How does your redshirted kid feel now that she/he is older?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bored in school as they aged up.

If kids are bored in school they probably have a learning disability or are on a low quality school that can't provide differentiated learning. Either way, you need to change school. It's not the grade they're in.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Of course most redshirters have a higher socioeconomic status. That's just common sense - they can afford another year of preschool or daycare (or another year of a SAHM.) As the parent of two non-redshirted kids, it doesn't bother me. I don't find the redshirted kids to be any more or less impressive. They don't stand out either way.

What grades are your children in? The boys definitely stand out when puberty hits them
before the non redshirted children.

Given the range of times when kids go through puberty, I don't believe you can tell the difference between a 10th grader who turned 16 in July and one who turned 16 in October.

Honey, that’s not the only scenario that is happening.
There are 16 year old students with my and other 14 year old students in the same grade. These kids at some point were also 14 with the 12 years old. I and others can easily tell the difference.
A year and more is big when puberty hits. That is not a secret.

Please explain how there were 16 and 14 year olds in the same class. Let's take 9th grade.

Your child was born seconds before the cut off (here, September 30) and is 14 for the 1st month (only!) of 9th grade. A red shirted kid has, say, a May birthday and turned 15 several months before starting 9th grade. So at the beginning of the year, you have 14 and 15 year olds. For most of the year, you have 15 year olds. At the end of the year, you have 15 and 16 year olds.

There are 2 red-shirted boys born in March and 1 born in April of 2007. There are non-redshirted students who were born around those months and later of 2008.
Thus, the 3 redshirters are 16 while some of the non-redshirters are still 14 who will turn 15 later that spring or summer.
Thus,

Out of how many total students? How concerning are these 3 students? Is this a high school? My high school had hundreds of students per grade this would be totally insignificant.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I really wish all the anti-red shirting posters would drop the pretense of concern for the welfare of others’ redshirted children and just be honest: you are concerned about your own non-redshirted kids having to compete in school and later in life with redshirted kids, whom you perceive to have an advantage.

Your concern is reasonable. They probably do have an advantage. It’s so tiresome and pathetic to see all these posts about kids being bored, how awful it will be to drive before your peers, etc.

Just own your concern that the redshirting trend is leading to inequality.

My spouse and alumni interview for York HS, Whitman HS and Blair magnet kids for our alma mater.

There are some very impressive kids and CVs at age 17/18. We actually see more on the younger side if a summer birthday than on the older side. We’ve never seen redshirting with non-whites. We have seen certain cultures who must have started young in private or tested to start K slightly under age 5.

Redshirting just seems like something worried parents do and hope it makes a difference. No one will really know either way.

The Asian rate of redshirting isn’t all that different from the white rate according to the limited studies out there. Is your husband biased against Asians?

Call up Churchill, Blair or Tj and ask yourself. It’s negligible, often none.

Asians would be embarassed to redshirt their kids.

They’re the families trying to get their sept/oct/Nov kid to test in to K as late 4 yo.

Redshirting is a USA white boy thing.

Lol. You are clearly out of touch

Lol indeed. I have the data and I’ve seen the many years of students.

If anything Asians think K-8 academics are a joke in this country and would never consider holding their kids back “to be bigger and more organized.”

They would laugh so hard at that notion. Unfathomable.

Here, I’ll do your work for you. This is from a Brookings Institute study:

“Redshirting rates also differ by race and ethnicity. White families were about twice as likely to redshirt their kindergarteners than Black and Hispanic families. Nearly eight percent (7.8 percent) of white students and 6.4 percent of Asian students were redshirted, compared to 3.5 percent of Black students and 4.0 percent of Hispanic students. In general, the children currently most likely to be redshirted are not lagging academically. In fact, the children who are redshirted have slightly higher reading and math scores, prior to starting school, than their peers who entered on time.“

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2022/09/13/who-redshirts/amp/

Do you truly think that the anti-redshirt posters who can’t handle elementary-level math can understand statistical analysis from Brookings?

I think you are going to break the brain of the poor deluded PP you are responding to.

You misspoke. The red-shirters cannot do math; hence, the need to be held back.

The overwhelming evidence of many DCUM threads, including this one, shows that anti-redshirters can’t understand basic math. There aren’t examples of pro-redshirters not understanding math in these threads, but anti-redshirters demonstrate their lack of capacity every time. It is so common: Anti-redshirters show over and over again that they can’t do basic math. Just read back in this thread for examples.

What always happens (and it happened in this thread too) is that some patient soul works through the very basic math for them, but then they still don’t understand it.

I don’t think most DCUM anti-redshirt posters have a snowball’s chance of comprehending Brooking institution analysis based on their posts in these threads. If you cannot understand how to count months and years, Brookings is going to beyond you.

[Anonymous]

We "redshirted" my daughter who has a birthday the last week in May during Covid. We simply did not want her doing virtual kindergarten. We had the resources to send her to a year of private in person pre-k with children who had birthdays from April - October. It was the best decision we could have made for our family.

At times, I know she may feel "old" for her grade but I think because her K year was the height of covid, there are a ton of kids in that class in her situation. Moreover, much of what matters in life is confidence. Without it, people old and young struggle in every aspect of life. If a year in any direction provides a child with more self-confidence, who are any of us to judge?

[Anonymous]

Whenever I read these threads I feel like I have found the people who view education as a blood sport zero-sum game and fight tooth and nail against any equity-based changes at school board meetings. If you are this worked up about giving a kid who might need a little more time a spot in your kid’s classroom, if you view a child who is maybe three months older than your child as some sort of existential educational threat, what must you do if the school board proposes boundary changes?

I cannot imagine seeing education as rigidly and competitively as the anti-redshirters do. It is incomprehensible to me. My kids (now teens) were never negatively impacted by redshirted kids in the classroom. I can’t imagine being as worked up about it as some of you clearly are. It is a non-issue for people with any common sense.

[Anonymous]

My August bday kid repeated K b/c her anxiety was causing learning issues and every once in awhile she comments on it because she is one of the older kids in her class.

But it is largely a non-issue. Over time there's almost no memory from the kids who are a grade older that she was in K with them. With your daughter starting a different school I don't think it will be an issue at all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In my DD's friend group (9th grade) there are 4 girls who are redshirted. No one cares.

My observation as a parent of a teenager with ADHD - redshirting your kid will help. After about 3rd grade, my son was 6 - 18 months behind in the executive functioning elements. Middle school through the beginning of 11th grade was really hard as all the conversations were about completing homework and things that were not done in class. Now at the end of 11th grade I have a kid who has survived a lot of challenges - and I wish it did not need to be that hard for him. He is really smart - but our school is not about being smart - it is about delivering assignments the way the teachers want them.

Kids care and talk. Don't kid yourself.

DP - not at all. I have 4 kids - Redshirting is so common these days. Kids don’t care. If a student repeats 4th grade or something, it will be noticed

It's common in families like yours where you have too many kids to meet their individual needs so you take the easy road vs. the best for the child road. Maybe you young kids don't care but it gets pretty obvious when a senior is 19 all of senior year. Or, a 16 year old freshman is driving.

Huh. My redshirted summer boy will be 18 all senior year just like his non redshirted sister with a September birthday. Same thing.

How is this possible???? My non-redshirted Sep birthday kid turned 18 the first week of college.

Might be different cutoffs (September 1 versus September 30)?

Then pp should state her kid went to schools with different cutoffs, otherwise it's not possible.

Sep 1 cutoff is very common. All around the country. Your freshman will know this.

If the cutoff is Sep 1 and her dd has a Sept bday, it wouldn't be common to hold a child back if they were the oldest in the class. So, her comment that her DD "wasn't redshirted" made it sound like she was in DCPS because Sept bdays would more often be held back. Again, if the cutoff is Sep 1 her daughter would be 18 all year. A summer bday, as suggested by her other kid, would be 19.

I'm not arguing either for/against. I'm asking someone to make a claim to make it make sense.

Do you really not understand how it is possible for a redshirted kid to be 18 all of senior year as well as a non-redshirted kid?

+1 why are the anti-redshirters So.Bad.at.math?!

We live in Maryland. The cutoff is September 1st.

My redshirted son is a high school junior. August 30th, 2005. He will turn 18 right around the first day of his senior year. He will turn 19 two months AFTER he graduates. My daughter is a NON-redshirted 8th grader. September 29th, 2008. She will turn 18 about a month into her senior year of high school and thus be 18 for the vast majority of it- just like her brother.

Summer redshirts are not 19 at any point in high school. Unless they're early-mid June birthdays. But I don't think that's very common. My experience is that it's mostly August bdays that are redshirted, sometimes July, and those kids turn 19 AFTER they graduate. A summer birthday who is 19 as a senior would have been "double redshirted."

Idk but it is a constant theme of these threads. People who are opposed to redshirting cannot do even basic math. I’ve wondered before if that is why they are so bizarre: they lack some common capabilities.

Np.

I don’t think the issue is kids born one month before cutoff and holding back summer boy, the generally are more immature and this is better for everyone in the class frankly. Better behavior and focus.

The issue - which NY make strict collars on the 12-15 months allowed per grade, including starting K as a 4 yo technically - is when the redshirting creeps up and up. To June and may bdays. And March and April bdays. And then there is an 18 month span of kids and not 12 within a classroom. Or worse, a gap of no kids from April- august and thus 40% of the class is starting at the age they were supposed to turn during the year at the first day of class. Then the whole social dynamic come middle school with its range of puberty fun and growth spurts is further magnified. High school it might be less so.

And last I read 50% of teens in the dmv don’t get their license even by age 17. It’s crazy driving around here and Uber works fine.

That’s true NY put the kibash on redshirting by disallowing it. That’s what happens when parents get out of hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course most redshirters have a higher socioeconomic status. That's just common sense - they can afford another year of preschool or daycare (or another year of a SAHM.) As the parent of two non-redshirted kids, it doesn't bother me. I don't find the redshirted kids to be any more or less impressive. They don't stand out either way.

They are awesome gods at our school.

Geometry done in 8th grade.
Drivers license in spring of 9th grade.
Bulking up in muscles post growth spurts in upper middle school
Excellent executive functioning skills
Internships all three summers of high school.
Varsity teams by grad 9 or 10 latest
g&T programs since grade 4.

It’s amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:In my DD's friend group (9th grade) there are 4 girls who are redshirted. No one cares.

My observation as a parent of a teenager with ADHD - redshirting your kid will help. After about 3rd grade, my son was 6 - 18 months behind in the executive functioning elements. Middle school through the beginning of 11th grade was really hard as all the conversations were about completing homework and things that were not done in class. Now at the end of 11th grade I have a kid who has survived a lot of challenges - and I wish it did not need to be that hard for him. He is really smart - but our school is not about being smart - it is about delivering assignments the way the teachers want them.

Kids care and talk. Don't kid yourself.

They really don’t care.

Not universally true. We redshirted my late August child and while in kindergarten it never came up, it did in first grade. This other child told my child that she was supposed to be in 2nd grade and not in 1st. And asked her if she was left back. Not the biggest deal, but just sharing to say that it can come up. We shared our reasons with our child and they are fine with it and it does not seem to be a thing. You just might want to prep your child with a reason in case it does come up. We had never discussed it with our child, given that they were so close to the cut off and so young.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Of course most redshirters have a higher socioeconomic status. That's just common sense - they can afford another year of preschool or daycare (or another year of a SAHM.) As the parent of two non-redshirted kids, it doesn't bother me. I don't find the redshirted kids to be any more or less impressive. They don't stand out either way.

What grades are your children in? The boys definitely stand out when puberty hits them
before the non redshirted children.

Given the range of times when kids go through puberty, I don't believe you can tell the difference between a 10th grader who turned 16 in July and one who turned 16 in October.

Honey, that’s not the only scenario that is happening.
There are 16 year old students with my and other 14 year old students in the same grade. These kids at some point were also 14 with the 12 years old. I and others can easily tell the difference.
A year and more is big when puberty hits. That is not a secret.

It's always the 2 year age gap. Where is this 2 year gap in the same grade so common? It's probably more like 14 months.

It’s 16-18 mos with boys and not a normal distribution curve since 4-6 mos of summer and spring bdays were deferred by so many scared and insecure parents.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I really wish all the anti-red shirting posters would drop the pretense of concern for the welfare of others’ redshirted children and just be honest: you are concerned about your own non-redshirted kids having to compete in school and later in life with redshirted kids, whom you perceive to have an advantage.

Your concern is reasonable. They probably do have an advantage. It’s so tiresome and pathetic to see all these posts about kids being bored, how awful it will be to drive before your peers, etc.

Just own your concern that the redshirting trend is leading to inequality.

My spouse and alumni interview for York HS, Whitman HS and Blair magnet kids for our alma mater.

There are some very impressive kids and CVs at age 17/18. We actually see more on the younger side if a summer birthday than on the older side. We’ve never seen redshirting with non-whites. We have seen certain cultures who must have started young in private or tested to start K slightly under age 5.

Redshirting just seems like something worried parents do and hope it makes a difference. No one will really know either way.

The Asian rate of redshirting isn’t all that different from the white rate according to the limited studies out there. Is your husband biased against Asians?

Call up Churchill, Blair or Tj and ask yourself. It’s negligible, often none.

Asians would be embarassed to redshirt their kids.

They’re the families trying to get their sept/oct/Nov kid to test in to K as late 4 yo.

Redshirting is a USA white boy thing.

Lol. You are clearly out of touch

Lol indeed. I have the data and I’ve seen the many years of students.

If anything Asians think K-8 academics are a joke in this country and would never consider holding their kids back “to be bigger and more organized.”

They would laugh so hard at that notion. Unfathomable.

Here, I’ll do your work for you. This is from a Brookings Institute study:

“Redshirting rates also differ by race and ethnicity. White families were about twice as likely to redshirt their kindergarteners than Black and Hispanic families. Nearly eight percent (7.8 percent) of white students and 6.4 percent of Asian students were redshirted, compared to 3.5 percent of Black students and 4.0 percent of Hispanic students. In general, the children currently most likely to be redshirted are not lagging academically. In fact, the children who are redshirted have slightly higher reading and math scores, prior to starting school, than their peers who entered on time.“

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2022/09/13/who-redshirts/amp/

Do you truly think that the anti-redshirt posters who can’t handle elementary-level math can understand statistical analysis from Brookings?

I think you are going to break the brain of the poor deluded PP you are responding to.

You misspoke. The red-shirters cannot do math; hence, the need to be held back.

The overwhelming evidence of many DCUM threads, including this one, shows that anti-redshirters can’t understand basic math. There aren’t examples of pro-redshirters not understanding math in these threads, but anti-redshirters demonstrate their lack of capacity every time. It is so common: Anti-redshirters show over and over again that they can’t do basic math. Just read back in this thread for examples.

What always happens (and it happened in this thread too) is that some patient soul works through the very basic math for them, but then they still don’t understand it.

I don’t think most DCUM anti-redshirt posters have a snowball’s chance of comprehending Brooking institution analysis based on their posts in these threads. If you cannot understand how to count months and years, Brookings is going to beyond you.

Our talk athletic August 2010 kid started on time and has k redshirted boys in her class with March and April 2009 DOB.

Their parents are pretty open that they believe in red shirting in order to be the biggest, strongest and most confident kid.

Don’t see any differences. They are also a crazy soccer family grooming most of their kids too. He plays on the ecnl Arlington soccer 2009 team with kids in a grade above him. So redshirting won’t matter for that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Of course most redshirters have a higher socioeconomic status. That's just common sense - they can afford another year of preschool or daycare (or another year of a SAHM.) As the parent of two non-redshirted kids, it doesn't bother me. I don't find the redshirted kids to be any more or less impressive. They don't stand out either way.

What grades are your children in? The boys definitely stand out when puberty hits them
before the non redshirted children.

Given the range of times when kids go through puberty, I don't believe you can tell the difference between a 10th grader who turned 16 in July and one who turned 16 in October.

Honey, that’s not the only scenario that is happening.
There are 16 year old students with my and other 14 year old students in the same grade. These kids at some point were also 14 with the 12 years old. I and others can easily tell the difference.
A year and more is big when puberty hits. That is not a secret.

Please explain how there were 16 and 14 year olds in the same class. Let's take 9th grade.

Your child was born seconds before the cut off (here, September 30) and is 14 for the 1st month (only!) of 9th grade. A red shirted kid has, say, a May birthday and turned 15 several months before starting 9th grade. So at the beginning of the year, you have 14 and 15 year olds. For most of the year, you have 15 year olds. At the end of the year, you have 15 and 16 year olds.

Love how you cherry-picked a scenario that is the absolute latest date to the cut-off which is not the vast majority of the cases. Dp

There only needs to be one such case in a grade to make it true for the grade. A single grade can have hundreds of kids it's not unreasonable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In my DD's friend group (9th grade) there are 4 girls who are redshirted. No one cares.

My observation as a parent of a teenager with ADHD - redshirting your kid will help. After about 3rd grade, my son was 6 - 18 months behind in the executive functioning elements. Middle school through the beginning of 11th grade was really hard as all the conversations were about completing homework and things that were not done in class. Now at the end of 11th grade I have a kid who has survived a lot of challenges - and I wish it did not need to be that hard for him. He is really smart - but our school is not about being smart - it is about delivering assignments the way the teachers want them.

Kids care and talk. Don't kid yourself.

DP - not at all. I have 4 kids - Redshirting is so common these days. Kids don’t care. If a student repeats 4th grade or something, it will be noticed

It's common in families like yours where you have too many kids to meet their individual needs so you take the easy road vs. the best for the child road. Maybe you young kids don't care but it gets pretty obvious when a senior is 19 all of senior year. Or, a 16 year old freshman is driving.

Huh. My redshirted summer boy will be 18 all senior year just like his non redshirted sister with a September birthday. Same thing.

How is this possible???? My non-redshirted Sep birthday kid turned 18 the first week of college.

Might be different cutoffs (September 1 versus September 30)?

Then pp should state her kid went to schools with different cutoffs, otherwise it's not possible.

Sep 1 cutoff is very common. All around the country. Your freshman will know this.

If the cutoff is Sep 1 and her dd has a Sept bday, it wouldn't be common to hold a child back if they were the oldest in the class. So, her comment that her DD "wasn't redshirted" made it sound like she was in DCPS because Sept bdays would more often be held back. Again, if the cutoff is Sep 1 her daughter would be 18 all year. A summer bday, as suggested by her other kid, would be 19.

I'm not arguing either for/against. I'm asking someone to make a claim to make it make sense.

Do you really not understand how it is possible for a redshirted kid to be 18 all of senior year as well as a non-redshirted kid?

+1 why are the anti-redshirters So.Bad.at.math?!

We live in Maryland. The cutoff is September 1st.

My redshirted son is a high school junior. August 30th, 2005. He will turn 18 right around the first day of his senior year. He will turn 19 two months AFTER he graduates. My daughter is a NON-redshirted 8th grader. September 29th, 2008. She will turn 18 about a month into her senior year of high school and thus be 18 for the vast majority of it- just like her brother.

Summer redshirts are not 19 at any point in high school. Unless they're early-mid June birthdays. But I don't think that's very common. My experience is that it's mostly August bdays that are redshirted, sometimes July, and those kids turn 19 AFTER they graduate. A summer birthday who is 19 as a senior would have been "double redshirted."

Idk but it is a constant theme of these threads. People who are opposed to redshirting cannot do even basic math. I’ve wondered before if that is why they are so bizarre: they lack some common capabilities.

Np.

I don’t think the issue is kids born one month before cutoff and holding back summer boy, the generally are more immature and this is better for everyone in the class frankly. Better behavior and focus.

The issue - which NY make strict collars on the 12-15 months allowed per grade, including starting K as a 4 yo technically - is when the redshirting creeps up and up. To June and may bdays. And March and April bdays. And then there is an 18 month span of kids and not 12 within a classroom. Or worse, a gap of no kids from April- august and thus 40% of the class is starting at the age they were supposed to turn during the year at the first day of class. Then the whole social dynamic come middle school with its range of puberty fun and growth spurts is further magnified. High school it might be less so.

And last I read 50% of teens in the dmv don’t get their license even by age 17. It’s crazy driving around here and Uber works fine.

That’s true NY put the kibash on redshirting by disallowing it. That’s what happens when parents get out of hand.

Doesn’t apply to privates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I read these threads I feel like I have found the people who view education as a blood sport zero-sum game and fight tooth and nail against any equity-based changes at school board meetings. If you are this worked up about giving a kid who might need a little more time a spot in your kid’s classroom, if you view a child who is maybe three months older than your child as some sort of existential educational threat, what must you do if the school board proposes boundary changes?

I generally think of equity concerns as arguing against red shirting. It’s higher SES families who are more likely to red shirt because they can afford it. This means that students who already have SES advantages, also have advantages in age, size, and maturity. My anecdotal observation of redshirting from kids’ classes is that it’s usually not kids with learning challenges who are red shirted, but kids whose parents want them to have an advantage either academically or for sports.
I cannot imagine seeing education as rigidly and competitively as the anti-redshirters do. It is incomprehensible to me. My kids (now teens) were never negatively impacted by redshirted kids in the classroom. I can’t imagine being as worked up about it as some of you clearly are. It is a non-issue for people with any common sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I read these threads I feel like I have found the people who view education as a blood sport zero-sum game and fight tooth and nail against any equity-based changes at school board meetings.

Exactly. Holding back your March-June bday boy so they are the oldest decile in a grade by 4-18 months, when he is merely 5 yo, is the epitome of hyper competitive zero-sum game parenting thinking.