Parents of small children - how are you managing RTO?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you worked at a company that outright banned telework and required you be on site 42.5 hours per week, monitored by badging out with time cards that are a felony to misrepresent on, I don’t want to hear how you managed pre covid. Jesus christ, people. Your quite cushy lives in 2019 are not comparable in this situation. Not at all.

Every defense contractor requires badging in and out. Nothing was cushy and nothing is new or harder for you. Timecards are as old as time. Get over your stupid self.

This! My work checked all of those boxes pre, during and post Covid. And speaking of cushy, a friend who works for the FDA and is worried about losing her job/bemoaning RTO in March told me last night at our kids' basketball practice (that I practically killed myself to get home in time to get to) that today is her Friday since she "works" remote tomorrow.

This doesn’t even make sense?! What does her “Friday” even mean. Why are you upset she has managed to find a job that allows her work/life balance.

Because as a taxpayer, I (NP) shouldn’t pay for her individual luxury of “balance.” I and apparently millions of others would prefer to pay her a part-time salary and no federal benefits — because she is in fact working part time.

Whether she wants to be all-in and miss games or lean out and watch basketball doesn’t matter to me. Her fraudulence is the problem.

How about showing some evidence that this is a widespread problem. Anecdotes do not count.

Shockingly, the timecard fraud federal workers didn’t raise their hands to identify themselves as they were stealing from the government. Wonder why? As a result, there isn’t the robust data collection you insist on to believe timecard fraud actually occurred.

For me, it’s enough anecdotal evidence that every. single. remote/telework. fed I know has been working part time and pulling a full time salary+benefits. For years. I feel super comfortable extrapolating from every federal tele/remote worker I know to the general population.

their employers are: FDA, NIH, DOT, EPA and Labor.

I respect their scope of work and the mission. I do not hate feds, at all (i am one). The fraud needs to stop.

Somehow all these different people that you resent so deeply are close enough with you to just admit to timecard fraud?

How do you know they are working part time? Janet going to the soccer game can make up her hours in the morning or evening. How do you know she’s not? Are you in her house watching?

PP. Some do admit it, because we've discussed it, yes. Of course they don't use the words 'timecard fraud.' They use euphemisms like 'balance' 'flexibility' and 'autonomy'.

Another one, I just know her schedule really, really well. Because we live 5 ft away from each other without shades. So I''m practically "in her house" whether I like it or not. The reverse is also true, because I don't want to buy shades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

+1
I agree with you. WFH was never going to be forever. Wasn't it only supposed to be until the lockdowns ended? It was a real nice ride while it lasted and never going to last forever.

Fed telework started years before covid.

It became slightly more common after Covid, didn’t it?

DP. Yes, it did, because we found out that for many of us, it works. We have better tools now, better connectivity, files have been digitized. No need to be in person and remote work has allowed my team to be much more responsive and flexible, able to respond to requests in the late evening hours. With RTO, that is no more.

People in roles requiring face to face have already been back at the office for 2-3 years now. You are ignorant if you think remote workers are simply still operating under Covid conditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you worked at a company that outright banned telework and required you be on site 42.5 hours per week, monitored by badging out with time cards that are a felony to misrepresent on, I don’t want to hear how you managed pre covid. Jesus christ, people. Your quite cushy lives in 2019 are not comparable in this situation. Not at all.

Every defense contractor requires badging in and out. Nothing was cushy and nothing is new or harder for you. Timecards are as old as time. Get over your stupid self.

This! My work checked all of those boxes pre, during and post Covid. And speaking of cushy, a friend who works for the FDA and is worried about losing her job/bemoaning RTO in March told me last night at our kids' basketball practice (that I practically killed myself to get home in time to get to) that today is her Friday since she "works" remote tomorrow.

This doesn’t even make sense?! What does her “Friday” even mean. Why are you upset she has managed to find a job that allows her work/life balance.

Because as a taxpayer, I (NP) shouldn’t pay for her individual luxury of “balance.” I and apparently millions of others would prefer to pay her a part-time salary and no federal benefits — because she is in fact working part time.

Whether she wants to be all-in and miss games or lean out and watch basketball doesn’t matter to me. Her fraudulence is the problem.

How about showing some evidence that this is a widespread problem. Anecdotes do not count.

Shockingly, the timecard fraud federal workers didn’t raise their hands to identify themselves as they were stealing from the government. Wonder why? As a result, there isn’t the robust data collection you insist on to believe timecard fraud actually occurred.

For me, it’s enough anecdotal evidence that every. single. remote/telework. fed I know has been working part time and pulling a full time salary+benefits. For years. I feel super comfortable extrapolating from every federal tele/remote worker I know to the general population.

their employers are: FDA, NIH, DOT, EPA and Labor.

I respect their scope of work and the mission. I do not hate feds, at all (i am one). The fraud needs to stop.

Somehow all these different people that you resent so deeply are close enough with you to just admit to timecard fraud?

How do you know they are working part time? Janet going to the soccer game can make up her hours in the morning or evening. How do you know she’s not? Are you in her house watching?

PP. Some do admit it, because we've discussed it, yes. Of course they don't use the words 'timecard fraud.' They use euphemisms like 'balance' 'flexibility' and 'autonomy'.

Another one, I just know her schedule really, really well. Because we live 5 ft away from each other without shades. So I''m practically "in her house" whether I like it or not. The reverse is also true, because I don't want to buy shades.

You are an absolute creep. Get a life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

+1
I agree with you. WFH was never going to be forever. Wasn't it only supposed to be until the lockdowns ended? It was a real nice ride while it lasted and never going to last forever.

Fed telework started years before covid.

It became slightly more common after Covid, didn’t it?

DP. Yes, it did, because we found out that for many of us, it works. We have better tools now, better connectivity, files have been digitized. No need to be in person and remote work has allowed my team to be much more responsive and flexible, able to respond to requests in the late evening hours. With RTO, that is no more.

People in roles requiring face to face have already been back at the office for 2-3 years now. You are ignorant if you think remote workers are simply still operating under Covid conditions.

It was because there were no childcare workers as they stayed home on the stimulus check or were afraid to contract COVID. That's over get daycare or a nanny you morons and stop the entitled attitude your job will be replaced with ai

[Anonymous]

Party is over get your ass to the office

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you worked at a company that outright banned telework and required you be on site 42.5 hours per week, monitored by badging out with time cards that are a felony to misrepresent on, I don’t want to hear how you managed pre covid. Jesus christ, people. Your quite cushy lives in 2019 are not comparable in this situation. Not at all.

Every defense contractor requires badging in and out. Nothing was cushy and nothing is new or harder for you. Timecards are as old as time. Get over your stupid self.

This! My work checked all of those boxes pre, during and post Covid. And speaking of cushy, a friend who works for the FDA and is worried about losing her job/bemoaning RTO in March told me last night at our kids' basketball practice (that I practically killed myself to get home in time to get to) that today is her Friday since she "works" remote tomorrow.

This doesn’t even make sense?! What does her “Friday” even mean. Why are you upset she has managed to find a job that allows her work/life balance.

Because as a taxpayer, I (NP) shouldn’t pay for her individual luxury of “balance.” I and apparently millions of others would prefer to pay her a part-time salary and no federal benefits — because she is in fact working part time.

Whether she wants to be all-in and miss games or lean out and watch basketball doesn’t matter to me. Her fraudulence is the problem.

A) You don't pay my salary, which is fee-funded.
B) Your payment of any fed's salary is miniscule, at best.
C) you're paying for work. If the work is getting done, the "where" is not your business. And for many feds, and all feds at my former agency, getting the work done at home worked perfectly.

None of that is fraud. You're just a bitter old hag.

I mean, I'm not the one who's bitter here. I have a fantastic close-in SFH and a 10 minute commute to my federal workplace. The nature of our work means we've been in-person all along.

It's the HR, IT and credentialing people at my agency who are bitter, because they've all been called back and will need to produce work now in a way that conforms with their PD. Their 90 minute drive and childcare stress isn't my concern.

[Anonymous]

I'm not trying to be mean or inflammatory or anything like that, but when Trump won the election didn't you all know that RTO was going to be the case?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

It sounds like you really like your home -- many of us do! Maybe getting a job closer to your beloved home would be a good move if the commute is unappealing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you worked at a company that outright banned telework and required you be on site 42.5 hours per week, monitored by badging out with time cards that are a felony to misrepresent on, I don’t want to hear how you managed pre covid. Jesus christ, people. Your quite cushy lives in 2019 are not comparable in this situation. Not at all.

Every defense contractor requires badging in and out. Nothing was cushy and nothing is new or harder for you. Timecards are as old as time. Get over your stupid self.

This! My work checked all of those boxes pre, during and post Covid. And speaking of cushy, a friend who works for the FDA and is worried about losing her job/bemoaning RTO in March told me last night at our kids' basketball practice (that I practically killed myself to get home in time to get to) that today is her Friday since she "works" remote tomorrow.

This doesn’t even make sense?! What does her “Friday” even mean. Why are you upset she has managed to find a job that allows her work/life balance.

Because as a taxpayer, I (NP) shouldn’t pay for her individual luxury of “balance.” I and apparently millions of others would prefer to pay her a part-time salary and no federal benefits — because she is in fact working part time.

Whether she wants to be all-in and miss games or lean out and watch basketball doesn’t matter to me. Her fraudulence is the problem.

How about showing some evidence that this is a widespread problem. Anecdotes do not count.

Shockingly, the timecard fraud federal workers didn’t raise their hands to identify themselves as they were stealing from the government. Wonder why? As a result, there isn’t the robust data collection you insist on to believe timecard fraud actually occurred.

For me, it’s enough anecdotal evidence that every. single. remote/telework. fed I know has been working part time and pulling a full time salary+benefits. For years. I feel super comfortable extrapolating from every federal tele/remote worker I know to the general population.

their employers are: FDA, NIH, DOT, EPA and Labor.

I respect their scope of work and the mission. I do not hate feds, at all (i am one). The fraud needs to stop.

Somehow all these different people that you resent so deeply are close enough with you to just admit to timecard fraud?

How do you know they are working part time? Janet going to the soccer game can make up her hours in the morning or evening. How do you know she’s not? Are you in her house watching?

PP. Some do admit it, because we've discussed it, yes. Of course they don't use the words 'timecard fraud.' They use euphemisms like 'balance' 'flexibility' and 'autonomy'.

Another one, I just know her schedule really, really well. Because we live 5 ft away from each other without shades. So I''m practically "in her house" whether I like it or not. The reverse is also true, because I don't want to buy shades.

You are an absolute creep. Get a life

Wear a blindfold in my own house you mean? Mmmm, no. Pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I rode an hour long plus vanpool when I first started in the gov't. There was no telework. You had to figure it out.

Now I see people hopping off the computer and going to school pickup and then resuming work with their young kids in the house and thinking there is nothing wrong with it.

There is nothing wrong with it. Kids are allowed to be present in the home while teleworking. My kid being at home doesn't mean I'm not working.

"While the presence of dependents in the household should not be an absolute bar to teleworking, employees should not be engaging in dependent care activities when performing official duties. While an occasional, brief interruption may occur when a dependent is present in the home, teleworkers must be careful to keep interruptions to a minimum to avoid disruptions in work accomplishment."

https://www.opm.gov/telework/tmo-and-coordinators/dependent-care/

And to add, dependent care for a 6 month old is very different from a 10 year old. A 6 month old would require a lot of care all day, which obviously someone needs daycare. But a 10 year old would be at school all day and should be able to figure something out for a little bit once they got home that doesn't involve bugging mom. But now with mom's added commute, the 10 year old can't be at home completely alone for 2 hours. My point though in posting is that a 10 year old being picked up from the bus stop is completely allowable in my interpretation.

Yeah I don't have sympathy here. I do not blame employers at all for calling for RTO for employees that do this. It is one thing to slowly give kids independence but to be completely unavailable to a child that can't be alone for 2 hours is irresponsible.

Reread the policy. Minimal interruptions while not preferrable, are allowed while teleworking. That's really all the supervision a 10 year old needs. But thanks to RTO, a lot of 10 years olds will be home alone for 2 hours. I agree that is irresponsible.

Is it? Can the parent find aftercare or a sitter? I had my ten year old in aftercare. There were t many kids that age there but we had no choice. Spent $$ on my elementary kids both being in aftercare right before COVId and all this workplace flexibility so in my mind people got away without this expense for several years now. Youve saved thousands , parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

Yes you made the choice to live far out while our family sacrificed to pay much more to stay close. Your choice your suffering. When the rates were low you should have bought close in to your job moron.

The choice was made when work offered TW. We have about 8 people we hired to work remote over the last 5 years -all but one a veteran, btw- and who now are likely to be out of jobs. These are people who moved to the midwest or other lower COLAs and were able to perform their jobs remotely. And were hired to work remotely. Their "choice" was based on the terms/conditions they were offered.

Don't be dense.

Don't be stupid yourself – anyone who moves to a totally different area once they get a remote job cannot expect that job to last forever. Similarly, if they're in a remote area and apply for and get hired for a remote job – they also can't expect it would last forever. They can find another remote job or find an in person job in their area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you worked at a company that outright banned telework and required you be on site 42.5 hours per week, monitored by badging out with time cards that are a felony to misrepresent on, I don’t want to hear how you managed pre covid. Jesus christ, people. Your quite cushy lives in 2019 are not comparable in this situation. Not at all.

Every defense contractor requires badging in and out. Nothing was cushy and nothing is new or harder for you. Timecards are as old as time. Get over your stupid self.

This! My work checked all of those boxes pre, during and post Covid. And speaking of cushy, a friend who works for the FDA and is worried about losing her job/bemoaning RTO in March told me last night at our kids' basketball practice (that I practically killed myself to get home in time to get to) that today is her Friday since she "works" remote tomorrow.

This doesn’t even make sense?! What does her “Friday” even mean. Why are you upset she has managed to find a job that allows her work/life balance.

Because as a taxpayer, I (NP) shouldn’t pay for her individual luxury of “balance.” I and apparently millions of others would prefer to pay her a part-time salary and no federal benefits — because she is in fact working part time.

Whether she wants to be all-in and miss games or lean out and watch basketball doesn’t matter to me. Her fraudulence is the problem.

How about showing some evidence that this is a widespread problem. Anecdotes do not count.

Shockingly, the timecard fraud federal workers didn’t raise their hands to identify themselves as they were stealing from the government. Wonder why? As a result, there isn’t the robust data collection you insist on to believe timecard fraud actually occurred.

For me, it’s enough anecdotal evidence that every. single. remote/telework. fed I know has been working part time and pulling a full time salary+benefits. For years. I feel super comfortable extrapolating from every federal tele/remote worker I know to the general population.

their employers are: FDA, NIH, DOT, EPA and Labor.

I respect their scope of work and the mission. I do not hate feds, at all (i am one). The fraud needs to stop.

Somehow all these different people that you resent so deeply are close enough with you to just admit to timecard fraud?

How do you know they are working part time? Janet going to the soccer game can make up her hours in the morning or evening. How do you know she’s not? Are you in her house watching?

PP. Some do admit it, because we've discussed it, yes. Of course they don't use the words 'timecard fraud.' They use euphemisms like 'balance' 'flexibility' and 'autonomy'.

Another one, I just know her schedule really, really well. Because we live 5 ft away from each other without shades. So I''m practically "in her house" whether I like it or not. The reverse is also true, because I don't want to buy shades.

NP-I have quite a few friends who work for the federal govt and they are definitely not shy about admitting to the fraud they've been committing. They've had it made for the past few years and are now bellyaching about having to actually work 40 hours, which they were not even close to doing remotely. I have very little sympathy. Maybe I'm bitter about having to have work in person all these years-who wouldn't be bitter about listening to people brag about being able to work 20 hours a week or less and get paid for 40? If they're able to get everything done in 20 hours then the position should be a part time one. I did not vote for Trump, by the way, and think he's a despicable poor excuse for a human being. But the "poor me"ing coming from RTOers is falling upon deaf ears here!

[Anonymous]

People look for problems not solutions. When I worked in Bethesda we had a single Mom who lived in Virginia and we were in person five days a week.

She enrolled her kid Catholic elementary school right next to building and had after school program. Her kid and her drove to and from work everyday. On rare days she had to do OT she get kid she do homework in office till she was done.

She could have just moved to Bethesda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you worked at a company that outright banned telework and required you be on site 42.5 hours per week, monitored by badging out with time cards that are a felony to misrepresent on, I don’t want to hear how you managed pre covid. Jesus christ, people. Your quite cushy lives in 2019 are not comparable in this situation. Not at all.

Every defense contractor requires badging in and out. Nothing was cushy and nothing is new or harder for you. Timecards are as old as time. Get over your stupid self.

This! My work checked all of those boxes pre, during and post Covid. And speaking of cushy, a friend who works for the FDA and is worried about losing her job/bemoaning RTO in March told me last night at our kids' basketball practice (that I practically killed myself to get home in time to get to) that today is her Friday since she "works" remote tomorrow.

This doesn’t even make sense?! What does her “Friday” even mean. Why are you upset she has managed to find a job that allows her work/life balance.

Because as a taxpayer, I (NP) shouldn’t pay for her individual luxury of “balance.” I and apparently millions of others would prefer to pay her a part-time salary and no federal benefits — because she is in fact working part time.

Whether she wants to be all-in and miss games or lean out and watch basketball doesn’t matter to me. Her fraudulence is the problem.

A) You don't pay my salary, which is fee-funded.
B) Your payment of any fed's salary is miniscule, at best.
C) you're paying for work. If the work is getting done, the "where" is not your business. And for many feds, and all feds at my former agency, getting the work done at home worked perfectly.

None of that is fraud. You're just a bitter old hag.

I mean, I'm not the one who's bitter here. I have a fantastic close-in SFH and a 10 minute commute to my federal workplace. The nature of our work means we've been in-person all along.

It's the HR, IT and credentialing people at my agency who are bitter, because they've all been called back and will need to produce work now in a way that conforms with their PD. Their 90 minute drive and childcare stress isn't my concern.

Sure you are bitter. You're pissed someone had a better gig than you. I know I had a better gig than you. I was an attorney, making decent money, and working solely at home. I had not parking, dry cleaning, childcare, etc. issues. My bar dues were paid for. I had ISP reimbursement. And received numerous performance awards b/c I was working and working well. (And FTR, I'm in a fantastic SFH home in an amazing neighborhood that isn't Arlington, but also not an Exburb. My home is worth a million bucks and we paid about $300K for it 25 years ago and it is paid off. So, don't worry about my living arrangement, we're fine).

Trump wanted me to come back 5 days (in addition to other things that I didn't like, like the blatant illegal actions being taken) and I qualified for early retirement. So I took it. The only loss is my agency and the people who relied on me to do my work. But, as you say, that's not my concern. I'm coming out of this just fine. But you're still a bitter, nosy hag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it amusing that women want school to be all day to “help” working women.

But nearly all teachers are women and most have kids. Who will watch their kids when they are working all day?

Also amusing are complaints about day care costs. Daycare workers are almost 100 percent women and insanely underpaid with almost no benefits. They are way overworked in a stressful hard job for very little pay and working moms want them to get paid even less and work longer hours.

I don’t think making it worse for teachers and daycare workers is the answer.

Literally nobody wants school to be all day long to help working women. Working parents want adequate and affordable childcare.