Big 3 Nightmare

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think you really believe this. There are plenty of good public schools and less renowned private schools where your kid could get a great K-12 education. Nobody puts their kids in private if they believe public schools are just as good for K-12. Why would all those other things you value disappear once they go to college? (Prestigious name, exclusivity, less chance of riff-raff, almost everyone you socialize with is from a prominent/wealthy/connected family, smaller setting, individual attention, etc...)

Because, genius, for college, we choose among hundreds of schools across the country. For K-12 we can choose from a handful that are within a decent commute from our house.

On a national basis, there are plenty of public schools that are just as good or better than private schools. That can’t be said for K-12 schools that are within a 20 minute drive at my house.

I can’t believe this actually needs saying, but apparently it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should have applied to one of those reaches ED (Barnard, Davidson, Wash U) instead of to HYP SCEA or Brown ED. The UC schools aren't taking hardly any out of state students any more - someone should've told her that.

Top 20%/1500 isn't all that great, sorry.

Only in your mind is this not great.

I know what I'm talking about. Our unhooked DD had a 3.9+/1570 at a Big 3 school and was told that HYP was unlikely so the better play was to apply ED to another top school because RD is a crapshoot.

I'm not saying the kid isn't great, but the stats aren't.

Those stats are absolutely fine for HYP…but the CCO knew there were 10 double legacy kids to those schools and athletes, etc applying and those schools are only taking X kids from the school…because that is all they take year in and year out

Yes you just hit the nail on the head. Students are competing with their classmates. Need to be savvy about not applying where others have hooks better than yours. Student in my kid’s class is a triple legacy at Stanford and also really bright in their own right so that school is completely off the table for my high stats kid.

Ok i like where this discussion is headed because we are getting deep and real now.

We have a Big 3 3.8+!1500 kid who was rejected at all reaches (including a legacy REA) and admitted at two targets and safeties.

What I wish CCO did with us was to be very upfront about what you say. Instead we noticed a lot of double talk and no clear guidance. Never was told I would not apply to X because there is a VIP double legacy and a works class athlete applying there. And that college only ever takes one from our school if any. Instead was told “it will be tough but if it’s in your heart, then apply”.

Maybe inspect too much from CCO and they can’t be that honest. I found that the busy body parents were subtly gathering info on where top academic kids were applying early at parent cocktail parties. Their kids were too

We are also at the school where they don’t use data or share scattergrams at all. So we and 17 year old were left reading tone and body language over zoom from our CCO. Never given factual or hard data driven advice.

That said it’s all a lottery and my kid didn’t win a reach lottery.

One more thing - this thread discusses whether we have kids there at BUg 3 to get onto T20. Answer for me - sort of. First priority is a great education. But for a kid in the top 10-12 kids in the class, I did actually expect back when our kid started 10 years ago at this Big 3 that being legacy at a HYP and being from a Big 3 would help with Top 20.

It didn’t for us. I’m not upset at the Big 3 for that. The game changed entirely after class of 2019 and those attributes our kid had were no longer what institutional priorities are at T20. Just a very solid academic EC kid but not a world class anything. and not URM.

Our kid will still have an amazing life so zero bitterness here. Kid has a great education, will go to a solid university and will hopefully shine there.

I do have some lingering bitterness at the CCO at our Big 3 not being more data driven, direct and clear in list formation. That’s very specific to our school that is known for its “relax” and “trust the kid’s feelings and their heart” attitude. I truly dislike that and found that lack of clear communication actually way stressed out the process because I actually ended up not trusting time at all and not being relaxed.

When the next kid goes through this we will be much more direct asking CCO hard questions about who else applying VIP multi hooked and using ED more wisely and actuallly not trusting Big 3 CCO platitudes.

Sounds like your kid will do just fine. But yes, it would be nice if the CCO at your elite school that you pay a fortune to attend was more data driven, because yes, they know that certain schools are only going to take X kids from your school, so if there are X+ already applying ED with better resume, then you should be told that and guided towards a better ED choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should have applied to one of those reaches ED (Barnard, Davidson, Wash U) instead of to HYP SCEA or Brown ED. The UC schools aren't taking hardly any out of state students any more - someone should've told her that.

Top 20%/1500 isn't all that great, sorry.

Only in your mind is this not great.

I know what I'm talking about. Our unhooked DD had a 3.9+/1570 at a Big 3 school and was told that HYP was unlikely so the better play was to apply ED to another top school because RD is a crapshoot.

I'm not saying the kid isn't great, but the stats aren't.

Those stats are absolutely fine for HYP…but the CCO knew there were 10 double legacy kids to those schools and athletes, etc applying and those schools are only taking X kids from the school…because that is all they take year in and year out

Yes you just hit the nail on the head. Students are competing with their classmates. Need to be savvy about not applying where others have hooks better than yours. Student in my kid’s class is a triple legacy at Stanford and also really bright in their own right so that school is completely off the table for my high stats kid.

Ok i like where this discussion is headed because we are getting deep and real now.

We have a Big 3 3.8+!1500 kid who was rejected at all reaches (including a legacy REA) and admitted at two targets and safeties.

What I wish CCO did with us was to be very upfront about what you say. Instead we noticed a lot of double talk and no clear guidance. Never was told I would not apply to X because there is a VIP double legacy and a works class athlete applying there. And that college only ever takes one from our school if any. Instead was told “it will be tough but if it’s in your heart, then apply”.

Maybe inspect too much from CCO and they can’t be that honest. I found that the busy body parents were subtly gathering info on where top academic kids were applying early at parent cocktail parties. Their kids were too

We are also at the school where they don’t use data or share scattergrams at all. So we and 17 year old were left reading tone and body language over zoom from our CCO. Never given factual or hard data driven advice.

That said it’s all a lottery and my kid didn’t win a reach lottery.

One more thing - this thread discusses whether we have kids there at BUg 3 to get onto T20. Answer for me - sort of. First priority is a great education. But for a kid in the top 10-12 kids in the class, I did actually expect back when our kid started 10 years ago at this Big 3 that being legacy at a HYP and being from a Big 3 would help with Top 20.

It didn’t for us. I’m not upset at the Big 3 for that. The game changed entirely after class of 2019 and those attributes our kid had were no longer what institutional priorities are at T20. Just a very solid academic EC kid but not a world class anything. and not URM.

Our kid will still have an amazing life so zero bitterness here. Kid has a great education, will go to a solid university and will hopefully shine there.

I do have some lingering bitterness at the CCO at our Big 3 not being more data driven, direct and clear in list formation. That’s very specific to our school that is known for its “relax” and “trust the kid’s feelings and their heart” attitude. I truly dislike that and found that lack of clear communication actually way stressed out the process because I actually ended up not trusting time at all and not being relaxed.

When the next kid goes through this we will be much more direct asking CCO hard questions about who else applying VIP multi hooked and using ED more wisely and actuallly not trusting Big 3 CCO platitudes.

Is this GDS? (asks a former GDS parent)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SO all those with supposedly unhooked DC with 1500 should tell us what the secret ingredient was...
Or...perhaps just a bit of luck, because that poster who keeps claiming that applying to more of the top 20/30 schools doesn't statistically increase acceptance rates is probably just a Big 3 college counselor who doesn't know statistics. With acceptance rates in the single digits and many many qualified applicants (remember niece also had exceptional extracurriculars which didn't get discussed!), it's in good part luck of the draw, like in a lottery. And could it be that many of those lower tier colleges might not have accepted niece because they thought she'd place better and they were concerned about yield? Should this girl really have applied ED to BC or her parental legacy to have a shot at a decent outcome? If that is what one has to do after paying 200k+ for a Big 3, won't many people opt out of the private schools?

The point of attending a big 3 is college preparation & socialization. We were under no delusions that paying X amount of money for high school would buy our child a spot at a certain university.

What “socialization” benefit do you believe you derived?

Are you this dense in real life too?

Are you? You come across as a social climber or an elitist without adding context that would show otherwise (such as small class environment)

Yeah…they don’t mean small class environment. They mean creating a personal network that hopefully pays off in life…either rich kids more easily finding each other or just UMC or financial aid kids benefiting from friendships with rich kids to pay off.

Those are perfectly rational reasons even though they don’t sound so nice.

I knew what they meant and they can go ahead and think that (or maybe they actively sought this once attending) but we have seen no "socialization benefit" of attending a Big 3. (but we weren't looking for that either)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should have applied to one of those reaches ED (Barnard, Davidson, Wash U) instead of to HYP SCEA or Brown ED. The UC schools aren't taking hardly any out of state students any more - someone should've told her that.

Top 20%/1500 isn't all that great, sorry.

Only in your mind is this not great.

I know what I'm talking about. Our unhooked DD had a 3.9+/1570 at a Big 3 school and was told that HYP was unlikely so the better play was to apply ED to another top school because RD is a crapshoot.

I'm not saying the kid isn't great, but the stats aren't.

Those stats are absolutely fine for HYP…but the CCO knew there were 10 double legacy kids to those schools and athletes, etc applying and those schools are only taking X kids from the school…because that is all they take year in and year out

Yes you just hit the nail on the head. Students are competing with their classmates. Need to be savvy about not applying where others have hooks better than yours. Student in my kid’s class is a triple legacy at Stanford and also really bright in their own right so that school is completely off the table for my high stats kid.

Ok i like where this discussion is headed because we are getting deep and real now.

We have a Big 3 3.8+!1500 kid who was rejected at all reaches (including a legacy REA) and admitted at two targets and safeties.

What I wish CCO did with us was to be very upfront about what you say. Instead we noticed a lot of double talk and no clear guidance. Never was told I would not apply to X because there is a VIP double legacy and a works class athlete applying there. And that college only ever takes one from our school if any. Instead was told “it will be tough but if it’s in your heart, then apply”.

Maybe inspect too much from CCO and they can’t be that honest. I found that the busy body parents were subtly gathering info on where top academic kids were applying early at parent cocktail parties. Their kids were too

We are also at the school where they don’t use data or share scattergrams at all. So we and 17 year old were left reading tone and body language over zoom from our CCO. Never given factual or hard data driven advice.

That said it’s all a lottery and my kid didn’t win a reach lottery.

One more thing - this thread discusses whether we have kids there at BUg 3 to get onto T20. Answer for me - sort of. First priority is a great education. But for a kid in the top 10-12 kids in the class, I did actually expect back when our kid started 10 years ago at this Big 3 that being legacy at a HYP and being from a Big 3 would help with Top 20.

It didn’t for us. I’m not upset at the Big 3 for that. The game changed entirely after class of 2019 and those attributes our kid had were no longer what institutional priorities are at T20. Just a very solid academic EC kid but not a world class anything. and not URM.

Our kid will still have an amazing life so zero bitterness here. Kid has a great education, will go to a solid university and will hopefully shine there.

I do have some lingering bitterness at the CCO at our Big 3 not being more data driven, direct and clear in list formation. That’s very specific to our school that is known for its “relax” and “trust the kid’s feelings and their heart” attitude. I truly dislike that and found that lack of clear communication actually way stressed out the process because I actually ended up not trusting time at all and not being relaxed.

When the next kid goes through this we will be much more direct asking CCO hard questions about who else applying VIP multi hooked and using ED more wisely and actuallly not trusting Big 3 CCO platitudes.

They won't answer these questions - we asked even less intrusive questions based on prior history (how many of the acceptances at schools X, Y, or Z - if ANY at all - in our child's stats range were non-legacy, non-athlete)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should have applied to one of those reaches ED (Barnard, Davidson, Wash U) instead of to HYP SCEA or Brown ED. The UC schools aren't taking hardly any out of state students any more - someone should've told her that.

Top 20%/1500 isn't all that great, sorry.

Only in your mind is this not great.

I know what I'm talking about. Our unhooked DD had a 3.9+/1570 at a Big 3 school and was told that HYP was unlikely so the better play was to apply ED to another top school because RD is a crapshoot.

I'm not saying the kid isn't great, but the stats aren't.

Those stats are absolutely fine for HYP…but the CCO knew there were 10 double legacy kids to those schools and athletes, etc applying and those schools are only taking X kids from the school…because that is all they take year in and year out

You should be asking parents and students. Schools won't and shouldn't be revealing that info (at least not without permission).


Yes you just hit the nail on the head. Students are competing with their classmates. Need to be savvy about not applying where others have hooks better than yours. Student in my kid’s class is a triple legacy at Stanford and also really bright in their own right so that school is completely off the table for my high stats kid.

Ok i like where this discussion is headed because we are getting deep and real now.

We have a Big 3 3.8+!1500 kid who was rejected at all reaches (including a legacy REA) and admitted at two targets and safeties.

What I wish CCO did with us was to be very upfront about what you say. Instead we noticed a lot of double talk and no clear guidance. Never was told I would not apply to X because there is a VIP double legacy and a works class athlete applying there. And that college only ever takes one from our school if any. Instead was told “it will be tough but if it’s in your heart, then apply”.

Maybe inspect too much from CCO and they can’t be that honest. I found that the busy body parents were subtly gathering info on where top academic kids were applying early at parent cocktail parties. Their kids were too

We are also at the school where they don’t use data or share scattergrams at all. So we and 17 year old were left reading tone and body language over zoom from our CCO. Never given factual or hard data driven advice.

That said it’s all a lottery and my kid didn’t win a reach lottery.

One more thing - this thread discusses whether we have kids there at BUg 3 to get onto T20. Answer for me - sort of. First priority is a great education. But for a kid in the top 10-12 kids in the class, I did actually expect back when our kid started 10 years ago at this Big 3 that being legacy at a HYP and being from a Big 3 would help with Top 20.

It didn’t for us. I’m not upset at the Big 3 for that. The game changed entirely after class of 2019 and those attributes our kid had were no longer what institutional priorities are at T20. Just a very solid academic EC kid but not a world class anything. and not URM.

Our kid will still have an amazing life so zero bitterness here. Kid has a great education, will go to a solid university and will hopefully shine there.

I do have some lingering bitterness at the CCO at our Big 3 not being more data driven, direct and clear in list formation. That’s very specific to our school that is known for its “relax” and “trust the kid’s feelings and their heart” attitude. I truly dislike that and found that lack of clear communication actually way stressed out the process because I actually ended up not trusting time at all and not being relaxed.

When the next kid goes through this we will be much more direct asking CCO hard questions about who else applying VIP multi hooked and using ED more wisely and actuallly not trusting Big 3 CCO platitudes.

They won't answer these questions - we asked even less intrusive questions based on prior history (how many of the acceptances at schools X, Y, or Z - if ANY at all - in our child's stats range were non-legacy, non-athlete)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should have applied to one of those reaches ED (Barnard, Davidson, Wash U) instead of to HYP SCEA or Brown ED. The UC schools aren't taking hardly any out of state students any more - someone should've told her that.

Top 20%/1500 isn't all that great, sorry.

Only in your mind is this not great.

I know what I'm talking about. Our unhooked DD had a 3.9+/1570 at a Big 3 school and was told that HYP was unlikely so the better play was to apply ED to another top school because RD is a crapshoot.

I'm not saying the kid isn't great, but the stats aren't.

Those stats are absolutely fine for HYP…but the CCO knew there were 10 double legacy kids to those schools and athletes, etc applying and those schools are only taking X kids from the school…because that is all they take year in and year out

Yes you just hit the nail on the head. Students are competing with their classmates. Need to be savvy about not applying where others have hooks better than yours. Student in my kid’s class is a triple legacy at Stanford and also really bright in their own right so that school is completely off the table for my high stats kid.

Ok i like where this discussion is headed because we are getting deep and real now.

We have a Big 3 3.8+!1500 kid who was rejected at all reaches (including a legacy REA) and admitted at two targets and safeties.

What I wish CCO did with us was to be very upfront about what you say. Instead we noticed a lot of double talk and no clear guidance. Never was told I would not apply to X because there is a VIP double legacy and a works class athlete applying there. And that college only ever takes one from our school if any. Instead was told “it will be tough but if it’s in your heart, then apply”.

Maybe inspect too much from CCO and they can’t be that honest. I found that the busy body parents were subtly gathering info on where top academic kids were applying early at parent cocktail parties. Their kids were too

We are also at the school where they don’t use data or share scattergrams at all. So we and 17 year old were left reading tone and body language over zoom from our CCO. Never given factual or hard data driven advice.

That said it’s all a lottery and my kid didn’t win a reach lottery.

One more thing - this thread discusses whether we have kids there at BUg 3 to get onto T20. Answer for me - sort of. First priority is a great education. But for a kid in the top 10-12 kids in the class, I did actually expect back when our kid started 10 years ago at this Big 3 that being legacy at a HYP and being from a Big 3 would help with Top 20.

It didn’t for us. I’m not upset at the Big 3 for that. The game changed entirely after class of 2019 and those attributes our kid had were no longer what institutional priorities are at T20. Just a very solid academic EC kid but not a world class anything. and not URM.

Our kid will still have an amazing life so zero bitterness here. Kid has a great education, will go to a solid university and will hopefully shine there.

I do have some lingering bitterness at the CCO at our Big 3 not being more data driven, direct and clear in list formation. That’s very specific to our school that is known for its “relax” and “trust the kid’s feelings and their heart” attitude. I truly dislike that and found that lack of clear communication actually way stressed out the process because I actually ended up not trusting time at all and not being relaxed.

When the next kid goes through this we will be much more direct asking CCO hard questions about who else applying VIP multi hooked and using ED more wisely and actuallly not trusting Big 3 CCO platitudes.

+100. Out experience also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should have applied to one of those reaches ED (Barnard, Davidson, Wash U) instead of to HYP SCEA or Brown ED. The UC schools aren't taking hardly any out of state students any more - someone should've told her that.

Top 20%/1500 isn't all that great, sorry.

Only in your mind is this not great.

I know what I'm talking about. Our unhooked DD had a 3.9+/1570 at a Big 3 school and was told that HYP was unlikely so the better play was to apply ED to another top school because RD is a crapshoot.

I'm not saying the kid isn't great, but the stats aren't.

Those stats are absolutely fine for HYP…but the CCO knew there were 10 double legacy kids to those schools and athletes, etc applying and those schools are only taking X kids from the school…because that is all they take year in and year out

Yes you just hit the nail on the head. Students are competing with their classmates. Need to be savvy about not applying where others have hooks better than yours. Student in my kid’s class is a triple legacy at Stanford and also really bright in their own right so that school is completely off the table for my high stats kid.

Ok i like where this discussion is headed because we are getting deep and real now.

We have a Big 3 3.8+!1500 kid who was rejected at all reaches (including a legacy REA) and admitted at two targets and safeties.

What I wish CCO did with us was to be very upfront about what you say. Instead we noticed a lot of double talk and no clear guidance. Never was told I would not apply to X because there is a VIP double legacy and a works class athlete applying there. And that college only ever takes one from our school if any. Instead was told “it will be tough but if it’s in your heart, then apply”.

Maybe inspect too much from CCO and they can’t be that honest. I found that the busy body parents were subtly gathering info on where top academic kids were applying early at parent cocktail parties. Their kids were too

We are also at the school where they don’t use data or share scattergrams at all. So we and 17 year old were left reading tone and body language over zoom from our CCO. Never given factual or hard data driven advice.

That said it’s all a lottery and my kid didn’t win a reach lottery.

One more thing - this thread discusses whether we have kids there at BUg 3 to get onto T20. Answer for me - sort of. First priority is a great education. But for a kid in the top 10-12 kids in the class, I did actually expect back when our kid started 10 years ago at this Big 3 that being legacy at a HYP and being from a Big 3 would help with Top 20.

It didn’t for us. I’m not upset at the Big 3 for that. The game changed entirely after class of 2019 and those attributes our kid had were no longer what institutional priorities are at T20. Just a very solid academic EC kid but not a world class anything. and not URM.

Our kid will still have an amazing life so zero bitterness here. Kid has a great education, will go to a solid university and will hopefully shine there.

I do have some lingering bitterness at the CCO at our Big 3 not being more data driven, direct and clear in list formation. That’s very specific to our school that is known for its “relax” and “trust the kid’s feelings and their heart” attitude. I truly dislike that and found that lack of clear communication actually way stressed out the process because I actually ended up not trusting time at all and not being relaxed.

When the next kid goes through this we will be much more direct asking CCO hard questions about who else applying VIP multi hooked and using ED more wisely and actuallly not trusting Big 3 CCO platitudes.

Was your DC a lifer? While my DCs were circumspect about discussing where random kids in their class were applying, they were fairly aware what kids were doing and generally shared about their friends. Our DCs had two different CCOs, one who was also head of the office, at a Big 3 in different metro area (our DCs started at a Big 3 in DMV). The head never gave specific names but was fairly explicit about prospects with our DC about their first suggestion for ED1 (scenario: deferred in ED out of courtesy, then rejected in RD). The other CCO did something similar with DC#2. I doubt CCOs are going to provide details unsolicited, but they may respond to a question - "are there any kids who are legacies applying in this class?".

Asking about lifer as we pretty much knew most parents' details in their classes by the time we left the DMV. We didn't know as exhaustively when we moved, but picked up a fair amount over time at their second school. And even though our DCs didn't start their second school till later elementary/MS, our one kid was in all the top classes, so it was fairly easy to know who were the top students as they had been in classes together since 6th grade.

Our DCs' school doesn't use Naviance - or at least for kids/parents - and doesn't share internal data if they do have it. What I appreciated with DC#1 counselor is that they pivoted quickly after the 2020 admissions. Doubt they would have let a kid w/o a realistic list go forward or would probably tell parents, "this is gonna be on you" if they insisted on it. DC#2's was not so conservative and basically told our kid that a list capping out @ 30% admit rate would be fine. I was not really sanguine about that and also felt that DH was stuck in an admissions world when he attended school even if we had some contemporary evidence to the contrary (DH's best friend's kid getting rejected right and left at T20 even though 4.0/1560 SAT). Both our DCs got into their ED1s so it was a moot point, but do think DC#2 could've been in trouble based on what happened to some friends.

PP, you sound like a great parent. Your DC's CC office could benefit from your insights, but DK if you feel you can share.

GL to your DC with next school year!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much did college admissions weigh in your original decision to send your child to a Big 3? Many start far before high school, so the reasons for attending the school were not mostly about a great college, were they?

NP. Not at all for me. We left because my kid’s supposedly great public middle school assigned two books to read in three years and had kids vaping in classrooms.

That doesn't explain why you went to a Big 3. Plenty of private schools could solve for those problems.

Those privates aren’t worth paying for versus free public school. Schools like Bullis, Field & Flint Hill are public schools that you pay for to say your kid goes to private.

This is a good list. You can also add St Andrews, Maret, Landon and potomac (shoot me i know) This is probably the worst choice you can make if you care about the colleges your kids get into unless they’re an athlete

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should have applied to one of those reaches ED (Barnard, Davidson, Wash U) instead of to HYP SCEA or Brown ED. The UC schools aren't taking hardly any out of state students any more - someone should've told her that.

Top 20%/1500 isn't all that great, sorry.

Only in your mind is this not great.

I know what I'm talking about. Our unhooked DD had a 3.9+/1570 at a Big 3 school and was told that HYP was unlikely so the better play was to apply ED to another top school because RD is a crapshoot.

I'm not saying the kid isn't great, but the stats aren't.

Those stats are absolutely fine for HYP…but the CCO knew there were 10 double legacy kids to those schools and athletes, etc applying and those schools are only taking X kids from the school…because that is all they take year in and year out

Yes you just hit the nail on the head. Students are competing with their classmates. Need to be savvy about not applying where others have hooks better than yours. Student in my kid’s class is a triple legacy at Stanford and also really bright in their own right so that school is completely off the table for my high stats kid.

Ok i like where this discussion is headed because we are getting deep and real now.

We have a Big 3 3.8+!1500 kid who was rejected at all reaches (including a legacy REA) and admitted at two targets and safeties.

What I wish CCO did with us was to be very upfront about what you say. Instead we noticed a lot of double talk and no clear guidance. Never was told I would not apply to X because there is a VIP double legacy and a works class athlete applying there. And that college only ever takes one from our school if any. Instead was told “it will be tough but if it’s in your heart, then apply”.

Maybe inspect too much from CCO and they can’t be that honest. I found that the busy body parents were subtly gathering info on where top academic kids were applying early at parent cocktail parties. Their kids were too

We are also at the school where they don’t use data or share scattergrams at all. So we and 17 year old were left reading tone and body language over zoom from our CCO. Never given factual or hard data driven advice.

That said it’s all a lottery and my kid didn’t win a reach lottery.

One more thing - this thread discusses whether we have kids there at BUg 3 to get onto T20. Answer for me - sort of. First priority is a great education. But for a kid in the top 10-12 kids in the class, I did actually expect back when our kid started 10 years ago at this Big 3 that being legacy at a HYP and being from a Big 3 would help with Top 20.

It didn’t for us. I’m not upset at the Big 3 for that. The game changed entirely after class of 2019 and those attributes our kid had were no longer what institutional priorities are at T20. Just a very solid academic EC kid but not a world class anything. and not URM.

Our kid will still have an amazing life so zero bitterness here. Kid has a great education, will go to a solid university and will hopefully shine there.

I do have some lingering bitterness at the CCO at our Big 3 not being more data driven, direct and clear in list formation. That’s very specific to our school that is known for its “relax” and “trust the kid’s feelings and their heart” attitude. I truly dislike that and found that lack of clear communication actually way stressed out the process because I actually ended up not trusting time at all and not being relaxed.

When the next kid goes through this we will be much more direct asking CCO hard questions about who else applying VIP multi hooked and using ED more wisely and actuallly not trusting Big 3 CCO platitudes.

What is a target for a kid like this?

Well, you can target schools that don't give a bump to legacy...MIT, Amherst, CalTech (not sure what others...just listing some tops). MIT & CalTech don't really care about sports either...MIT does care, but not nearly as much as Ivy schools. You could also target Top 20 that have fairly high ED acceptance rates... Wash U is one of those. Imagine there are a couple of others with 40%+ ED rates.

Just some examples...if all you really care about is Top 20.

MIT cares very much about sports. They just go about recruiting differently and they don't compromise on academic standards the way Ivies do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much did college admissions weigh in your original decision to send your child to a Big 3? Many start far before high school, so the reasons for attending the school were not mostly about a great college, were they?

NP. Not at all for me. We left because my kid’s supposedly great public middle school assigned two books to read in three years and had kids vaping in classrooms.

That doesn't explain why you went to a Big 3. Plenty of private schools could solve for those problems.

Those privates aren’t worth paying for versus free public school. Schools like Bullis, Field & Flint Hill are public schools that you pay for to say your kid goes to private.

This is a good list. You can also add St Andrews, Maret, Landon and potomac (shoot me i know) This is probably the worst choice you can make if you care about the colleges your kids get into unless they’re an athlete

This is your unsolicited opinion. Others feel differently. Some of us want our kids to be happy go to a solid college. We are not brand name obsessed. There are many on-ramps to a successful life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should have applied to one of those reaches ED (Barnard, Davidson, Wash U) instead of to HYP SCEA or Brown ED. The UC schools aren't taking hardly any out of state students any more - someone should've told her that.

Top 20%/1500 isn't all that great, sorry.

Only in your mind is this not great.

I know what I'm talking about. Our unhooked DD had a 3.9+/1570 at a Big 3 school and was told that HYP was unlikely so the better play was to apply ED to another top school because RD is a crapshoot.

I'm not saying the kid isn't great, but the stats aren't.

Those stats are absolutely fine for HYP…but the CCO knew there were 10 double legacy kids to those schools and athletes, etc applying and those schools are only taking X kids from the school…because that is all they take year in and year out

Yes you just hit the nail on the head. Students are competing with their classmates. Need to be savvy about not applying where others have hooks better than yours. Student in my kid’s class is a triple legacy at Stanford and also really bright in their own right so that school is completely off the table for my high stats kid.

Ok i like where this discussion is headed because we are getting deep and real now.

We have a Big 3 3.8+!1500 kid who was rejected at all reaches (including a legacy REA) and admitted at two targets and safeties.

What I wish CCO did with us was to be very upfront about what you say. Instead we noticed a lot of double talk and no clear guidance. Never was told I would not apply to X because there is a VIP double legacy and a works class athlete applying there. And that college only ever takes one from our school if any. Instead was told “it will be tough but if it’s in your heart, then apply”.

Maybe inspect too much from CCO and they can’t be that honest. I found that the busy body parents were subtly gathering info on where top academic kids were applying early at parent cocktail parties. Their kids were too

We are also at the school where they don’t use data or share scattergrams at all. So we and 17 year old were left reading tone and body language over zoom from our CCO. Never given factual or hard data driven advice.

That said it’s all a lottery and my kid didn’t win a reach lottery.

One more thing - this thread discusses whether we have kids there at BUg 3 to get onto T20. Answer for me - sort of. First priority is a great education. But for a kid in the top 10-12 kids in the class, I did actually expect back when our kid started 10 years ago at this Big 3 that being legacy at a HYP and being from a Big 3 would help with Top 20.

It didn’t for us. I’m not upset at the Big 3 for that. The game changed entirely after class of 2019 and those attributes our kid had were no longer what institutional priorities are at T20. Just a very solid academic EC kid but not a world class anything. and not URM.

Our kid will still have an amazing life so zero bitterness here. Kid has a great education, will go to a solid university and will hopefully shine there.

I do have some lingering bitterness at the CCO at our Big 3 not being more data driven, direct and clear in list formation. That’s very specific to our school that is known for its “relax” and “trust the kid’s feelings and their heart” attitude. I truly dislike that and found that lack of clear communication actually way stressed out the process because I actually ended up not trusting time at all and not being relaxed.

When the next kid goes through this we will be much more direct asking CCO hard questions about who else applying VIP multi hooked and using ED more wisely and actuallly not trusting Big 3 CCO platitudes.

They won't answer these questions - we asked even less intrusive questions based on prior history (how many of the acceptances at schools X, Y, or Z - if ANY at all - in our child's stats range were non-legacy, non-athlete)

+1

They are not going to tell a kid not to apply to their top choice ED, even is 30 other kids are applying to the same school. I wish they would at least say "there are more than 20 classmates considering the same choice, some of them have one or more hooks. If this is your top choice, then great, but if you have a 1b that you like almost as much, you may want to pivot to that"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should have applied to one of those reaches ED (Barnard, Davidson, Wash U) instead of to HYP SCEA or Brown ED. The UC schools aren't taking hardly any out of state students any more - someone should've told her that.

Top 20%/1500 isn't all that great, sorry.

Only in your mind is this not great.

I know what I'm talking about. Our unhooked DD had a 3.9+/1570 at a Big 3 school and was told that HYP was unlikely so the better play was to apply ED to another top school because RD is a crapshoot.

I'm not saying the kid isn't great, but the stats aren't.

Those stats are absolutely fine for HYP…but the CCO knew there were 10 double legacy kids to those schools and athletes, etc applying and those schools are only taking X kids from the school…because that is all they take year in and year out

Yes you just hit the nail on the head. Students are competing with their classmates. Need to be savvy about not applying where others have hooks better than yours. Student in my kid’s class is a triple legacy at Stanford and also really bright in their own right so that school is completely off the table for my high stats kid.

Ok i like where this discussion is headed because we are getting deep and real now.

We have a Big 3 3.8+!1500 kid who was rejected at all reaches (including a legacy REA) and admitted at two targets and safeties.

What I wish CCO did with us was to be very upfront about what you say. Instead we noticed a lot of double talk and no clear guidance. Never was told I would not apply to X because there is a VIP double legacy and a works class athlete applying there. And that college only ever takes one from our school if any. Instead was told “it will be tough but if it’s in your heart, then apply”.

Maybe inspect too much from CCO and they can’t be that honest. I found that the busy body parents were subtly gathering info on where top academic kids were applying early at parent cocktail parties. Their kids were too

We are also at the school where they don’t use data or share scattergrams at all. So we and 17 year old were left reading tone and body language over zoom from our CCO. Never given factual or hard data driven advice.

That said it’s all a lottery and my kid didn’t win a reach lottery.

One more thing - this thread discusses whether we have kids there at BUg 3 to get onto T20. Answer for me - sort of. First priority is a great education. But for a kid in the top 10-12 kids in the class, I did actually expect back when our kid started 10 years ago at this Big 3 that being legacy at a HYP and being from a Big 3 would help with Top 20.

It didn’t for us. I’m not upset at the Big 3 for that. The game changed entirely after class of 2019 and those attributes our kid had were no longer what institutional priorities are at T20. Just a very solid academic EC kid but not a world class anything. and not URM.

Our kid will still have an amazing life so zero bitterness here. Kid has a great education, will go to a solid university and will hopefully shine there.

I do have some lingering bitterness at the CCO at our Big 3 not being more data driven, direct and clear in list formation. That’s very specific to our school that is known for its “relax” and “trust the kid’s feelings and their heart” attitude. I truly dislike that and found that lack of clear communication actually way stressed out the process because I actually ended up not trusting time at all and not being relaxed.

When the next kid goes through this we will be much more direct asking CCO hard questions about who else applying VIP multi hooked and using ED more wisely and actuallly not trusting Big 3 CCO platitudes.

Is this GDS? (asks a former GDS parent)

PP here. Yep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should have applied to one of those reaches ED (Barnard, Davidson, Wash U) instead of to HYP SCEA or Brown ED. The UC schools aren't taking hardly any out of state students any more - someone should've told her that.

Top 20%/1500 isn't all that great, sorry.

Only in your mind is this not great.

I know what I'm talking about. Our unhooked DD had a 3.9+/1570 at a Big 3 school and was told that HYP was unlikely so the better play was to apply ED to another top school because RD is a crapshoot.

I'm not saying the kid isn't great, but the stats aren't.

Those stats are absolutely fine for HYP…but the CCO knew there were 10 double legacy kids to those schools and athletes, etc applying and those schools are only taking X kids from the school…because that is all they take year in and year out

Yes you just hit the nail on the head. Students are competing with their classmates. Need to be savvy about not applying where others have hooks better than yours. Student in my kid’s class is a triple legacy at Stanford and also really bright in their own right so that school is completely off the table for my high stats kid.

Ok i like where this discussion is headed because we are getting deep and real now.

We have a Big 3 3.8+!1500 kid who was rejected at all reaches (including a legacy REA) and admitted at two targets and safeties.

What I wish CCO did with us was to be very upfront about what you say. Instead we noticed a lot of double talk and no clear guidance. Never was told I would not apply to X because there is a VIP double legacy and a works class athlete applying there. And that college only ever takes one from our school if any. Instead was told “it will be tough but if it’s in your heart, then apply”.

Maybe inspect too much from CCO and they can’t be that honest. I found that the busy body parents were subtly gathering info on where top academic kids were applying early at parent cocktail parties. Their kids were too

We are also at the school where they don’t use data or share scattergrams at all. So we and 17 year old were left reading tone and body language over zoom from our CCO. Never given factual or hard data driven advice.

That said it’s all a lottery and my kid didn’t win a reach lottery.

One more thing - this thread discusses whether we have kids there at BUg 3 to get onto T20. Answer for me - sort of. First priority is a great education. But for a kid in the top 10-12 kids in the class, I did actually expect back when our kid started 10 years ago at this Big 3 that being legacy at a HYP and being from a Big 3 would help with Top 20.

It didn’t for us. I’m not upset at the Big 3 for that. The game changed entirely after class of 2019 and those attributes our kid had were no longer what institutional priorities are at T20. Just a very solid academic EC kid but not a world class anything. and not URM.

Our kid will still have an amazing life so zero bitterness here. Kid has a great education, will go to a solid university and will hopefully shine there.

I do have some lingering bitterness at the CCO at our Big 3 not being more data driven, direct and clear in list formation. That’s very specific to our school that is known for its “relax” and “trust the kid’s feelings and their heart” attitude. I truly dislike that and found that lack of clear communication actually way stressed out the process because I actually ended up not trusting time at all and not being relaxed.

When the next kid goes through this we will be much more direct asking CCO hard questions about who else applying VIP multi hooked and using ED more wisely and actuallly not trusting Big 3 CCO platitudes.

They won't answer these questions - we asked even less intrusive questions based on prior history (how many of the acceptances at schools X, Y, or Z - if ANY at all - in our child's stats range were non-legacy, non-athlete)

+1

They are not going to tell a kid not to apply to their top choice ED, even is 30 other kids are applying to the same school. I wish they would at least say "there are more than 20 classmates considering the same choice, some of them have one or more hooks. If this is your top choice, then great, but if you have a 1b that you like almost as much, you may want to pivot to that"

Basically this is what DC's CCO said to them. At first didn't dissuade them from a lottery app, but then, within a couple weeks of due date, said something along lines of "Just want to confirm that you will be okay if you end up deferred or rejected. Some kids want to take the risk while others reconsider." DC was a legacy at another lottery risk, but was resisting. In the end, DC opted for the legacy hook and was luckily successful.

There were 20 kids applying for the first school and only 2 got in ED1.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like lots of disenchanted GDS senior parents (like me) lurking here.

Lots of good stuff about this school academically but the CCO is highly variable, but more so is entirely devoid of facts and data, and runs the process like mindful meditation seminar sophomore and junior year and then 0 to 100 senior fall with no straight answers to yes or no questions on whether i should apply here or there.

My favorite was the junior year parents meeting where they started with 5 minutes on whether college is right for your kid. I mean WTF guys - we are at a college prep school.

For the next kid, I will be much more in command of the process, bringing data, and calling out their lack of numerical approach

I also think the 10 school cap has to be raised to 12 or 15. It mostly protects middle of the pack kids but the number hasnt changed in 10 years+. Meanwhile apps are up +20% per year every year since that time.

The limit set at 10 helps the registrar and the CCOs but not the kids.

At the very least, they can make state flagships unlimited.