced math looked like. And I can see those kids struggling with the pace of the math in AAP.

All of what you just said is why there should be flexible groups for all subjects. There’s no need for one blanket program (AAP) when most kids are strong in certain subjects but not others. There should absolutely be an advanced language arts group - many GE kids are indeed advanced in LA and social studies, but not math (and vice-versa). It simply defies common sense to group all of these kids in an “advanced” program when many aren’t advanced across the board.

And please - no one pipe up with “well that’s why there’s Level III!” No. Level III is a joke, meant to appease parents who actually think their kids are receiving advanced instruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most families could care less about AAP. Most kids do well in ES, regardless of where they are placed. There is a vocal minority that thinks it is a huge problem.

Kids have always known who is in what group. We didn't have an AAP equivalent at my ES but kids knew that the kids being pulled form class needed help and we all knew who was in the top group for math and reading. My friends kids in higher grades can tell you who is in Advanced Math and Level III because those kids are grouped together in one class and are pulled out together. I have friends whose kids do not like going to Speech Therapy because their classmates know that they are pulled out for Speech, they know the Teacher who comes to get them. My kid is pulled with theirs so we talk about how it is going.

It doesn't matter how the program is run, the kids figure out the groupings and what they mean. Why? I have no clue, I am going to guess human nature. We seem to like to understand the social dynamics that we live in and want to understand the groupings.

It is the parents job to help kids understand that it doesn't matter what group you are in, what matters is the effort that you make and your doing your best.

It sure sounds like a good number of parents on this board buy into these divides being socially important and model that for their kids.

You’re right of course. And if a general ed classroom is not differentiated enough to provide challenges for a student? It is infuriating to watch a child waste the bulk of their prime learning years, at school. Pretending that 30 kids can be served by one teacher in one classroom without anyone knowing who is going faster than others is a pipe dream. If classes were capped at 10 students, sure, no problem—assuming the teachers were qualified enough. If we did away with AAP and had very small classes I’d be totally fine with it. Not the reality, not happening.

Small classes are the key to real teacher differentiation. Wish FCPS would invest more in this (more teachers, smaller classes) than in all these specialized "pull outs" and special programs. Then all kids could get what they need, at whatever level.

+1
I remember when my kids received “pullouts” for Socratic Seminar. What a joke. I saw some of the worksheets they brought home and they were just so absurd. AND they had to miss actual class instruction in other subjects to go to SS. We declined Level III the following year. The enrichment we gave them at home far surpassed any “enrichment” they received at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most families could care less about AAP. Most kids do well in ES, regardless of where they are placed. There is a vocal minority that thinks it is a huge problem.

Kids have always known who is in what group. We didn't have an AAP equivalent at my ES but kids knew that the kids being pulled form class needed help and we all knew who was in the top group for math and reading. My friends kids in higher grades can tell you who is in Advanced Math and Level III because those kids are grouped together in one class and are pulled out together. I have friends whose kids do not like going to Speech Therapy because their classmates know that they are pulled out for Speech, they know the Teacher who comes to get them. My kid is pulled with theirs so we talk about how it is going.

It doesn't matter how the program is run, the kids figure out the groupings and what they mean. Why? I have no clue, I am going to guess human nature. We seem to like to understand the social dynamics that we live in and want to understand the groupings.

It is the parents job to help kids understand that it doesn't matter what group you are in, what matters is the effort that you make and your doing your best.

It sure sounds like a good number of parents on this board buy into these divides being socially important and model that for their kids.

You’re right of course. And if a general ed classroom is not differentiated enough to provide challenges for a student? It is infuriating to watch a child waste the bulk of their prime learning years, at school. Pretending that 30 kids can be served by one teacher in one classroom without anyone knowing who is going faster than others is a pipe dream. If classes were capped at 10 students, sure, no problem—assuming the teachers were qualified enough. If we did away with AAP and had very small classes I’d be totally fine with it. Not the reality, not happening.

Small classes are the key to real teacher differentiation. Wish FCPS would invest more in this (more teachers, smaller classes) than in all these specialized "pull outs" and special programs. Then all kids could get what they need, at whatever level.

Again, pipe dream. They can barely staff the (large) classes we have.

So tracking it is. I’m fine with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most families could care less about AAP. Most kids do well in ES, regardless of where they are placed. There is a vocal minority that thinks it is a huge problem.

Kids have always known who is in what group. We didn't have an AAP equivalent at my ES but kids knew that the kids being pulled form class needed help and we all knew who was in the top group for math and reading. My friends kids in higher grades can tell you who is in Advanced Math and Level III because those kids are grouped together in one class and are pulled out together. I have friends whose kids do not like going to Speech Therapy because their classmates know that they are pulled out for Speech, they know the Teacher who comes to get them. My kid is pulled with theirs so we talk about how it is going.

It doesn't matter how the program is run, the kids figure out the groupings and what they mean. Why? I have no clue, I am going to guess human nature. We seem to like to understand the social dynamics that we live in and want to understand the groupings.

It is the parents job to help kids understand that it doesn't matter what group you are in, what matters is the effort that you make and your doing your best.

It sure sounds like a good number of parents on this board buy into these divides being socially important and model that for their kids.

You’re right of course. And if a general ed classroom is not differentiated enough to provide challenges for a student? It is infuriating to watch a child waste the bulk of their prime learning years, at school. Pretending that 30 kids can be served by one teacher in one classroom without anyone knowing who is going faster than others is a pipe dream. If classes were capped at 10 students, sure, no problem—assuming the teachers were qualified enough. If we did away with AAP and had very small classes I’d be totally fine with it. Not the reality, not happening.

Small classes are the key to real teacher differentiation. Wish FCPS would invest more in this (more teachers, smaller classes) than in all these specialized "pull outs" and special programs. Then all kids could get what they need, at whatever level.

+1
I remember when my kids received “pullouts” for Socratic Seminar. What a joke. I saw some of the worksheets they brought home and they were just so absurd. AND they had to miss actual class instruction in other subjects to go to SS. We declined Level III the following year. The enrichment we gave them at home far surpassed any “enrichment” they received at school.

The teacher pulled my son’s work on the Socratic seminar for his AAP packet. I actually thought his application of that lesson to show next level thinking in his write-up was pretty impressive. I had no idea he’d done that until I saw the final packet. There’s a method to the madness.