Why aren’t males attending college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used to teach men that discipline was necessary for a quality life and successful career. Now people complain of it being “anti-male” to discipline boys rightfully for erratic behavior. I do think more boys would benefit from an all male environment, since girls are socialized to be more disciplined and still than men.

Counterpoint, for generations we kept women out of academics when they are far capable both there and in any thing that requires time management and executive function. The guys will experience discipline in their gigs driving for Amazon and Doordash.

Yes, this. I don't think it's "anti-male" to acknowledge this and say to them "sorry, if you don't have the grades and ability to take up a spot in XXX college, then you shouldn't." Especially since they are at least being judged on their merits instead of arbitrarily excluded like women were for generations.

By what metrics are women being judged on their merits? You need to move past the patriarchy is bad drivel. Girls do slighlty better on grades and slightly worse on standardized testing like the SAT. Definitely not what you'd expect from the admission percentages quoted earlier.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06292-0
https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf

If boys and girls do about the same in high school, it is legitimate to ask why the university enrollment doesnt reflect that.

Why though? No one asked, or more to the point cared, when college enrollment didn't have enough women?

Here, men and boys are already given more consideration than women ever did. Yet somehow we are supposed to all of a sudden be concerned. As well as blame "inherently male" characteristics, blame female teachers, blame all sorts of things. So fine - ask. But don't expect some of us to care all that much.

People have cared a lot about helping women in higher education for over 50 years. Title IX became law in 1972. The gender balance in college is now more lopsided today than it was back then, just in the opposite direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Males are also risk takers. Many of the tech giants left college before completion and went onto huge success. Other than Elizabeth Holmes (sorry truly awful example), I can't think of another woman that left college early to launch a tech company/start up. It could be that women feel the degree (or actually need it) due to inherent biases in vc and silicon valley--not sure.

Most of these people who dropped out to start companies came from wealthy, professional families. You need some family wealth to mitigate the risk walking away from your degree at a good school. Most of these entrepreneurs did have family wealth to fall back on if their idea was a flop (eg. Musk, Holmes, Gates, etc.). You don't see middle class or poor (either males or females) taking that kind of risk and walking away from a year or more of tuition as often.

The Musk myth isn't true. He actually didn't come from any $$$s. Holmes' dad worked at Enron and lost most of his money in the Enron collapse.

Jeff Bezos made a bunch of money at a hedge fund before starting Amazon, but didn't come from much (his mom gave birth to him in HS and eventually married a mid-level IT guy). Zuckerberg's dad is a dentist..sure, UMC but his parents weren't thrilled when he dropped out. Larry Ellison came from nothing...Harold Hamm came from abject poverty (not SV).

I actually don't really buy your thesis because SV has lots of kids that either drop out or don't even attempt to go to college from the start, working at many companies. If you drop-out of college and get VC funding for a start-up, that is a badge of honor. Nobody cares that you didn't get your degree.

Errol Musk (Elon's father) said that Elon rebranded as a non-trust fund kid for better optics, but he's gone on record to say emerald mines did pay for Musk's move to the US (Queen's U/UPenn) here. Elon's father has refuted Elon's account.

See here:

You know that supposed Musk family-owned emerald mine that Elon has recently been saying is just a rumor, despite previously saying on record that the mine definitely existed?

"I will pay a million Dogecoin for proof of this mine's existence!" Musk tweeted earlier this month, similarly complaining back in January that "the fake emerald mine thing is so annoying (sigh)."
Well, according to Errol Musk, the unsurprisingly eccentric — and in one major way, extremely creepy — father of Elon, the mine definitely exists. And come to think of it, he'll take that Dogecoin, thanks!

"When I read that, I wondered, 'Can I enter, because I can prove it existed," Errol told in a new interview, referring to his son's Dogecoin tweet. "Elon knows it's true. All the kids know about it."

"Elon saw them (the emeralds) at our house," he added. "He knew I was selling them."

The emerald mine is a particularly strange piece of Muskian lore — not strange due to the mine's existence per se, but because of Elon's more recent decision to suddenly and completely backtrack on his previous claims.

Per his new Sun interview, however, Errol seems intent on setting the record straight, explaining to the tabloid that he happened upon the Italian owner of the mine at a Zambian airstrip that said Italian also owned. The Italian apparently told Errol that he paid Zambian locals to dig for the gems, and Errol decided to go into business with the gentleman (you know, as one does.)

"What Elon is saying is that there was no formal mine. It was a rock formation protruding from the ground in the middle of nowhere," Errol told the tabloid, noting that he kept his involvement with the operation "under the table."

"There was no mining company. There are no signed agreements or financial statements," he explained. "No one owned anything. The deal was done on a handshake with the Italian man at a time when Zambia was a free for all."

Errol went as far as to say that emerald money paid for his son's move to the US, where Elon would go on to attend the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton Business School on scholarship — with, apparently, emerald-generated cash in his pocket for living expenses. In other words, according to the senior Musk, it sounds a lot like Elon's entire road to wealth and fame beyond South Africa was paved with Zambian emeralds.

"During that time," said Errol, speaking to Elon's college years, "I managed to send money I made from emerald sales to him and [Elon's brother, Kimbal Musk] for living expenses."

Look, Errol isn't at all a capital Good Dude, and the Musk family is seemingly pretty strained. But somehow, "I met a random Italian on an airstrip and got into emerald mining from there" seems to check out for these folks, and some clarity on behalf of the world's second-richest man — who doesn't exactly have the soundest relationship to truth himself — would be welcome.



And as for why Errol thinks his son won't just admit that the mine was real?

"Elon's main concern is not to appear to be a 'trust fund kid' who got everything given to him on a plate," Errol told the tabloid, though did add that the belief that his son was born with a silver — or, well, emerald — spoon in his mouth "isn't true."

[Anonymous]

Maybe men should be placed a year behind girls to catch up developmentally

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men should be placed a year behind girls to catch up developmentally

Richard Reeves has proposed this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men should be placed a year behind girls to catch up developmentally

So my sons both easily excelled in school and had zero behavioral or social or developmental issues.

That said, one has a bday right after the cutoff (so old for the grade). He turned 19 after the 9/1 cutoff he had for K and went to college at 19.

Just in terms of maturation, I see a big difference between him and my April bday son. He's a Jr in HS and thriving and straight As too --but just the social factors he seems much younger this Jr year than his brother did. I am hearing from many friends of boys with late bdays (later than both my kids) that went to college 'on time' that they are struggling a bit (socially/academically, etc) when they left for college at 17 or the month they turned 18. I really think there is a big difference. Is it true for all boys---no--I am sure there are plenty who have no issues. This is my own anecdotal --take it however you want. Teens today are also behind on many social markers--leftover from Covid and a lot to do with social media/screens, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Losers

They want to be a stay at home parent like you. Your daughter can support them.

Successful smart, college educated, good career men have even more women to choose from since they are a shrinking minority.

Yes - this is absolutely true. But, what this trend really means is many successful women are stuck with a sea of duds that expect them to be moms to them, as well as the kids, AND bring home the money. It's sad that it has come to this. Long ago, public education in particular abandoned our sons.

So, men who didn't go to college are "a sea of duds?" Do you even hear yourself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many of the colleges we have looked at have gender imbalances with higher rates of females. What’s happening?

Because the males got a cult leader who told them it's ok they don't go to college/it's not their fault.

[Anonymous]

And women got Hillary who was smart, driven, attained higher education, degrees and told young girls they can do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men should be placed a year behind girls to catch up developmentally

So my sons both easily excelled in school and had zero behavioral or social or developmental issues.

That said, one has a bday right after the cutoff (so old for the grade). He turned 19 after the 9/1 cutoff he had for K and went to college at 19.

Just in terms of maturation, I see a big difference between him and my April bday son. He's a Jr in HS and thriving and straight As too --but just the social factors he seems much younger this Jr year than his brother did. I am hearing from many friends of boys with late bdays (later than both my kids) that went to college 'on time' that they are struggling a bit (socially/academically, etc) when they left for college at 17 or the month they turned 18. I really think there is a big difference. Is it true for all boys---no--I am sure there are plenty who have no issues. This is my own anecdotal --take it however you want. Teens today are also behind on many social markers--leftover from Covid and a lot to do with social media/screens, etc.

It's very interesting. My early fall birthday DS wasn't even close to the oldest boy in his class at his private school. They would rarely take a boy born after April (told them to wait another year). They do it because they can.

We have a relative who is a female that is 6 months younger than my DS but in the same class year. They both did well academically, but the interesting thing is that she was always more mature socially than my son, but now they're Juniors in college, my son has caught up and now seems more mature than her, in many ways. It's like he became an "adult" in a matter of months and she's stuck at "college student."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Losers

They want to be a stay at home parent like you. Your daughter can support them.

Successful smart, college educated, good career men have even more women to choose from since they are a shrinking minority.

Yes - this is absolutely true. But, what this trend really means is many successful women are stuck with a sea of duds that expect them to be moms to them, as well as the kids, AND bring home the money. It's sad that it has come to this. Long ago, public education in particular abandoned our sons.

So, men who didn't go to college are "a sea of duds?" Do you even hear yourself?

We need to stop thinking of college vs. non-college, but rather educated/skilled vs. uneducated and unskilled. An electrician didn't go to college, but their training didn't stop at high school. They are skilled. Same with all in the trades.

That said, there is a very large contingent of MC/LMC men that are uneducated and unskilled. This group used to be able to go work for the car company and acquire skills on the job...however, that's not a viable path these days. Even manufacturing apprenticeship programs with Mercedes and other companies expect you to have strong math and computer skills and other attributes to even hire you into the program.

[Anonymous]

Men can make more money than women even without a college degree, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men should be placed a year behind girls to catch up developmentally

So they can be even smarter than girls when they graduate? That would suck for college admissions and they'd have to make the process even more "holistic" for the benefit of girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men should be placed a year behind girls to catch up developmentally

So my sons both easily excelled in school and had zero behavioral or social or developmental issues.

That said, one has a bday right after the cutoff (so old for the grade). He turned 19 after the 9/1 cutoff he had for K and went to college at 19.

Just in terms of maturation, I see a big difference between him and my April bday son. He's a Jr in HS and thriving and straight As too --but just the social factors he seems much younger this Jr year than his brother did. I am hearing from many friends of boys with late bdays (later than both my kids) that went to college 'on time' that they are struggling a bit (socially/academically, etc) when they left for college at 17 or the month they turned 18. I really think there is a big difference. Is it true for all boys---no--I am sure there are plenty who have no issues. This is my own anecdotal --take it however you want. Teens today are also behind on many social markers--leftover from Covid and a lot to do with social media/screens, etc.

It's very interesting. My early fall birthday DS wasn't even close to the oldest boy in his class at his private school. They would rarely take a boy born after April (told them to wait another year). They do it because they can. "

same

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Men can make more money than women even without a college degree, unfortunately.

I can't think of any such career open to men but not women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Losers

They want to be a stay at home parent like you. Your daughter can support them.

Successful smart, college educated, good career men have even more women to choose from since they are a shrinking minority.

Yes - this is absolutely true. But, what this trend really means is many successful women are stuck with a sea of duds that expect them to be moms to them, as well as the kids, AND bring home the money. It's sad that it has come to this. Long ago, public education in particular abandoned our sons.

So, men who didn't go to college are "a sea of duds?" Do you even hear yourself?

We need to stop thinking of college vs. non-college, but rather educated/skilled vs. uneducated and unskilled. An electrician didn't go to college, but their training didn't stop at high school. They are skilled. Same with all in the trades.

That said, there is a very large contingent of MC/LMC men that are uneducated and unskilled. This group used to be able to go work for the car company and acquire skills on the job...however, that's not a viable path these days. Even manufacturing apprenticeship programs with Mercedes and other companies expect you to have strong math and computer skills and other attributes to even hire you into the program.

+1000

One of my three kids attended high school in Australia. In Year10, those who choose to enter the trades are offered terrific practical skills based coursework, business practices, and apprenticeship for Years 11 and 12. It is free, many of the classes take place in the same school as the traditional students, which keeps social development in tact.

They graduate at 18 with valuable skills, a resume and a pathway. It is respected and a fine choice.

We are doing it wrong.