How will Wootton or RM be affected by new high school in Crown Farm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No Wootton Elementary schools are going to be changed to Crown. Developers have been suggesting that since Crown broke ground. StoneMill is too large to take away, Dufief is small but won't solve the issues and Travilah would be a busing nightmare. Keep trying to push that narative it's a no go.

I would bet money that you're wrong. Crown planning is part of the Wootton cluster in the current CIP, but there's no current capacity issue at Wootton. (See http://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP21_Chap4_Wootton.pdf). In fact, MCPS projects declining enrollment within Wootton, such that there's a projected surplus of 136 seats by 2034. In the same year, the projected overcapacities in the other Crown-related clusters are 545 in QO, 557 in Gaithersburg and 663 in RM. The Great Seneca Science Corridor Master Plan would have added a lot of new housing within the current Wootton zones, but all those plans were contingent upon the CCT being built, which is now dead.

If you think that the BOE is just going to end up pulling kids from QO, RM and GB to build Crown, and leave Wootton untouched, you're delusional. Keep in mind that a decent chunk of Fallsmead is literally across the street from the Crown site. Meanwhile, Stonemill and Dufief are about 5 minutes away. Even Travilah is a pretty short drive. Given the demographic disparity that exists, it is a sure thing IMO that there will be changes affecting Wootton.

[Anonymous]

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Fallsgrove won’t go to Crown. It is 2/3 of Ritchie Park students. The northwest side of Wootton will be shifted as the bus drive is too far anyway. Travilah to QO cluster. Dufief to Crown. That leaves Ritchie Park and Twinbrook going to Wootton. Remember, the plan is to even neighborhoods and FARMS. RM is overcrowded so having CG, Beall, Rustin, and then Maryvale keeps RM less in numbers, same FARMS and increases FARMS at Wootton. It decreases FARMS at QO. All of this minus 1.5 extra miles to Wootton, makes every other schools change closer. I do think King Farm will go to Gaithersburg, not Crown or RM.

I don't think that will make RM have the same FARMs rate as it is now. RP, including FG, has the lowest FARMs rate, and Maryvale FARMs is also fairly high.

FG does not have the lowest. They actually have HUD housing, at least 10% I think as does Park Potomac. The areas that are low in FARMS are the older single family home developments.

Maryvale has over 30% less FARMS than Twinbrook. It would be an even trade and less kids since RM desperately needs either a new addition or 1 less school in their cluster. And like another poster pointed out, they would have options to increase the IB program if needed. Right now, they have portables stacking up in the parking lot. It is terrible. The other option is to move the IB program to Crown which I can totally see happening. Then RM's FARMS rate would get pretty high.

RP, includes FG.. I'm pointing out that RP won't be moved out of RM to Wootton because RP has the lowest FARMs rate of all the ESs in the RM cluster. Maryvale is zoned for Rockville HS, and that HS is already under capacity. I suppose they could rezone other areas to Rockville, HS, but I can't see MCPS moving Maryvale out of an under utilized cluster like Rockville HS into another cluster where the switch would make the other school (RM) at or still above capacity.

Based on the 2018-19 data in the CIP (http://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP21_Chap4_RM.pdf), taking Twinbrook and RP out of RM would decrease the FARMS rate at the ES level from 31% (the current ES rate) to about 25%. While RP does have the lowest FARMS rate of the current RM elementary schools, it's also lower capacity than the others, so removing it doesn't have a huge effect on the percentage.

Actually, in a hypothetical scenario where Twinbrook and RP end up at Wootton, the FARMS rates between RM and Wootton become much more balanced, and you do it without a lot of geographic disruption given that RP is closer to Wootton than RM.

The piece of the puzzle that's missing here is Crown HS, and how that will impact FARMs rate for RM. I don't think it will have that much impact on Wootton FARMs rate.

Right... my point is that there's room to move a couple of ES zones from Wootton to Crown and a couple from RM to Wootton where you end up with a more even demographic balance between RM, Wootton and Crown, without any significant geographic obstacles. That's the context for why we'd be in a position to move any ES zones from RM to Wootton in the first place (i.e., some Wootton ES zones are shifting to Crown, opening up space at Wootton).

If the only thing on the table is moving ES zones directly into Crown without changing anything else, then Wootton is going to remain much lower FARMS than RM or Crown. It would be one thing if that were destined to be the case due to geographic limitations, but that's not the case here given where Wootton HS is located and its proximity to many of the RM zones.

No Wootton Elementary schools are going to be changed to Crown. Developers have been suggesting that since Crown broke ground. StoneMill is too large to take away, Dufief is small but won't solve the issues and Travilah would be a busing nightmare. Keep trying to push that narative it's a no go.

Wootton is in the CIP for Crown. Some students will definitely be moving. Fallsmead has a whole neighborhood that's literally in Crown right now and Lakewood is also close to Crown. It will happen.

[Anonymous]

Northwest is also in the CIP for Crown, right? What changes would you anticipate there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Northwest is also in the CIP for Crown, right? What changes would you anticipate there?

Forgot about NW... it projects to be 334 overcapacity in 2034. Moving a NW ES to QO would seem like the most likely outcome. Fields Road is right next to Crown so it could shift out of QO to open up space there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Northwest is also in the CIP for Crown, right? What changes would you anticipate there?

Forgot about NW... it projects to be 334 overcapacity in 2034. Moving a NW ES to QO would seem like the most likely outcome. Fields Road is right next to Crown so it could shift out of QO to open up space there.

Since NW just shifted kids to SVHS, are they wouldn’t be over capacity anymore though right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Northwest is also in the CIP for Crown, right? What changes would you anticipate there?

Forgot about NW... it projects to be 334 overcapacity in 2034. Moving a NW ES to QO would seem like the most likely outcome. Fields Road is right next to Crown so it could shift out of QO to open up space there.

Since NW just shifted kids to SVHS, are they wouldn’t be over capacity anymore though right?

I forget if the data already reflects that, but I agree that there's no real issue in terms of NW. It's capacity is fine, and it's not close to Crown. Unless there's a change in plans to make Crown some sort of consortium program, it would seem most logical that it's going to be pulled from Wootton (for example, DuFief and StoneMill are closer to the Crown site than they are to Wootton HS), QO and GB, with perhaps some of RM (Twinbrook if you want balanced demographics, RP if you're focused on geography) moving to Wootton to backfill.

[Anonymous]

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Fallsgrove won’t go to Crown. It is 2/3 of Ritchie Park students. The northwest side of Wootton will be shifted as the bus drive is too far anyway. Travilah to QO cluster. Dufief to Crown. That leaves Ritchie Park and Twinbrook going to Wootton. Remember, the plan is to even neighborhoods and FARMS. RM is overcrowded so having CG, Beall, Rustin, and then Maryvale keeps RM less in numbers, same FARMS and increases FARMS at Wootton. It decreases FARMS at QO. All of this minus 1.5 extra miles to Wootton, makes every other schools change closer. I do think King Farm will go to Gaithersburg, not Crown or RM.

I don't think that will make RM have the same FARMs rate as it is now. RP, including FG, has the lowest FARMs rate, and Maryvale FARMs is also fairly high.

FG does not have the lowest. They actually have HUD housing, at least 10% I think as does Park Potomac. The areas that are low in FARMS are the older single family home developments.

Maryvale has over 30% less FARMS than Twinbrook. It would be an even trade and less kids since RM desperately needs either a new addition or 1 less school in their cluster. And like another poster pointed out, they would have options to increase the IB program if needed. Right now, they have portables stacking up in the parking lot. It is terrible. The other option is to move the IB program to Crown which I can totally see happening. Then RM's FARMS rate would get pretty high.

RP, includes FG.. I'm pointing out that RP won't be moved out of RM to Wootton because RP has the lowest FARMs rate of all the ESs in the RM cluster. Maryvale is zoned for Rockville HS, and that HS is already under capacity. I suppose they could rezone other areas to Rockville, HS, but I can't see MCPS moving Maryvale out of an under utilized cluster like Rockville HS into another cluster where the switch would make the other school (RM) at or still above capacity.

Based on the 2018-19 data in the CIP (http://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP21_Chap4_RM.pdf), taking Twinbrook and RP out of RM would decrease the FARMS rate at the ES level from 31% (the current ES rate) to about 25%. While RP does have the lowest FARMS rate of the current RM elementary schools, it's also lower capacity than the others, so removing it doesn't have a huge effect on the percentage.

Actually, in a hypothetical scenario where Twinbrook and RP end up at Wootton, the FARMS rates between RM and Wootton become much more balanced, and you do it without a lot of geographic disruption given that RP is closer to Wootton than RM.

The piece of the puzzle that's missing here is Crown HS, and how that will impact FARMs rate for RM. I don't think it will have that much impact on Wootton FARMs rate.

Right... my point is that there's room to move a couple of ES zones from Wootton to Crown and a couple from RM to Wootton where you end up with a more even demographic balance between RM, Wootton and Crown, without any significant geographic obstacles. That's the context for why we'd be in a position to move any ES zones from RM to Wootton in the first place (i.e., some Wootton ES zones are shifting to Crown, opening up space at Wootton).

If the only thing on the table is moving ES zones directly into Crown without changing anything else, then Wootton is going to remain much lower FARMS than RM or Crown. It would be one thing if that were destined to be the case due to geographic limitations, but that's not the case here given where Wootton HS is located and its proximity to many of the RM zones.

No Wootton Elementary schools are going to be changed to Crown. Developers have been suggesting that since Crown broke ground. StoneMill is too large to take away, Dufief is small but won't solve the issues and Travilah would be a busing nightmare. Keep trying to push that narative it's a no go.

Wootton is in the CIP for Crown. Some students will definitely be moving. Fallsmead has a whole neighborhood that's literally in Crown right now and Lakewood is also close to Crown. It will happen.

No not Fallsmead walkers to Wooton same with Lakewood students. Many are walkers to Frost as well. Crown HS will pull Fields road and possibly Dufief that's it. Dufief is a long shot. Falls Grove is way closer to Crown than Fallsmead or Lakewood. This is all conjecture. The county still has to build Crown HS. Develpers wanted to sell those properties they are still trying to get the word out that Crown will be pulling from Wootton...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Northwest is also in the CIP for Crown, right? What changes would you anticipate there?

Forgot about NW... it projects to be 334 overcapacity in 2034. Moving a NW ES to QO would seem like the most likely outcome. Fields Road is right next to Crown so it could shift out of QO to open up space there.

Since NW just shifted kids to SVHS, are they wouldn’t be over capacity anymore though right?

I forget if the data already reflects that, but I agree that there's no real issue in terms of NW. It's capacity is fine, and it's not close to Crown. Unless there's a change in plans to make Crown some sort of consortium program, it would seem most logical that it's going to be pulled from Wootton (for example, DuFief and StoneMill are closer to the Crown site than they are to Wootton HS), QO and GB, with perhaps some of RM (Twinbrook if you want balanced demographics, RP if you're focused on geography) moving to Wootton to backfill.

From the CIP:
By 2025-2026:
RMHS - 587 over capacity
QO - 646 over (depending on the dufief/Lakelands outcome, this could be lower)
Wootton - 120 under
Gaithersburg - 397 over


Given that 3 of the schools are over capacity, it’s more likely at least one elementary school from each of those over capacity areas will be shifted to Crown. It’ll also be interesting to see how they deal with the middle schools since - I guess some split scenarios?.

[Anonymous]

Dag. We are in the Wootton cluster. Stone Mill elementary. Would love to get zoned for a different high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:StoneMill is too large to take away, Dufief is small but won't solve the issues and Travilah would be a busing nightmare.

Taking these three schools are comparing them to RP, help me understand why they'd leave everything the status quo. Let's remember that the RP zone is to the southwest of these three Wootton zones. Similary, RMHS is to the SW of Wootton. So that all makes logical sense given where everything is today.

Now we're opening up a new high school to that's NE of Wootton HS and RMHS, and there's an overcrowding issue coming from the west.

Even if demographics weren't in play, why would the BOE, for example, have RP students bus northwest (many driving past Wootton HS on the way) to get to Crown, while Stone Mill and DuFief students go east (buses crossing the RP students on Wootton Pkwy) instead of taking the shorter trip (with better access since you've got highways and road with more lanes) to Crown HS?

Other than preserving the status quo for the sake of preserving the status quo, it doesn't seem to make much sense.

PS - as to Travilah, most of it would have an easy drive to Crown. The part that would be a nightmare is the small gerrymandered chunk going over towards River Road, which is already a nightmare and will always stay that way unless it's moved to Churchill or QO.

[Anonymous]

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Fallsgrove won’t go to Crown. It is 2/3 of Ritchie Park students. The northwest side of Wootton will be shifted as the bus drive is too far anyway. Travilah to QO cluster. Dufief to Crown. That leaves Ritchie Park and Twinbrook going to Wootton. Remember, the plan is to even neighborhoods and FARMS. RM is overcrowded so having CG, Beall, Rustin, and then Maryvale keeps RM less in numbers, same FARMS and increases FARMS at Wootton. It decreases FARMS at QO. All of this minus 1.5 extra miles to Wootton, makes every other schools change closer. I do think King Farm will go to Gaithersburg, not Crown or RM.

I don't think that will make RM have the same FARMs rate as it is now. RP, including FG, has the lowest FARMs rate, and Maryvale FARMs is also fairly high.

FG does not have the lowest. They actually have HUD housing, at least 10% I think as does Park Potomac. The areas that are low in FARMS are the older single family home developments.

Maryvale has over 30% less FARMS than Twinbrook. It would be an even trade and less kids since RM desperately needs either a new addition or 1 less school in their cluster. And like another poster pointed out, they would have options to increase the IB program if needed. Right now, they have portables stacking up in the parking lot. It is terrible. The other option is to move the IB program to Crown which I can totally see happening. Then RM's FARMS rate would get pretty high.

RP, includes FG.. I'm pointing out that RP won't be moved out of RM to Wootton because RP has the lowest FARMs rate of all the ESs in the RM cluster. Maryvale is zoned for Rockville HS, and that HS is already under capacity. I suppose they could rezone other areas to Rockville, HS, but I can't see MCPS moving Maryvale out of an under utilized cluster like Rockville HS into another cluster where the switch would make the other school (RM) at or still above capacity.

Based on the 2018-19 data in the CIP (http://gis.mcpsmd.org/cipmasterpdfs/CIP21_Chap4_RM.pdf), taking Twinbrook and RP out of RM would decrease the FARMS rate at the ES level from 31% (the current ES rate) to about 25%. While RP does have the lowest FARMS rate of the current RM elementary schools, it's also lower capacity than the others, so removing it doesn't have a huge effect on the percentage.

Actually, in a hypothetical scenario where Twinbrook and RP end up at Wootton, the FARMS rates between RM and Wootton become much more balanced, and you do it without a lot of geographic disruption given that RP is closer to Wootton than RM.

The piece of the puzzle that's missing here is Crown HS, and how that will impact FARMs rate for RM. I don't think it will have that much impact on Wootton FARMs rate.

Right... my point is that there's room to move a couple of ES zones from Wootton to Crown and a couple from RM to Wootton where you end up with a more even demographic balance between RM, Wootton and Crown, without any significant geographic obstacles. That's the context for why we'd be in a position to move any ES zones from RM to Wootton in the first place (i.e., some Wootton ES zones are shifting to Crown, opening up space at Wootton).

If the only thing on the table is moving ES zones directly into Crown without changing anything else, then Wootton is going to remain much lower FARMS than RM or Crown. It would be one thing if that were destined to be the case due to geographic limitations, but that's not the case here given where Wootton HS is located and its proximity to many of the RM zones.

No Wootton Elementary schools are going to be changed to Crown. Developers have been suggesting that since Crown broke ground. StoneMill is too large to take away, Dufief is small but won't solve the issues and Travilah would be a busing nightmare. Keep trying to push that narative it's a no go.

Wootton is in the CIP for Crown. Some students will definitely be moving. Fallsmead has a whole neighborhood that's literally in Crown right now and Lakewood is also close to Crown. It will happen.

No not Fallsmead walkers to Wooton same with Lakewood students. Many are walkers to Frost as well. Crown HS will pull Fields road and possibly Dufief that's it. Dufief is a long shot. Falls Grove is way closer to Crown than Fallsmead or Lakewood. This is all conjecture. The county still has to build Crown HS. Develpers wanted to sell those properties they are still trying to get the word out that Crown will be pulling from Wootton...

It's not conjecture. It's literally in the CIP that Wootton will be part of the Crown boundary study. But continue to keep your head in the sand if you want.

[Anonymous]

Per Mongtomgery County.

The new school will relieve overcrowding by at least 150 students at Quince Orchard HS and by at least 120 students at Richard Montgomery HS." An FY 2020 appropriation was approved for planning funds. Once the planning is complete, a recommendation will be included in the next full CIP regarding the phasing and completion date for the opening of this new high school.

Nothing about Wootton...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No not Fallsmead walkers to Wooton same with Lakewood students.[/q]
Whether Fallsmead were zoned for Wootton or Crown, there would be an equal number of walkers. It's just a different group of walkers. That said, I agree that there are portions of Fallsmead that would be more inconvenient to Crown than Stone Mill, DuFief, Lakewood or most of Travilah.

[q]Many are walkers to Frost as well.[/q]
Doesn't really matter given that this doesn't necessarily change MS articulation.

[q]Crown HS will pull Fields road and possibly Dufief that's it. Dufief is a long shot. Falls Grove is way closer to Crown than Fallsmead or Lakewood. This is all conjecture.[/q]
Fields Road is 35% FARMS, and the closest ESs from GB are 50-80%. If you start building Crown with those schools, it's a given that whatever else they move will be very low FARMS (e.g., Lakewood, Stone Mill, Travilah, RP).

The issue with Fallsgrove is that it's zone to RP, and the rest of RP is geographically southwest from Wootton HS. Unless you come up with some way to change the ES maps, it seems unlikely to me that they are going to bus RP to Crown when the longest bus trip for students will be much longer than any trip from Lakewood or Stone Mill.

[q]The county still has to build Crown HS. Develpers wanted to sell those properties they are still trying to get the word out that Crown will be pulling from Wootton...[/q]
I've gone to some model homes at Crown over the last few years out of curiosity, and I've never had one agent suggest that. If anything, they just talk about how Gaithersburg HS is a brand new facility.

[Anonymous]

"Based on the Board of Education's proposed yearly spending in this project, the Council anticipates that Crown HS will open in September 2024. The new school will relieve overcrowding by at least 150 students at Quince Orchard HS and by at least 120 students at Richard Montgomery HS." An FY 2020 appropriation was approved for planning funds. Once the planning is complete, a recommendation will be included in the next full CIP regarding the phasing and completion date for the opening of this new high school."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Per Mongtomgery County.

The new school will relieve overcrowding by at least 150 students at Quince Orchard HS and by at least 120 students at Richard Montgomery HS." An FY 2020 appropriation was approved for planning funds. Once the planning is complete, a recommendation will be included in the next full CIP regarding the phasing and completion date for the opening of this new high school.

Nothing about Wootton...

You may want to explain the chart on page 4-109 of the CIP then.