Will there be fewer applicants to Harvard, Penn, MIT next year?

[Anonymous]

[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe the Ivy schools were already in decline other than legacy kids who wouldn’t have stood a prayer otherwise. But I do think there are more smart kids today choosing NOT to go to an Ivy and in todays climate will continue to choose a diff path.

They are getting more applications and the stats of those admitted are going up. I'm sure there are other ways to measure "decline" but you should explain.

I can remember actual dumpster fires over the Vietnam War. This kind of crazy stuff is almost normal at Ivy League schools. At least since the sixties.

Eh. The number of applications and stats have been up everywhere,

The testimony by the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and MIT were a real dumpster fire. Smart kids have been moving away from ivy league schools for a while. Impossible to get in without a hook. And then there's a sense you have to walk on egg shells for four years.

Most kids will say no thank you to that environment.

It's not like you can't get a decent education at Michigan, Rice, Northwestern, Duke, Berkeley, CalTech, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Chicago, and so on and so forth. Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, West Point, Pomona, Annapolis, Swarthmore.

The Ivy League ain't all that. Except for the Cornell School of Hotel Administration. And I mean that genuinely. Very cool program.

They might lose some Jewish applicants but it won't deter most.

I think that it will.

Principled parents of long shot kids are going to reassess whether they want to send their $100.00 application fee "just to see what happens" to these schools that have created an environment that has allowed antisemitism to flourish without condemnation by the leaders or punishment/expulsion of the students, while all other forms of free speech have been supressed.

Many of those families will choose to spend their precious dollars elsewhere.

The worst was MIT a couple of weeks ago saying quietly that because many of the most virulent antisemite protesters were at the school on student visas, they would not be punished under the student conduct code, because the suspension that their behavior would usually result in would mean they would lose their student visas.

The Penn and Harvard presidents were abhorrent. If MIT has truly taken the approach of protecting these guest students over protecting their American Jewish kids, then they are much worse.

Young people say stupid stuff all the time while trying to figure things out. I think it’s cruel to end their dream and revoke their visa because they made an unfortunate comment. Odds are the American kids (who won the lottery at birth) have never and will never experience even 1% of the struggles students from a third or developing country have.

I suspect most of the international students in question at these schools are the filthy rich 0.1%. Very few if any are the poor underprivileged that you are thinking of.

Certainly some are but plenty are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe the Ivy schools were already in decline other than legacy kids who wouldn’t have stood a prayer otherwise. But I do think there are more smart kids today choosing NOT to go to an Ivy and in todays climate will continue to choose a diff path.

They are getting more applications and the stats of those admitted are going up. I'm sure there are other ways to measure "decline" but you should explain.

I can remember actual dumpster fires over the Vietnam War. This kind of crazy stuff is almost normal at Ivy League schools. At least since the sixties.

Eh. The number of applications and stats have been up everywhere,

The testimony by the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and MIT were a real dumpster fire. Smart kids have been moving away from ivy league schools for a while. Impossible to get in without a hook. And then there's a sense you have to walk on egg shells for four years.

Most kids will say no thank you to that environment.

It's not like you can't get a decent education at Michigan, Rice, Northwestern, Duke, Berkeley, CalTech, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Chicago, and so on and so forth. Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, West Point, Pomona, Annapolis, Swarthmore.

The Ivy League ain't all that. Except for the Cornell School of Hotel Administration. And I mean that genuinely. Very cool program.

They might lose some Jewish applicants but it won't deter most.

I think that it will.

Principled parents of long shot kids are going to reassess whether they want to send their $100.00 application fee "just to see what happens" to these schools that have created an environment that has allowed antisemitism to flourish without condemnation by the leaders or punishment/expulsion of the students, while all other forms of free speech have been supressed.

Many of those families will choose to spend their precious dollars elsewhere.

The worst was MIT a couple of weeks ago saying quietly that because many of the most virulent antisemite protesters were at the school on student visas, they would not be punished under the student conduct code, because the suspension that their behavior would usually result in would mean they would lose their student visas.

The Penn and Harvard presidents were abhorrent. If MIT has truly taken the approach of protecting these guest students over protecting their American Jewish kids, then they are much worse.

Young people say stupid stuff all the time while trying to figure things out. I think it’s cruel to end their dream and revoke their visa because they made an unfortunate comment. Odds are the American kids (who won the lottery at birth) have never and will never experience even 1% of the struggles students from a third or developing country have.

International students that come to the U.S. to study from a third world or developing countries are some of the wealthiest and most privileged in their countries. I know a guy who used to have his dad’s soldiers give him shoulder rubs and fetch him drinks.

And they didn’t just make comment. They actively blocked Jewish and other students from attending their classes.

The rest of the world is not beholden to the powerful pro-Israel lobby we have here in the US. Their media is not blatantly pro-Israel. They know what Israelis have been doing to the Palestinians for the past 75 years. Who do you think lived on the land that was used to create Israel? You really believe it was an empty wasteland? No, it had human beings living there. People who had been living there for millennia. I don’t care what someone’s religious book says about them being “chosen”. That is ridiculous. Your religion does not give you the right to steal another people’s land and then brutally occupy them for 75 years!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to be that person, but I went to MIT and have some amazing Jewish friends from that experience. I had zero time for bullsh&t at MIT. The average student was drowning. At no time did I witness or see any type of racism on campus.

That’s nice. But MIT may be in the biggest trouble, because they admitted that they did not follow through with discipline for students violating school rules because they might face visa issues. The biggest legal issue these schools face isn’t based on the 1st Amendment, but rather Civil Rights Act Title VI disparate treatment. If nothing else, the President should be fired for being stupid enough to put something like that in writing. I think the decision itself should be a firing offense, but who is dumb enough to admit it?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/mit-walks-back-threat-suspend-pro-palestinian-students-due-visa-issues

I don't see the issue here at all. Kids protested in a part of campus that MIT, internally, says is off limits. The punishment is decided by them. How is this a civil rights issue at all?

It’s a big nothingburger. There were no calls for genocide at MIT. They protested in the Infinite Corridor blocking students from classes which they shouldn’t have, but that is an internal matter. President Kornbluth is up there for failing to take an attitude of “Israel is 100% right and we will deport anyone who says otherwise”

As someone who attended MIT, they are very compassionate towards their students but do take a firm stance that doesn't risk hurting a student for life. I had several friends put on mandatory medical leave to mature before returning to campus.

When students and professors were put at risk of by Trump's travel bans of never being abke to go home or return, MIT found solutions for them.

https://news.mit.edu/2017/mit-responds-trumps-executive-order-travel-0130

There have always been fringe personalities that MIT (or any school) has to manage. One during my time was a woman that was very anti-man and would post graphic images of chopping off penises around campus. Ironically she later had a son (poor kid!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Harvard president will resign. She’s toast and now no one trusts the decision to hire her.

All the ridiculousness of Harvard admissions prior to this but NOW she will resign. The hypocrisy and cancel culture is horrifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Harvard president will resign. She’s toast and now no one trusts the decision to hire her.

All the ridiculousness of Harvard admissions prior to this but NOW she will resign. The hypocrisy and cancel culture is horrifying.

There are no huge Asian-American mega-donors and CEOs who are able to throw their weight around. Maybe in 20-30 years, though I doubt Asian-Americans will ever be as united since they are very diverse group of people racially ethnically etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe the Ivy schools were already in decline other than legacy kids who wouldn’t have stood a prayer otherwise. But I do think there are more smart kids today choosing NOT to go to an Ivy and in todays climate will continue to choose a diff path.

They are getting more applications and the stats of those admitted are going up. I'm sure there are other ways to measure "decline" but you should explain.

I can remember actual dumpster fires over the Vietnam War. This kind of crazy stuff is almost normal at Ivy League schools. At least since the sixties.

Eh. The number of applications and stats have been up everywhere,

The testimony by the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and MIT were a real dumpster fire. Smart kids have been moving away from ivy league schools for a while. Impossible to get in without a hook. And then there's a sense you have to walk on egg shells for four years.

Most kids will say no thank you to that environment.

It's not like you can't get a decent education at Michigan, Rice, Northwestern, Duke, Berkeley, CalTech, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Chicago, and so on and so forth. Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, West Point, Pomona, Annapolis, Swarthmore.

The Ivy League ain't all that. Except for the Cornell School of Hotel Administration. And I mean that genuinely. Very cool program.

They might lose some Jewish applicants but it won't deter most.

I think that it will.

Principled parents of long shot kids are going to reassess whether they want to send their $100.00 application fee "just to see what happens" to these schools that have created an environment that has allowed antisemitism to flourish without condemnation by the leaders or punishment/expulsion of the students, while all other forms of free speech have been supressed.

Many of those families will choose to spend their precious dollars elsewhere.

The worst was MIT a couple of weeks ago saying quietly that because many of the most virulent antisemite protesters were at the school on student visas, they would not be punished under the student conduct code, because the suspension that their behavior would usually result in would mean they would lose their student visas.

The Penn and Harvard presidents were abhorrent. If MIT has truly taken the approach of protecting these guest students over protecting their American Jewish kids, then they are much worse.

Young people say stupid stuff all the time while trying to figure things out. I think it’s cruel to end their dream and revoke their visa because they made an unfortunate comment. Odds are the American kids (who won the lottery at birth) have never and will never experience even 1% of the struggles students from a third or developing country have.

I suspect most of the international students in question at these schools are the filthy rich 0.1%. Very few if any are the poor underprivileged that you are thinking of.

Certainly some are but plenty are not.

Most international students have to go full pay. There are few scholarships. Either your government sends you or most of time, you are connected and filthy rich. I was an international student myself and plenty was the case.

And if you are not rich and somehow made your way in, your time is better spend trying to creating opportunity for yourself than protesting. If that gets you into trouble, you have your poor judgement to blame.

[Anonymous]

In fact I would argue the international students at these schools are more privileged than the average American that enrolls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe Jewish people have fumbled the bag so much. Any sympathy they had about the attack has been squandered by their reactions to it. Not just the state of Isreal but Jewish American celebrites and donors. No one feels sympathy anymore.

I feel enormous sympathy and judging by the polls, so do the majority of Americans. Loud weirdo progressives are still the minority thankfully.

I definitely have sympathy for the Israelis who suffered this atrocious terrorism. But I also have sympathy for the thousands of Palestinian civilians that are being killed and the Muslims in America that have been targeted and killed or paralyzed. My Jewish friends have been posting these ridiculously close minded things. They side entirely with Israel, despite being Americans, and do not care about the attacks on civilians or Americans. They think their kids feel unsafe from words and don’t have any empathy for others. It’s so disappointing.

Agree completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Will there be fewer applicants to these universities next year because of the failure of their presidents to provide clear responses against anti-semitism in congressional testimony this week? Each president embarrassed herself and her institution, although the Harvard president was particularly noteworthy.

Do you think there will be more applications to Brandeis?

[Anonymous]

I Penn’s president has resigned according to the Post just now.

[Anonymous]

The president of Penn has resigned. The Harvard president’s statements have been even more pathetic. How long before she is shown the door?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe Jewish people have fumbled the bag so much. Any sympathy they had about the attack has been squandered by their reactions to it. Not just the state of Isreal but Jewish American celebrites and donors. No one feels sympathy anymore.

I feel enormous sympathy and judging by the polls, so do the majority of Americans. Loud weirdo progressives are still the minority thankfully.

I definitely have sympathy for the Israelis who suffered this atrocious terrorism. But I also have sympathy for the thousands of Palestinian civilians that are being killed and the Muslims in America that have been targeted and killed or paralyzed. My Jewish friends have been posting these ridiculously close minded things. They side entirely with Israel, despite being Americans, and do not care about the attacks on civilians or Americans. They think their kids feel unsafe from words and don’t have any empathy for others. It’s so disappointing.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe the Ivy schools were already in decline other than legacy kids who wouldn’t have stood a prayer otherwise. But I do think there are more smart kids today choosing NOT to go to an Ivy and in todays climate will continue to choose a diff path.

They are getting more applications and the stats of those admitted are going up. I'm sure there are other ways to measure "decline" but you should explain.

I can remember actual dumpster fires over the Vietnam War. This kind of crazy stuff is almost normal at Ivy League schools. At least since the sixties.

Eh. The number of applications and stats have been up everywhere,

The testimony by the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and MIT were a real dumpster fire. Smart kids have been moving away from ivy league schools for a while. Impossible to get in without a hook. And then there's a sense you have to walk on egg shells for four years.

Most kids will say no thank you to that environment.

It's not like you can't get a decent education at Michigan, Rice, Northwestern, Duke, Berkeley, CalTech, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Chicago, and so on and so forth. Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, West Point, Pomona, Annapolis, Swarthmore.

The Ivy League ain't all that. Except for the Cornell School of Hotel Administration. And I mean that genuinely. Very cool program.

They might lose some Jewish applicants but it won't deter most.

I think that it will.

Principled parents of long shot kids are going to reassess whether they want to send their $100.00 application fee "just to see what happens" to these schools that have created an environment that has allowed antisemitism to flourish without condemnation by the leaders or punishment/expulsion of the students, while all other forms of free speech have been supressed.

Many of those families will choose to spend their precious dollars elsewhere.

The worst was MIT a couple of weeks ago saying quietly that because many of the most virulent antisemite protesters were at the school on student visas, they would not be punished under the student conduct code, because the suspension that their behavior would usually result in would mean they would lose their student visas.

The Penn and Harvard presidents were abhorrent. If MIT has truly taken the approach of protecting these guest students over protecting their American Jewish kids, then they are much worse.

Young people say stupid stuff all the time while trying to figure things out. I think it’s cruel to end their dream and revoke their visa because they made an unfortunate comment. Odds are the American kids (who won the lottery at birth) have never and will never experience even 1% of the struggles students from a third or developing country have.

International students that come to the U.S. to study from a third world or developing countries are some of the wealthiest and most privileged in their countries. I know a guy who used to have his dad’s soldiers give him shoulder rubs and fetch him drinks.

And they didn’t just make comment. They actively blocked Jewish and other students from attending their classes.

The rest of the world is not beholden to the powerful pro-Israel lobby we have here in the US. Their media is not blatantly pro-Israel. They know what Israelis have been doing to the Palestinians for the past 75 years. Who do you think lived on the land that was used to create Israel? You really believe it was an empty wasteland? No, it had human beings living there. People who had been living there for millennia. I don’t care what someone’s religious book says about them being “chosen”. That is ridiculous. Your religion does not give you the right to steal another people’s land and then brutally occupy them for 75 years!

So a bunch of young Jewish kids were priced out of Manhattan and decided to create Israel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe the Ivy schools were already in decline other than legacy kids who wouldn’t have stood a prayer otherwise. But I do think there are more smart kids today choosing NOT to go to an Ivy and in todays climate will continue to choose a diff path.

They are getting more applications and the stats of those admitted are going up. I'm sure there are other ways to measure "decline" but you should explain.

I can remember actual dumpster fires over the Vietnam War. This kind of crazy stuff is almost normal at Ivy League schools. At least since the sixties.

Eh. The number of applications and stats have been up everywhere,

The testimony by the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and MIT were a real dumpster fire. Smart kids have been moving away from ivy league schools for a while. Impossible to get in without a hook. And then there's a sense you have to walk on egg shells for four years.

Most kids will say no thank you to that environment.

It's not like you can't get a decent education at Michigan, Rice, Northwestern, Duke, Berkeley, CalTech, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Georgetown, UCLA, Chicago, and so on and so forth. Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, West Point, Pomona, Annapolis, Swarthmore.

The Ivy League ain't all that. Except for the Cornell School of Hotel Administration. And I mean that genuinely. Very cool program.

They might lose some Jewish applicants but it won't deter most.

I think that it will.

Principled parents of long shot kids are going to reassess whether they want to send their $100.00 application fee "just to see what happens" to these schools that have created an environment that has allowed antisemitism to flourish without condemnation by the leaders or punishment/expulsion of the students, while all other forms of free speech have been supressed.

Many of those families will choose to spend their precious dollars elsewhere.

The worst was MIT a couple of weeks ago saying quietly that because many of the most virulent antisemite protesters were at the school on student visas, they would not be punished under the student conduct code, because the suspension that their behavior would usually result in would mean they would lose their student visas.

The Penn and Harvard presidents were abhorrent. If MIT has truly taken the approach of protecting these guest students over protecting their American Jewish kids, then they are much worse.

Young people say stupid stuff all the time while trying to figure things out. I think it’s cruel to end their dream and revoke their visa because they made an unfortunate comment. Odds are the American kids (who won the lottery at birth) have never and will never experience even 1% of the struggles students from a third or developing country have.

International students that come to the U.S. to study from a third world or developing countries are some of the wealthiest and most privileged in their countries. I know a guy who used to have his dad’s soldiers give him shoulder rubs and fetch him drinks.

And they didn’t just make comment. They actively blocked Jewish and other students from attending their classes.

The rest of the world is not beholden to the powerful pro-Israel lobby we have here in the US. Their media is not blatantly pro-Israel. They know what Israelis have been doing to the Palestinians for the past 75 years. Who do you think lived on the land that was used to create Israel? You really believe it was an empty wasteland? No, it had human beings living there. People who had been living there for millennia. I don’t care what someone’s religious book says about them being “chosen”. That is ridiculous. Your religion does not give you the right to steal another people’s land and then brutally occupy them for 75 years!

So a bunch of young Jewish kids were priced out of Manhattan and decided to create Israel?

That’s what they think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to be that person, but I went to MIT and have some amazing Jewish friends from that experience. I had zero time for bullsh&t at MIT. The average student was drowning. At no time did I witness or see any type of racism on campus.

That’s nice. But MIT may be in the biggest trouble, because they admitted that they did not follow through with discipline for students violating school rules because they might face visa issues. The biggest legal issue these schools face isn’t based on the 1st Amendment, but rather Civil Rights Act Title VI disparate treatment. If nothing else, the President should be fired for being stupid enough to put something like that in writing. I think the decision itself should be a firing offense, but who is dumb enough to admit it?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/mit-walks-back-threat-suspend-pro-palestinian-students-due-visa-issues

I don't see the issue here at all. Kids protested in a part of campus that MIT, internally, says is off limits. The punishment is decided by them. How is this a civil rights issue at all?

It’s a big nothingburger. There were no calls for genocide at MIT. They protested in the Infinite Corridor blocking students from classes which they shouldn’t have, but that is an internal matter. President Kornbluth is up there for failing to take an attitude of “Israel is 100% right and we will deport anyone who says otherwise”

No, she is being criticized for taking the exact opposite tack, which was to say that they wouldn’t enforce MIT’s rules against the protestors because it might affect the visa status of some of the students. Rightly so — unequal enforcement of their rules is a Title VI violation.