Will there be fewer applicants to Harvard, Penn, MIT next year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe Jewish people have fumbled the bag so much. Any sympathy they had about the attack has been squandered by their reactions to it. Not just the state of Isreal but Jewish American celebrites and donors. No one feels sympathy anymore.

I feel enormous sympathy and judging by the polls, so do the majority of Americans. Loud weirdo progressives are still the minority thankfully.

I definitely have sympathy for the Israelis who suffered this atrocious terrorism. But I also have sympathy for the thousands of Palestinian civilians that are being killed and the Muslims in America that have been targeted and killed or paralyzed. My Jewish friends have been posting these ridiculously close minded things. They side entirely with Israel, despite being Americans, and do not care about the attacks on civilians or Americans. They think their kids feel unsafe from words and don’t have any empathy for others. It’s so disappointing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Definitely not for MIT.

I think some students and families will reconsider Penn. Many actually. This has been a disaster for Penn.

Harvard gets the brass ring students. It's been like that for a while. The goal is Harvard. That's all that matters. The nuances of genocide is not going to dissuade them. There are tons of amoral high stats well-connected kids who will take that apex degree.

For every Jewish kid that wavers about Penn, there are about 5 Asian kids with identical stats dying to get in

Jews aren’t going to turn down Penn for Alabama

More like 55 for every one, but yeah.

Exactly right. The Ivies will continue to attract top students and maybe now more AAPI will be admitted.

Makes me wonder who is promoting threads like this. People with ulterior motives?

Because the Jewish people we know IRL who are alumni and/or have kids at Penn want to see an appropriate correction; they are not cutting ties over this.

This. The alumni are making their voices heard but that doesn't mean they don't want their kids and grandkids never to go there.

Disagree….growing movement in my Jewish community to find viable Ed alternatives that are truly safe for our kids.

My what’s app groups post 10/7 are filled with this topic

Dramatic much? Try living in Gaza or Ukraine or Congo for a day. Then you will know what being unsafe actually means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe the Ivy schools were already in decline other than legacy kids who wouldn’t have stood a prayer otherwise. But I do think there are more smart kids today choosing NOT to go to an Ivy and in todays climate will continue to choose a diff path.

They are getting more applications and the stats of those admitted are going up. I'm sure there are other ways to measure "decline" but you should explain.

I can remember actual dumpster fires over the Vietnam War. This kind of crazy stuff is almost normal at Ivy League schools. At least since the sixties.

Eh. The number of applications and stats have been up everywhere,

The testimony by the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and MIT were a real dumpster fire. Smart kids have been moving away from ivy league schools for a while. Impossible to get in without a hook. And then there's a sense you have to walk on egg shells for four years.

Most kids will say no thank you to that environment.

It's not like you can't get a decent education at Michigan, Rice, Northwestern, Duke, Berkeley, CalTech, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Chicago, and so on and so forth. Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, West Point, Pomona, Annapolis, Swarthmore.

The Ivy League ain't all that. Except for the Cornell School of Hotel Administration. And I mean that genuinely. Very cool program.

They might lose some Jewish applicants but it won't deter most.

I think that it will.

Principled parents of long shot kids are going to reassess whether they want to send their $100.00 application fee "just to see what happens" to these schools that have created an environment that has allowed antisemitism to flourish without condemnation by the leaders or punishment/expulsion of the students, while all other forms of free speech have been supressed.

Many of those families will choose to spend their precious dollars elsewhere.

The worst was MIT a couple of weeks ago saying quietly that because many of the most virulent antisemite protesters were at the school on student visas, they would not be punished under the student conduct code, because the suspension that their behavior would usually result in would mean they would lose their student visas.

The Penn and Harvard presidents were abhorrent. If MIT has truly taken the approach of protecting these guest students over protecting their American Jewish kids, then they are much worse.

Young people say stupid stuff all the time while trying to figure things out. I think it’s cruel to end their dream and revoke their visa because they made an unfortunate comment. Odds are the American kids (who won the lottery at birth) have never and will never experience even 1% of the struggles students from a third or developing country have.

I suspect most of the international students in question at these schools are the filthy rich 0.1%. Very few if any are the poor underprivileged that you are thinking of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe the Ivy schools were already in decline other than legacy kids who wouldn’t have stood a prayer otherwise. But I do think there are more smart kids today choosing NOT to go to an Ivy and in todays climate will continue to choose a diff path.

They are getting more applications and the stats of those admitted are going up. I'm sure there are other ways to measure "decline" but you should explain.

I can remember actual dumpster fires over the Vietnam War. This kind of crazy stuff is almost normal at Ivy League schools. At least since the sixties.

Eh. The number of applications and stats have been up everywhere,

The testimony by the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and MIT were a real dumpster fire. Smart kids have been moving away from ivy league schools for a while. Impossible to get in without a hook. And then there's a sense you have to walk on egg shells for four years.

Most kids will say no thank you to that environment.

It's not like you can't get a decent education at Michigan, Rice, Northwestern, Duke, Berkeley, CalTech, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Chicago, and so on and so forth. Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, West Point, Pomona, Annapolis, Swarthmore.

The Ivy League ain't all that. Except for the Cornell School of Hotel Administration. And I mean that genuinely. Very cool program.

They might lose some Jewish applicants but it won't deter most.

I think that it will.

Principled parents of long shot kids are going to reassess whether they want to send their $100.00 application fee "just to see what happens" to these schools that have created an environment that has allowed antisemitism to flourish without condemnation by the leaders or punishment/expulsion of the students, while all other forms of free speech have been supressed.

Many of those families will choose to spend their precious dollars elsewhere.

The worst was MIT a couple of weeks ago saying quietly that because many of the most virulent antisemite protesters were at the school on student visas, they would not be punished under the student conduct code, because the suspension that their behavior would usually result in would mean they would lose their student visas.

The Penn and Harvard presidents were abhorrent. If MIT has truly taken the approach of protecting these guest students over protecting their American Jewish kids, then they are much worse.

Young people say stupid stuff all the time while trying to figure things out. I think it’s cruel to end their dream and revoke their visa because they made an unfortunate comment. Odds are the American kids (who won the lottery at birth) have never and will never experience even 1% of the struggles students from a third or developing country have.

International students that come to the U.S. to study from a third world or developing countries are some of the wealthiest and most privileged in their countries. I know a guy who used to have his dad’s soldiers give him shoulder rubs and fetch him drinks.

And they didn’t just make comment. They actively blocked Jewish and other students from attending their classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rep. Stefanik used this hearing to distract from Liz Cheney's book which revealed that Rep. Stefanik was upset with Cheney for voting for impeachment. Apparently, some of Stefanik's constituents were writing letters to the Editor of their local papers asking why Stefanik was not taking the same principled stand as Cheney. I can't believe people are falling for it. She's actually using Jews to cover her arse.

https://www.timesunion.com/capitol/article/rep-stefanik-dubbed-trump-sycophant-new-liz-18535454.php

Give me a break. It was a softball question that somehow the presidents WERE able to answer in the following days but couldn’t the day of the hearing. Trying to turn this into a tirade against Stefanik won’t fly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meh. There will be no drop off in applications. Except for a tiny minority of parents, nobody will discourage their children from attending or applying to Harvard etc because of this - fewer people care about Israel than many would like to admit. Their multibillion endowments will not miss a beat.

What happened in Israel is horrific, but the Israeli response has been equally awful (if not worse). These places are not toxic for not automatically supporting Israel. Sorry but Jewish people do not deserve any more sympathy than others.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe the Ivy schools were already in decline other than legacy kids who wouldn’t have stood a prayer otherwise. But I do think there are more smart kids today choosing NOT to go to an Ivy and in todays climate will continue to choose a diff path.

They are getting more applications and the stats of those admitted are going up. I'm sure there are other ways to measure "decline" but you should explain.

I was an international student on a full scholarship at one of those institutions. I know exactly what I’m speaking of.

I can remember actual dumpster fires over the Vietnam War. This kind of crazy stuff is almost normal at Ivy League schools. At least since the sixties.

Eh. The number of applications and stats have been up everywhere,

The testimony by the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and MIT were a real dumpster fire. Smart kids have been moving away from ivy league schools for a while. Impossible to get in without a hook. And then there's a sense you have to walk on egg shells for four years.

Most kids will say no thank you to that environment.

It's not like you can't get a decent education at Michigan, Rice, Northwestern, Duke, Berkeley, CalTech, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Chicago, and so on and so forth. Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, West Point, Pomona, Annapolis, Swarthmore.

The Ivy League ain't all that. Except for the Cornell School of Hotel Administration. And I mean that genuinely. Very cool program.

They might lose some Jewish applicants but it won't deter most.

I think that it will.

Principled parents of long shot kids are going to reassess whether they want to send their $100.00 application fee "just to see what happens" to these schools that have created an environment that has allowed antisemitism to flourish without condemnation by the leaders or punishment/expulsion of the students, while all other forms of free speech have been supressed.

Many of those families will choose to spend their precious dollars elsewhere.

The worst was MIT a couple of weeks ago saying quietly that because many of the most virulent antisemite protesters were at the school on student visas, they would not be punished under the student conduct code, because the suspension that their behavior would usually result in would mean they would lose their student visas.

The Penn and Harvard presidents were abhorrent. If MIT has truly taken the approach of protecting these guest students over protecting their American Jewish kids, then they are much worse.

Young people say stupid stuff all the time while trying to figure things out. I think it’s cruel to end their dream and revoke their visa because they made an unfortunate comment. Odds are the American kids (who won the lottery at birth) have never and will never experience even 1% of the struggles students from a third or developing country have.

I suspect most of the international students in question at these schools are the filthy rich 0.1%. Very few if any are the poor underprivileged that you are thinking of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe the Ivy schools were already in decline other than legacy kids who wouldn’t have stood a prayer otherwise. But I do think there are more smart kids today choosing NOT to go to an Ivy and in todays climate will continue to choose a diff path.

They are getting more applications and the stats of those admitted are going up. I'm sure there are other ways to measure "decline" but you should explain.

I was an international student on a full scholarship at one of those institutions. I know exactly what I’m speaking of.

I can remember actual dumpster fires over the Vietnam War. This kind of crazy stuff is almost normal at Ivy League schools. At least since the sixties.

Eh. The number of applications and stats have been up everywhere,

The testimony by the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and MIT were a real dumpster fire. Smart kids have been moving away from ivy league schools for a while. Impossible to get in without a hook. And then there's a sense you have to walk on egg shells for four years.

Most kids will say no thank you to that environment.

It's not like you can't get a decent education at Michigan, Rice, Northwestern, Duke, Berkeley, CalTech, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Chicago, and so on and so forth. Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, West Point, Pomona, Annapolis, Swarthmore.

The Ivy League ain't all that. Except for the Cornell School of Hotel Administration. And I mean that genuinely. Very cool program.

They might lose some Jewish applicants but it won't deter most.

I think that it will.

Principled parents of long shot kids are going to reassess whether they want to send their $100.00 application fee "just to see what happens" to these schools that have created an environment that has allowed antisemitism to flourish without condemnation by the leaders or punishment/expulsion of the students, while all other forms of free speech have been supressed.

Many of those families will choose to spend their precious dollars elsewhere.

The worst was MIT a couple of weeks ago saying quietly that because many of the most virulent antisemite protesters were at the school on student visas, they would not be punished under the student conduct code, because the suspension that their behavior would usually result in would mean they would lose their student visas.

The Penn and Harvard presidents were abhorrent. If MIT has truly taken the approach of protecting these guest students over protecting their American Jewish kids, then they are much worse.

Young people say stupid stuff all the time while trying to figure things out. I think it’s cruel to end their dream and revoke their visa because they made an unfortunate comment. Odds are the American kids (who won the lottery at birth) have never and will never experience even 1% of the struggles students from a third or developing country have.

I suspect most of the international students in question at these schools are the filthy rich 0.1%. Very few if any are the poor underprivileged that you are thinking of.

I was an international student on a full scholarship at one of those institutions, and so were many of my foreign friends. I know what I’m speaking of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you're saying Asian kids have a chance?

Jews are 2-3% of the population but are 8-22% of the population at Ivies. This is decline from the past few decades. The under represented group is Hispanic which is a huge and diverse group.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/admissions/2023/05/08/jewish-student-enrollment-down-many-ivies#:~:text=Jewish%20student%20populations%20at%20Harvard,between%2013%20and%2020%20percent.

Alumni and parents of traditionally observant Jewish students at the University of Pennsylvania gathered on Zoom earlier this year with leaders of the university’s Hillel, a campus organization for Jewish students. The meeting was to discuss declining Jewish enrollment, particularly among Orthodox students.

Rabbi Gabe Greenberg, executive director of the Hillel, called the group together that February day after having “dozens if not a hundred” conversations with parents concerned about the shrinkage of Penn’s Jewish population. The campus has historically been known as having among the most robust Jewish communities in the country, with ample resources for students who traditionally observe Shabbat and keep kosher.

Jewish students accounted for about a third of enrollment several decades ago and now make up just roughly 16 percent of the 10,412 undergraduates at Penn. The number of observant students, which reached 200 in the early 2000s, has since dropped to about 70…

… The Jewish Telegraphic Agency, a Jewish news wire service, reported in 1967 that Jewish students had reached high numbers at the Ivies after decades of low enrollments. The news outlet cited a New York Times survey at the time, which found that the student bodies at Columbia University and University of Pennsylvania were 40 percent Jewish. Jewish student populations at Harvard, Yale and Cornell were estimated to be between 20 and 25 percent, while those at Dartmouth, Princeton and Brown hovered between 13 and 20 percent.

Jews now make up 9.9 percent of Harvard’s undergraduate enrollment and 12.2 percent at Yale, according to estimates on Hillel’s website. The share of Jewish students at Columbia University is an estimated 22.3 percent. Roughly 8.8 percent of Dartmouth students, and 9.6 percent of Princeton students, are Jewish. Cornell and Brown are the only two Ivies to buck the trend of significant declines compared to the 1960s, with Jewish students making up 21.5 percent and 23.9 percent, respectively, of the enrollment.[/quote]

Even with the decline those are so real good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rep. Stefanik used this hearing to distract from Liz Cheney's book which revealed that Rep. Stefanik was upset with Cheney for voting for impeachment. Apparently, some of Stefanik's constituents were writing letters to the Editor of their local papers asking why Stefanik was not taking the same principled stand as Cheney. I can't believe people are falling for it. She's actually using Jews to cover her arse.

https://www.timesunion.com/capitol/article/rep-stefanik-dubbed-trump-sycophant-new-liz-18535454.php

Give me a break. It was a softball question that somehow the presidents WERE able to answer in the following days but couldn’t the day of the hearing. Trying to turn this into a tirade against Stefanik won’t fly.

Stefanik is repugnant and a fair weather friend of democratic norms and values. She was for them when it helped her as an UG at Harvard, but she is now against them as she climbs the MAGA leadership ladder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rep. Stefanik used this hearing to distract from Liz Cheney's book which revealed that Rep. Stefanik was upset with Cheney for voting for impeachment. Apparently, some of Stefanik's constituents were writing letters to the Editor of their local papers asking why Stefanik was not taking the same principled stand as Cheney. I can't believe people are falling for it. She's actually using Jews to cover her arse.

https://www.timesunion.com/capitol/article/rep-stefanik-dubbed-trump-sycophant-new-liz-18535454.php

Give me a break. It was a softball question that somehow the presidents WERE able to answer in the following days but couldn’t the day of the hearing. Trying to turn this into a tirade against Stefanik won’t fly.

Stefanik is repugnant and a fair weather friend of democratic norms and values. She was for them when it helped her as an UG at Harvard, but she is now against them as she climbs the MAGA leadership ladder.

Stefanik’s standing has improved in this fiasco whereas the presidents of these schools are on their way out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to be that person, but I went to MIT and have some amazing Jewish friends from that experience. I had zero time for bullsh&t at MIT. The average student was drowning. At no time did I witness or see any type of racism on campus.

That’s nice. But MIT may be in the biggest trouble, because they admitted that they did not follow through with discipline for students violating school rules because they might face visa issues. The biggest legal issue these schools face isn’t based on the 1st Amendment, but rather Civil Rights Act Title VI disparate treatment. If nothing else, the President should be fired for being stupid enough to put something like that in writing. I think the decision itself should be a firing offense, but who is dumb enough to admit it?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/mit-walks-back-threat-suspend-pro-palestinian-students-due-visa-issues

I don't see the issue here at all. Kids protested in a part of campus that MIT, internally, says is off limits. The punishment is decided by them. How is this a civil rights issue at all?

It’s a big nothingburger. There were no calls for genocide at MIT. They protested in the Infinite Corridor blocking students from classes which they shouldn’t have, but that is an internal matter. President Kornbluth is up there for failing to take an attitude of “Israel is 100% right and we will deport anyone who says otherwise”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a link with information on people calling for a genocide ?

It was a hypothetical question which is why it should have been so easy to answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Definitely not for MIT.

I think some students and families will reconsider Penn. Many actually. This has been a disaster for Penn.

Harvard gets the brass ring students. It's been like that for a while. The goal is Harvard. That's all that matters. The nuances of genocide is not going to dissuade them. There are tons of amoral high stats well-connected kids who will take that apex degree.

For every Jewish kid that wavers about Penn, there are about 5 Asian kids with identical stats dying to get in

Jews aren’t going to turn down Penn for Alabama

More like 55 for every one, but yeah.

Exactly right. The Ivies will continue to attract top students and maybe now more AAPI will be admitted.

Makes me wonder who is promoting threads like this. People with ulterior motives?

Because the Jewish people we know IRL who are alumni and/or have kids at Penn want to see an appropriate correction; they are not cutting ties over this.

This. The alumni are making their voices heard but that doesn't mean they don't want their kids and grandkids never to go there.

Disagree….growing movement in my Jewish community to find viable Ed alternatives that are truly safe for our kids.

My what’s app groups post 10/7 are filled with this topic

Dramatic much? Try living in Gaza or Ukraine or Congo for a day. Then you will know what being unsafe actually means.

Thank you. Most Jewish Americans I know are white and live comfortable first world lives. They don’t have bombs raining down on them and they aren’t being shot because of the way they look or dress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a link with information on people calling for a genocide ? Was it students protesting?

I’ve read articles and have seen the pictures but only see signs that say stop the genocide of Palestinians and Free Palestine.

I think it’s upset Jewish Americans for Americans to have so much more sympathy for Palestinians. (Except the Jews for Peace org ).

Israel has crossed too many lines with weak excuses. The majority of Palestinian homes have been destroyed . Thousands killed, babies crushed to death and they are trying to push the Palestinians out of their little area not so they won’t have to let them back in. All the Palestinians have left is hate for the people who did this to them.

And Harvard has billions, no one needs to care about their problems.

Of course nobody accused of calling for a genocide (of the Jews, anyway) has actually said anything of the sort. Rather, their words expressing either compassion for the plight of the Palestinians or opposition to the inhumane war crimes of the State of Israel have been put through the Perpetual Victim 9000 distortion translator and surprise, surprise ... what they REALLY meant was anti-semitic, was celebrating Hamas and their 10/7 atrocities, was calling for the annihilation of Jews, was trying to incite attacks against the U.S., etc.

Meanwhile, plenty of people including Stu Seldowitz, the psycho pediatric cardiologist at JHU, and a few rounding errors here in these threads sure seem to be cheering on an actual genocide in progress, but of the Palestinians).

And you're right. It HAS enraged the racist, apartheid-supporting Zionist segment of American and worldwide Jewry who are so accustomed to occupying all the seats at the all-you-can-eat "Guilt Trip" buffet.

This post and the one it in reply to hit the nail on the head.

American Jews are used to seeing unconditional support for Israel and now that it is more balanced they are feeling targeted. As they say “when you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” I for one welcome the debate.