Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Arab-Americans are discriminated against, but there are no preferences for them in college. So are Jewish-Americans in many instances. I would imagine that it's difficult to achieve as a Muslim-American woman in the US. I think that's why it's problematic to only identify certain groups as worthy of a second look, different standard and not others. Any kid who has ever had a teacher unable to pronounce his name, been compared to Osama Bin laden, laughed at because she had an accent, etc. should perhaps get that look.

Are they underrepresented in higher education? If yes, then they should get a second look. If no, then they shouldn't. Of course there are particular instances, but if you're looking for a bright-line rule, then that's the only one that seems coherent.
If there's some "I was discriminated against as an Arab-American woman, and my mom couldn't go to school in her home country" background, then that should definitely go in an essay.
I wonder what people make of the "discrimination" against girl applicants. After all, it's harder to get in as a girl than a boy, all other factors being equal. So is that a lawsuit we need to start?

Women are given preferential treatment in admission to the MIT, CalTech, etc schools.

Great. How about all the other non-tech schools.

which is why on page one i said white girls should be on the side of asian-americans on this.

Nah. I'm a white girl, but I still think racism matters and URMs should get a bump.

If racism matters, then racism against Asian Americans matter as well both racism in general and the racism in college admissions.

Yes but since Asians are not underrepresented, you're not showing racism that impacts educational attainment.

If we are going to go back to the proportional representation, we have to be consistent and talk about proportional representation in other areas as well.

For example, Asian Americans should make up 6% of the Judges in this country. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the politicians in this country. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the CEOs of fortune 500 companies. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the actors in movies and TVs. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the professional athletes in this country etc. The list is almost endless.

The point is, why is it that one area (academics) where Asians apparently are "over-represented" a major problem but the fact that Asian Americans are severely "under-represented" in virtually all other areas never a problem?

The proportional argument should be applied consistently for all areas not just one or two.

Because we value education differently. And because we are talking about education here. If Asians are underrepresented as ceo's or judges that's an issue, but not related to college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think you are confusing "Asians" with "Asian Americans" living in the US. Under your logic it would be like saying "don't whites have an entire continent already? I am sure there are some top schools in UK or France that whites ought to be able to attend." Asian Americans immigrated to this country just like you did and whites did.

But the #1 immigrant to the US are Asians. So we are talking about Asians not just Asian Americans. The Asian Americans are in the same pickle as the whites. Many of them are not in desperate enough situations to destroy their children's lives with test prep and piano lessons with Chinese language classes on the weekends.

I think there should be a clear distinction between Asian International applicants and Asian American (plus permanent resident) applicants. The issue is clearly for Asian Americans NOT Asian international students. Asian Americans are entitled to equal protection under the US Constitution whereas international students are probably not. The case was filed on behalf of Asian American applicants who were rejected on racially discriminatory grounds. don't discrimination laws ban discrimination based on national origin? I think this could open up an unintended can of worms

[Anonymous]

don't discrimination laws ban discrimination based on national origin? I think this could open up an unintended can of worms..^^^^

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Arab-Americans are discriminated against, but there are no preferences for them in college. So are Jewish-Americans in many instances. I would imagine that it's difficult to achieve as a Muslim-American woman in the US. I think that's why it's problematic to only identify certain groups as worthy of a second look, different standard and not others. Any kid who has ever had a teacher unable to pronounce his name, been compared to Osama Bin laden, laughed at because she had an accent, etc. should perhaps get that look.

Are they underrepresented in higher education? If yes, then they should get a second look. If no, then they shouldn't. Of course there are particular instances, but if you're looking for a bright-line rule, then that's the only one that seems coherent.
If there's some "I was discriminated against as an Arab-American woman, and my mom couldn't go to school in her home country" background, then that should definitely go in an essay.
I wonder what people make of the "discrimination" against girl applicants. After all, it's harder to get in as a girl than a boy, all other factors being equal. So is that a lawsuit we need to start?

Women are given preferential treatment in admission to the MIT, CalTech, etc schools.

Great. How about all the other non-tech schools.

which is why on page one i said white girls should be on the side of asian-americans on this.

Nah. I'm a white girl, but I still think racism matters and URMs should get a bump.

If racism matters, then racism against Asian Americans matter as well both racism in general and the racism in college admissions.

Yes but since Asians are not underrepresented, you're not showing racism that impacts educational attainment.

If we are going to go back to the proportional representation, we have to be consistent and talk about proportional representation in other areas as well.

For example, Asian Americans should make up 6% of the Judges in this country. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the politicians in this country. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the CEOs of fortune 500 companies. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the actors in movies and TVs. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the professional athletes in this country etc. The list is almost endless.

The point is, why is it that one area (academics) where Asians apparently are "over-represented" a major problem but the fact that Asian Americans are severely "under-represented" in virtually all other areas never a problem?

The proportional argument should be applied consistently for all areas not just one or two.

Because we value education differently. And because we are talking about education here. If Asians are underrepresented as ceo's or judges that's an issue, but not related to college admissions.

Education is certainty valued by Asian Americans as well. The other areas are mentioned only in response to the usual proportional representation argument. We do not live in a vacuum. Education and eventual accomplishments and success are all connected. In fact, extreme under-representation of Asian Americans in all areas except college student populations demonstrates extreme discrimination and obstacles.

Can we also say that it's ok to have under-representation of blacks in education since blacks are over-represented in sports, music industry etc.? We are still talking about education.

If blacks made up 36% of the NFL players, we could say they are certainly still over-represented compared to the general population of about 12%. In reality, blacks make up about 70% of the NFL players. That is what Asian Americans are saying: Yes, 18% of the top colleges is greater than 6% but it would be closer to 36% without the discrimination and quotas.

[Anonymous]

I had a lot of Asian classmates at my elite private university and they tended to underwhelm. They were good enough at taking tests to get in, but they didn't seem to thrive as much on their own as other students without their parents to direct them. They also were definitely less involved in organizations that made the place hum with activity. I can absolutely understand why top schools want to have a diverse student body that is selected on the basis of things other than test scores. If anything, they ought to do more to recognize the potential of poor whites, blacks and Hispanics.

[Anonymous]

Why would Asians want to go to UNC? It sucks at STEM.

[Anonymous]

I had a lot of white classmates at my elite high school and they tended to underwhelm. They were good enough at gaming the system to get in, but they didn't seem to thrive as much on their own as other students without their parents to direct them. They also were definitely less involved in organizations that made the place hum with activity. I can absolutely understand why top schools want to have a diverse student body. If anything, they ought to do more to recognize the potential of poor blacks, Hispanics and Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a lot of Asian classmates at my elite private university and they tended to underwhelm. They were good enough at taking tests to get in, but they didn't seem to thrive as much on their own as other students without their parents to direct them. They also were definitely less involved in organizations that made the place hum with activity. I can absolutely understand why top schools want to have a diverse student body that is selected on the basis of things other than test scores. If anything, they ought to do more to recognize the potential of poor whites, blacks and Hispanics.

You're lying.
In my top ivy school, most of the top of class are Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would Asians want to go to UNC? It sucks at STEM.

Look how racist people can be!
Why the F do you think Asians should be stick to STEM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would Asians want to go to UNC? It sucks at STEM.

This is equivalent to saying: why didn't you molest your child today since majority of the child sex offenders are white?

[Anonymous]

Checkout which group is really "over-represented" at top colleges and which group is really underrepresented:

http://philebersole.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/eliteenrollment-large.jpg

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Checkout which group is really "over-represented" at top colleges and which group is really underrepresented:

http://philebersole.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/eliteenrollment-large.jpg

Asians are under-presented based on merit. I think that's the topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a lot of Asian classmates at my elite private university and they tended to underwhelm. They were good enough at taking tests to get in, but they didn't seem to thrive as much on their own as other students without their parents to direct them. They also were definitely less involved in organizations that made the place hum with activity. I can absolutely understand why top schools want to have a diverse student body that is selected on the basis of things other than test scores. If anything, they ought to do more to recognize the potential of poor whites, blacks and Hispanics.

I had a lot of black classmates at my elite private university and they tended to underwhelm.

[Anonymous]

Just because you get a perfect Act score does not mean that Harvard is required to accept you.

Also, just because you are Valedictorian, Harvard is not required to accept you.

My sister was Val. of a great high school and had near perfect scores but she was not accepted. we did not read anything into this. She is blonde and blue eyed by the way. she went to Stanford and loved it.

There are many students who get perfect or near perfect scores on standardized tests.

This Asian applicant's "activities" were lacking. One sport and a couple of volunteer activities is underwhelming.

The Ivies are looking for a well rounded class of students and leadership qualities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just because you get a perfect Act score does not mean that Harvard is required to accept you.

Also, just because you are Valedictorian, Harvard is not required to accept you.

My sister was Val. of a great high school and had near perfect scores but she was not accepted. we did not read anything into this. She is blonde and blue eyed by the way. she went to Stanford and loved it.

There are many students who get perfect or near perfect scores on standardized tests.

This Asian applicant's "activities" were lacking. One sport and a couple of volunteer activities is underwhelming.

The Ivies are looking for a well rounded class of students and leadership qualities.

Asian Americans not only have to show higher SAT scores and higher GPAs, they also have to have more leadership positions, ECs, volunteer activities, sport participation, original research or other extraordinary talents compared all other races. The same old argument is to paint Asian Americans as only having high scores and that is not true. Stop stereotyping. If it's not ok to say blacks are lacking intelligence or Hispanics are lazy, it's equally offensive to continuously say Asians only offer high test scores and lack in all other areas.

In addition, people keep saying there are many people (e.g. ABC college could fill its entering class several times with students with perfect SAT scores etc.) with perfect SAT scores but actually only about 800 to 900 out of several millions achieve perfect scores on SAT each year.