APS DHMS walk zone nuclear option

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.

Then hopefully their parents wouldn’t allow them to opt in to virtual (I personally don’t believe it will be forced upon anyone). But if APS doesn’t have enough physical seats and is asked to do more with less, I’m ok with the potential negative consequence of night and virtual school.

But they have 300 physical seats for high school tied up for HBW middle schoolers.

Where would you put the 300 HB middle schoolers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.

Then hopefully their parents wouldn’t allow them to opt in to virtual (I personally don’t believe it will be forced upon anyone). But if APS doesn’t have enough physical seats and is asked to do more with less, I’m ok with the potential negative consequence of night and virtual school.

But they have 300 physical seats for high school tied up for HBW middle schoolers.

Where would you put the 300 HB middle schoolers?

Their Neighborhood schools. Looks like WMS has space as well. Encourage transfers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.

Then hopefully their parents wouldn’t allow them to opt in to virtual (I personally don’t believe it will be forced upon anyone). But if APS doesn’t have enough physical seats and is asked to do more with less, I’m ok with the potential negative consequence of night and virtual school.

I was responding to the poster saying virtual was fine because some kids will disengage even if in person. I think kids who can be coaxed to participate (which I'd argue is all kids) have a better chance at staying involved in person. But I am curious what negative consequences of night and virtual school you are comfortable with for 14-18 year olds.

Yes, I’m that poster. In person is best for most kids but I’ve come to realize APS probably isn’t heading in that direction. This is becoming a large urban school district where space is at a premium. I’m fine if some families choose night or virtual school and then the kids aren’t as engaged as they would be in person. If it’s available, that’s their choice. And who am I to say what the best outcome is or what factors they are weighing in this choice. People are different and I’m ok with that. Test scores aren’t everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.

Then hopefully their parents wouldn’t allow them to opt in to virtual (I personally don’t believe it will be forced upon anyone). But if APS doesn’t have enough physical seats and is asked to do more with less, I’m ok with the potential negative consequence of night and virtual school.

I was responding to the poster saying virtual was fine because some kids will disengage even if in person. I think kids who can be coaxed to participate (which I'd argue is all kids) have a better chance at staying involved in person. But I am curious what negative consequences of night and virtual school you are comfortable with for 14-18 year olds.

Yes, I’m that poster. In person is best for most kids but I’ve come to realize APS probably isn’t heading in that direction. This is becoming a large urban school district where space is at a premium. I’m fine if some families choose night or virtual school and then the kids aren’t as engaged as they would be in person. If it’s available, that’s their choice. And who am I to say what the best outcome is or what factors they are weighing in this choice. People are different and I’m ok with that. Test scores aren’t everything.

DP. I've subscribed to this mantra, too. But I'm starting to change my mind. They may not be "everything" but they are a primary importance. Wherever this is the reigning attitude - that socioemotional and basic needs and feeling safe and everybody has to perform the same in order for there to be equity approach has eroded actual education and knowledge acquisition overall. We don't have to dig deep down into each individual child's psyche to meet our students needs. Students need structure, discipline, support, and high expectations from their adult authority figures. They thrive under firm quality standards and expectations. There are always exceptions; but we're losing more the way we're going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.

Then hopefully their parents wouldn’t allow them to opt in to virtual (I personally don’t believe it will be forced upon anyone). But if APS doesn’t have enough physical seats and is asked to do more with less, I’m ok with the potential negative consequence of night and virtual school.

I was responding to the poster saying virtual was fine because some kids will disengage even if in person. I think kids who can be coaxed to participate (which I'd argue is all kids) have a better chance at staying involved in person. But I am curious what negative consequences of night and virtual school you are comfortable with for 14-18 year olds.

Yes, I’m that poster. In person is best for most kids but I’ve come to realize APS probably isn’t heading in that direction. This is becoming a large urban school district where space is at a premium. I’m fine if some families choose night or virtual school and then the kids aren’t as engaged as they would be in person. If it’s available, that’s their choice. And who am I to say what the best outcome is or what factors they are weighing in this choice. People are different and I’m ok with that. Test scores aren’t everything.

DP. I've subscribed to this mantra, too. But I'm starting to change my mind. They may not be "everything" but they are a primary importance. Wherever this is the reigning attitude - that socioemotional and basic needs and feeling safe and everybody has to perform the same in order for there to be equity approach has eroded actual education and knowledge acquisition overall. We don't have to dig deep down into each individual child's psyche to meet our students needs. Students need structure, discipline, support, and high expectations from their adult authority figures. They thrive under firm quality standards and expectations. There are always exceptions; but we're losing more the way we're going.

These are not mutually exclusive.

And there isn’t the expectation that “everyone has to perform the same”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.

Then hopefully their parents wouldn’t allow them to opt in to virtual (I personally don’t believe it will be forced upon anyone). But if APS doesn’t have enough physical seats and is asked to do more with less, I’m ok with the potential negative consequence of night and virtual school.

I was responding to the poster saying virtual was fine because some kids will disengage even if in person. I think kids who can be coaxed to participate (which I'd argue is all kids) have a better chance at staying involved in person. But I am curious what negative consequences of night and virtual school you are comfortable with for 14-18 year olds.

Yes, I’m that poster. In person is best for most kids but I’ve come to realize APS probably isn’t heading in that direction. This is becoming a large urban school district where space is at a premium. I’m fine if some families choose night or virtual school and then the kids aren’t as engaged as they would be in person. If it’s available, that’s their choice. And who am I to say what the best outcome is or what factors they are weighing in this choice. People are different and I’m ok with that. Test scores aren’t everything.

DP. I've subscribed to this mantra, too. But I'm starting to change my mind. They may not be "everything" but they are a primary importance. Wherever this is the reigning attitude - that socioemotional and basic needs and feeling safe and everybody has to perform the same in order for there to be equity approach has eroded actual education and knowledge acquisition overall. We don't have to dig deep down into each individual child's psyche to meet our students needs. Students need structure, discipline, support, and high expectations from their adult authority figures. They thrive under firm quality standards and expectations. There are always exceptions; but we're losing more the way we're going.

These are not mutually exclusive.

And there isn’t the expectation that “everyone has to perform the same”.

Didn't say they were mutually exclusive. I'm saying there's too much focus on the former and no longer enough on the latter. And when the effect is less work, repeated attempts on quizzes, lack of substantive reading and writing, and making sure politically-correct topics are infused into every class rather than just focusing on the main subject matter; and when "equity" is implemented by bringing down the higher to meet the lower rather than the other way around, it's a problem. We should be focused on all the socio-emotional stuff without lowering our academic standards, rigor, or quality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.

Then hopefully their parents wouldn’t allow them to opt in to virtual (I personally don’t believe it will be forced upon anyone). But if APS doesn’t have enough physical seats and is asked to do more with less, I’m ok with the potential negative consequence of night and virtual school.

I was responding to the poster saying virtual was fine because some kids will disengage even if in person. I think kids who can be coaxed to participate (which I'd argue is all kids) have a better chance at staying involved in person. But I am curious what negative consequences of night and virtual school you are comfortable with for 14-18 year olds.

Yes, I’m that poster. In person is best for most kids but I’ve come to realize APS probably isn’t heading in that direction. This is becoming a large urban school district where space is at a premium. I’m fine if some families choose night or virtual school and then the kids aren’t as engaged as they would be in person. If it’s available, that’s their choice. And who am I to say what the best outcome is or what factors they are weighing in this choice. People are different and I’m ok with that. Test scores aren’t everything.

DP. I've subscribed to this mantra, too. But I'm starting to change my mind. They may not be "everything" but they are a primary importance. Wherever this is the reigning attitude - that socioemotional and basic needs and feeling safe and everybody has to perform the same in order for there to be equity approach has eroded actual education and knowledge acquisition overall. We don't have to dig deep down into each individual child's psyche to meet our students needs. Students need structure, discipline, support, and high expectations from their adult authority figures. They thrive under firm quality standards and expectations. There are always exceptions; but we're losing more the way we're going.

These are not mutually exclusive.

And there isn’t the expectation that “everyone has to perform the same”.

Didn't say they were mutually exclusive. I'm saying there's too much focus on the former and no longer enough on the latter. And when the effect is less work, repeated attempts on quizzes, lack of substantive reading and writing, and making sure politically-correct topics are infused into every class rather than just focusing on the main subject matter; and when "equity" is implemented by bringing down the higher to meet the lower rather than the other way around, it's a problem. We should be focused on all the socio-emotional stuff without lowering our academic standards, rigor, or quality.

Are you talking about APS? Which schools?

The only thing my kids have experienced are test corrections. Which are a good thing because they encourage kids to learn the material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.

Then hopefully their parents wouldn’t allow them to opt in to virtual (I personally don’t believe it will be forced upon anyone). But if APS doesn’t have enough physical seats and is asked to do more with less, I’m ok with the potential negative consequence of night and virtual school.

I was responding to the poster saying virtual was fine because some kids will disengage even if in person. I think kids who can be coaxed to participate (which I'd argue is all kids) have a better chance at staying involved in person. But I am curious what negative consequences of night and virtual school you are comfortable with for 14-18 year olds.

Yes, I’m that poster. In person is best for most kids but I’ve come to realize APS probably isn’t heading in that direction. This is becoming a large urban school district where space is at a premium. I’m fine if some families choose night or virtual school and then the kids aren’t as engaged as they would be in person. If it’s available, that’s their choice. And who am I to say what the best outcome is or what factors they are weighing in this choice. People are different and I’m ok with that. Test scores aren’t everything.

DP. I've subscribed to this mantra, too. But I'm starting to change my mind. They may not be "everything" but they are a primary importance. Wherever this is the reigning attitude - that socioemotional and basic needs and feeling safe and everybody has to perform the same in order for there to be equity approach has eroded actual education and knowledge acquisition overall. We don't have to dig deep down into each individual child's psyche to meet our students needs. Students need structure, discipline, support, and high expectations from their adult authority figures. They thrive under firm quality standards and expectations. There are always exceptions; but we're losing more the way we're going.

I hear you. I’m not 100 percent comfortable with night and virtual school, but I can get there as long as it’s not forced upon anyone. If we are legitimately out of
space and some families throw their hand up for other options, I can live with it. Maybe I’m growing too cynical.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.

Then hopefully their parents wouldn’t allow them to opt in to virtual (I personally don’t believe it will be forced upon anyone). But if APS doesn’t have enough physical seats and is asked to do more with less, I’m ok with the potential negative consequence of night and virtual school.

I was responding to the poster saying virtual was fine because some kids will disengage even if in person. I think kids who can be coaxed to participate (which I'd argue is all kids) have a better chance at staying involved in person. But I am curious what negative consequences of night and virtual school you are comfortable with for 14-18 year olds.

Yes, I’m that poster. In person is best for most kids but I’ve come to realize APS probably isn’t heading in that direction. This is becoming a large urban school district where space is at a premium. I’m fine if some families choose night or virtual school and then the kids aren’t as engaged as they would be in person. If it’s available, that’s their choice. And who am I to say what the best outcome is or what factors they are weighing in this choice. People are different and I’m ok with that. Test scores aren’t everything.

DP. I've subscribed to this mantra, too. But I'm starting to change my mind. They may not be "everything" but they are a primary importance. Wherever this is the reigning attitude - that socioemotional and basic needs and feeling safe and everybody has to perform the same in order for there to be equity approach has eroded actual education and knowledge acquisition overall. We don't have to dig deep down into each individual child's psyche to meet our students needs. Students need structure, discipline, support, and high expectations from their adult authority figures. They thrive under firm quality standards and expectations. There are always exceptions; but we're losing more the way we're going.

If you don’t get that children’s social emotional and basic needs and feeling safe need to be met before kids can learn, I don’t know how to explain it to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

They added a lot of seats at W-L. You oppose filling them?

I opposed the supersizing of WL. It will degrade the experience to keep increasing the student population in such a small footprint site.

That said, we needed a 4th high school, not 600 seats, so once we burn through the 600 seat capacity, and they struggle to lure students to ArlVoTech, we will end up with remote learning (proven to “work” already) and night shift classes.

Ok but you said documented plans for night shifts and remote school not just conjecture

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

APS needs more option programs for kids in middle school, not less. A school system needs to be driven by more than capacity planning. You know, like education.

No.

You really think all kids are thriving in these huge middle school jungles? We need more choices for these kids, it’s idiotic to want to take away the one good middle school program that exists.

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Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

+1

Seems like there is a poster who doesn't have kids in APS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

That's very different from admissions to choice schools.

What specifically do you think is illegal? APS used to allow neighborhood kids a preference at certain option schools. It hasn’t always been a straight lottery. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you think.

Are you familiar with how HB’s lottery system works now? It is allotted by neighborhood school.

Yes I’m aware. And when I look at the demographics, I ask myself why it looks so skewed compared to the demographics of the student population as a whole. I would think most people would think that deserves a little thought. What do you make of it?

[Anonymous]

If you are a Taylor parent opposed to moving Hamm students to Williamsburg, please check out the new Thought Exchange on the APS Engage site. We are behind in getting our position out there - Ashlawn appears much more organized as does Barrett to a lesser extent.