If you went to top schools but your kids are attending a lower tier, are you worried about downward mobility?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, but the only ivy grads I know who are rich had rich parents.

Statistically speaking this is common, in part because income is correlated with IQ. SAT scores are strongly correlated with general intelligence and intelligence is highly heritable (more than 50%). https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5985927/

Life is not fair and people with rich parents are a little bit smarter on average because they also got their parents genes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What year is your kid and what schools are they interested in?

My child is in early high school. For me, George Washington University is the line.

What is there rigor and extracurriculars like?

Academically strong, top of their class, and very involved in extracurriculars. leadership roles, competitive sports. They’re on track to meet my expectations. I won't settle.

Do you verbalize your expectations or just thoughts you keep to yourself? Are they a people pleaser type personality? I get you won’t settle. What matters is if they decide to as you can’t control them. I genuinely think if you’re at risk of alienating your child and harming their trajectory. If they are as you say, they will be just fine, so be supportive and kind.

I do verbalize my expectations clearly. They know what’s at stake, and they’re not a people pleaser type. they’ve always been driven. If they choose to fall short, though, it’s not something I can just accept. I’ll have to make hard choices, and I’m prepared for that.

If they are not a people pleaser and early in high school, a lot of hormones are coming, and we as parents become less influential than their peers as much as we don’t always like it. Would you accept IU Kelley business school that is very well regarded and a couple slots away from GW or is it a hard cut-off?

I understand the peer influence factor, but my standard is clear. IU Kelley is a strong school, but it’s not good enough. I want them at a level where they’re pushed, and I don’t think Kelley meets that for me.

I’d aim much higher than GW then if you’re going to be this hardcore.

GW is the baseline for me, it gives a little margin for error, but anything below that means I’m not getting the results I need. If they can’t meet that standard, it’s something I won’t be able to accept, and I’d have to take personal measures.

GW is a diploma mill. They don’t even require SAT scores and they are automatically admitting people for having a pulse to boost enrollment. People can literally get admitted automatically without even applying to GMU for having a 3.25 GPA if they went to a bad high school at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an attorney and both my kids have learning disabilities and are ND, so I expect that they will be "downwardly mobile". As of right now, neither one of them wants to have children, so that will make their lives easier and less expensive.

For my Junior, we are working on a plan that will get him into a job that he is qualified for and that should pay well enough for a lifestyle that he can maintain. I will be able to give him some "starting out money" and I should be able to help him out financially if needed. We talk about what he could reasonably afford, the skills that he should really learn if he wants to have a better home than he can afford (e.g., carpentry), and money management.

I don't really worry about the fact that he won't make as much money as me. As long as he is happy and can support himself, I'll be happy.

I find it sad you think ND is a bad college. My cousin went to Notre Dame and is doing great, Go Irish!

ND = neurodivergent

Yes, thank you, PP. In this context, it means Neurodivergent. I don't at all think that Notre Dame is a bad college!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, but the only ivy grads I know who are rich had rich parents.

Statistically speaking this is common, in part because income is correlated with IQ. SAT scores are strongly correlated with general intelligence and intelligence is highly heritable (more than 50%). https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5985927/

Life is not fair and people with rich parents are a little bit smarter on average because they also got their parents genes.

Income is also correlated with being able to pay for private schools, tutoring, expensive sports, and other enrichment to cultivate the right kind of college applicant profile. There are plenty of smart kids who go to not-elite schools because they didn't have those opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are you handling the real possibility of your kids experiencing downward mobility?

If you went to top schools and are living in a neighborhood/area/house and have a lifestyle similar to the t20->t6->big law partner path or an analogous path in your sector and your kid is going to Clemson, are they aware of the much narrower chance for them to have the same lifestyle as you

Since I went to a state, directional type school I'm actually worried that my kids are going to attend a better school than me and experience downward mobility. I'm always embarrassed for elite educated low earners. I really hope that I'm not raising one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, but the only ivy grads I know who are rich had rich parents.

Statistically speaking this is common, in part because income is correlated with IQ. SAT scores are strongly correlated with general intelligence and intelligence is highly heritable (more than 50%). https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5985927/

Life is not fair and people with rich parents are a little bit smarter on average because they also got their parents genes.

Income is also correlated with being able to pay for private schools, tutoring, expensive sports, and other enrichment to cultivate the right kind of college applicant profile. There are plenty of smart kids who go to not-elite schools because they didn't have those opportunities.

Yes, that is true but you are reversing causality to some extent. Those behaviors are in part attributable to parents underlying cognitive ability rather than the cause of their children’s IQs. The parenting behaviors are correlated more so due to shared genes (between parents and children) instead of environment. Unless you believe that the genetic heritability of intelligence is zero, it is basically impossible that individual income differences do not have a partially genetic component. Any economic system that sorts people based on heritable characteristics will have genetic stratification over time due to assortative mating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, but the only ivy grads I know who are rich had rich parents.

Statistically speaking this is common, in part because income is correlated with IQ. SAT scores are strongly correlated with general intelligence and intelligence is highly heritable (more than 50%). https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5985927/

Life is not fair and people with rich parents are a little bit smarter on average because they also got their parents genes.

Income is also correlated with being able to pay for private schools, tutoring, expensive sports, and other enrichment to cultivate the right kind of college applicant profile. There are plenty of smart kids who go to not-elite schools because they didn't have those opportunities.

Yes, that is true but you are reversing causality to some extent. Those behaviors are in part attributable to parents underlying cognitive ability rather than the cause of their children’s IQs. The parenting behaviors are correlated more so due to shared genes (between parents and children) instead of environment. Unless you believe that the genetic heritability of intelligence is zero, it is basically impossible that individual income differences do not have a partially genetic component. Any economic system that sorts people based on heritable characteristics will have genetic stratification over time due to assortative mating.

So my smart kid is going to be equally intelligent no matter what college they attend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, but the only ivy grads I know who are rich had rich parents.

Statistically speaking this is common, in part because income is correlated with IQ. SAT scores are strongly correlated with general intelligence and intelligence is highly heritable (more than 50%). https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5985927/

Life is not fair and people with rich parents are a little bit smarter on average because they also got their parents genes.

Income is also correlated with being able to pay for private schools, tutoring, expensive sports, and other enrichment to cultivate the right kind of college applicant profile. There are plenty of smart kids who go to not-elite schools because they didn't have those opportunities.

Yes, that is true but you are reversing causality to some extent. Those behaviors are in part attributable to parents underlying cognitive ability rather than the cause of their children’s IQs. The parenting behaviors are correlated more so due to shared genes (between parents and children) instead of environment. Unless you believe that the genetic heritability of intelligence is zero, it is basically impossible that individual income differences do not have a partially genetic component. Any economic system that sorts people based on heritable characteristics will have genetic stratification over time due to assortative mating.

So my smart kid is going to be equally intelligent no matter what college they attend?

Yes, education has almost no impact on adult IQ and intelligence is very stable by the time someone is 17 or 18. That being said the opportunities are better at elite colleges. However, your kid is significantly more likely to have an exceptional outcome (Top 1% income) if they attend and an elite school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, but the only ivy grads I know who are rich had rich parents.

Statistically speaking this is common, in part because income is correlated with IQ. SAT scores are strongly correlated with general intelligence and intelligence is highly heritable (more than 50%). https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5985927/

Life is not fair and people with rich parents are a little bit smarter on average because they also got their parents genes.

Income is also correlated with being able to pay for private schools, tutoring, expensive sports, and other enrichment to cultivate the right kind of college applicant profile. There are plenty of smart kids who go to not-elite schools because they didn't have those opportunities.

Yes, that is true but you are reversing causality to some extent. Those behaviors are in part attributable to parents underlying cognitive ability rather than the cause of their children’s IQs. The parenting behaviors are correlated more so due to shared genes (between parents and children) instead of environment. Unless you believe that the genetic heritability of intelligence is zero, it is basically impossible that individual income differences do not have a partially genetic component. Any economic system that sorts people based on heritable characteristics will have genetic stratification over time due to assortative mating.

So my smart kid is going to be equally intelligent no matter what college they attend?

Yes. And with very few exceptions, equally educated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are you handling the real possibility of your kids experiencing downward mobility?

If you went to top schools and are living in a neighborhood/area/house and have a lifestyle similar to the t20->t6->big law partner path or an analogous path in your sector and your kid is going to Clemson, are they aware of the much narrower chance for them to have the same lifestyle as you

What is t6?

[Anonymous]

I went to Duke. No one educated in my family. Met my wife there. I was poor with no privilege. I did well athletically and academically there but always felt I was an imposter. My law review editor colleague, a top athlete from Dartmouth and a great student, used to call ourselves the imposters. Generational wealth would have helped, but we laughed about it.

Our kids were better students than we were (Princeton). I vaguely heard that offspring regress to the mean but not the case with us. Not sure it mattered - we did not get involved in their college search and just let them do their own thing. We paid but it was their thing, and not ours.

I likely would have paid for it, but always wonder about a place like Oberlin with one of the worst social mobility rankings in the country. Query what social mobility looks like if you filter out the conservatory at Oberlin. But if you are well off it strikes me as a school to examine closely.

[Anonymous]

Given how much harder it is to get into college now than it was 30 years ago, it’s very common in some circles for families to have kids who attend schools that are Lower-ranked than their parents’ alma maters. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the kids will have a lower standard of living. There are so many variables and unknowns - choice of major, choice of spouse, choice of city/geography, technology, health circumstances, family circumstances, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What year is your kid and what schools are they interested in?

My child is in early high school. For me, George Washington University is the line.

What is there rigor and extracurriculars like?

Academically strong, top of their class, and very involved in extracurriculars. leadership roles, competitive sports. They’re on track to meet my expectations. I won't settle.

Do you verbalize your expectations or just thoughts you keep to yourself? Are they a people pleaser type personality? I get you won’t settle. What matters is if they decide to as you can’t control them. I genuinely think if you’re at risk of alienating your child and harming their trajectory. If they are as you say, they will be just fine, so be supportive and kind.

I do verbalize my expectations clearly. They know what’s at stake, and they’re not a people pleaser type. they’ve always been driven. If they choose to fall short, though, it’s not something I can just accept. I’ll have to make hard choices, and I’m prepared for that.

If they are not a people pleaser and early in high school, a lot of hormones are coming, and we as parents become less influential than their peers as much as we don’t always like it. Would you accept IU Kelley business school that is very well regarded and a couple slots away from GW or is it a hard cut-off?

I understand the peer influence factor, but my standard is clear. IU Kelley is a strong school, but it’s not good enough. I want them at a level where they’re pushed, and I don’t think Kelley meets that for me.

Funny….I’m a t200 State school guy. Built an amazing investment business and I have 4 GW kids working for me kissing my ass….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What year is your kid and what schools are they interested in?

My child is in early high school. For me, George Washington University is the line.

What is there rigor and extracurriculars like?

Academically strong, top of their class, and very involved in extracurriculars. leadership roles, competitive sports. They’re on track to meet my expectations. I won't settle.

Do you verbalize your expectations or just thoughts you keep to yourself? Are they a people pleaser type personality? I get you won’t settle. What matters is if they decide to as you can’t control them. I genuinely think if you’re at risk of alienating your child and harming their trajectory. If they are as you say, they will be just fine, so be supportive and kind.

I do verbalize my expectations clearly. They know what’s at stake, and they’re not a people pleaser type. they’ve always been driven. If they choose to fall short, though, it’s not something I can just accept. I’ll have to make hard choices, and I’m prepared for that.

If they are not a people pleaser and early in high school, a lot of hormones are coming, and we as parents become less influential than their peers as much as we don’t always like it. Would you accept IU Kelley business school that is very well regarded and a couple slots away from GW or is it a hard cut-off?

I understand the peer influence factor, but my standard is clear. IU Kelley is a strong school, but it’s not good enough. I want them at a level where they’re pushed, and I don’t think Kelley meets that for me.

Funny….I’m a t200 State school guy. Built an amazing investment business and I have 4 GW kids working for me kissing my ass….

Good for you. But I want what’s best for my kid, and GW is the bar. No compromises. If they don’t make it, I’ll have no reason to stick around. Simple as that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What year is your kid and what schools are they interested in?

My child is in early high school. For me, George Washington University is the line.

What is there rigor and extracurriculars like?

Academically strong, top of their class, and very involved in extracurriculars. leadership roles, competitive sports. They’re on track to meet my expectations. I won't settle.

Do you verbalize your expectations or just thoughts you keep to yourself? Are they a people pleaser type personality? I get you won’t settle. What matters is if they decide to as you can’t control them. I genuinely think if you’re at risk of alienating your child and harming their trajectory. If they are as you say, they will be just fine, so be supportive and kind.

I do verbalize my expectations clearly. They know what’s at stake, and they’re not a people pleaser type. they’ve always been driven. If they choose to fall short, though, it’s not something I can just accept. I’ll have to make hard choices, and I’m prepared for that.

If they are not a people pleaser and early in high school, a lot of hormones are coming, and we as parents become less influential than their peers as much as we don’t always like it. Would you accept IU Kelley business school that is very well regarded and a couple slots away from GW or is it a hard cut-off?

I understand the peer influence factor, but my standard is clear. IU Kelley is a strong school, but it’s not good enough. I want them at a level where they’re pushed, and I don’t think Kelley meets that for me.

Funny….I’m a t200 State school guy. Built an amazing investment business and I have 4 GW kids working for me kissing my ass….

Good for you. But I want what’s best for my kid, and GW is the bar. No compromises. If they don’t make it, I’ll have no reason to stick around. Simple as that.

We get it. Give it a rest.