ICE Shooting in Minneapolis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Jonathan Ross defenses have gotten moronic. Did messaging get lost in the shift change?

It’s actually been fascinating to watch the adjustments in messaging as the videos roll out.

Probably once the Ross panicked message flames out it’s going to move into a more general no one understands ICE and they are just trying to enforce immigration laws and everyone is mean instead of grateful. Finally morphing into vague accusations that people who don’t support Ross are unpatriotic.

But you are correct, the messaging is unpersuasive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the next step toward Fascism folks.

I think that this will be the first step in reversing it. They are going to be forced to defend him in court and they will fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

JFC how thick can you be? Of course it doesn't give permission to kill someone. The officer made a mistake, one that he should receive some kind of reprimendation for. The point that some of us posters are making is that it was an understandable mistake given that,six months earlier he was hospitalized for being dragged by another driver, dealing with someone who was intentionally blocking him in (extremely hostile and agressive behavior) and being antagonized and belittled by the wife (who seemed to be part of the incident) and likely the victim herself. When the victim left she did so recklessly, coming within inches of hitting him (I don't think she was intentionally trying to hit him, but I think she was taking off in a huff)

All of these circumstances together led him to make a split second decision to shoot. The wrong decision, a decision that will at a minimum cost him his job, but given the situation not hard to see how such a mistake happened. These people are in a job where emotions are high, safety is always a concern, and if they make a mistake it could lead to tragedy. It's certainly not a job I could do, because honestly I don't know if I would have been able to keep from backhanding that b**** wife for talking to me like that. But I know that I am not cut out for such a job and sympathize greatly with officers who have to deal with a$$holes who deliberately try to heckle and insult them.

If this is all true while it may be a mitigating circumstance, it is clear he was not fit to be placed back on duty. His superiors, then, should be found culpable for the loss of this woman's life.

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

You are a vile nothing. She was light in tone and complying and because Jonathan E Ross is a motherfn loser, he killed her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

Failure to obey commands?
This is not a police state. ICE doesn’t have unfettered authority to issue commands. ICE’s task is to enforce immigration laws. That’s it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

All of which is 100% irrelevant to the question of whether there was a justifiable use of lethal force.

I'd rather be alive than try to prove a point with someone who's armed

Me, too. And I'd rather be on a street without any terrifying trigger-happy ICE agents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the next step toward Fascism folks.

I think that this will be the first step in reversing it. They are going to be forced to defend him in court and they will fail.

I am not so optimistic. If they let the "Feds" handle it...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

And here's the other thing. ICE is not acting like a legitimate law enforcement agency. They are acting like gestapo. Period. And American people, the ones who studied history, are unwilling to just let this gestapo agency haul people off the way the Nazis did. Americans are laying down their lives, putting themselves in danger for others. ICE entered school property in Minneapolis and tear gassed students and teachers. Students and teachers!!! Grown men did this.

My husband and I, who are as anti gun as possible, talked last night about getting a gun. This doesn't end peacefully. Either congress is going to step up and get rid of this entire administration or Americans are going to end up at war with each other. I don't see any other way out of this. I don't want this to be the case, but since it appears we don't really have a functioning congress anymore, I think this ends in civil war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

JFC how thick can you be? Of course it doesn't give permission to kill someone. The officer made a mistake, one that he should receive some kind of reprimendation for. The point that some of us posters are making is that it was an understandable mistake given that,six months earlier he was hospitalized for being dragged by another driver, dealing with someone who was intentionally blocking him in (extremely hostile and agressive behavior) and being antagonized and belittled by the wife (who seemed to be part of the incident) and likely the victim herself. When the victim left she did so recklessly, coming within inches of hitting him (I don't think she was intentionally trying to hit him, but I think she was taking off in a huff)

All of these circumstances together led him to make a split second decision to shoot. The wrong decision, a decision that will at a minimum cost him his job, but given the situation not hard to see how such a mistake happened. These people are in a job where emotions are high, safety is always a concern, and if they make a mistake it could lead to tragedy. It's certainly not a job I could do, because honestly I don't know if I would have been able to keep from backhanding that b**** wife for talking to me like that. But I know that I am not cut out for such a job and sympathize greatly with officers who have to deal with a$$holes who deliberately try to heckle and insult them.

NP. No, PP. It is not a "mistake." It is murder. If he can't keep from reacting like that, then he never should have been allowed to do this job. Not only was he allowed, he was probably encouraged. Kristi Noem should be indicted for murder, too.

And you are right that you should absolutely not be allowed to be a LEO. I sincerely hope you do not own a gun.

PP is a misogynist and any woman near him is in mortal danger. We have to accept that the men who hang out here in anonymity would kill women if given the chance.

I'm starting to get a real sense of this. Terrifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

JFC how thick can you be? Of course it doesn't give permission to kill someone. The officer made a mistake, one that he should receive some kind of reprimendation for. The point that some of us posters are making is that it was an understandable mistake given that,six months earlier he was hospitalized for being dragged by another driver, dealing with someone who was intentionally blocking him in (extremely hostile and agressive behavior) and being antagonized and belittled by the wife (who seemed to be part of the incident) and likely the victim herself. When the victim left she did so recklessly, coming within inches of hitting him (I don't think she was intentionally trying to hit him, but I think she was taking off in a huff)

All of these circumstances together led him to make a split second decision to shoot. The wrong decision, a decision that will at a minimum cost him his job, but given the situation not hard to see how such a mistake happened. These people are in a job where emotions are high, safety is always a concern, and if they make a mistake it could lead to tragedy. It's certainly not a job I could do, because honestly I don't know if I would have been able to keep from backhanding that b**** wife for talking to me like that. But I know that I am not cut out for such a job and sympathize greatly with officers who have to deal with a$$holes who deliberately try to heckle and insult them.

NP. No, PP. It is not a "mistake." It is murder. If he can't keep from reacting like that, then he never should have been allowed to do this job. Not only was he allowed, he was probably encouraged. Kristi Noem should be indicted for murder, too.

And you are right that you should absolutely not be allowed to be a LEO. I sincerely hope you do not own a gun.

PP is a misogynist and any woman near him is in mortal danger. We have to accept that the men who hang out here in anonymity would kill women if given the chance.

You are probably right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

All of which is 100% irrelevant to the question of whether there was a justifiable use of lethal force.

I'd rather be alive than try to prove a point with someone who's armed

Me, too. And I'd rather be on a street without any terrifying trigger-happy ICE agents.

Sure. But I'm not going to intentionally antagonize and disobey one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

JFC how thick can you be? Of course it doesn't give permission to kill someone. The officer made a mistake, one that he should receive some kind of reprimendation for. The point that some of us posters are making is that it was an understandable mistake given that,six months earlier he was hospitalized for being dragged by another driver, dealing with someone who was intentionally blocking him in (extremely hostile and agressive behavior) and being antagonized and belittled by the wife (who seemed to be part of the incident) and likely the victim herself. When the victim left she did so recklessly, coming within inches of hitting him (I don't think she was intentionally trying to hit him, but I think she was taking off in a huff)

All of these circumstances together led him to make a split second decision to shoot. The wrong decision, a decision that will at a minimum cost him his job, but given the situation not hard to see how such a mistake happened. These people are in a job where emotions are high, safety is always a concern, and if they make a mistake it could lead to tragedy. It's certainly not a job I could do, because honestly I don't know if I would have been able to keep from backhanding that b**** wife for talking to me like that. But I know that I am not cut out for such a job and sympathize greatly with officers who have to deal with a$$holes who deliberately try to heckle and insult them.

See I read his prior issue with a car just 6 months ago, coupled with this second car issue, as a sign that he needs a desk job. (Actually he needs to be in jail, but at a minimum he's not fit to work anywhere near a motor vehicle).

It's strange that they're making this excuse because it just extends culpability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

All of which is 100% irrelevant to the question of whether there was a justifiable use of lethal force.

I'd rather be alive than try to prove a point with someone who's armed

Me, too. And I'd rather be on a street without any terrifying trigger-happy ICE agents.

Sure. But I'm not going to intentionally antagonize and disobey one.

Well, good. But if you do, let me just say it out loud: you do not deserve to be shot. Maybe glared at. Maybe given a citation. But not shot. And if someone shoots you for anyagonizing and disobeying, it will be murder and I will come out on DCUM to say it, regardless of who you voted for.

[Anonymous]

And Minneapolis schools are now offering remote learning for the next month to any kid who wants it. This is what will happen everywhere that ICE is. And, my guess is, the teachers that were attacked at the MPLS high school yesterday? Their union is likely to back the STAFF who don't feel safe coming to work anymore and will let THEM stay home and teach virtually. I hope everyone is totally fine with schools shutting down again. Don't want that to happen? Stop allowing ICE to operate within a block of any school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

So is the moral here that we can kill people who approach us with a snide tone? Trump is snide all the time. Vance is too. In fact, this entire admin is snide. So, it seems logical that snideness is more than acceptable in the US.

JFC how thick can you be? Of course it doesn't give permission to kill someone. The officer made a mistake, one that he should receive some kind of reprimendation for. The point that some of us posters are making is that it was an understandable mistake given that,six months earlier he was hospitalized for being dragged by another driver, dealing with someone who was intentionally blocking him in (extremely hostile and agressive behavior) and being antagonized and belittled by the wife (who seemed to be part of the incident) and likely the victim herself. When the victim left she did so recklessly, coming within inches of hitting him (I don't think she was intentionally trying to hit him, but I think she was taking off in a huff)

All of these circumstances together led him to make a split second decision to shoot. The wrong decision, a decision that will at a minimum cost him his job, but given the situation not hard to see how such a mistake happened. These people are in a job where emotions are high, safety is always a concern, and if they make a mistake it could lead to tragedy. It's certainly not a job I could do, because honestly I don't know if I would have been able to keep from backhanding that b**** wife for talking to me like that. But I know that I am not cut out for such a job and sympathize greatly with officers who have to deal with a$$holes who deliberately try to heckle and insult them.

Shooting three times is not just a "mistake".

Especially the two shots after the initial shot. This required repositioning and aiming again. Enough time for a trained LEO to take a pause and realize the first shot was unnecessary. Resuming the shooting is to realize that permanently silencing the victim/witness is better than potentially having them survive to testify against you. Whatever you think of the Uvalde cop, this moron should be on trial way more than him.