Option H is permanent and the old Wootton HS campus will be closed for good?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

Guess what, Wootton- You’re not the Yankees. Get over yourself.

In both MCPS and Maryland, Wootton is the Yankees. Why do you hate success so much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

The MLB analogy has a fatal flaw in that MCPS is not a private for profit enterprise. I absolutely agree that Wootton as we know it will no longer exist. But I don't think that is a reason why MCPS should not do the thing that is the most fiscally responsible and in the long-term best interest of the entire district. Is Option H that? Not sure. But the fact that it would fundamentally alter Wootton is not a reason not to do it.

A better analogy might be a public housing enterprise that operates on a small budget and too much demand spread out unevenly across the area. They may have one historic stand-out complex that has been desirable due to its location and property management. If that building falls into disrepair and has a higher than average vacancy rate for whatever reason, it absolutely makes sense to close that facility and offer housing in a newer modern facility and save money.

Wootton didn’t fall into disrepair. MCPS neglected it by pulling it from the CIP three times. One might think this was by design. Indeed, MCPS pulled it in November and announced Option H in December.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

Guess what, Wootton- You’re not the Yankees. Get over yourself.

In both MCPS and Maryland, Wootton is the Yankees. Why do you hate success so much?

I’m guessing you don’t work there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

The MLB analogy has a fatal flaw in that MCPS is not a private for profit enterprise. I absolutely agree that Wootton as we know it will no longer exist. But I don't think that is a reason why MCPS should not do the thing that is the most fiscally responsible and in the long-term best interest of the entire district. Is Option H that? Not sure. But the fact that it would fundamentally alter Wootton is not a reason not to do it.

A better analogy might be a public housing enterprise that operates on a small budget and too much demand spread out unevenly across the area. They may have one historic stand-out complex that has been desirable due to its location and property management. If that building falls into disrepair and has a higher than average vacancy rate for whatever reason, it absolutely makes sense to close that facility and offer housing in a newer modern facility and save money.

Wootton didn’t fall into disrepair. MCPS neglected it by pulling it from the CIP three times. One might think this was by design. Indeed, MCPS pulled it in November and announced Option H in December.

OK. If you take issue with the phrase "fall into disrepair" for some reason, be can go with "needs repair"? Not sure why that is relevant to probing the analogy, but OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

The MLB analogy has a fatal flaw in that MCPS is not a private for profit enterprise. I absolutely agree that Wootton as we know it will no longer exist. But I don't think that is a reason why MCPS should not do the thing that is the most fiscally responsible and in the long-term best interest of the entire district. Is Option H that? Not sure. But the fact that it would fundamentally alter Wootton is not a reason not to do it.

A better analogy might be a public housing enterprise that operates on a small budget and too much demand spread out unevenly across the area. They may have one historic stand-out complex that has been desirable due to its location and property management. If that building falls into disrepair and has a higher than average vacancy rate for whatever reason, it absolutely makes sense to close that facility and offer housing in a newer modern facility and save money.

Wootton didn’t fall into disrepair. MCPS neglected it by pulling it from the CIP three times. One might think this was by design. Indeed, MCPS pulled it in November and announced Option H in December.

OK. If you take issue with the phrase "fall into disrepair" for some reason, be can go with "needs repair"? Not sure why that is relevant to probing the analogy, but OK.

I take issue with a lot more of your analogy, but this was just one of the mis characterizations you made to support it. MCPS made far more mistakes (or intentional moves) to reach the outcome that would result from Option H. Those are laid out extensively throughout this thread, so I’m not going to repeat them here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

Guess what, Wootton- You’re not the Yankees. Get over yourself.

In both MCPS and Maryland, Wootton is the Yankees. Why do you hate success so much?

I’m guessing you don’t work there.

So remediate the building. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

The MLB analogy has a fatal flaw in that MCPS is not a private for profit enterprise. I absolutely agree that Wootton as we know it will no longer exist. But I don't think that is a reason why MCPS should not do the thing that is the most fiscally responsible and in the long-term best interest of the entire district. Is Option H that? Not sure. But the fact that it would fundamentally alter Wootton is not a reason not to do it.

A better analogy might be a public housing enterprise that operates on a small budget and too much demand spread out unevenly across the area. They may have one historic stand-out complex that has been desirable due to its location and property management. If that building falls into disrepair and has a higher than average vacancy rate for whatever reason, it absolutely makes sense to close that facility and offer housing in a newer modern facility and save money.

Wootton didn’t fall into disrepair. MCPS neglected it by pulling it from the CIP three times. One might think this was by design. Indeed, MCPS pulled it in November and announced Option H in December.

OK. If you take issue with the phrase "fall into disrepair" for some reason, be can go with "needs repair"? Not sure why that is relevant to probing the analogy, but OK.

I take issue with a lot more of your analogy, but this was just one of the mis characterizations you made to support it. MCPS made far more mistakes (or intentional moves) to reach the outcome that would result from Option H. Those are laid out extensively throughout this thread, so I’m not going to repeat them here.

PP here. I won't defend MCPS. I agree that many mistakes were made. But I just don't see the reasons why this situation exists as all that relevant to what MCPS does to address it moving forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

The MLB analogy has a fatal flaw in that MCPS is not a private for profit enterprise. I absolutely agree that Wootton as we know it will no longer exist. But I don't think that is a reason why MCPS should not do the thing that is the most fiscally responsible and in the long-term best interest of the entire district. Is Option H that? Not sure. But the fact that it would fundamentally alter Wootton is not a reason not to do it.

A better analogy might be a public housing enterprise that operates on a small budget and too much demand spread out unevenly across the area. They may have one historic stand-out complex that has been desirable due to its location and property management. If that building falls into disrepair and has a higher than average vacancy rate for whatever reason, it absolutely makes sense to close that facility and offer housing in a newer modern facility and save money.

Wootton didn’t fall into disrepair. MCPS neglected it by pulling it from the CIP three times. One might think this was by design. Indeed, MCPS pulled it in November and announced Option H in December.

OK. If you take issue with the phrase "fall into disrepair" for some reason, be can go with "needs repair"? Not sure why that is relevant to probing the analogy, but OK.

I take issue with a lot more of your analogy, but this was just one of the mis characterizations you made to support it. MCPS made far more mistakes (or intentional moves) to reach the outcome that would result from Option H. Those are laid out extensively throughout this thread, so I’m not going to repeat them here.

PP here. I won't defend MCPS. I agree that many mistakes were made. But I just don't see the reasons why this situation exists as all that relevant to what MCPS does to address it moving forward.

How about do no further harm? Remediate Wootton and then take the time to study the long term impacts of MCPS decisions before they’re made. Use excess capacity at Crown as a holding school. If moving Wootton makes sense 5-10 years from now, you can move it then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

The MLB analogy has a fatal flaw in that MCPS is not a private for profit enterprise. I absolutely agree that Wootton as we know it will no longer exist. But I don't think that is a reason why MCPS should not do the thing that is the most fiscally responsible and in the long-term best interest of the entire district. Is Option H that? Not sure. But the fact that it would fundamentally alter Wootton is not a reason not to do it.

A better analogy might be a public housing enterprise that operates on a small budget and too much demand spread out unevenly across the area. They may have one historic stand-out complex that has been desirable due to its location and property management. If that building falls into disrepair and has a higher than average vacancy rate for whatever reason, it absolutely makes sense to close that facility and offer housing in a newer modern facility and save money.

Wootton didn’t fall into disrepair. MCPS neglected it by pulling it from the CIP three times. One might think this was by design. Indeed, MCPS pulled it in November and announced Option H in December.

OK. If you take issue with the phrase "fall into disrepair" for some reason, be can go with "needs repair"? Not sure why that is relevant to probing the analogy, but OK.

I take issue with a lot more of your analogy, but this was just one of the mis characterizations you made to support it. MCPS made far more mistakes (or intentional moves) to reach the outcome that would result from Option H. Those are laid out extensively throughout this thread, so I’m not going to repeat them here.

PP here. I won't defend MCPS. I agree that many mistakes were made. But I just don't see the reasons why this situation exists as all that relevant to what MCPS does to address it moving forward.

How about do no further harm? Remediate Wootton and then take the time to study the long term impacts of MCPS decisions before they’re made. Use excess capacity at Crown as a holding school. If moving Wootton makes sense 5-10 years from now, you can move it then.

This will allow MCPS to collect more accurate enrollment projections, particularly after the midterms and presidential election. If either flips, you will see an increase in enrollment.

[Anonymous]

There are new housing developments close to Crown. Maybe Gaithersburg could take Crown back after 5 years with a boundary change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

The MLB analogy has a fatal flaw in that MCPS is not a private for profit enterprise. I absolutely agree that Wootton as we know it will no longer exist. But I don't think that is a reason why MCPS should not do the thing that is the most fiscally responsible and in the long-term best interest of the entire district. Is Option H that? Not sure. But the fact that it would fundamentally alter Wootton is not a reason not to do it.

A better analogy might be a public housing enterprise that operates on a small budget and too much demand spread out unevenly across the area. They may have one historic stand-out complex that has been desirable due to its location and property management. If that building falls into disrepair and has a higher than average vacancy rate for whatever reason, it absolutely makes sense to close that facility and offer housing in a newer modern facility and save money.

Wootton didn’t fall into disrepair. MCPS neglected it by pulling it from the CIP three times. One might think this was by design. Indeed, MCPS pulled it in November and announced Option H in December.

OK. If you take issue with the phrase "fall into disrepair" for some reason, be can go with "needs repair"? Not sure why that is relevant to probing the analogy, but OK.

I take issue with a lot more of your analogy, but this was just one of the mis characterizations you made to support it. MCPS made far more mistakes (or intentional moves) to reach the outcome that would result from Option H. Those are laid out extensively throughout this thread, so I’m not going to repeat them here.

PP here. I won't defend MCPS. I agree that many mistakes were made. But I just don't see the reasons why this situation exists as all that relevant to what MCPS does to address it moving forward.

How about do no further harm? Remediate Wootton and then take the time to study the long term impacts of MCPS decisions before they’re made. Use excess capacity at Crown as a holding school. If moving Wootton makes sense 5-10 years from now, you can move it then.

This will allow MCPS to collect more accurate enrollment projections, particularly after the midterms and presidential election. If either flips, you will see an increase in enrollment.

Entollment predictions are never accurate. They're guesses based on limited available information at the time. There are always things that can't be anticipated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

The MLB analogy has a fatal flaw in that MCPS is not a private for profit enterprise. I absolutely agree that Wootton as we know it will no longer exist. But I don't think that is a reason why MCPS should not do the thing that is the most fiscally responsible and in the long-term best interest of the entire district. Is Option H that? Not sure. But the fact that it would fundamentally alter Wootton is not a reason not to do it.

A better analogy might be a public housing enterprise that operates on a small budget and too much demand spread out unevenly across the area. They may have one historic stand-out complex that has been desirable due to its location and property management. If that building falls into disrepair and has a higher than average vacancy rate for whatever reason, it absolutely makes sense to close that facility and offer housing in a newer modern facility and save money.

Wootton didn’t fall into disrepair. MCPS neglected it by pulling it from the CIP three times. One might think this was by design. Indeed, MCPS pulled it in November and announced Option H in December.

OK. If you take issue with the phrase "fall into disrepair" for some reason, be can go with "needs repair"? Not sure why that is relevant to probing the analogy, but OK.

I take issue with a lot more of your analogy, but this was just one of the mis characterizations you made to support it. MCPS made far more mistakes (or intentional moves) to reach the outcome that would result from Option H. Those are laid out extensively throughout this thread, so I’m not going to repeat them here.

PP here. I won't defend MCPS. I agree that many mistakes were made. But I just don't see the reasons why this situation exists as all that relevant to what MCPS does to address it moving forward.

How about do no further harm? Remediate Wootton and then take the time to study the long term impacts of MCPS decisions before they’re made. Use excess capacity at Crown as a holding school. If moving Wootton makes sense 5-10 years from now, you can move it then.

This will allow MCPS to collect more accurate enrollment projections, particularly after the midterms and presidential election. If either flips, you will see an increase in enrollment.

Entollment predictions are never accurate. They're guesses based on limited available information at the time. There are always things that can't be anticipated.

So let’s make things worse by closing a top performing school based on today’s enrollment predictions? Sounds just like MCPS to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are new housing developments close to Crown. Maybe Gaithersburg could take Crown back after 5 years with a boundary change.

Why don’t we wait and see BEFORE moving a top performing school and the boundaries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If Wootton were just moving buildings, the lawyer PP above would have a point that this isn’t a closure"

Agreed and to continue the baseball analogy, we are moving the Yankees to Pennsylvania, we are combining them with the Phillies, and we are naming the new team the Pennsylvania Crowns. However there is absolutely no evidence that we are closing the Yankees

This is nuts. H is basically the equivalent of moving the Yankees down the street to a new stadium, adding 5 or 6 new players to the 25-man roster over the off-season, keeping the coaching and other managment staff the same, keeping the name the same (it will still be called Wootton, guys, sheesh), etc... this has literally happened, and happens with sports teams all the time, and no one is like "They got rid of the Yankees! They're not really the Yankees anymore because they have a new stadium and some of the players changed!". That would sound idiotic and frankly all the Wootton chicken littles don't sound much better.

Reminder one more time, folks: dealing with boundary changes and school location changes is normal and not a big deal. Yeah, they don't usually happen in the same year, but are you really gonna tell us you'd be fine with option H if Wootton moved in 2027 but the boundaries didn't change until 2029? Nope, because you think you're entitled to your school staying exactly the same AND entitled to the rest of the county paying for expensive repairs to your building. Sorry guys.

Did the Yankees ask for a new stadium built for another new franchise, several miles (driving) away in another borough that is already a highly congested area? Did the fans ask for it to be there?

Are the Yankees being forced to take players from a much lower performing team or teams (or can they choose the players)?

Is the new franchise that was supposed to play there (and their fans) happy that you gave away their new stadium to the Yankees?

There are several professional sports teams that moved facilities, took on a bunch of new players, and have never been the same.

But sure, go ahead and move a championship team (school) because MCPS mismanaged taxpayer money in building Crown and see what happens. A storied franchise will be gone (even if you use the name), less top athletes will want to play for it (a new stadium doesn’t = winning), and fans (families) will abandon the franchise (go private or sell their homes).

The MLB analogy has a fatal flaw in that MCPS is not a private for profit enterprise. I absolutely agree that Wootton as we know it will no longer exist. But I don't think that is a reason why MCPS should not do the thing that is the most fiscally responsible and in the long-term best interest of the entire district. Is Option H that? Not sure. But the fact that it would fundamentally alter Wootton is not a reason not to do it.

A better analogy might be a public housing enterprise that operates on a small budget and too much demand spread out unevenly across the area. They may have one historic stand-out complex that has been desirable due to its location and property management. If that building falls into disrepair and has a higher than average vacancy rate for whatever reason, it absolutely makes sense to close that facility and offer housing in a newer modern facility and save money.

Wootton didn’t fall into disrepair. MCPS neglected it by pulling it from the CIP three times. One might think this was by design. Indeed, MCPS pulled it in November and announced Option H in December.

OK. If you take issue with the phrase "fall into disrepair" for some reason, be can go with "needs repair"? Not sure why that is relevant to probing the analogy, but OK.

I take issue with a lot more of your analogy, but this was just one of the mis characterizations you made to support it. MCPS made far more mistakes (or intentional moves) to reach the outcome that would result from Option H. Those are laid out extensively throughout this thread, so I’m not going to repeat them here.

PP here. I won't defend MCPS. I agree that many mistakes were made. But I just don't see the reasons why this situation exists as all that relevant to what MCPS does to address it moving forward.

How about do no further harm? Remediate Wootton and then take the time to study the long term impacts of MCPS decisions before they’re made. Use excess capacity at Crown as a holding school. If moving Wootton makes sense 5-10 years from now, you can move it then.

This will allow MCPS to collect more accurate enrollment projections, particularly after the midterms and presidential election. If either flips, you will see an increase in enrollment.

Entollment predictions are never accurate. They're guesses based on limited available information at the time. There are always things that can't be anticipated.

So let’s make things worse by closing a top performing school based on today’s enrollment predictions? Sounds just like MCPS to do that.

Or, let's make things better by moving a school from a decrepit building to a brand new one.

[Anonymous]

MCPS’s own boundary study page still states that the new options:
• “include the recommendation to utilize Crown High School as a temporary holding school for upcoming projects.”