How will Wootton or RM be affected by new high school in Crown Farm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No not Fallsmead walkers to Wooton same with Lakewood students. Many are walkers to Frost as well. Crown HS will pull Fields road and possibly Dufief that's it. Dufief is a long shot. Falls Grove is way closer to Crown than Fallsmead or Lakewood. This is all conjecture. The county still has to build Crown HS. Develpers wanted to sell those properties they are still trying to get the word out that Crown will be pulling from Wootton...

eh.. Horizon Hill used to be zoned for Wootton, walking distance, and they got rezoned to RM. It has happened and can happen again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Fallsgrove won’t go to Crown. It is 2/3 of Ritchie Park students. The northwest side of Wootton will be shifted as the bus drive is too far anyway. Travilah to QO cluster. Dufief to Crown. That leaves Ritchie Park and Twinbrook going to Wootton. Remember, the plan is to even neighborhoods and FARMS. RM is overcrowded so having CG, Beall, Rustin, and then Maryvale keeps RM less in numbers, same FARMS and increases FARMS at Wootton. It decreases FARMS at QO. All of this minus 1.5 extra miles to Wootton, makes every other schools change closer. I do think King Farm will go to Gaithersburg, not Crown or RM.

i hope youre right. my plan in the near future is to buy a house that is currently zoned for RP and RM (horizon hills, potomac woods) and hope that it gets rezoned to Wootton for a huge boost in value.

You are thinking in a vacuum. All of those HS - Wootton, RM, QO, GHS -- will look differently after Crown HS is built and the entire area is rezoned.

-signed a Horizon Hill resident

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Falls Grove is way closer to Crown than Fallsmead or Lakewood.

Have you actually looked at the cluster maps? Serious question.

Fallsgrove isn't an ES, it's a portion of the Ritchie Park ES zone. Similarly, the housing between Washingtonian Blvd and Fields Road doesn't not constitute a full ES zone. So within these two subgroups, which is closer to Crown? The Fallsmead portion, and it's not even close.

If instead, the criteria is the zone as a whole (what will be least burdensome to the students further away), how is RP closer to Crown than Lakewood or Stone Mill? It's not.

This all puts aside demographics, which absolutely will be a factor in what happens,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per Mongtomgery County.

The new school will relieve overcrowding by at least 150 students at Quince Orchard HS and by at least 120 students at Richard Montgomery HS." An FY 2020 appropriation was approved for planning funds. Once the planning is complete, a recommendation will be included in the next full CIP regarding the phasing and completion date for the opening of this new high school.

Nothing about Wootton...

You may want to explain the chart on page 4-109 of the CIP then.

+1 the reason why Crown is not mentioned directly in the CIP for Wootton HS is because it does not have to address the capacity issue for that HS, whereas for the other HS, which are over capacity, the plan needs to directly address the capacity issue, which will be alleviated by Crown.

But, there will be a domino affect, especially considering that they have explicitly stated that they will now be looking at adjacent boundaries, including diversity, when looking at capacity and drawing boundaries.

But the Projected Enrollment and Space Availability for Wootton clearly shows Crown HS there starting 2025.

Additionally, I would not be surprised if some ES/MS rezoning will occur because some of the ES/MS in that trifecta area are over crowded and will continue to be so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Falls Grove is way closer to Crown than Fallsmead or Lakewood.

Have you actually looked at the cluster maps? Serious question.

Fallsgrove isn't an ES, it's a portion of the Ritchie Park ES zone. Similarly, the housing between Washingtonian Blvd and Fields Road doesn't not constitute a full ES zone. So within these two subgroups, which is closer to Crown? The Fallsmead portion, and it's not even close.

If instead, the criteria is the zone as a whole (what will be least burdensome to the students further away), how is RP closer to Crown than Lakewood or Stone Mill? It's not.

This all puts aside demographics, which absolutely will be a factor in what happens,

Why do people assume that BOE won't move neighborhoods out of the current ES/MS as part of the Crown HS rezoning? I think this is the future after the boundary study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’ll also be interesting to see how they deal with the middle schools since - I guess some split scenarios?.

The middle school aspect is an underappreciated factor. It doesn't set up Crown well to succeed if it's taking kids from 4 different middle schools. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the shuffling that occurs here tries to consolidate that a bit, to the extent possible.

For example, you could swap the current MS zoning for Travilah and Stone Mill, so that Travilah now went to Cabin John instead of Stone Mill. This would allow you to move both Stone Mill and DuFief to Crown (one or two of the RM zones backfilling Wootton), with all those students coming from the same MS (Frost).

Fields Road, DuFief and Stone Mill would give Crown a starting point with some geographic continuity. You could add in Rosemont as well, and it expands further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Falls Grove is way closer to Crown than Fallsmead or Lakewood.

Have you actually looked at the cluster maps? Serious question.

Fallsgrove isn't an ES, it's a portion of the Ritchie Park ES zone. Similarly, the housing between Washingtonian Blvd and Fields Road doesn't not constitute a full ES zone. So within these two subgroups, which is closer to Crown? The Fallsmead portion, and it's not even close.

If instead, the criteria is the zone as a whole (what will be least burdensome to the students further away), how is RP closer to Crown than Lakewood or Stone Mill? It's not.

This all puts aside demographics, which absolutely will be a factor in what happens,

Why do people assume that BOE won't move neighborhoods out of the current ES/MS as part of the Crown HS rezoning? I think this is the future after the boundary study.

The BOE generally tries to avoid having the same ES split within two HS clusters, if at all possible. I think it's doubtful that they are just going to pull part of RP and part of Fallsmead into Crown HS. From a social standpoint, it's important that kids are able to keep some friends when they transition between ES and MS, and MS and HS. Under this scenario, the subset of kids from RP and Fallsmead are going to show up at Crown with no continuing classmates except half of their ES.

If OTOH you're asking whether they could redraw ES maps as well, I think that's on the table. But in this particular case, it's not obvious to me how you reshuffle that deck here in terms of Ritchie Park and Fallsmead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Falls Grove is way closer to Crown than Fallsmead or Lakewood.

Have you actually looked at the cluster maps? Serious question.

Fallsgrove isn't an ES, it's a portion of the Ritchie Park ES zone. Similarly, the housing between Washingtonian Blvd and Fields Road doesn't not constitute a full ES zone. So within these two subgroups, which is closer to Crown? The Fallsmead portion, and it's not even close.

If instead, the criteria is the zone as a whole (what will be least burdensome to the students further away), how is RP closer to Crown than Lakewood or Stone Mill? It's not.

This all puts aside demographics, which absolutely will be a factor in what happens,

Why do people assume that BOE won't move neighborhoods out of the current ES/MS as part of the Crown HS rezoning? I think this is the future after the boundary study.

The BOE generally tries to avoid having the same ES split within two HS clusters, if at all possible. I think it's doubtful that they are just going to pull part of RP and part of Fallsmead into Crown HS. From a social standpoint, it's important that kids are able to keep some friends when they transition between ES and MS, and MS and HS. Under this scenario, the subset of kids from RP and Fallsmead are going to show up at Crown with no continuing classmates except half of their ES.

If OTOH you're asking whether they could redraw ES maps as well, I think that's on the table. But in this particular case, it's not obvious to me how you reshuffle that deck here in terms of Ritchie Park and Fallsmead.

Yes, the bolded is what I meant. IMO the whole boundary starting from ES on up needs to be redrawn. There are too many lopsided situations where one cluster has most of the ES over capacity while most of the ES in the neighboring cluster are under capacity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Northwest is also in the CIP for Crown, right? What changes would you anticipate there?

Forgot about NW... it projects to be 334 overcapacity in 2034. Moving a NW ES to QO would seem like the most likely outcome. Fields Road is right next to Crown so it could shift out of QO to open up space there.

Since NW just shifted kids to SVHS, are they wouldn’t be over capacity anymore though right?

I forget if the data already reflects that, but I agree that there's no real issue in terms of NW. It's capacity is fine, and it's not close to Crown. Unless there's a change in plans to make Crown some sort of consortium program, it would seem most logical that it's going to be pulled from Wootton (for example, DuFief and StoneMill are closer to the Crown site than they are to Wootton HS), QO and GB, with perhaps some of RM (Twinbrook if you want balanced demographics, RP if you're focused on geography) moving to Wootton to backfill.

Diamond ES is close to Crown. If the entire Diamond shifts to Crown, then some of the QO kids can move to NW to relieve overcrowding there, or perhaps some of the GHS overflow.can be accommodated at NW.

[Anonymous]

I think a better way to think about the boundary analysis and the upcoming studies is to just ask what if we started from a blank slate? You have demographic details and projections about all of the neighborhoods, what schools would you send them to to balance the four factors, plus considering articulation patterns? This isn't a school-by-school problem, it is a system-wide problem. Although a from scratch solution would likely have many neighborhoods going to the same schools, there could also be a lot of shifting. It isn't a huge difference in travel times to change schools for locations where there are many schools close together. And for some places that are pretty far from a MS or HS, they are equally far from more than one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a better way to think about the boundary analysis and the upcoming studies is to just ask what if we started from a blank slate? You have demographic details and projections about all of the neighborhoods, what schools would you send them to to balance the four factors, plus considering articulation patterns? This isn't a school-by-school problem, it is a system-wide problem. Although a from scratch solution would likely have many neighborhoods going to the same schools, there could also be a lot of shifting. It isn't a huge difference in travel times to change schools for locations where there are many schools close together. And for some places that are pretty far from a MS or HS, they are equally far from more than one.

Yes to all of this. This is why they hired a consultant to do the analysis.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:
Fallsgrove won’t go to Crown. It is 2/3 of Ritchie Park students. The northwest side of Wootton will be shifted as the bus drive is too far anyway. Travilah to QO cluster. Dufief to Crown. That leaves Ritchie Park and Twinbrook going to Wootton. Remember, the plan is to even neighborhoods and FARMS. RM is overcrowded so having CG, Beall, Rustin, and then Maryvale keeps RM less in numbers, same FARMS and increases FARMS at Wootton. It decreases FARMS at QO. All of this minus 1.5 extra miles to Wootton, makes every other schools change closer. I do think King Farm will go to Gaithersburg, not Crown or RM.

I don't think that will make RM have the same FARMs rate as it is now. RP, including FG, has the lowest FARMs rate, and Maryvale FARMs is also fairly high.

FG does not have the lowest. They actually have HUD housing, at least 10% I think as does Park Potomac. The areas that are low in FARMS are the older single family home developments.

Maryvale has over 30% less FARMS than Twinbrook. It would be an even trade and less kids since RM desperately needs either a new addition or 1 less school in their cluster. And like another poster pointed out, they would have options to increase the IB program if needed. Right now, they have portables stacking up in the parking lot. It is terrible. The other option is to move the IB program to Crown which I can totally see happening. Then RM's FARMS rate would get pretty high.

RP, includes FG.. I'm pointing out that RP won't be moved out of RM to Wootton because RP has the lowest FARMs rate of all the ESs in the RM cluster. Maryvale is zoned for Rockville HS, and that HS is already under capacity. I suppose they could rezone other areas to Rockville, HS, but I can't see MCPS moving Maryvale out of an under utilized cluster like Rockville HS into another cluster where the switch would make the other school (RM) at or still above capacity.

Based on the 2018-19 data in the CIP (http://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP21_Chap4_RM.pdf), taking Twinbrook and RP out of RM would decrease the FARMS rate at the ES level from 31% (the current ES rate) to about 25%. While RP does have the lowest FARMS rate of the current RM elementary schools, it's also lower capacity than the others, so removing it doesn't have a huge effect on the percentage.

Actually, in a hypothetical scenario where Twinbrook and RP end up at Wootton, the FARMS rates between RM and Wootton become much more balanced, and you do it without a lot of geographic disruption given that RP is closer to Wootton than RM.

The piece of the puzzle that's missing here is Crown HS, and how that will impact FARMs rate for RM. I don't think it will have that much impact on Wootton FARMs rate.

Right... my point is that there's room to move a couple of ES zones from Wootton to Crown and a couple from RM to Wootton where you end up with a more even demographic balance between RM, Wootton and Crown, without any significant geographic obstacles. That's the context for why we'd be in a position to move any ES zones from RM to Wootton in the first place (i.e., some Wootton ES zones are shifting to Crown, opening up space at Wootton).

If the only thing on the table is moving ES zones directly into Crown without changing anything else, then Wootton is going to remain much lower FARMS than RM or Crown. It would be one thing if that were destined to be the case due to geographic limitations, but that's not the case here given where Wootton HS is located and its proximity to many of the RM zones.

No Wootton Elementary schools are going to be changed to Crown. Developers have been suggesting that since Crown broke ground. StoneMill is too large to take away, Dufief is small but won't solve the issues and Travilah would be a busing nightmare. Keep trying to push that narative it's a no go.

Wootton is in the CIP for Crown. Some students will definitely be moving. Fallsmead has a whole neighborhood that's literally in Crown right now and Lakewood is also close to Crown. It will happen.

No not Fallsmead walkers to Wooton same with Lakewood students. Many are walkers to Frost as well. Crown HS will pull Fields road and possibly Dufief that's it. Dufief is a long shot. Falls Grove is way closer to Crown than Fallsmead or Lakewood. This is all conjecture. The county still has to build Crown HS. Develpers wanted to sell those properties they are still trying to get the word out that Crown will be pulling from Wootton...

And some of the Fallsmead boundary is walking distance to Crown. So I guess we'll see which walkers get prioritized....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Fallsgrove won’t go to Crown. It is 2/3 of Ritchie Park students. The northwest side of Wootton will be shifted as the bus drive is too far anyway. Travilah to QO cluster. Dufief to Crown. That leaves Ritchie Park and Twinbrook going to Wootton. Remember, the plan is to even neighborhoods and FARMS. RM is overcrowded so having CG, Beall, Rustin, and then Maryvale keeps RM less in numbers, same FARMS and increases FARMS at Wootton. It decreases FARMS at QO. All of this minus 1.5 extra miles to Wootton, makes every other schools change closer. I do think King Farm will go to Gaithersburg, not Crown or RM.

i hope youre right. my plan in the near future is to buy a house that is currently zoned for RP and RM (horizon hills, potomac woods) and hope that it gets rezoned to Wootton for a huge boost in value.

You are thinking in a vacuum. All of those HS - Wootton, RM, QO, GHS -- will look differently after Crown HS is built and the entire area is rezoned.

-signed a Horizon Hill resident

Not Wootton. No rezoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Fallsgrove won’t go to Crown. It is 2/3 of Ritchie Park students. The northwest side of Wootton will be shifted as the bus drive is too far anyway. Travilah to QO cluster. Dufief to Crown. That leaves Ritchie Park and Twinbrook going to Wootton. Remember, the plan is to even neighborhoods and FARMS. RM is overcrowded so having CG, Beall, Rustin, and then Maryvale keeps RM less in numbers, same FARMS and increases FARMS at Wootton. It decreases FARMS at QO. All of this minus 1.5 extra miles to Wootton, makes every other schools change closer. I do think King Farm will go to Gaithersburg, not Crown or RM.

i hope youre right. my plan in the near future is to buy a house that is currently zoned for RP and RM (horizon hills, potomac woods) and hope that it gets rezoned to Wootton for a huge boost in value.

You are thinking in a vacuum. All of those HS - Wootton, RM, QO, GHS -- will look differently after Crown HS is built and the entire area is rezoned.

-signed a Horizon Hill resident

Not Wootton. No rezoning.

Is that a prayer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No not Fallsmead walkers to Wooton same with Lakewood students. Many are walkers to Frost as well. Crown HS will pull Fields road and possibly Dufief that's it. Dufief is a long shot. Falls Grove is way closer to Crown than Fallsmead or Lakewood. This is all conjecture. The county still has to build Crown HS. Develpers wanted to sell those properties they are still trying to get the word out that Crown will be pulling from Wootton...

eh.. Horizon Hill used to be zoned for Wootton, walking distance, and they got rezoned to RM. It has happened and can happen again.

In 1987.

Nineteen eighty-seven.

32 years ago.

Lots of things have changed in 32 years, including the priority MCPS places on not putting kids in a potential walk zone on buses.