Harsh comment on being a Sahm

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

She’s a dependent if she cannot support herself and her kids. Unless she is independently wealthy, she wouldn’t ever be able to live independently. A man is not a plan. If the OP has daughters, she shouldn’t be modeling a lifestyle that causes financial dependence on a man.

This is such a lazy, tired argument. You have drank the capitalist kool-aid and don’t recognize your own internalized misogyny and completely screwed up value system.

Go work for money if you want to, but thinking people don’t care about the judgements of women who are stuck with the worldview they were told is correct back in middle school.

+1. I am a WOHM but anyone who can't see that our society would lose so much value without the unpaid labor of SAHPs is an idiot. Who do you think fills many volunteer roles and spends that money you "I hate volunteering" parents donate in lieu of actually helping out for things? Sure WOHPs do too, but it's largely SAHPs. I'm so grateful for all the experiences they enable and good they do in the world.

This is the tween and teen forum. I don't know very many tween and teen parents who spend lots of time volunteering in kids' schools when the kids are that age. Parent volunteers are helpful when the kids are young, but really not beyond 3rd grade or so.

There's a lot more to volunteering than helping out at school.

Such as? Enlighten us.

Dp. Sports. My tweens are both swimmers and if I added up the hours I spent volunteering for that it would probably add up to a part time job in the winter, and a full time job in the summer.

You don't have to give up your career so that your kids can join a swim team. Give me a break! Unless your kid is headed for the Olympics, your measure of self-importance as a SAHM volunteer is delusional.

How on earth did your brain make that leap? Nowhere did I say that you have to give up your career to join a swim team. I didn’t even tell you my employment status. I was simply responding to a poster who was questioning volunteer opportunities outside of school. That’s it. JFC. If you want to see delusional, look in the mirror.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

She’s a dependent if she cannot support herself and her kids. Unless she is independently wealthy, she wouldn’t ever be able to live independently. A man is not a plan. If the OP has daughters, she shouldn’t be modeling a lifestyle that causes financial dependence on a man.

This is such a lazy, tired argument. You have drank the capitalist kool-aid and don’t recognize your own internalized misogyny and completely screwed up value system.

Go work for money if you want to, but thinking people don’t care about the judgements of women who are stuck with the worldview they were told is correct back in middle school.

+1. I am a WOHM but anyone who can't see that our society would lose so much value without the unpaid labor of SAHPs is an idiot. Who do you think fills many volunteer roles and spends that money you "I hate volunteering" parents donate in lieu of actually helping out for things? Sure WOHPs do too, but it's largely SAHPs. I'm so grateful for all the experiences they enable and good they do in the world.

This is the tween and teen forum. I don't know very many tween and teen parents who spend lots of time volunteering in kids' schools when the kids are that age. Parent volunteers are helpful when the kids are young, but really not beyond 3rd grade or so.

There's a lot more to volunteering than helping out at school.

Such as? Enlighten us.

Dp. Sports. My tweens are both swimmers and if I added up the hours I spent volunteering for that it would probably add up to a part time job in the winter, and a full time job in the summer.

You don't have to give up your career so that your kids can join a swim team. Give me a break! Unless your kid is headed for the Olympics, your measure of self-importance as a SAHM volunteer is delusional.

How on earth did your brain make that leap? Nowhere did I say that you have to give up your career to join a swim team. I didn’t even tell you my employment status. I was simply responding to a poster who was questioning volunteer opportunities outside of school. That’s it. JFC. If you want to see delusional, look in the mirror.

+1

That PP is bonkers.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

Because your identity and value as a human being is not, and should not, be tied to paid work. Drill that into your thick head.

She’s a dependent, just like her kids. Not a good look for an educated adult who is perfectly capable of working but would rather play tennis.

If the things she is doing are worth paying someone for, like cooking, cleaning, driving the kids, then she is not a dependent. She is doing unpaid work. Not to mention the amount you would have to pay for all of that would likely exceed what a moderate to moderately high earner would earn.

You are sick person if you would deprive someone who does unpaid work a couple of hours of relaxation time or resources for themself. OP is doing work in the evening hours while many people are chilling in front of the TV.

She’s a dependent if she cannot support herself and her kids. Unless she is independently wealthy, she wouldn’t ever be able to live independently. A man is not a plan. If the OP has daughters, she shouldn’t be modeling a lifestyle that causes financial dependence on a man.

This is such a lazy, tired argument. You have drank the capitalist kool-aid and don’t recognize your own internalized misogyny and completely screwed up value system.

Go work for money if you want to, but thinking people don’t care about the judgements of women who are stuck with the worldview they were told is correct back in middle school.

1) We live in a capitalist society with few safety nets. Very few people in the US have the privilege of dismissing, as you do, the "capitalist kool-aid." Have you ever lived paycheck to paycheck? Have you ever had to decide between paying medical and utility bills? This is the reality for most of America.
2) Women with children are far, fare more likely to live in poverty than men. It is nowhere near misogynistic to educate women about the risks of having a man with a plan. And yes, even DCUM women can be at risk. You only need to browse the Relationships Forum to read about moms who have given up their careers and then blindsided by husbands who ask for divorce.

DP. Yeah, there are few safety nets. But we are not making things better for our children by modeling maximum attention to making money and consumption. Most of Americans could do with less consumption and competition and more presence and love.

Of course there are caveats - SAHP should have their own retirement fund (or DH saves for both) and both parents should have life insurance. Obviously this setup is made possible by one parent having a very high paying job, having affordable housing, or some combination. I recognize that many people are finding that difficult to attain but that’s no reason to $hit on families who manage it, that’s a reason to support more family friendly policies.

The point went over your help with a loud swish. I’m a single parent and I’m definitely not working because I spend too much. I barely make ends meet and I rarely buy anything extra. Life is expensive and if I didn’t work, we would’ve been homeless after our divorce. I believe I’m modeling the ability to take care of myself and not need to be a dependent.

That is the kind of thing someone says when they are insecure about their life choices and trying to feel better about it.

It’s fine to be a single mom. It’s fine to be a working mom.
I am also a single, working mom. It’s ok to be proud of your accomplishments. People making other kinds of life choices does not mean yours is wrong. You do not have to insult people because they may have made different choices or seem to have things easier than you.

Yes, being a SAHM is not really an option for most of us single parents. But you are showing some internalized misogyny by calling SAHMs “dependents” when they are in fact doing a lot of unpaid work. Just because it didn’t work out for you doesn’t mean it can’t work out for anyone else.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am not usually a very strict parent, but if my 13 year old said that to me I would make them submit to a week where I: do not drive them anywhere, including their favorite sports and classes, make them take the school bus, make them make their own meals, stop cleaning the house or doing the dishes, and stop doing laundry. If they have no idea what adulting looks like, we need to show them.

The issue with this (to me) is parents who both work do all these things for their children and their home. Adulting for most people looks like both parents holding down a job and doing all these things.

I think rather than react defensively, view it as an opportunity to have honest conversations about why it's a privilege to have the choice, pros and cons of the choice, why more often women do this than men, what it does to earning power, risks involved, rewards involved, why it was the right choice for you and what it means for your family. Ask them if they could see themselves doing this as parents and why. Listen to what they have to say. Treat them like thinking people and have a conversation with them about it.

+1

Also talk about unpaid labor, caregiving work and its importance to society, what would happen if caregivers stopped their work, the social security system and benefits for paid labor, how health insurance is tied to paid labor.

Lots for teens to think about.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The replies of ...show them by stopping doing the things for them that will show them!!...all that does is teach them this is an unsafe topic that will be met with hostility. They won't bring it up again but their opinion probably won't change. Their friends all have the same things done for them mostly with parents who both work. It doesn't answer their question what do you do all day while they're at school and why don't you have a job. Tell them what you do all day (I do a lot of things for our family that some families outsource could be an answer...I volunteer could be an answer...and guess what an answer could be I go to the gym every day which I really value...it's fine!) Explain why for your family this makes sense and why you don't have a job. I'm sure there are real and good reasons.

I'm the PP whose mom stopped doing stuff for a week so my brother and I saw what she did. It wasn't done with a hostile intent nor did it make us feel like we couldn't bring things up. But after telling us what she did, she wanted to show us too. It's not like we were neglected for a week. But it was eye opening all the little things she did that we never really noticed. I definitely think it could be done maliciously, but my mom managed not to do it that way. Or maybe it's because I'm a hands on type person so the physical proof of things makes a point more than talking.

+1

That's why so much of it is called invisible labor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not usually a very strict parent, but if my 13 year old said that to me I would make them submit to a week where I: do not drive them anywhere, including their favorite sports and classes, make them take the school bus, make them make their own meals, stop cleaning the house or doing the dishes, and stop doing laundry. If they have no idea what adulting looks like, we need to show them.

The thing is that all this gets done if both parents work. It’s not like their friends who have working parents don’t play sports, wear clean clothes or have dinner. Talk to your child about the pros and cons of staying home and why it works for you and DH and it may or may not work for then if they have families.

I'm 16:49 (work part time) and people always say all the same things get done either way as if it's obvious everyone should work FT. For me, that's not the case. I mean obviously they can still eat and get dressed if I worked.40 hours, but I have worked more sometimes and it affects my mood, how my body feels, how tired I am, and more. I don't have as much time to be as involved in school or even homework. We won't have the same conversations, etc.

My kids absolutely wouldn't be able to be in as many activities if I worked more. Some other families will have different constraints where the money is more limiting than the time and energy or different preferences where they don't mind outsourcing certain things.

In the real world there will be some trade-offs from any decision. With real people involved, you can't just say all else is equal. That also goes for the person who is a better parent or more themselves when working more, but they are not me.

There aren’t always trade-offs.

The fact that you are all in nothing about things is probably the problem.

But I don’t think there’s any negative side saying to your children. Some people can handle a lot and some people can’t handle a lot and I’m one of those people who can’t handle a lot and I’m sorry.

Just like there’s some people who make a lot of money and there’s some people who don’t make a lot of money and I’m somebody who doesn’t make a lot of money. I’m sorry that’s just who I am. That’s who you got as a parent.

If you want a different life, go out and make a different life but this is the life I created. I love it get over it.

Why should a parent be sorry and apologize for these things?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not usually a very strict parent, but if my 13 year old said that to me I would make them submit to a week where I: do not drive them anywhere, including their favorite sports and classes, make them take the school bus, make them make their own meals, stop cleaning the house or doing the dishes, and stop doing laundry. If they have no idea what adulting looks like, we need to show them.

The thing is that all this gets done if both parents work. It’s not like their friends who have working parents don’t play sports, wear clean clothes or have dinner. Talk to your child about the pros and cons of staying home and why it works for you and DH and it may or may not work for then if they have families.

dp..

They may have "clean" clothes and eat dinner, but not necessarily home cooked meals, or eat dinner together.

And those parents are probably way more stressed out, which translates into more stress at home. And/or they outsource a lot of stuff, including their meals.

-signed a wfh mom

This is what people say to justify their own decisions and put down people who made different decisions.

Anyway a household with teens should always have clean clothes (because the teens should be doing their own laundry, no excuses) and a home cooked dinner. ANY household with teens is not eating diner together every night because those teens have activities in the evening.

My kids each did a year round sport, were in theater and orchestra, and it was rare that we did not have dinner together as a family.

Same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not usually a very strict parent, but if my 13 year old said that to me I would make them submit to a week where I: do not drive them anywhere, including their favorite sports and classes, make them take the school bus, make them make their own meals, stop cleaning the house or doing the dishes, and stop doing laundry. If they have no idea what adulting looks like, we need to show them.

The thing is that all this gets done if both parents work. It’s not like their friends who have working parents don’t play sports, wear clean clothes or have dinner. Talk to your child about the pros and cons of staying home and why it works for you and DH and it may or may not work for then if they have families.

dp..

They may have "clean" clothes and eat dinner, but not necessarily home cooked meals, or eat dinner together.

And those parents are probably way more stressed out, which translates into more stress at home. And/or they outsource a lot of stuff, including their meals.

-signed a wfh mom

This is what people say to justify their own decisions and put down people who made different decisions.

Anyway a household with teens should always have clean clothes (because the teens should be doing their own laundry, no excuses) and a home cooked dinner. ANY household with teens is not eating diner together every night because those teens have activities in the evening.

My kids each did a year round sport, were in theater and orchestra, and it was rare that we did not have dinner together as a family.

Same.

That is rare! My kids are both in travel sports and its rare we DO get to eat together! That being said- we try to do dessert together often.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s laughable that you claim being a sahm to teens is just as difficult as being a sahm to babies/toddlers. If you’re that exhausted scale back the Pilates and tennis.

If your kid is asking “what do you do all day” then it seems like you’re not doing a great job being a sahm

Teens are much harder. We are going from after school till 10pm some nights with activities. Sports are sometimes at 5 am.

I have young adult kids with FT jobs who graduated from college several years ago and they didn't live lives anything like this as teenagers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s laughable that you claim being a sahm to teens is just as difficult as being a sahm to babies/toddlers. If you’re that exhausted scale back the Pilates and tennis.

If your kid is asking “what do you do all day” then it seems like you’re not doing a great job being a sahm

Teens are much harder. We are going from after school till 10pm some nights with activities. Sports are sometimes at 5 am.

I have young adult kids with FT jobs who graduated from college several years ago and they didn't live lives anything like this as teenagers.

Cool....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

I'm with this poster. I think SAH parents are ridiculous with their pathetic hurt feelings and their ridiculous "I work so hard" snivels.

Not any more or less then parents who minimal childcare or housework but are ridiculously pathetic about doing double duty.

What are you blathering on about?

Some of us have solid careers and clean houses and have our sh*t together. Sorry that hurts your feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

I'm with this poster. I think SAH parents are ridiculous with their pathetic hurt feelings and their ridiculous "I work so hard" snivels.

To be fair, the “I work so hard” snivels were coming from a 13 year old. There is nothing that a seventh grader is doing that’s SO hard.

[Anonymous]

I guess I come from a background of no choices. Having choices is for wealthy people. I’ve never been able to say, “Hmmm. Life sure would be easier if I didn’t work.” Even if I could have that choice, I wouldn’t make it. I didn’t spend a pretty penny (and my parents) to do Pilates and tennis with my life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess I come from a background of no choices. Having choices is for wealthy people. I’ve never been able to say, “Hmmm. Life sure would be easier if I didn’t work.” Even if I could have that choice, I wouldn’t make it. I didn’t spend a pretty penny (and my parents) to do Pilates and tennis with my life.

Well my DH's perspective is that he's proud he can give me a life where I could take time off work to care of my family when they needed (major health issues of children/family death) and that now I can enjoy not working and doing other things instead. I do play tennis, I do Pilates but I do plenty of other things as well to support my community, they just aren't revenue generating. You sound... wound up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, teenagers aren’t very subtle but it is a valid question. Why do you need to be at home all day and not at work? It isn’t the 1950s. Hire a cleaner and order everything like groceries, etc.

I'm with this poster. I think SAH parents are ridiculous with their pathetic hurt feelings and their ridiculous "I work so hard" snivels.

Not any more or less then parents who minimal childcare or housework but are ridiculously pathetic about doing double duty.

What are you blathering on about?

Some of us have solid careers and clean houses and have our sh*t together. Sorry that hurts your feelings.

Yes, I don't get this comment. I had a nanny even when I was on maternity leave and get weekly cleaning because having a clean house is important to me. I never clean. I don't think anyone in my family has cleaned their homes in at least 4 generations. My grandmother was SAHM and had live in help. Only Americans think that cleaning toilets and doing laundry is virtuous.