SAHMs that never return to workforce?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.

I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.

I don’t understand why you want things to change? Why DON’T women want to be nurturers and care for their children themselves anymore? Why is that considered beneath them?

Woah I definitely don't consider it beneath me. What I don't like is that SAHMs dropping out of the workforce to care for children perpetuates a cultural dynamic where women, working or not, are the primary caregivers. Many of the problems we have now, like the gender pay gap and general lack of paternity leave, exist in large part because society assumes that if a parent is going to pull back in their career to do kid stuff, it's going to be the mom, even with little things like asking for more time off or choosing jobs with more flexible hours. We need to think of childcare as a parent issue and not a mom issue, and each individual woman who pulls back to care for kids is making it just a bit harder for people to think of men as equally responsible for childcare. However, if a man dropped out of the workforce to become a SAHD, that would work the opposite direction. He would be sending the message that nurturing is men's work.

The personal is political, as they say. That's why I don't call my decision to SAH a "feminist" choice. I did what was best for me and I don't regret it and I like my life, but that particular decision didn't push feminism forward. (Although I'm not sure my attorney job did either, lets be honest)

If your spouse is not an equal partner at home, you have a partner issue. Believe it or not some of us choose to drop out of the workforce. There is nothing that great about working and when you leave that job or are dead, you will not be missed and there is someone else to replace you. I am much happier being home than working. I'm thankful you aren't my partner because I never considered it a choice because of my parents and my husband gave me the choice and would have supported me either way. He's very much an equal partner and very involved. He would have gladly been the one to stay home too but he had more earning potentioal.

You are making this about you, your relationship and projecting it on other. Nothing wrong with being a caregiver.

I’m actually a SAHM, and i said that it is the best thing for me. All the stuff I’m saying about women being presumed to be the primary caregiver and the quantifiable issues that creates are based on research that has been done about it, not my own experience. I can both say I made a valid and defensible choice to become a stay at home mom and that it does have a negative impact on society as a whole.

There is no negative impact on society for a mother to stay home. Ludicrous. I would dare to say any “study” saying such is most likely biased. Women are normally the ones to stay home because women give birth to babies. There is a natural and biological attachment to their babies that men don’t have. That’s not to say men can’t be great and caring dads. But it isn’t the same and let’s stop pretending it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.

I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.

I don’t understand why you want things to change? Why DON’T women want to be nurturers and care for their children themselves anymore? Why is that considered beneath them?

Woah I definitely don't consider it beneath me. What I don't like is that SAHMs dropping out of the workforce to care for children perpetuates a cultural dynamic where women, working or not, are the primary caregivers. Many of the problems we have now, like the gender pay gap and general lack of paternity leave, exist in large part because society assumes that if a parent is going to pull back in their career to do kid stuff, it's going to be the mom, even with little things like asking for more time off or choosing jobs with more flexible hours. We need to think of childcare as a parent issue and not a mom issue, and each individual woman who pulls back to care for kids is making it just a bit harder for people to think of men as equally responsible for childcare. However, if a man dropped out of the workforce to become a SAHD, that would work the opposite direction. He would be sending the message that nurturing is men's work.

The personal is political, as they say. That's why I don't call my decision to SAH a "feminist" choice. I did what was best for me and I don't regret it and I like my life, but that particular decision didn't push feminism forward. (Although I'm not sure my attorney job did either, lets be honest)

The problem is that you believe the only way for things to change is if women stay in the workforce while continuing to work the second and third shift at home.

That’s sort of like saying to BIPOC, “the only way to change things is work really really hard to get yourselves out of poverty, obey the police, and maybe one day you’ll be in a position to make some sort of change in the way you’re treated”. But the answer to oppression isn’t for the oppressed to take on even more burden.

There needs to be cultural and societal change, as well as change among those who benefit from the oppression. Men need to step it up - a LOT. There needs to be pushes for legislation to support working moms. What moms CAN do is hold their husbands accountable, raise their girls to expect more from men, raise their boys to be feminists, and work towards making change that benefits all women, even if it doesn’t benefit them directly (like voting for candidates that support parental leave even if they’re a SAHM).

I’m the SAHM PP and I’m not saying that’s the only way, or even the best way. I’m just saying that it does have an impact, even if it’s a small one, and that impact is a valid issue on a macro level.

As far as how to shift things, I don’t know what the answer is, but I think better labor policies would be a good start. It would also be amazing if more dads would become stay at home parents, but the amount of prejudice among women against SAHSs is wild so there is a lot of work to be done even with that.

But yes, youre right, this is a structural problem and although each personal decision has an impact, personal decisions aren’t the solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.

I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.

I don’t understand why you want things to change? Why DON’T women want to be nurturers and care for their children themselves anymore? Why is that considered beneath them?

Woah I definitely don't consider it beneath me. What I don't like is that SAHMs dropping out of the workforce to care for children perpetuates a cultural dynamic where women, working or not, are the primary caregivers. Many of the problems we have now, like the gender pay gap and general lack of paternity leave, exist in large part because society assumes that if a parent is going to pull back in their career to do kid stuff, it's going to be the mom, even with little things like asking for more time off or choosing jobs with more flexible hours. We need to think of childcare as a parent issue and not a mom issue, and each individual woman who pulls back to care for kids is making it just a bit harder for people to think of men as equally responsible for childcare. However, if a man dropped out of the workforce to become a SAHD, that would work the opposite direction. He would be sending the message that nurturing is men's work.

The personal is political, as they say. That's why I don't call my decision to SAH a "feminist" choice. I did what was best for me and I don't regret it and I like my life, but that particular decision didn't push feminism forward. (Although I'm not sure my attorney job did either, lets be honest)

If your spouse is not an equal partner at home, you have a partner issue. Believe it or not some of us choose to drop out of the workforce. There is nothing that great about working and when you leave that job or are dead, you will not be missed and there is someone else to replace you. I am much happier being home than working. I'm thankful you aren't my partner because I never considered it a choice because of my parents and my husband gave me the choice and would have supported me either way. He's very much an equal partner and very involved. He would have gladly been the one to stay home too but he had more earning potentioal.

You are making this about you, your relationship and projecting it on other. Nothing wrong with being a caregiver.

I’m actually a SAHM, and i said that it is the best thing for me. All the stuff I’m saying about women being presumed to be the primary caregiver and the quantifiable issues that creates are based on research that has been done about it, not my own experience. I can both say I made a valid and defensible choice to become a stay at home mom and that it does have a negative impact on society as a whole.

There is no negative impact on society for a mother to stay home. Ludicrous. I would dare to say any “study” saying such is most likely biased. Women are normally the ones to stay home because women give birth to babies. There is a natural and biological attachment to their babies that men don’t have. That’s not to say men can’t be great and caring dads. But it isn’t the same and let’s stop pretending it is.

Oh goodness. I was about to say I missed a bunch of words on that last sentence and you’re right, there isn’t a broad negative impact, but you lost me at all that absurd gender essentialism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.

I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.

I don’t understand why you want things to change? Why DON’T women want to be nurturers and care for their children themselves anymore? Why is that considered beneath them?

Woah I definitely don't consider it beneath me. What I don't like is that SAHMs dropping out of the workforce to care for children perpetuates a cultural dynamic where women, working or not, are the primary caregivers. Many of the problems we have now, like the gender pay gap and general lack of paternity leave, exist in large part because society assumes that if a parent is going to pull back in their career to do kid stuff, it's going to be the mom, even with little things like asking for more time off or choosing jobs with more flexible hours. We need to think of childcare as a parent issue and not a mom issue, and each individual woman who pulls back to care for kids is making it just a bit harder for people to think of men as equally responsible for childcare. However, if a man dropped out of the workforce to become a SAHD, that would work the opposite direction. He would be sending the message that nurturing is men's work.

The personal is political, as they say. That's why I don't call my decision to SAH a "feminist" choice. I did what was best for me and I don't regret it and I like my life, but that particular decision didn't push feminism forward. (Although I'm not sure my attorney job did either, lets be honest)

If your spouse is not an equal partner at home, you have a partner issue. Believe it or not some of us choose to drop out of the workforce. There is nothing that great about working and when you leave that job or are dead, you will not be missed and there is someone else to replace you. I am much happier being home than working. I'm thankful you aren't my partner because I never considered it a choice because of my parents and my husband gave me the choice and would have supported me either way. He's very much an equal partner and very involved. He would have gladly been the one to stay home too but he had more earning potentioal.

You are making this about you, your relationship and projecting it on other. Nothing wrong with being a caregiver.

I’m actually a SAHM, and i said that it is the best thing for me. All the stuff I’m saying about women being presumed to be the primary caregiver and the quantifiable issues that creates are based on research that has been done about it, not my own experience. I can both say I made a valid and defensible choice to become a stay at home mom and that it does have a negative impact on society as a whole.

There is no negative impact on society for a mother to stay home. Ludicrous. I would dare to say any “study” saying such is most likely biased. Women are normally the ones to stay home because women give birth to babies. There is a natural and biological attachment to their babies that men don’t have. That’s not to say men can’t be great and caring dads. But it isn’t the same and let’s stop pretending it is.

Oh goodness. I was about to say I missed a bunch of words on that last sentence and you’re right, there isn’t a broad negative impact, but you lost me at all that absurd gender essentialism.

“Gender essentialism”? You mean reality?

[Anonymous]

Re: stay at home dads: I actually grew up with a stay at home dad. There is also one 2 doors down from me. The thing i’ve noticed is, mom is always mom. We never saw my dad as our primary parent - we probably felt about him the way kids feel about their Nannies. We wanted mom instead! I can see it in my neighbors too. When a dad comes home from work in a SAHM household, let’s be honest, it takes some work to get the kids to detach from mom and go to dad. When the mom at my neighbor’s house comes home, those kids are climbing all over mom like she’s an oasis and they haven’t had a drink all day.

Plus, let’s not pretend dads want to stay home with babies and young kids the way moms do. Men can go back to work a week after their kid is born and be emotionally fine. It would tear a mom apart to do that. Very few men care about returning to work when their baby is 3 months old. So many moms feel a deep need to stay with their babies at that age even if they need to go back to work for money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re: stay at home dads: I actually grew up with a stay at home dad. There is also one 2 doors down from me. The thing i’ve noticed is, mom is always mom. We never saw my dad as our primary parent - we probably felt about him the way kids feel about their Nannies. We wanted mom instead! I can see it in my neighbors too. When a dad comes home from work in a SAHM household, let’s be honest, it takes some work to get the kids to detach from mom and go to dad. When the mom at my neighbor’s house comes home, those kids are climbing all over mom like she’s an oasis and they haven’t had a drink all day.

Plus, let’s not pretend dads want to stay home with babies and young kids the way moms do. Men can go back to work a week after their kid is born and be emotionally fine. It would tear a mom apart to do that. Very few men care about returning to work when their baby is 3 months old. So many moms feel a deep need to stay with their babies at that age even if they need to go back to work for money.

Yes! This right here is the truth. You can call it “gender essentialism” if you want but it’s also called the truth.

[Anonymous]

Every family should figure out what’s good for them, no need for keeping up with the Jones’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re: stay at home dads: I actually grew up with a stay at home dad. There is also one 2 doors down from me. The thing i’ve noticed is, mom is always mom. We never saw my dad as our primary parent - we probably felt about him the way kids feel about their Nannies. We wanted mom instead! I can see it in my neighbors too. When a dad comes home from work in a SAHM household, let’s be honest, it takes some work to get the kids to detach from mom and go to dad. When the mom at my neighbor’s house comes home, those kids are climbing all over mom like she’s an oasis and they haven’t had a drink all day.

Plus, let’s not pretend dads want to stay home with babies and young kids the way moms do. Men can go back to work a week after their kid is born and be emotionally fine. It would tear a mom apart to do that. Very few men care about returning to work when their baby is 3 months old. So many moms feel a deep need to stay with their babies at that age even if they need to go back to work for money.

Agreed, and it’s bizarre to expect families leave young babies and toddlers with caregivers that they don’t even know well just so everyone can go back to work. (If they want to go back to work that’s fine). Don’t blame SAHM for causing inequality, blame society for making it difficult for women to get enough maternity leave, or to enter the workforce after taking time to care for children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re: stay at home dads: I actually grew up with a stay at home dad. There is also one 2 doors down from me. The thing i’ve noticed is, mom is always mom. We never saw my dad as our primary parent - we probably felt about him the way kids feel about their Nannies. We wanted mom instead! I can see it in my neighbors too. When a dad comes home from work in a SAHM household, let’s be honest, it takes some work to get the kids to detach from mom and go to dad. When the mom at my neighbor’s house comes home, those kids are climbing all over mom like she’s an oasis and they haven’t had a drink all day.

Plus, let’s not pretend dads want to stay home with babies and young kids the way moms do. Men can go back to work a week after their kid is born and be emotionally fine. It would tear a mom apart to do that. Very few men care about returning to work when their baby is 3 months old. So many moms feel a deep need to stay with their babies at that age even if they need to go back to work for money.

You are very different than our kids. Ours run to Dad. (of course I encourage it to get a break).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: stay at home dads: I actually grew up with a stay at home dad. There is also one 2 doors down from me. The thing i’ve noticed is, mom is always mom. We never saw my dad as our primary parent - we probably felt about him the way kids feel about their Nannies. We wanted mom instead! I can see it in my neighbors too. When a dad comes home from work in a SAHM household, let’s be honest, it takes some work to get the kids to detach from mom and go to dad. When the mom at my neighbor’s house comes home, those kids are climbing all over mom like she’s an oasis and they haven’t had a drink all day.

Plus, let’s not pretend dads want to stay home with babies and young kids the way moms do. Men can go back to work a week after their kid is born and be emotionally fine. It would tear a mom apart to do that. Very few men care about returning to work when their baby is 3 months old. So many moms feel a deep need to stay with their babies at that age even if they need to go back to work for money.

Agreed, and it’s bizarre to expect families leave young babies and toddlers with caregivers that they don’t even know well just so everyone can go back to work. (If they want to go back to work that’s fine). Don’t blame SAHM for causing inequality, blame society for making it difficult for women to get enough maternity leave, or to enter the workforce after taking time to care for children.

You can take as much time as you want but its only paid if you save your leave or you quit and get another job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re: stay at home dads: I actually grew up with a stay at home dad. There is also one 2 doors down from me. The thing i’ve noticed is, mom is always mom. We never saw my dad as our primary parent - we probably felt about him the way kids feel about their Nannies. We wanted mom instead! I can see it in my neighbors too. When a dad comes home from work in a SAHM household, let’s be honest, it takes some work to get the kids to detach from mom and go to dad. When the mom at my neighbor’s house comes home, those kids are climbing all over mom like she’s an oasis and they haven’t had a drink all day.

Plus, let’s not pretend dads want to stay home with babies and young kids the way moms do. Men can go back to work a week after their kid is born and be emotionally fine. It would tear a mom apart to do that. Very few men care about returning to work when their baby is 3 months old. So many moms feel a deep need to stay with their babies at that age even if they need to go back to work for money.

You wanted mom because you had Dad all day. It would have been the reverse if Dad was working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: stay at home dads: I actually grew up with a stay at home dad. There is also one 2 doors down from me. The thing i’ve noticed is, mom is always mom. We never saw my dad as our primary parent - we probably felt about him the way kids feel about their Nannies. We wanted mom instead! I can see it in my neighbors too. When a dad comes home from work in a SAHM household, let’s be honest, it takes some work to get the kids to detach from mom and go to dad. When the mom at my neighbor’s house comes home, those kids are climbing all over mom like she’s an oasis and they haven’t had a drink all day.

Plus, let’s not pretend dads want to stay home with babies and young kids the way moms do. Men can go back to work a week after their kid is born and be emotionally fine. It would tear a mom apart to do that. Very few men care about returning to work when their baby is 3 months old. So many moms feel a deep need to stay with their babies at that age even if they need to go back to work for money.

You wanted mom because you had Dad all day. It would have been the reverse if Dad was working.

It in MY family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: stay at home dads: I actually grew up with a stay at home dad. There is also one 2 doors down from me. The thing i’ve noticed is, mom is always mom. We never saw my dad as our primary parent - we probably felt about him the way kids feel about their Nannies. We wanted mom instead! I can see it in my neighbors too. When a dad comes home from work in a SAHM household, let’s be honest, it takes some work to get the kids to detach from mom and go to dad. When the mom at my neighbor’s house comes home, those kids are climbing all over mom like she’s an oasis and they haven’t had a drink all day.

Plus, let’s not pretend dads want to stay home with babies and young kids the way moms do. Men can go back to work a week after their kid is born and be emotionally fine. It would tear a mom apart to do that. Very few men care about returning to work when their baby is 3 months old. So many moms feel a deep need to stay with their babies at that age even if they need to go back to work for money.

You wanted mom because you had Dad all day. It would have been the reverse if Dad was working.

It in MY family.

*NOT in my family.

[Anonymous]

Here is some science:

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/publications/observer/obsonline/how-mother-child-separation-causes-neurobiological-vulnerability-into-adulthood.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m conflicted about SAHMs. I feel like the more women who drop out of the workforce means that things will never change. I want shorter working hours and longer school hours. School boards that take working parents into account. And husbands who cook, clean and care for children equally. But Dh and I both make 120k so it wasn’t an option for me to stay home.

I’m a SAHM and I’m conflicted about this too. But I’m not sure that more women working has changed things much either. It has definitely helped some but many working women are still “in charge” of most laborious household tasks and childcare.

I don’t understand why you want things to change? Why DON’T women want to be nurturers and care for their children themselves anymore? Why is that considered beneath them?

Woah I definitely don't consider it beneath me. What I don't like is that SAHMs dropping out of the workforce to care for children perpetuates a cultural dynamic where women, working or not, are the primary caregivers. Many of the problems we have now, like the gender pay gap and general lack of paternity leave, exist in large part because society assumes that if a parent is going to pull back in their career to do kid stuff, it's going to be the mom, even with little things like asking for more time off or choosing jobs with more flexible hours. We need to think of childcare as a parent issue and not a mom issue, and each individual woman who pulls back to care for kids is making it just a bit harder for people to think of men as equally responsible for childcare. However, if a man dropped out of the workforce to become a SAHD, that would work the opposite direction. He would be sending the message that nurturing is men's work.

The personal is political, as they say. That's why I don't call my decision to SAH a "feminist" choice. I did what was best for me and I don't regret it and I like my life, but that particular decision didn't push feminism forward. (Although I'm not sure my attorney job did either, lets be honest)

If your spouse is not an equal partner at home, you have a partner issue. Believe it or not some of us choose to drop out of the workforce. There is nothing that great about working and when you leave that job or are dead, you will not be missed and there is someone else to replace you. I am much happier being home than working. I'm thankful you aren't my partner because I never considered it a choice because of my parents and my husband gave me the choice and would have supported me either way. He's very much an equal partner and very involved. He would have gladly been the one to stay home too but he had more earning potentioal.

You are making this about you, your relationship and projecting it on other. Nothing wrong with being a caregiver.

I’m actually a SAHM, and i said that it is the best thing for me. All the stuff I’m saying about women being presumed to be the primary caregiver and the quantifiable issues that creates are based on research that has been done about it, not my own experience. I can both say I made a valid and defensible choice to become a stay at home mom and that it does have a negative impact on society as a whole.

There is no negative impact on society for a mother to stay home. Ludicrous. I would dare to say any “study” saying such is most likely biased. Women are normally the ones to stay home because women give birth to babies. There is a natural and biological attachment to their babies that men don’t have. That’s not to say men can’t be great and caring dads. But it isn’t the same and let’s stop pretending it is.

Stop the non-sense. Men can have equal and natural attachments to their kids. The same as mom's who don't give birth to their kids. Of course it is the same thing.