Parents getting upset about any group invitation

[Anonymous]

This is what as a woman I avoid hanging out with other women and don't do text threads with them. The bigger the group, the more it's always a backstabby mess full of chaotic and rampant immaturity and lots of weird excuses that never work. I'll be over here, enjoying my peace with my husband.

[Anonymous]

These stories of Halloween being co-opted by parents and turned into an adult socializing and drinking holiday are so depressing. When I was growing up in the late 90s and early 00s, we went trick or treating with our friends. Our parents had absolutely no say in who was or was not invited, and it was very much a “the more, the merrier” type of event. One family’s house might serve as the meeting point for a group of kids, and other parents might gather there to take some quick pictures before we set off on our own, but it was very much a kid-focused (rather than adult-focused) holiday.

My kids are too young to trick or treat with friends, but I fear I may live in one of these “Halloween block party” neighborhoods. Someone has put up very unofficial-looking signs stating that all of the (public) streets in our neighborhood are closed to non-residents on Halloween evening. (I seriously doubt that anyone obtained permission from the city to do that.) I also remember seeing multiple adults walking around with Jell-O shots on Halloween last year. I really hope we don’t encounter issues like others have described in this thread when my kids get a little older…

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

These replies speak to our experience. My kid's friends with a group of kids whose moms are close. The moms are nice enough. And they and their kids do things that some could read as pointedly exclusionary. Like letting their kids call mine from every get together they all do. Or having conversations about ideas I've brought up individually with one of them and then deciding how to move forward together. It's like they're living by committee. And that influences how their kids sometimes interact with mine.

For us, we go when we're invited and we don't sweat it when we're not, especially since my kid says they don't care. Kiddo has a broad range of friends, so they are able to dismiss it. I know that's not true for all kids.

OP isn't responsible for another person's reaction. And the group she's in probably does do things that are strangely committee-like to people like me, exclusionary to more sensitive types.

This, and it could also be that the mom's kid is more sensitive than yours and more upset/bothered by some of the social bragging and competitiveness that the friend group's kids may engage in. She may be more annoyed by the exclusion of her kid simply because it is causing more problems for her at home, if her kid is complaining a lot about not being part of that group, not wanting to go to school, etc.

I think OP is perceiving this as being entirely about this woman wanting to break into their friend group and I think it's highly unlikely that's the case. The behavior really indicates this is creating issues with her kid and she resents the moms for creating this problem. The thing with the moms attending the gym class makes this obvious -- I guarantee this mom is not mad she didn't get to hang out at gym class with these other women. But instead, her kid came home and said "hey all the moms came to gym class today but you weren't there! why didn't you come, I felt left out," and this mom was like wtf I didn't even know this was something people were doing today.

The proper response to the last example is, “Sometimes moms go to the gym together. Sometimes they don’t. Just like sometimes you play tag and sometimes you don’t.”

The kids are six.

The moms didn't "go to the gym together." They did a special visit to their child's gym class together. The child who sees this, notes his mom is not there, and feels embarrassed or hurt is actually correctly perceiving the social situation -- he is recognizing that there are a group of parents who know each other and are friends, and can plan special events for their kids like this which bring more attention to their kids and may improve their kids' social standing at school, and that his mom is not part of that group and cannot help his social standing at school in the same way.

Like I guarantee the day those moms all showed up to gym class that day, all the kids noticed and talked about it and it conferred a special status on the kids whose moms were there. Maybe those kids got to do something special in class with their moms that the other kids didn't get to do, maybe the gym teacher gave the moms special jobs or made a big deal about it. The kid can tell this group of families has a kind of special status at the school by virtue of being a cohesive group, and he can tell that it helps those kids socially and that he doesn't have the same advantages. Telling him "oh this is like when you decide not to play tag" is gaslighting him. He understands the situation better than you do.

This was an open event advertised in a newsletter. No one received an engraved invitation. This mom could easily have reached out to OP or another mother asking if they planned on going. Sometimes you have to make shit happen.

I read OP as saying there is a standing invitation for parents to come to gym class, not that this was a specific event on a certain day.

Also it's bizarre to argue that the mom should be checking in with OP or this group to see if they are planning on doing a coordinated visit. Can you imagine what this would actually look like IRL? A mom who is not a part of this friend group texting to ask what their plans are so she could invite herself to join? They would talk so much $hit about her behind her back if she did that, even more than they currently do.

Right? My second grader is currently insisting that he is invited to trick or treat with a group. These moms are all friends. Am I supposed to text them like "hey ladies, what are we doing for Halloween?"
I had these boys over last weekend and the moms just dropped them off. So I'm doing my part hosting. But it doesn't mean im in on all the plans.

Ugh, situations like that are frustrating. I do actually think you have to reach out and say "hey sounds like the boys were talking about trick or treating together -- can we coordinate?" But I understand why it's awkward when they are all friends because it will 100% feel like trying to invade their plans even though the boys were making plans on their own.

The one consolation is that this problem gets better in a few years when the kids can more competently coordinate their own plans and don't need rides everywhere.

I think part of the problem here is making a kid-focused activity (like visiting a gym class or kids trick-or-treating) into an adult social event. It's easier if you keep this separate. If you want to do something with your mom friends, go out for drinks or coffee. If you want to go to your kids gym class, message the class chat and let everyone know you're going. If you just keep this stuff separate, it's waaaaaay less awkward and doesn't create as much weirdness with the kids.

Adults turn Halloween trick or treating in my neighborhood into an adult focused social event. This is not something I remember as a kid. It’s moms and dads all walking in groups with drinks and doing shots in driveways. It’s all pre-trick or treat parties for selected families and honestly, it’s ruined the whole holiday for me.

Yep, it’s a parent block party now so you have to know the parents to get invited. My DD is new at school and wanted to trick or treat with her new friends but we’re not invited to the party. But God forbid we express any disappointment by the exclusions because nobody owes us anything according to some. The kids guest list would look very different from the adult list if they were given a say.

So ask invite her friends to come trick or treating. How is this so hard? We were invited to nothing one year, so we had our own haunted house. Guess what? I didn’t want to invite the aggressive kid, the one who’s mean to my youngest, and I invited a few adult friends.

Do you really think these parents are going to have their kids miss their block party? Think.

This. The parents have set it up just how they want. They get to spend Halloween with their friends on their block, the kids will trick or treat and play with their friends' kids who are also their friends. Easy. The other families will say "oh sorry we can't make it we already have plans, but have fun!" and move on with their lives. But they also won't invite PP's daughter because she doesn't live on their block and isn't one of the group.

You obviously get it. The people giving out weird advice seem to have no clue about how these social groups actually work. Is it because they have no experience with them but feel compelled to give worthless advice? “Just invite them anyway to your house! It will all work out!” What a joke.

You call it weird advice, but my each of my kids have great groups of friends that they've nurtured over the years.

So you don’t know what the neighborhood cliques are like that have the block parties and tell everyone their kids “has plans” are like. We know. The adults run the show, you obviously don’t get it.

NP. Isn’t it normal for block parties to only include those on the block, since they’re the ones putting up funds for it?

Nobody wants to crash the block party, what they want is for kids to be able to trick or treat together, even ones who live in the same neighborhood. But now it's a "block party" and those kids can't have their other friends come along because according to mom "they have plans" now. Since you're not aware of how these things work, often they leave the block party in their golf cart and there "isn't enough room" for other friends. It's all very exclusive and highly curated, kids don't roam in packs together without parents in tow driving them or following behind with their wine tumblers.

Golf cart?! Where the heck is this?

I’m in Fairfax County and there are tons of golf carts in my neighborhood. And yes, the Halloween spectacle is my neighborhood is just as obnoxious as described by other posters. My neighborhood is toted as “laid back, welcoming, and highly sought after”. It’s cliquey and suffocating in reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These stories of Halloween being co-opted by parents and turned into an adult socializing and drinking holiday are so depressing. When I was growing up in the late 90s and early 00s, we went trick or treating with our friends. Our parents had absolutely no say in who was or was not invited , and it was very much a “the more, the merrier” type of event. One family’s house might serve as the meeting point for a group of kids, and other parents might gather there to take some quick pictures before we set off on our own, but it was very much a kid-focused (rather than adult-focused) holiday.

My kids are too young to trick or treat with friends, but I fear I may live in one of these “Halloween block party” neighborhoods. Someone has put up very unofficial-looking signs stating that all of the (public) streets in our neighborhood are closed to non-residents on Halloween evening. (I seriously doubt that anyone obtained permission from the city to do that.) I also remember seeing multiple adults walking around with Jell-O shots on Halloween last year. I really hope we don’t encounter issues like others have described in this thread when my kids get a little older…

This to me is the weirdest part. Your kids are like 9 o r 10 and want to go meet with their school friends and then the parents are like "sorry honey, we've made plans with the Millers and the Smiths so we're only hanging out with their families on Halloween." And the kids just accept this I guess? They're so used to exclusivity it seems normal to them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even nursing homes have trick or treat. Just because someone else is doing something fun doesn’t mean a child can’t be happy doing something different. In fact, it’s healthy.

No, we were not invited to the block party. Yes, there is a block party one block over. Yes, I understand why they don’t invite us: because every child on that block has a friend on a different block. My block is not having a block party, because the parents don’t want to have one.

Ok Pollyanna.

Aren’t half the people on here condemning people for being inconsiderate of their children? So don’t be inconsiderate. Be kind. Go to a nursing home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

I'm sorry - but just no - raising kids and finding your own adult friends is hard enough. Parents need to create their own social strategies and realities. Take the lead, don't lose your mind because your kid was not included in an activity with people that don't know you or your kid There are way more people in your situation than the small group that got there (made a friend group) first. Kids and parents that are true friends find each other. Sometimes it takes time - but there are plenty of parents and friends to go around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

I'm sorry - but just no - raising kids and finding your own adult friends is hard enough. Parents need to create their own social strategies and realities. Take the lead, don't lose your mind because your kid was not included in an activity with people that don't know you or your kid There are way more people in your situation than the small group that got there (made a friend group) first. Kids and parents that are true friends find each other. Sometimes it takes time - but there are plenty of parents and friends to go around.

What are you assuming that is talking about? There is nothing in there about creating a social strategy or new reality. It's a straight forward analysis of the impact of small group dynamics on a larger group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even nursing homes have trick or treat. Just because someone else is doing something fun doesn’t mean a child can’t be happy doing something different. In fact, it’s healthy.

No, we were not invited to the block party. Yes, there is a block party one block over. Yes, I understand why they don’t invite us: because every child on that block has a friend on a different block. My block is not having a block party, because the parents don’t want to have one.

Ok Pollyanna.

Aren’t half the people on here condemning people for being inconsiderate of their children? So don’t be inconsiderate. Be kind. Go to a nursing home.

You first. You tell your kids to forget their friends and go to the retirement home. And just so you know I have done that with the kids and it wasn't actually on Halloween. But do keep spewing unhelpful advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

I'm sorry - but just no - raising kids and finding your own adult friends is hard enough. Parents need to create their own social strategies and realities. Take the lead, don't lose your mind because your kid was not included in an activity with people that don't know you or your kid There are way more people in your situation than the small group that got there (made a friend group) first. Kids and parents that are true friends find each other. Sometimes it takes time - but there are plenty of parents and friends to go around.

What are you assuming that is talking about? There is nothing in there about creating a social strategy or new reality. It's a straight forward analysis of the impact of small group dynamics on a larger group.

Get a grip, if 7 people in a group of 120 want to get together with their children it shouldn’t bother you. Make an effort. 9/10 of these people complaining about being left out of their child left out have likely made a lot of assumptions that they won’t be included in this group even if they wanted to (which they insist they don’t after writing post after post about how awful and detrimental to society this is. Make an effort.

As the OP, my issue is when you make no effort, do not initiate or even respond to previous invitations, then freak out and confront a bunch of people how awful they were to do this- you know, not keeping including you when you can’t be bothered to reply. If you don’t care, then don’t react period. There’s nothing to react to and as others have pointed out if you don’t like this small group, there’s 100+ other families. Stop focusing on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

I'm sorry - but just no - raising kids and finding your own adult friends is hard enough. Parents need to create their own social strategies and realities. Take the lead, don't lose your mind because your kid was not included in an activity with people that don't know you or your kid There are way more people in your situation than the small group that got there (made a friend group) first. Kids and parents that are true friends find each other. Sometimes it takes time - but there are plenty of parents and friends to go around.

What are you assuming that is talking about? There is nothing in there about creating a social strategy or new reality. It's a straight forward analysis of the impact of small group dynamics on a larger group.

Get a grip, if 7 people in a group of 120 want to get together with their children it shouldn’t bother you. Make an effort. 9/10 of these people complaining about being left out of their child left out have likely made a lot of assumptions that they won’t be included in this group even if they wanted to (which they insist they don’t after writing post after post about how awful and detrimental to society this is. Make an effort.

As the OP, my issue is when you make no effort, do not initiate or even respond to previous invitations, then freak out and confront a bunch of people how awful they were to do this- you know, not keeping including you when you can’t be bothered to reply. If you don’t care, then don’t react period. There’s nothing to react to and as others have pointed out if you don’t like this small group, there’s 100+ other families. Stop focusing on them.

You're still perseverating on this confrontation that happened 6 months ago and are telling someone else to get a grip? This woman really rattled you to your core. Hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

I'm sorry - but just no - raising kids and finding your own adult friends is hard enough. Parents need to create their own social strategies and realities. Take the lead, don't lose your mind because your kid was not included in an activity with people that don't know you or your kid There are way more people in your situation than the small group that got there (made a friend group) first. Kids and parents that are true friends find each other. Sometimes it takes time - but there are plenty of parents and friends to go around.

What are you assuming that is talking about? There is nothing in there about creating a social strategy or new reality. It's a straight forward analysis of the impact of small group dynamics on a larger group.

Get a grip, if 7 people in a group of 120 want to get together with their children it shouldn’t bother you. Make an effort. 9/10 of these people complaining about being left out of their child left out have likely made a lot of assumptions that they won’t be included in this group even if they wanted to (which they insist they don’t after writing post after post about how awful and detrimental to society this is. Make an effort.

As the OP, my issue is when you make no effort, do not initiate or even respond to previous invitations, then freak out and confront a bunch of people how awful they were to do this- you know, not keeping including you when you can’t be bothered to reply. If you don’t care, then don’t react period. There’s nothing to react to and as others have pointed out if you don’t like this small group, there’s 100+ other families. Stop focusing on them.

You're still perseverating on this confrontation that happened 6 months ago and are telling someone else to get a grip? This woman really rattled you to your core. Hilarious.

No, it’s an ongoing thing. The one 6 months ago was the biggest incident with about 10 people being confronted including her husband being involved confronting multiple husbands with calls and texts lashing out. This happens at least once a month, with the most recent being in the last 2 weeks where she let multiple people know she was mad and showed up places giving some the silent treatment completely and not responding at all. As I said, she’s not being left out. The host said immediately just let me know if you ever hear of anything, of course you’re included if you want to be. At the same time, she does get invited to many things and doesn’t respond or rsvp (things for the kids and adults). I personally go out of my way to let her know of things whenever a group is involved even though we aren’t really friends and she hasn’t been great to me because when we talked about the incident I promised I would keep her in the loop as much as I can because she asked me to. What’s frustrating is that lack of effort or initiative and then total freak out if someone drops the ball on telling her. It’s exhausting. You don’t need to react to every time you feel sad or left out. We all feel this way at times. It’s not intentional. As I said, I’ve invited her to dozens of things over the years and can’t think of one she’s included me in or made an effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

I'm sorry - but just no - raising kids and finding your own adult friends is hard enough. Parents need to create their own social strategies and realities. Take the lead, don't lose your mind because your kid was not included in an activity with people that don't know you or your kid There are way more people in your situation than the small group that got there (made a friend group) first. Kids and parents that are true friends find each other. Sometimes it takes time - but there are plenty of parents and friends to go around.

What are you assuming that is talking about? There is nothing in there about creating a social strategy or new reality. It's a straight forward analysis of the impact of small group dynamics on a larger group.

Get a grip, if 7 people in a group of 120 want to get together with their children it shouldn’t bother you. Make an effort. 9/10 of these people complaining about being left out of their child left out have likely made a lot of assumptions that they won’t be included in this group even if they wanted to (which they insist they don’t after writing post after post about how awful and detrimental to society this is. Make an effort.

As the OP, my issue is when you make no effort, do not initiate or even respond to previous invitations, then freak out and confront a bunch of people how awful they were to do this- you know, not keeping including you when you can’t be bothered to reply. If you don’t care, then don’t react period. There’s nothing to react to and as others have pointed out if you don’t like this small group, there’s 100+ other families. Stop focusing on them.

This happened six months ago, you wrote a post about it to try and publicly shame the other person, and you're relentless responding to anything that even tangentially describes anything that undercuts your invented narrative or framing. Get a grip indeed. This is hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even nursing homes have trick or treat. Just because someone else is doing something fun doesn’t mean a child can’t be happy doing something different. In fact, it’s healthy.

No, we were not invited to the block party. Yes, there is a block party one block over. Yes, I understand why they don’t invite us: because every child on that block has a friend on a different block. My block is not having a block party, because the parents don’t want to have one.

Ok Pollyanna.

Aren’t half the people on here condemning people for being inconsiderate of their children? So don’t be inconsiderate. Be kind. Go to a nursing home.

You first. You tell your kids to forget their friends and go to the retirement home. And just so you know I have done that with the kids and it wasn't actually on Halloween. But do keep spewing unhelpful advice.

Because telling adults to change their plans is so helpful? If you want people to be self-sacrificing, then you be the change you want to see in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would actually assume this issue is more complex than OP is letting on. Just based on my observations of similar situations at our own school. It doesn't mean it's nefarious or that OP is at fault, I would just guess that there are other factors at play that make the other mom's behavior make a little more sense.

OP saying that she and these other moms have been friends since their kids were babies and that they have their own friendship independent of the kids and the school is probably a major source of the issue. I get why this happens but it pretty much always causes problems. If it's just one or two families who know each other it's not a big thing, but when you get a to a group of moms that's like 5-10, or more, who have this pre-existing friendship, it becomes awkward. Those women will always talk to each other, and will also feel little value in making an effort with other families in the grade because they already have their friends. Their kids will often all be friends and will play together, which creates a similar dynamic among the kids. So then the kids of the other parents start coming home and talking about how there is this group of kids who all play together and dont' include others. Ideally the other kids will just start creating their own groups but the problem is that this requires the other kids not to become fixated on this existing group, whose familiarity with each other will bestow a kind of popular aura on them, and then the other kids will want to break into that group instead of creating their own. This is just a weird phenomenon of group dynamics that happens often whether you want it to or not.

So the existing friend group feels exclusionary even though it really shouldn't be a big deal that some people are already friends. It tilts the balance of power and creates all these little negative interactions for the people outside the group (both kids and adults). A kid will get upset they weren't invited to a birthday party because the group is talking about the party at school and everyone else feels left out. A mom will get the brush off at a PTA meeting when she tries to strike up a conversation with a member of the group, because that person just wants to chat with her existing friends. And these little moments build up and it becomes a thing. It's not exactly anyone's fault, it just happens. And the people in the friend group will roll their eyes and say "whatever, make your own friends, not everyone has to be invited." And this is 100% correct but it also ignores the fact that they are immune to the negative dynamics created by the existence of this groups, by virtue of being on the inside instead of the outside. A little empathy can go a long way there, but people don't always have the energy or motivation to practice it. So it all just compounds.

The good news is that this mostly goes away in middle school. Kids create their own friendships and parents are less involved in schools, so the friend group will just stop being an issue for the kids or the other parents. It's just these few years in K-5 where it can be a problem. I've seen it happen twice, once from the inside of the friend group and once from the outside, and it's annoying to people for a while and then doesn't matter anymore.

Disagree. Only people who strive to be on the inside feel negative about interactions. Most people do not care and will make their own groups alliances, and acquaintances. Very few people would feel so strongly about not being invited to a small gathering that they insert themselves and demand being invited next time. I cannot fathom getting this bent out of shape over hearing about someone else’s plans. OP has done nothing wrong at all and isn’t responsible for the other lady’s feelings, or her kid’s.

Disagree with your disagreement. The key phrase was balance of power. Theoretically the balance of power is distributed within the class but in practice these sorts of groups exert, sometimes unknowingly, extra power because they are in a sense organized.

The broader class dynamics start revolving around their interests and needs, due in part to first mover advantages, which then creates structural barriers to entry that leave the unaffiliated unable to break in.

I'm sorry - but just no - raising kids and finding your own adult friends is hard enough. Parents need to create their own social strategies and realities. Take the lead, don't lose your mind because your kid was not included in an activity with people that don't know you or your kid There are way more people in your situation than the small group that got there (made a friend group) first. Kids and parents that are true friends find each other. Sometimes it takes time - but there are plenty of parents and friends to go around.

What are you assuming that is talking about? There is nothing in there about creating a social strategy or new reality. It's a straight forward analysis of the impact of small group dynamics on a larger group.

Get a grip, if 7 people in a group of 120 want to get together with their children it shouldn’t bother you. Make an effort. 9/10 of these people complaining about being left out of their child left out have likely made a lot of assumptions that they won’t be included in this group even if they wanted to (which they insist they don’t after writing post after post about how awful and detrimental to society this is. Make an effort.

As the OP, my issue is when you make no effort, do not initiate or even respond to previous invitations, then freak out and confront a bunch of people how awful they were to do this- you know, not keeping including you when you can’t be bothered to reply. If you don’t care, then don’t react period. There’s nothing to react to and as others have pointed out if you don’t like this small group, there’s 100+ other families. Stop focusing on them.

This happened six months ago, you wrote a post about it to try and publicly shame the other person, and you're relentless responding to anything that even tangentially describes anything that undercuts your invented narrative or framing. Get a grip indeed. This is hilarious.

Publicity shame? You know this is an anonymous message board. LOL

[Anonymous]

I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.