White Male Anger

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp that shared the story about my son and the school election (and the all female staff wearing Girlz Rul shirts)

I’m not trying to equate these micro aggressions with institutional racism. But when you’re an eight year old or nine-year-old or 10-year-old boy it does mean everything to him.

And while I have never had to explain to him that there are People That don’t like him simply based on the color of his skin, I did have to explain to him that they was somebody important in his life, his teacher, that didn’t want to see him succeed simply based off his gender. And to be frank that was a very difficult conversation. I’m not suggesting it as difficult conversations that people of color have to have. But it involved a lot of tears and to be honest I don’t think he understood why his teacher didn’t want to see him win simply because he was a boy. It was a hard lesson.

This isn’t a zero sum game. There can be institutional sexism in the schools and institutional racism in society

And yes, this was raised to the principal. The teacher never mentioned it or apologized.

That's awful. People seem to forget that you can have institutional racism and white men can have greater privilege in society overall but an individual child can be hurt by those who focus on promoting greater equality in society. It's not that child's fault that white men run corporations and government. There is a real crisis in how boys get turned off from school in the elementary years and that applies to boys of all colors. Certainly it is worse for Black and Hispanic boys but all would be helped if the schools thought about how all students could be supported as individuals.

I was also really frustrated by the lack of programs for boys, *all* boys, when my son was young. He was disinterested in school and needed opportunities to try out things that could spark an interest. We'd hear about an interesting weekend program but turns out it's just for girls or just for minority boys. Fortunately, we can afford to pay for camps and tutors so he did get what he needed but I can totally understand a low income white family getting really angry at the school system's decision that they don't really need to invest anything in white boys' success.

You weren't looking hard enough. If I saw a camp open to a certain segment of society, I could also find 10 more camps for the general population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp that shared the story about my son and the school election (and the all female staff wearing Girlz Rul shirts)

I’m not trying to equate these micro aggressions with institutional racism. But when you’re an eight year old or nine-year-old or 10-year-old boy it does mean everything to him.

And while I have never had to explain to him that there are People That don’t like him simply based on the color of his skin, I did have to explain to him that they was somebody important in his life, his teacher, that didn’t want to see him succeed simply based off his gender. And to be frank that was a very difficult conversation. I’m not suggesting it as difficult conversations that people of color have to have. But it involved a lot of tears and to be honest I don’t think he understood why his teacher didn’t want to see him win simply because he was a boy. It was a hard lesson.

This isn’t a zero sum game. There can be institutional sexism in the schools and institutional racism in society

And yes, this was raised to the principal. The teacher never mentioned it or apologized.

That's awful. People seem to forget that you can have institutional racism and white men can have greater privilege in society overall but an individual child can be hurt by those who focus on promoting greater equality in society. It's not that child's fault that white men run corporations and government. There is a real crisis in how boys get turned off from school in the elementary years and that applies to boys of all colors. Certainly it is worse for Black and Hispanic boys but all would be helped if the schools thought about how all students could be supported as individuals.

I was also really frustrated by the lack of programs for boys, *all* boys, when my son was young. He was disinterested in school and needed opportunities to try out things that could spark an interest. We'd hear about an interesting weekend program but turns out it's just for girls or just for minority boys. Fortunately, we can afford to pay for camps and tutors so he did get what he needed but I can totally understand a low income white family getting really angry at the school system's decision that they don't really need to invest anything in white boys' success.

You weren't looking hard enough. If I saw a camp open to a certain segment of society, I could also find 10 more camps for the general population.

+1 I find it hard to believe there's an elementary school or district out there where none of the programs are open for white boys to participate in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is where you lost me. Why should men who are alive today have to compete with historical statistics? The women and minorities alive now should be given the chance to succeed, as should the white men. No one is "owed" a position based on their historical representation... you weren't alive then to be wronged. Neither should a group be penalized based on their historical representation, as they weren't alive to benefit from that "privilege."

Tragedy undoubtedly happened throughout much of our country’s history. But my son wasn’t part of the problem. When did we start penalizing people for the sins of other people’s ancestors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp that shared the story about my son and the school election (and the all female staff wearing Girlz Rul shirts)

I’m not trying to equate these micro aggressions with institutional racism. But when you’re an eight year old or nine-year-old or 10-year-old boy it does mean everything to him.

And while I have never had to explain to him that there are People That don’t like him simply based on the color of his skin, I did have to explain to him that they was somebody important in his life, his teacher, that didn’t want to see him succeed simply based off his gender. And to be frank that was a very difficult conversation. I’m not suggesting it as difficult conversations that people of color have to have. But it involved a lot of tears and to be honest I don’t think he understood why his teacher didn’t want to see him win simply because he was a boy. It was a hard lesson.

This isn’t a zero sum game. There can be institutional sexism in the schools and institutional racism in society

And yes, this was raised to the principal. The teacher never mentioned it or apologized.

That's awful. People seem to forget that you can have institutional racism and white men can have greater privilege in society overall but an individual child can be hurt by those who focus on promoting greater equality in society. It's not that child's fault that white men run corporations and government. There is a real crisis in how boys get turned off from school in the elementary years and that applies to boys of all colors. Certainly it is worse for Black and Hispanic boys but all would be helped if the schools thought about how all students could be supported as individuals.

I was also really frustrated by the lack of programs for boys, *all* boys, when my son was young. He was disinterested in school and needed opportunities to try out things that could spark an interest. We'd hear about an interesting weekend program but turns out it's just for girls or just for minority boys. Fortunately, we can afford to pay for camps and tutors so he did get what he needed but I can totally understand a low income white family getting really angry at the school system's decision that they don't really need to invest anything in white boys' success.

You weren't looking hard enough. If I saw a camp open to a certain segment of society, I could also find 10 more camps for the general population.

+1 I find it hard to believe there's an elementary school or district out there where none of the programs are open for white boys to participate in.

Certainly there were programs he could participate in - because we could and did pay for them. My concern was that the free programs were largely excluding white boys so I can see why that would add to the anger of low-income whites who start to feel that the world is against them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp that shared the story about my son and the school election (and the all female staff wearing Girlz Rul shirts)

I’m not trying to equate these micro aggressions with institutional racism. But when you’re an eight year old or nine-year-old or 10-year-old boy it does mean everything to him.

And while I have never had to explain to him that there are People That don’t like him simply based on the color of his skin, I did have to explain to him that they was somebody important in his life, his teacher, that didn’t want to see him succeed simply based off his gender. And to be frank that was a very difficult conversation. I’m not suggesting it as difficult conversations that people of color have to have. But it involved a lot of tears and to be honest I don’t think he understood why his teacher didn’t want to see him win simply because he was a boy. It was a hard lesson.

This isn’t a zero sum game. There can be institutional sexism in the schools and institutional racism in society

And yes, this was raised to the principal. The teacher never mentioned it or apologized.

That's awful. People seem to forget that you can have institutional racism and white men can have greater privilege in society overall but an individual child can be hurt by those who focus on promoting greater equality in society. It's not that child's fault that white men run corporations and government. There is a real crisis in how boys get turned off from school in the elementary years and that applies to boys of all colors. Certainly it is worse for Black and Hispanic boys but all would be helped if the schools thought about how all students could be supported as individuals.

I was also really frustrated by the lack of programs for boys, *all* boys, when my son was young. He was disinterested in school and needed opportunities to try out things that could spark an interest. We'd hear about an interesting weekend program but turns out it's just for girls or just for minority boys. Fortunately, we can afford to pay for camps and tutors so he did get what he needed but I can totally understand a low income white family getting really angry at the school system's decision that they don't really need to invest anything in white boys' success.

You weren't looking hard enough. If I saw a camp open to a certain segment of society, I could also find 10 more camps for the general population.

+1 I find it hard to believe there's an elementary school or district out there where none of the programs are open for white boys to participate in.

Certainly there were programs he could participate in - because we could and did pay for them. My concern was that the free programs were largely excluding white boys so I can see why that would add to the anger of low-income whites who start to feel that the world is against them.

I don't think it's only low-income white males that we are talking about in this thread about white male anger.
In fact doesn't OP specifically mention that they are a UMC white family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pp that shared the story about my son and the school election (and the all female staff wearing Girlz Rul shirts)

I’m not trying to equate these micro aggressions with institutional racism. But when you’re an eight year old or nine-year-old or 10-year-old boy it does mean everything to him.

And while I have never had to explain to him that there are People That don’t like him simply based on the color of his skin, I did have to explain to him that they was somebody important in his life, his teacher, that didn’t want to see him succeed simply based off his gender. And to be frank that was a very difficult conversation. I’m not suggesting it as difficult conversations that people of color have to have. But it involved a lot of tears and to be honest I don’t think he understood why his teacher didn’t want to see him win simply because he was a boy. It was a hard lesson.

This isn’t a zero sum game. There can be institutional sexism in the schools and institutional racism in society

And yes, this was raised to the principal. The teacher never mentioned it or apologized.

Np. The teacher was wrong and should have remained neutral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp that shared the story about my son and the school election (and the all female staff wearing Girlz Rul shirts)

I’m not trying to equate these micro aggressions with institutional racism. But when you’re an eight year old or nine-year-old or 10-year-old boy it does mean everything to him.

And while I have never had to explain to him that there are People That don’t like him simply based on the color of his skin, I did have to explain to him that they was somebody important in his life, his teacher, that didn’t want to see him succeed simply based off his gender. And to be frank that was a very difficult conversation. I’m not suggesting it as difficult conversations that people of color have to have. But it involved a lot of tears and to be honest I don’t think he understood why his teacher didn’t want to see him win simply because he was a boy. It was a hard lesson.

This isn’t a zero sum game. There can be institutional sexism in the schools and institutional racism in society

And yes, this was raised to the principal. The teacher never mentioned it or apologized.

That's awful. People seem to forget that you can have institutional racism and white men can have greater privilege in society overall but an individual child can be hurt by those who focus on promoting greater equality in society. It's not that child's fault that white men run corporations and government. There is a real crisis in how boys get turned off from school in the elementary years and that applies to boys of all colors. Certainly it is worse for Black and Hispanic boys but all would be helped if the schools thought about how all students could be supported as individuals.

I was also really frustrated by the lack of programs for boys, *all* boys, when my son was young. He was disinterested in school and needed opportunities to try out things that could spark an interest. We'd hear about an interesting weekend program but turns out it's just for girls or just for minority boys. Fortunately, we can afford to pay for camps and tutors so he did get what he needed but I can totally understand a low income white family getting really angry at the school system's decision that they don't really need to invest anything in white boys' success.

You weren't looking hard enough. If I saw a camp open to a certain segment of society, I could also find 10 more camps for the general population.

+1 I find it hard to believe there's an elementary school or district out there where none of the programs are open for white boys to participate in.

Certainly there were programs he could participate in - because we could and did pay for them. My concern was that the free programs were largely excluding white boys so I can see why that would add to the anger of low-income whites who start to feel that the world is against them.

Low income whites don't mix all that much with low income POC. They definitely do NOT live in the same neighborhoods and attend the same schools. Vast majority of low income whites in the U.S. live in extremely white areas, almost universally outside of major cities where POC congregate.

You're feeling bad for low income white kids who don't actually exist at your school? You're feeling bad for a strawman? Ooooooooook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp that shared the story about my son and the school election (and the all female staff wearing Girlz Rul shirts)

I’m not trying to equate these micro aggressions with institutional racism. But when you’re an eight year old or nine-year-old or 10-year-old boy it does mean everything to him.

And while I have never had to explain to him that there are People That don’t like him simply based on the color of his skin, I did have to explain to him that they was somebody important in his life, his teacher, that didn’t want to see him succeed simply based off his gender. And to be frank that was a very difficult conversation. I’m not suggesting it as difficult conversations that people of color have to have. But it involved a lot of tears and to be honest I don’t think he understood why his teacher didn’t want to see him win simply because he was a boy. It was a hard lesson.

This isn’t a zero sum game. There can be institutional sexism in the schools and institutional racism in society

And yes, this was raised to the principal. The teacher never mentioned it or apologized.

That's awful. People seem to forget that you can have institutional racism and white men can have greater privilege in society overall but an individual child can be hurt by those who focus on promoting greater equality in society. It's not that child's fault that white men run corporations and government. There is a real crisis in how boys get turned off from school in the elementary years and that applies to boys of all colors. Certainly it is worse for Black and Hispanic boys but all would be helped if the schools thought about how all students could be supported as individuals.

I was also really frustrated by the lack of programs for boys, *all* boys, when my son was young. He was disinterested in school and needed opportunities to try out things that could spark an interest. We'd hear about an interesting weekend program but turns out it's just for girls or just for minority boys. Fortunately, we can afford to pay for camps and tutors so he did get what he needed but I can totally understand a low income white family getting really angry at the school system's decision that they don't really need to invest anything in white boys' success.

You weren't looking hard enough. If I saw a camp open to a certain segment of society, I could also find 10 more camps for the general population.

+1 I find it hard to believe there's an elementary school or district out there where none of the programs are open for white boys to participate in.

Certainly there were programs he could participate in - because we could and did pay for them. My concern was that the free programs were largely excluding white boys so I can see why that would add to the anger of low-income whites who start to feel that the world is against them.

Low income whites don't mix all that much with low income POC. They definitely do NOT live in the same neighborhoods and attend the same schools. Vast majority of low income whites in the U.S. live in extremely white areas, almost universally outside of major cities where POC congregate.

You're feeling bad for low income white kids who don't actually exist at your school? You're feeling bad for a strawman? Ooooooooook.

That's a very good point. Just look at an area like Manassas.

[Anonymous]

Certainly there were programs he could participate in - because we could and did pay for them. My concern was that the free programs were largely excluding white boys so I can see why that would add to the anger of low-income whites who start to feel that the world is against them.

Any program I've ever seen is for either kids of color, or kids eligible for FARMS, or both. Your concern for low income white boys is misplaced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Certainly there were programs he could participate in - because we could and did pay for them. My concern was that the free programs were largely excluding white boys so I can see why that would add to the anger of low-income whites who start to feel that the world is against them.

Any program I've ever seen is for either kids of color, or kids eligible for FARMS, or both. Your concern for low income white boys is misplaced.

The problem is that low-income whites congregate in very white, conservative, low tax areas where the political elite don't give two sh#ts about them. The wrap-around services and opportunities for a FARMS kid in DC or Arlington School District - regardless of ethnicity - is so much better than what a low income white kid will get in rural parts of southern VA, Tennessee, or Texas. Those families are more than welcome to move to the District, accept their neighbors, fit into our culture, and give their kids those opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Certainly there were programs he could participate in - because we could and did pay for them. My concern was that the free programs were largely excluding white boys so I can see why that would add to the anger of low-income whites who start to feel that the world is against them.

Any program I've ever seen is for either kids of color, or kids eligible for FARMS, or both. Your concern for low income white boys is misplaced.

The problem is that low-income whites congregate in very white, conservative, low tax areas where the political elite don't give two sh#ts about them. The wrap-around services and opportunities for a FARMS kid in DC or Arlington School District - regardless of ethnicity - is so much better than what a low income white kid will get in rural parts of southern VA, Tennessee, or Texas. Those families are more than welcome to move to the District, accept their neighbors, fit into our culture, and give their kids those opportunities.

They vote for what they want- it’s not the political elite denying them anything it’s their parents when they decide to fill in one bubble as opposed to another at the polling station

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is where you lost me. Why should men who are alive today have to compete with historical statistics? The women and minorities alive now should be given the chance to succeed, as should the white men. No one is "owed" a position based on their historical representation... you weren't alive then to be wronged. Neither should a group be penalized based on their historical representation, as they weren't alive to benefit from that "privilege."

Tragedy undoubtedly happened throughout much of our country’s history. But my son wasn’t part of the problem. When did we start penalizing people for the sins of other people’s ancestors?

Having to share equally in opportunity is not penalizing your son. And regardless of him being a child who didn't contribute to the system that currently exists, he benefits from it. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have a fair chance at the things he wants. But, it is also important to understand that he is benefiting from many things you may not realize that may put him in a better position. That's not fair either to the other kids who don't have those advantages. Is it?

It's important to have representation across the board, imo. Do you think it's easy explaining to young girls why there has never been a female president? How 100 years ago she wouldn't have been worthy enough to vote? How 50 years ago she couldn't get credit in her name or control her own reproduction? How women used to only be allowed to be teachers or nurse, despite maybe wanting another path that was open to men?

I'm sorry, but there is a certain amount of "I see [a woman or POC] in a position of power or leadership, that means I can do it too." And seeing that representation is just as valid as the complaint you are making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a white male, I'm more than willing to sit down and take my talking to. It's hundreds of years overdue. I mean that.

What I do get upset about is certain behaviors I see in the school system. And it could be as minor as all the teachers getting together to wear "Girls Rule" shirts (one even worse the shirt that "Boys Drool)"

Or when my son was running for a position in the government, and his female classmate won, his teacher cheered and "said oh yay, I was hoping a girl would win."

Keep in mind, that this was after the current crop of school government didnt have any boys in it all.

There are many little micro-examples of boys feeling marginalized in school, and I have many many more, and we're seeing the long term results of that already in education, with fewer boys pursuing higher education

As an African American women, I feel the impact of racism every damn day and you're complaining about a t-shirt.

Any discrimination is wrong. If we decide to tolerate "just a little", guess who gets shafted the hardest?

You missed the point. Discrimination and institutional racism are two different experiences. The problem with the post that it equates white male fragility with institutionalized racism. Go tell Ahmaud Arbery about that t-shirt incident, both happened in 2020.

Oh wait, he's dead. Hunted down and killed. Killed on camera. I had to explain the killing to my child. The thing is, I have to explain the advertising messages, on t-shirts, to my kid too.

Or, the day that I came home upset because my white boss asked me to use the men's bathroom so that the women's bathroom could be saved for a white woman who was a cancer survivor. I never heard that you could get COVID-19 from a toilet seat in a different stall.

So it would be ok if I ran around with my "Men Rule" t-shirt because it isn't killing anybody?

I am sorry about your workplace, the entitlement of white women and COVID can't be fixed until we have some people willing to trust science instead of their grade school intuition.

The toilet issue wasn’t about color. She’s making it about color. It was concern over a cancer survivor

[Anonymous]

Black man here. It sounds like everybody is angry...and that's okay. We can all do better. It's not a contest to see who gets mistreated the most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a white male, I'm more than willing to sit down and take my talking to. It's hundreds of years overdue. I mean that.

What I do get upset about is certain behaviors I see in the school system. And it could be as minor as all the teachers getting together to wear "Girls Rule" shirts (one even worse the shirt that "Boys Drool)"

Or when my son was running for a position in the government, and his female classmate won, his teacher cheered and "said oh yay, I was hoping a girl would win."

Keep in mind, that this was after the current crop of school government didnt have any boys in it all.

There are many little micro-examples of boys feeling marginalized in school, and I have many many more, and we're seeing the long term results of that already in education, with fewer boys pursuing higher education

As an African American women, I feel the impact of racism every damn day and you're complaining about a t-shirt.

Any discrimination is wrong. If we decide to tolerate "just a little", guess who gets shafted the hardest?

You missed the point. Discrimination and institutional racism are two different experiences. The problem with the post that it equates white male fragility with institutionalized racism. Go tell Ahmaud Arbery about that t-shirt incident, both happened in 2020.

Oh wait, he's dead. Hunted down and killed. Killed on camera. I had to explain the killing to my child. The thing is, I have to explain the advertising messages, on t-shirts, to my kid too.

Or, the day that I came home upset because my white boss asked me to use the men's bathroom so that the women's bathroom could be saved for a white woman who was a cancer survivor. I never heard that you could get COVID-19 from a toilet seat in a different stall.

So it would be ok if I ran around with my "Men Rule" t-shirt because it isn't killing anybody?

I am sorry about your workplace, the entitlement of white women and COVID can't be fixed until we have some people willing to trust science instead of their grade school intuition.

The toilet issue wasn’t about color. She’s making it about color. It was concern over a cancer survivor

It was deference to the white woman so there wasn't a Karen moment. A cancer survivor isn't at significantly more risk:

https://www.today.com/health/coronavirus-cancer-risk-survivors-immunocompromised-patients-t175903

Patients with a history of cancer who are not currently on therapy and don’t have active cancer are probably not at significantly increased risk compared to other people in their age group, Moore said.