Unfriendly Classmate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The neighbors mom should tell her kid to, at a minimum, wave or make eye contact and smile when yours says hi. That’s about as much as my shy kid can manage, and it’s taken us 10 years to get there but some sort of acknowledgement is required for her.

OP - would your daughter be ok with that?

Yes, teach your child that everyone must bend to her will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The neighbors mom should tell her kid to, at a minimum, wave or make eye contact and smile when yours says hi. That’s about as much as my shy kid can manage, and it’s taken us 10 years to get there but some sort of acknowledgement is required for her.

OP - would your daughter be ok with that?

Yes, teach your child that everyone must bend to her will.

You're quoting me and I don't really understand what you're trying to say.

Are you insulting me or the OP? Be a little more clear with your rudeness, please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's such a tendency/desire to respond to an OP's posts with criticism that all common sense goes out the window.

If the other mother is big on everyone being kind and polite and inclusive, it is highly unlikely that her own DD has a neuro-atypical issue that prohibits decent behavior.

OP I always tell my kids that this is a learning moment. Bored, uninterested people are boring and uninteresting. This girl doesn't seem happy. That is sad. Let how you feel in this moment serve as a reminder to go out of your way to show kindness to others.

We're too willing to not judge and make excuses and say everyone is great. Some people have poor character. Some people are not good people. It's a good skill to be able to identify this. I am not talking about the girl because she is a young child. I am talking about her parents and they way she is being raised and what her parents puts up with. Her mom also sounds like a hypocrite.

This is why girls falter with friendships in MS/HS and relationships in college. Assuming the best from people who do not deserve it.

LOOOOOL yes the problem with girl friendships in middle school is that they just don’t judge enough!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My 11 stands in the garage until we see the bus coming, instead of going to the stop which is probably only 50 feet away.

She's not a morning person and we let her wait for the bus as she wants.

It's not rude to want a little space

But your daughter is coming up with a solution that affords her space without ignoring someone who is greeting her.

Also, you can say hi and still have space. You can say "Hi" and then turn to talk to your mom or get out a book to read. You can even say "Hi -- I'm going to take some space for myself, I'm just not a morning person."

Ignoring someone who says hello to you, that you know and see on a regular basis, actually IS rude, even if the reasons behind it are understandable. It's worth it to teach kids that they can set boundaries with other people without just shutting others out or ignoring them.

In OP original post "She stands at the top of her driveway, while my DD stands on the curb. "

Leave this girl the hell alone!

OP here... I truly mean this without any snark... but how is saying a quick "good morning" while giving her the physical space she seems to want, bothering her? Or enough to illicit a "Leave this girl the hell alone!" response? It's not like my DD is forcing her to have a conversation or invading her personal space.

We can turn this around though.

Your daughter also needs to learn that if someone is putting out social clues that they want to be left alone, then you should leave them alone.

Standing alone at the top of the driveway (or as my DD does: in the garage) is a pretty clear signal that they want to be left alone.

It's actually kind of rude to try to engage in conversation with a person who is making it clear that they don't want to be engaged.

Its like the guys at the gyms that keep try to talk to women, even when the women have headphones on. Your daughter has to learn to read the room

+1. Do I think the girls behavior is ideal? No. Do I think OP’s kid needs to learn to read the room? Yes.

The reality is my husband isn’t a morning person. Me telling him a bright “hello” at 7am isn’t going to get me the response I want. I’ve learned to read the room.

+1

OP isn't going to like this, but her DD is being just as rude (or honestly, imo, ruder) than the other little girl. You don't have some god-given right to conversation. This kid made it perfectly clear by standing at the top of the driveway that she did not want to engage. OP, and her daughter, should have respected that

"Hi" or even polite wave and smile, is not conversation.

Expecting people to acknowledge our existence is actually sort of the bare minimum of what we CAN expect from other people. Except I guess not anymore, because we're all going to claim spectrum disorders to get us out of doing even the most minor possible thing to sustain some kind of social ties?

We need to teach our kids that saying hello, goodbye, thank you, and you're welcome are not burdensome. No, not even for people with social anxiety or spectrum disorders. They might have to work harder to do this, but it's still not a burden. That's like saying "well my kid has a spectrum disorder, so I don't make her brush her teeth." Or "my kid has a spectrum disorder, so I've decided it's okay for her to stick her tongue out at the teacher and roll her eyes when he asks her to turn in her work." Like yes, some people do have to work harder to do basic things, but that doesn't suddenly mean that those things are suddenly too much to ask.

It's not too much to ask. I agree with PPs that OP should take the opportunity to help her DD figure out how to deal with it when people are rude. Absolutely, that's going to be a good skill to have. But the other girl is being rude even if there is a reason why saying hello in response to someone greeting you is harder for her than it might be for the average person.

Also, hey, being rude is not the end of the world. But we should at least be able to acknowledge when something is rude. Standing there not responding when someone you know says hello to you is rude. No matter why you are doing it.

The PPs explaining that the girl might be shy, introverted, anxious etc. were (for the most part) not denying that the behavior is rude. They were just responding to the OP's assumption that the girl was mean and intending to signal to her DD that she doesn't like her. They were explaining why that might not be the case. Most of these PPs expressed that they are working on the issues with their kids, but it's a slow process, and they (the parents) try to be extra friendly to compensate for their kid. Eight isn't 4, but it's still young.

Multiple posters have said “it’s not rudeness, it’s (insert presumed diagnosis with no evidence here).”

That’s what I love so much about contemporary parenting. Mommies are just sooooo tired that they’d rather presume that their kid has a neurodivergence that requires delicate sensitive tip-toeing around and maybe fingers crossed a 1 on 1 and extra test time and a calligraphied IEP than actually attempt to parent their slightly struggling kid. It’s hilarious.

Op here… I’ve never felt like this… until
this thread.

Honestly the crazy thing I left out is that my DD has anxiety. But she’s also very friendly (both can exist together before you come at me)

It’s very obvious from your DDs reaction that she has anxiety or a similar issue. You need to help her with her issue not try and make sure that everyone always says hi to her.

I agree with this. It’s not a big deal and you and your DD should try to roll with this most minor of slights.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My 11 stands in the garage until we see the bus coming, instead of going to the stop which is probably only 50 feet away.

She's not a morning person and we let her wait for the bus as she wants.

It's not rude to want a little space

But your daughter is coming up with a solution that affords her space without ignoring someone who is greeting her.

Also, you can say hi and still have space. You can say "Hi" and then turn to talk to your mom or get out a book to read. You can even say "Hi -- I'm going to take some space for myself, I'm just not a morning person."

Ignoring someone who says hello to you, that you know and see on a regular basis, actually IS rude, even if the reasons behind it are understandable. It's worth it to teach kids that they can set boundaries with other people without just shutting others out or ignoring them.

In OP original post "She stands at the top of her driveway, while my DD stands on the curb. "

Leave this girl the hell alone!

OP here... I truly mean this without any snark... but how is saying a quick "good morning" while giving her the physical space she seems to want, bothering her? Or enough to illicit a "Leave this girl the hell alone!" response? It's not like my DD is forcing her to have a conversation or invading her personal space.

OP, it's monday and the bored moms here have to take their snark out on us which they always do in very typical fashion. Ignore them. You can see it when they are saying the girl saying Hi is mean girling the freak who can't say hi back. Don't come here for real advice.

Op here. I was pretty taken aback to hear that saying good morning while still respecting the boundaries this other girl is putting in place is somehow “mean girl” behavior.

Once when DD was a bit younger, I said hi to a neighbor I didn’t know on a walk and she said “do you know them? Why did you say hi?” I told her that was the polite, kind thing to do.

Im still at a loss at how saying hello or good morning could ever be received in a negative way.

You're missing the point, which at this point is not at all surprising. I wouldn't be at all shocked to find out that your daughter actually had been mean to this girl at some point. I also wouldn't be surprised to find out how some of the people in your neighborhood feel about you.

Op, some of these people responding like this are officially insane.

Only the delusional weirdos here could turn "my child says hi, other child ignores her" into YOUR KID IS A MEAN GIRL AND YOUR NEIGHBORS DON'T LIKE YOU.

There seem to be a lot of dramatics in both sides. Like—how is “my child says hi, other child ignores her” the same as “the other child is obviously a rude, coddled B with a lazy hypocrite for a mother”?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Unfriendly = mean comments, bumping as you pass, whispering, glaring, getting others involved in being mean.

Neutral = doesn’t choose to interact with your kid. NOT A CRIME.

Friendly = friendly, but guess what, still human and imperfect, so maybe some bumps on the road here and there

Does-not-exist-OP-expectation-of-friendship = absolutely perfectly friendly at all times

You must’ve missed where I’ve said multiple times that there’s no expectation of friendship

You must have missed where NEUTRAL IS WHAT THIS KID IS, not “unfriendly.”

No, ignoring someone who says hi to you really is unfeiendly. I think you're trying to make it ok by saying it's neutral. But it's not neutral, it's literally unfriendly. If someone you know and see every day says hi, and you ignore them, you are being unfriendly. You cannot unilaterally change the definition of words.

This. Some of these posters should read up on the psychological effects of the silent treatment. Ignoring someone is a form of rejection and is how many people express anger or resentment. It's considered dysfunctional.

I'm not saying that means the 8 yr old should be forced to say hi to anyone, these kids are young and still learning, just saying that the idea that refusing to say hi to someone who has greeted you could be seen as a "neutral" behavior is not an argument that most psychologists would agree with. It is a hurtful behavior and it's normal for OP's DD to feel hurt by it. I get what people are saying about learning not to care -- I agree people do need to learn not to take it personally. But silent treatment is a dysfunctional behavior and being hurt by the silent treatment is a normal reaction.

Oh my god, one neighbor not saying hi once a day is not “the silent treatment”. You are so melodramatic!,

Someone refusing to acknowledge you every day is definitionally the silent treatment, I don't know what you are talking about. I don't think I'm being dramatic or melodramatic, just noting that feelings of rejection when someone ignores you are normal.

[Anonymous]

Kids who stutter frequently struggle with making eye contact.
Kids who are shy frequently struggle with making eye contact
I assume the same could be true for kids on the spectrum.

If the mom is vocal about being kind, it’s probably because her child is struggling in other ways with making friends. It probably goes beyond your child and the bus stop. Just because it seems easy for you doesn’t mean it’s easy for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Unfriendly = mean comments, bumping as you pass, whispering, glaring, getting others involved in being mean.

Neutral = doesn’t choose to interact with your kid. NOT A CRIME.

Friendly = friendly, but guess what, still human and imperfect, so maybe some bumps on the road here and there

Does-not-exist-OP-expectation-of-friendship = absolutely perfectly friendly at all times

You must’ve missed where I’ve said multiple times that there’s no expectation of friendship

You must have missed where NEUTRAL IS WHAT THIS KID IS, not “unfriendly.”

No, ignoring someone who says hi to you really is unfeiendly. I think you're trying to make it ok by saying it's neutral. But it's not neutral, it's literally unfriendly. If someone you know and see every day says hi, and you ignore them, you are being unfriendly. You cannot unilaterally change the definition of words.

This. Some of these posters should read up on the psychological effects of the silent treatment. Ignoring someone is a form of rejection and is how many people express anger or resentment. It's considered dysfunctional.

I'm not saying that means the 8 yr old should be forced to say hi to anyone, these kids are young and still learning, just saying that the idea that refusing to say hi to someone who has greeted you could be seen as a "neutral" behavior is not an argument that most psychologists would agree with. It is a hurtful behavior and it's normal for OP's DD to feel hurt by it. I get what people are saying about learning not to care -- I agree people do need to learn not to take it personally. But silent treatment is a dysfunctional behavior and being hurt by the silent treatment is a normal reaction.

Oh my god, one neighbor not saying hi once a day is not “the silent treatment”. You are so melodramatic!,

Someone refusing to acknowledge you every day is definitionally the silent treatment, I don't know what you are talking about. I don't think I'm being dramatic or melodramatic, just noting that feelings of rejection when someone ignores you are normal.

Lady, the studies about the psychological effects of the silent treatment are not talking about one kid not saying hi back to another one at the bus stop. Come on.

[Anonymous]

going back to the original question:

My question is… the mom of this girl is VERY vocal about kids not being friendly/kind/etc in our grade. It’s a frequent topic of hers… the hypocrisy is starting to grate on me. Would you say something the next time she brings this up?


MY ANSWER: If she brings this up to you, you have every right to say: Karen, I've noticed that Larla never says hi to Ella at the bus stop. I wonder if other kids in the class are not being kind to her because they think her shyness is rude or unfriendly. Might I suggest the therapist that Ella sees for her anxiety? She's been really helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfriendly = mean comments, bumping as you pass, whispering, glaring, getting others involved in being mean.

Neutral = doesn’t choose to interact with your kid. NOT A CRIME.

Friendly = friendly, but guess what, still human and imperfect, so maybe some bumps on the road here and there

Does-not-exist-OP-expectation-of-friendship = absolutely perfectly friendly at all times

You must’ve missed where I’ve said multiple times that there’s no expectation of friendship

You must have missed where NEUTRAL IS WHAT THIS KID IS, not “unfriendly.”

No, ignoring someone who says hi to you really is unfeiendly. I think you're trying to make it ok by saying it's neutral. But it's not neutral, it's literally unfriendly. If someone you know and see every day says hi, and you ignore them, you are being unfriendly. You cannot unilaterally change the definition of words.

This. Some of these posters should read up on the psychological effects of the silent treatment. Ignoring someone is a form of rejection and is how many people express anger or resentment. It's considered dysfunctional.

I'm not saying that means the 8 yr old should be forced to say hi to anyone, these kids are young and still learning, just saying that the idea that refusing to say hi to someone who has greeted you could be seen as a "neutral" behavior is not an argument that most psychologists would agree with. It is a hurtful behavior and it's normal for OP's DD to feel hurt by it. I get what people are saying about learning not to care -- I agree people do need to learn not to take it personally. But silent treatment is a dysfunctional behavior and being hurt by the silent treatment is a normal reaction.

Oh my god, one neighbor not saying hi once a day is not “the silent treatment”. You are so melodramatic!,

Someone refusing to acknowledge you every day is definitionally the silent treatment, I don't know what you are talking about. I don't think I'm being dramatic or melodramatic, just noting that feelings of rejection when someone ignores you are normal.

Lady, the studies about the psychological effects of the silent treatment are not talking about one kid not saying hi back to another one at the bus stop. Come on.

If it happens once or twice, agree. If it is every day and is intentional, yes, it is the silent treatment.

"The silent treatment refers to the act of intentionally withdrawing from an interaction, refusing to engage further, and shutting the other person out for extended periods of time. When this happens, the person on the receiving end feels invisible, like they don’t matter. Although there are many reasons someone might use the silent treatment, it often has negative consequences and can become abusive."

https://www.choosingtherapy.com/silent-treatment/

But when I mentioned the silent treatment, I wasn't even saying "this falls within the technical definition." I mentioned it because it explains why something like this would cause anxiety in OP's DD, and why OP would feel it was rude. Being ignored makes people feel worthless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfriendly = mean comments, bumping as you pass, whispering, glaring, getting others involved in being mean.

Neutral = doesn’t choose to interact with your kid. NOT A CRIME.

Friendly = friendly, but guess what, still human and imperfect, so maybe some bumps on the road here and there

Does-not-exist-OP-expectation-of-friendship = absolutely perfectly friendly at all times

You must’ve missed where I’ve said multiple times that there’s no expectation of friendship

You must have missed where NEUTRAL IS WHAT THIS KID IS, not “unfriendly.”

No, ignoring someone who says hi to you really is unfeiendly. I think you're trying to make it ok by saying it's neutral. But it's not neutral, it's literally unfriendly. If someone you know and see every day says hi, and you ignore them, you are being unfriendly. You cannot unilaterally change the definition of words.

You also don't get to decide what is and isn't friendly, nor when it is or isn't a problem.

We've seen posts on here where grandparents get mad that kids won't hug them and the universal answer is that kids should have autonomy over their bodies and they get to decide whether or not they will hug someone. The grandparents would say the kid is being rude, but they're wrong.

Also, continuing to say hello to someone who has no interest in talking to you could also be considered unfriendly. If a co-worker decides they want to chat with you every morning on your ride up to the 55th floor and you decide you just want some peace and quiet - who is the unfriendly one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfriendly = mean comments, bumping as you pass, whispering, glaring, getting others involved in being mean.

Neutral = doesn’t choose to interact with your kid. NOT A CRIME.

Friendly = friendly, but guess what, still human and imperfect, so maybe some bumps on the road here and there

Does-not-exist-OP-expectation-of-friendship = absolutely perfectly friendly at all times

You must’ve missed where I’ve said multiple times that there’s no expectation of friendship

You must have missed where NEUTRAL IS WHAT THIS KID IS, not “unfriendly.”

No, ignoring someone who says hi to you really is unfeiendly. I think you're trying to make it ok by saying it's neutral. But it's not neutral, it's literally unfriendly. If someone you know and see every day says hi, and you ignore them, you are being unfriendly. You cannot unilaterally change the definition of words.

This. Some of these posters should read up on the psychological effects of the silent treatment. Ignoring someone is a form of rejection and is how many people express anger or resentment. It's considered dysfunctional.

I'm not saying that means the 8 yr old should be forced to say hi to anyone, these kids are young and still learning, just saying that the idea that refusing to say hi to someone who has greeted you could be seen as a "neutral" behavior is not an argument that most psychologists would agree with. It is a hurtful behavior and it's normal for OP's DD to feel hurt by it. I get what people are saying about learning not to care -- I agree people do need to learn not to take it personally. But silent treatment is a dysfunctional behavior and being hurt by the silent treatment is a normal reaction.

It's a wonder some of you people are able to make it through the day. If you say hi to your metro seatmate and they don't respond do you just get off the train and go home and cry?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't know the situation or why the other child is like this. If she's not actively being mean to your child, let it go.

Op here… ignoring another kid when they try to talk to you IS mean. I would not be pleased if my child did that. My DD has been visibly upset about it a couple of mornings.

For context, this girl doesn’t have special needs and seems to have several friends in the grade.

Trying to force conversion from someone who obviously has anxiety is cruel. You're the mean one.
The world doesn't need to make itself uncomfortable to make you feel good everybday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfriendly = mean comments, bumping as you pass, whispering, glaring, getting others involved in being mean.

Neutral = doesn’t choose to interact with your kid. NOT A CRIME.

Friendly = friendly, but guess what, still human and imperfect, so maybe some bumps on the road here and there

Does-not-exist-OP-expectation-of-friendship = absolutely perfectly friendly at all times

You must’ve missed where I’ve said multiple times that there’s no expectation of friendship

You must have missed where NEUTRAL IS WHAT THIS KID IS, not “unfriendly.”

No, ignoring someone who says hi to you really is unfeiendly. I think you're trying to make it ok by saying it's neutral. But it's not neutral, it's literally unfriendly. If someone you know and see every day says hi, and you ignore them, you are being unfriendly. You cannot unilaterally change the definition of words.

You also don't get to decide what is and isn't friendly, nor when it is or isn't a problem.

We've seen posts on here where grandparents get mad that kids won't hug them and the universal answer is that kids should have autonomy over their bodies and they get to decide whether or not they will hug someone. The grandparents would say the kid is being rude, but they're wrong.

Also, continuing to say hello to someone who has no interest in talking to you could also be considered unfriendly. If a co-worker decides they want to chat with you every morning on your ride up to the 55th floor and you decide you just want some peace and quiet - who is the unfriendly one?

My neighbor used to do this to my child who has medically induced anxiety due to an underlying condition.
She knew he was uncomfortable and fearful because I had explained it to her.
Yet each morning, she made it her business to try to make DC talk and then would walk off with a little smirk on her face.
When we got to know the neighbor better later on, it became obvious to everyone that she is a narcissist. She also disclosed she has bipolar disorder. She absolutely couldn't stand to feel slighted or ignored for a minute every day- didn't matter that it was a child whonwas suffering. She absolutely lacked the empathy to feel how bad she was making him feel- or to care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I just wanted to commiserate a bit. My DD has a girl like this in her dance class. DD is gregarious and loves dance, and greets her classmates and says goodbye to them by name. She doesn't pester or annoy them, just says "Hi Larla" or whatever. There is one classmate who not only never reciprocates but I have seen her visibly roll her eyes at my DD when she greets her. And again, it's not even some aggressive move -- I watched this interaction last week when we were leaving and my DD said "See you next week" to the girl in passing as we walked out, and the girl looked at her, grimaced, and rolled her eyes. Her mom was right there but I don't think saw the behavior.

I've taught my DD to be polite to other people and let her know that while she absolutely does not have to be friends with everyone, being polite costs you absolutely nothing. It's a shame how many other parents don't seem to bother with this.

Op here. Thank you!!! I’m shocked at how many people are like “oh well, who cares”. I’d be mortified if my DD acted like that. Even if this girl really doesn’t care for my DD, a simple “good morning” isn’t a huge ask.

Yes, I’m teaching DD to not worry when someone is unkind to her, but on the flip side, maybe this girls parents should teach their DD about general politeness

Honestly a lot of people are so me centric they don't even bother to consider that their actions may be affecting others. People who do not work on manners are helping perpetuate a society of people who are isolated and self centered.