Better protocols needed to account for classified documents handled by political officials et Al …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A VP taking a TOP SECRET document home = Crime.

Leaving it unsecured for years = Crime.

Returning it after an untold number of people may have had access to it = Irrelevant.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Try again.

I see. You're claiming someone framed Biden.

Any evidence of that?

No, I’m not, you loon. It’s pretty well documented that staffers pack these boxes during transitions. And inadvertent error by a staffer =/= a conscious decision by Biden to remove classified documents. How is it that this can be explained to you 23 times and you still cannot comprehend it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A VP taking a TOP SECRET document home = Crime.

Leaving it unsecured for years = Crime.

Returning it after an untold number of people may have had access to it = Irrelevant.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Try again.

I see. You're claiming someone framed Biden.

Any evidence of that?

No, I’m not, you loon. It’s pretty well documented that staffers pack these boxes during transitions. And inadvertent error by a staffer =/= a conscious decision by Biden to remove classified documents. How is it that this can be explained to you 23 times and you still cannot comprehend it?

Ah yes, the famous "dog eat my homework" excuse.

Cute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- the handling procedures need to be reviewed with politicians on a regular basis going forward. People are losing confidence that documents are handled properly, and these things inflame one side or the other. The politicians seem so casual in handling these docs.

Please show where the Biden archive was causal in handling these documents before you go bOtH-sIdInG this.

Doesn't matter if these documents were under lock and key if they were not at the proper storage facility. That is casual. Accidents happen. Get the darn documents from every politician who no longer has a right to keeping them. It's great that people were aware enough to say they found classified materials that need to be put away. They should've been put away years ago. Since they were not on several occasions in the recent past, the process needs to be improved. I guess you don't care some future politician walks away -- purposely or not -- with SCI documents. I'm not calling for criminal charges -- I'm calling for standard process improvement.

Not sure what “process improvement” needs to happen when any idiot who possesses a security clearance knows that classified documents are not to be removed from classified settings (SCIFs) unless they are being transported using appropriate protocols. However these documents got out (in Trump’s case or now in Biden’s) is extreme recklessness and should be prosecuted. You don’t just suddenly look down at your home desk and realize you’ve got some classified docs there that were “accidentally” removed. There are already very clear procedures in place for removing those documents and if you screw up, you are liable. For the common man, there is no allowance for mishaps, forgetting to return documents, transporting documents through means other than zippered and locked bags….if you screw it up, you are liable regardless of intent. There is no “whoops” in the mishandling of classified documents.

Do I think Biden purposely withheld those documents and threw them in a box in his garage? Probably not. But this points to extreme sloppiness in the handling of classified materials on the part of his office and staff, and that’s no small thing.

For all the people bending over backwards to say that storing classified material in a garage is better than Mar a Lago, just stop. None of it is okay. There’s so “well this situation is different…”. I despise Trump, always have, always will…but Saying that the Biden camp has been absolutely forthcoming with three or four different locations of materials found supposedly three months or so after Biden ripped Trump for being so careless and irresponsible (and rightfully so) doesn’t make Biden’s story any better.

I agree with most of this PP. I think both events can be acknowledged as different yet concerning. What I would ask is at what point do you go from thinking this is extreme sloppiness by certain individuals to why are the SOPs for this not working and what can we change or improve so that people who are not trying to move or withold classified documents inappropriately are better able to do so? You have to get there at some point; are we not there yet?

I am the PP you are responding to and I get your point. I think where I’m coming from is that these procedures work for the standard guy who screws up—they don’t just walk away, they are held accountable because there are so many protocols in place already that for someone to walk away with classified material, it’s almost a safe assumption that it was deliberate. You don’t accidentally take that piece of paper that’s marked up with the word “classified” or “secret” and accidentally slip it into your notebook. Therefore repercussions are put in place. You don’t accidentally send classified material via email to an unclassified network or computer, because those two “worlds” don’t talk, hence all the fingers that were pointed at Hillary. Whether she or her staffer knowingly copied data and the posted it on an unclassified server somehow, or recited classified info on an unclassified computer and sent it that way, it’s all prohibited. It wasn’t a “whoops”, and we assume this to be true because there are protocols in place to prevent this from happening.

So, sure, are there other things we can do to prevent this from happening? Absolutely. But until we start buttoning up access to classified data and holding people AT ALL LEVELS accountable for its storage, transfer and content, adding more protocols is useless. To have very senior officials (the most senior!) sit back and act like, “well that guy did it too!” is bullshit. And before anyone accuses me of thinking anything Trump did was okay, I do not. I despise Trump. But these ridiculous exercises of making this, too, political are making my head hurt. Possession of a security clearance requires routine training and makes it abundantly clear how this information should be handled and what happens when it’s mishandled. This is simply wrong and someone’s head needs to roll in all/any of these circumstances, regardless of party. If someone thinks a locked garage behind a Corvette is a better landing place than Mar A Lago, or vice versa, then they are missing the real issue here.

PP you quoted. Fair enough - I think it doesn’t have to be either/or. We can hold people accountable as appropriate while also updating/improving the system as appropriate. One would ideally like it to be difficult for these security breaches to happen rather than commonplace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- the handling procedures need to be reviewed with politicians on a regular basis going forward. People are losing confidence that documents are handled properly, and these things inflame one side or the other. The politicians seem so casual in handling these docs.

Please show where the Biden archive was causal in handling these documents before you go bOtH-sIdInG this.

Doesn't matter if these documents were under lock and key if they were not at the proper storage facility. That is casual. Accidents happen. Get the darn documents from every politician who no longer has a right to keeping them. It's great that people were aware enough to say they found classified materials that need to be put away. They should've been put away years ago. Since they were not on several occasions in the recent past, the process needs to be improved. I guess you don't care some future politician walks away -- purposely or not -- with SCI documents. I'm not calling for criminal charges -- I'm calling for standard process improvement.

Not sure what “process improvement” needs to happen when any idiot who possesses a security clearance knows that classified documents are not to be removed from classified settings (SCIFs) unless they are being transported using appropriate protocols. However these documents got out (in Trump’s case or now in Biden’s) is extreme recklessness and should be prosecuted. You don’t just suddenly look down at your home desk and realize you’ve got some classified docs there that were “accidentally” removed. There are already very clear procedures in place for removing those documents and if you screw up, you are liable. For the common man, there is no allowance for mishaps, forgetting to return documents, transporting documents through means other than zippered and locked bags….if you screw it up, you are liable regardless of intent. There is no “whoops” in the mishandling of classified documents.

Do I think Biden purposely withheld those documents and threw them in a box in his garage? Probably not. But this points to extreme sloppiness in the handling of classified materials on the part of his office and staff, and that’s no small thing.

For all the people bending over backwards to say that storing classified material in a garage is better than Mar a Lago, just stop. None of it is okay. There’s so “well this situation is different…”. I despise Trump, always have, always will…but Saying that the Biden camp has been absolutely forthcoming with three or four different locations of materials found supposedly three months or so after Biden ripped Trump for being so careless and irresponsible (and rightfully so) doesn’t make Biden’s story any better.

I agree with most of this PP. I think both events can be acknowledged as different yet concerning. What I would ask is at what point do you go from thinking this is extreme sloppiness by certain individuals to why are the SOPs for this not working and what can we change or improve so that people who are not trying to move or withold classified documents inappropriately are better able to do so? You have to get there at some point; are we not there yet?

I am the PP you are responding to and I get your point. I think where I’m coming from is that these procedures work for the standard guy who screws up—they don’t just walk away, they are held accountable because there are so many protocols in place already that for someone to walk away with classified material, it’s almost a safe assumption that it was deliberate. You don’t accidentally take that piece of paper that’s marked up with the word “classified” or “secret” and accidentally slip it into your notebook. Therefore repercussions are put in place. You don’t accidentally send classified material via email to an unclassified network or computer, because those two “worlds” don’t talk, hence all the fingers that were pointed at Hillary. Whether she or her staffer knowingly copied data and the posted it on an unclassified server somehow, or recited classified info on an unclassified computer and sent it that way, it’s all prohibited. It wasn’t a “whoops”, and we assume this to be true because there are protocols in place to prevent this from happening.

So, sure, are there other things we can do to prevent this from happening? Absolutely. But until we start buttoning up access to classified data and holding people AT ALL LEVELS accountable for its storage, transfer and content, adding more protocols is useless. To have very senior officials (the most senior!) sit back and act like, “well that guy did it too!” is bullshit. And before anyone accuses me of thinking anything Trump did was okay, I do not. I despise Trump. But these ridiculous exercises of making this, too, political are making my head hurt. Possession of a security clearance requires routine training and makes it abundantly clear how this information should be handled and what happens when it’s mishandled. This is simply wrong and someone’s head needs to roll in all/any of these circumstances, regardless of party. If someone thinks a locked garage behind a Corvette is a better landing place than Mar A Lago, or vice versa, then they are missing the real issue here.

PP you quoted. Fair enough - I think it doesn’t have to be either/or. We can hold people accountable as appropriate while also updating/improving the system as appropriate. One would ideally like it to be difficult for these security breaches to happen rather than commonplace.

The "funny" thing here is how Biden attacked Trump as being oh so irresponsible....and see what just came out.

Either Biden has literally zero idea of what's going on with classified materials under his care, or he thought he could supress all media coverage at will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A VP taking a TOP SECRET document home = Crime.

Leaving it unsecured for years = Crime.

Returning it after an untold number of people may have had access to it = Irrelevant.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Try again.

I see. You're claiming someone framed Biden.

Any evidence of that?

No, I’m not, you loon. It’s pretty well documented that staffers pack these boxes during transitions. And inadvertent error by a staffer =/= a conscious decision by Biden to remove classified documents. How is it that this can be explained to you 23 times and you still cannot comprehend it?

Ah yes, the famous "dog eat my homework" excuse.

Cute.

Intent isn't an excuse. But it does matter in terms of the degree of the crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A VP taking a TOP SECRET document home = Crime.

Leaving it unsecured for years = Crime.

Returning it after an untold number of people may have had access to it = Irrelevant.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Try again.

I see. You're claiming someone framed Biden.

Any evidence of that?

No, I’m not, you loon. It’s pretty well documented that staffers pack these boxes during transitions. And inadvertent error by a staffer =/= a conscious decision by Biden to remove classified documents. How is it that this can be explained to you 23 times and you still cannot comprehend it?

Ah yes, the famous "dog eat my homework" excuse.

Cute.

In other words, you can’t dispute the substantive point so you’re trying to deflect instead.

Cute.

[Anonymous]

Ken Dilanian's name is on an article. He is a Democrat favorite for leaking stories. Which means they wanted this story out there. The question is why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ken Dilanian's name is on an article. He is a Democrat favorite for leaking stories. Which means they wanted this story out there. The question is why?

Which article?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ken Dilanian's name is on an article. He is a Democrat favorite for leaking stories. Which means they wanted this story out there. The question is why?

Biden is a lame duck and still two years to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A VP taking a TOP SECRET document home = Crime.

Leaving it unsecured for years = Crime.

Returning it after an untold number of people may have had access to it = Irrelevant.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Try again.

I see. You're claiming someone framed Biden.

Any evidence of that?

No, I’m not, you loon. It’s pretty well documented that staffers pack these boxes during transitions. And inadvertent error by a staffer =/= a conscious decision by Biden to remove classified documents. How is it that this can be explained to you 23 times and you still cannot comprehend it?

Ah yes, the famous "dog eat my homework" excuse.

Cute.

Intent isn't an excuse. But it does matter in terms of the degree of the crime.

+1 Intent and knowing are specifically stated in the law. Neither of those has been established. Nor has the actor.

[Anonymous]

I would not be shocked if we eventually discover the documents were planted - and a top suspect would be Biden's own Secret Service detail. They are untrustworthy and many are Trump loyalists. They deleted text messages on J6, against direct orders to retain them. They knew of threats against Pelosi but did not warn anyone until after the Capitol had already been breached. There are so very many red flags, none of which have been addressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not be shocked if we eventually discover the documents were planted - and a top suspect would be Biden's own Secret Service detail. They are untrustworthy and many are Trump loyalists. They deleted text messages on J6, against direct orders to retain them. They knew of threats against Pelosi but did not warn anyone until after the Capitol had already been breached. There are so very many red flags, none of which have been addressed.

LOL. A conspiracy theorist, we see.

Face it. Joe takes classified documents. Seriously, he does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A VP taking a TOP SECRET document home = Crime.

Leaving it unsecured for years = Crime.

Returning it after an untold number of people may have had access to it = Irrelevant.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Try again.

I see. You're claiming someone framed Biden.

Any evidence of that?

No, I’m not, you loon. It’s pretty well documented that staffers pack these boxes during transitions. And inadvertent error by a staffer =/= a conscious decision by Biden to remove classified documents. How is it that this can be explained to you 23 times and you still cannot comprehend it?

Wait, we can use the a staffer did it as a get out of jail free card? Better not tell Trump this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A VP taking a TOP SECRET document home = Crime.

Leaving it unsecured for years = Crime.

Returning it after an untold number of people may have had access to it = Irrelevant.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Try again.

I see. You're claiming someone framed Biden.

Any evidence of that?

No, I’m not, you loon. It’s pretty well documented that staffers pack these boxes during transitions. And inadvertent error by a staffer =/= a conscious decision by Biden to remove classified documents. How is it that this can be explained to you 23 times and you still cannot comprehend it?

Wait, we can use the a staffer did it as a get out of jail free card? Better not tell Trump this.

That staffer was quite busy!!

Three locations so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A VP taking a TOP SECRET document home = Crime.

Leaving it unsecured for years = Crime.

Returning it after an untold number of people may have had access to it = Irrelevant.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Try again.

I see. You're claiming someone framed Biden.

Any evidence of that?

No, I’m not, you loon. It’s pretty well documented that staffers pack these boxes during transitions. And inadvertent error by a staffer =/= a conscious decision by Biden to remove classified documents. How is it that this can be explained to you 23 times and you still cannot comprehend it?

Wait, we can use the a staffer did it as a get out of jail free card? Better not tell Trump this.

That staffer was quite busy!!

Three locations so far.

If it was an staffer s/he will be identified, fired and prosecuted.