ICE Shooting in Minneapolis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

Well, you just made him look really bad since she smiled and said that she wasn't angry at them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I will have to agree to disagree with the posters who think she was intentionally trying to run him over. Nothing in the video suggests to me that was in such a state of mind. To me, it seems like she just wants to get out of there and be on her way, and then for a split second she panics and applies the gas. (Which is not ideal but kind of understandable in that situation).

We can all see this with our own eyes. We see her joking with him and then he shoots her. Every single video has shown the same thing.

Right? Obviously we don’t know what these actors were thinking, but based on the conversation and the video, I’d say:

- She didn’t think the situation had escalated to a “physical threat” point. She seemed relaxed and probably expected to leave and then get a citation in the mail.

- He is not mentally stable. The woman’s insults rattled him, her “disobedience” angered him and the car moving forward put him in a rage that exploded into physical violence.

Just my guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

Well, you just made him look really bad since she smiled and said that she wasn't angry at them.

That’s certainly another relevant piece of the analysis.

I don’t have a dog in this fight. I may be the only person on the entire internet who hasn’t made up their mind about this.

IMO, based on what we know so far, both parties made mistakes. Based on this limited info, I think criminal liability will be a close call.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

Well, you just made him look really bad since she smiled and said that she wasn't angry at them.

That’s certainly another relevant piece of the analysis.

I don’t have a dog in this fight. I may be the only person on the entire internet who hasn’t made up their mind about this.

IMO, based on what we know so far, both parties made mistakes. Based on this limited info, I think criminal liability will be a close call.

Which is why it should go to jury. It's extremely dangerous to allow the federal government to simply wave this away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

Well, you just made him look really bad since she smiled and said that she wasn't angry at them.

That’s certainly another relevant piece of the analysis.

I don’t have a dog in this fight. I may be the only person on the entire internet who hasn’t made up their mind about this.

IMO, based on what we know so far, both parties made mistakes. Based on this limited info, I think criminal liability will be a close call.

Which is why it should go to jury. It's extremely dangerous to allow the federal government to simply wave this away.

PP here. Probably right.

Certainly needs to be independently investigated and an independent prosecutorial decision made—not a decision for either the MAGA goons or MSP (given the mayor’s intemperate comments).

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think this would be going better for the admin if ICE wasn’t regularly doing terrible stuff. Nationally they aren’t respected anymore.[/quote]

Half the country supports what they are doing. [/quote]
Wrong.
[twitter]https://x.com/axios/status/2009698258596102493?s=46&t=kf1qYlCXQnKgUhJWEIu2vg[/twitter]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this would be going better for the admin if ICE wasn’t regularly doing terrible stuff. Nationally they aren’t respected anymore.

Half the country supports what they are doing.

Wrong.

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the next step toward Fascism folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

If you were the subject of abuse by another person it is subjective if you become apprehensive if a different person is in front of you. Only if it is the same person would you be objectively reasonable. So, for example, Ross was involved in a prior vehicular incident. That doesn't make his additional fear this time objectively reasonable though it may be subjectively reasonable.

[Anonymous]

If you compare other videos, her wife doesn’t get in the car. She is left behind as the car drives off. Wife has the confrontation with Ross where she taunts him, as he is walking, then tries to open door but it’s locked. She must see the agent on other side trying to open door because she yells to Good, “Drive,
Drive!” just as agent is walking in front of the vehicle, likely to go to the drivers side where the other agents are. It seems she scared her into driving at a catastrophic moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

All of which is 100% irrelevant to the question of whether there was a justifiable use of lethal force.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you compare other videos, her wife doesn’t get in the car. She is left behind as the car drives off. Wife has the confrontation with Ross where she taunts him, as he is walking, then tries to open door but it’s locked. She must see the agent on other side trying to open door because she yells to Good, “Drive,
Drive!” just as agent is walking in front of the vehicle, likely to go to the drivers side where the other agents are. It seems she scared her into driving at a catastrophic moment.

That’s my take too. Very sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

All of which is 100% irrelevant to the question of whether there was a justifiable use of lethal force.

I'd rather be alive than try to prove a point with someone who's armed