Marriage is a horrible deal for women

[Anonymous]

Thank you, PP for taking down this men-aint-psychobabble (emphasis on the "psycho"). People get married for many reasons - hopefully, one of which is that they care about each other. Yes, there are times that is doesn't work out, and one's fortune may change at any moment. Billionaire Batman, one moment, pauper the next. Hate to think spouse is a fairweather friend only there for the yacht and fancy parties.

Look, if you don't want to marry, don't. You don't need to denigrate all men because we are not Tony Stark.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has been a great "deal" for me over the last 15 years. You just picked the wrong husband if it is a bad deal for YOU.

Stop congratulating yourself. You got lucky. That is it. People don't know what they are getting into when they are dealing with an emotional abuser. Shut up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

[Anonymous]

Women will marry other women. Is marriage a bad deal for them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women will marry other women. Is marriage a bad deal for them?

Probably not as bad as marriage to men. At least women have similar house maintenance ideas. To be seen in the future but sane gender marriages are on the rise!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women will marry other women. Is marriage a bad deal for them?

Women married to other women have the highest divorce rates of all couples. It's shoots a huge gaping hole in the ladies of dcum theories about men being the problem in marriages

You can’t really compare a newly emerged marriage institute with an established heterosexual marriage. It will take years to see which one is more stable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why anyone gets worked up over the idea that an institution designed by men, for the benefit of men, is not magically equally good for women. Why would we expect it to be?

I'm struggling to see how modern marriage is good for men in any way? What do men get out of it? It seems very beneficial for women though. They get legal access to husband's income, which is usually higher than theirs.

You have ADHD probably - this thread specifically describes how it’s more beneficial for men, when both spouses work. Even when the wife SAH she only gets access to husbands income as long as marriage lasts. And then she’s left with years of missed earnings and no own earning capacity

Maybe he/she read the thread and doesn't agree with the unsupported and irrational arguments for why men supposedly disproportionately benefit. Some of the reasons given:

1. Women give men children that men would otherwise have to pay for. A bizarre argument that suggests (a) women don't also want the child, (b) men are all that interested in having children, (c) men cannot have offspring without marriage, and (d) men don't have to pay for children regardless of marital status.

2. Women perform more unpaid labor at home. This assumes that married women work equal amounts outside of the home, which is not true in the data. And it assumes that a lot of the labor isn't unnecessary in the eyes of most men (e.g., much of the nesting at home).

3. Women are only having an equal match if a man makes much more money. Around these parts, it is usually the case that men make more money, which means that women get a financial benefit regardless and men stand to lose more in divorce.

4. Men get "access to sex" more as a married person. That is not true among well educated and high earning men, which is most of the demographic around here. I don't think there is a single man ever who has gotten married because he wanted more sex, and if there is such a man, he is an idiot.

It is so weird that women on this board are either posting threads about how they want to figure out how to lock down some guy in marriage, or a thread about how marriage is so terrible. I don't think I've ever seen a thread on here about a man trying to lock down a woman in marriage. Revealed preferences says more about women's attitudes about marriage than any of the harping in these threads.

The unnecessary housework thing is such a great point. Husbands do not care about so much of what women do around the house. I lived for many years without making the bed every morning, or baking cookies, or decorating for every holiday.

Women DO do more work around the house than men but you are right that some of that work is necessary only in the eyes of the woman. If she stops doing it, the husband wouldn't miss it for a second. It's OK to admit that you are doing these things to fit YOUR picture of how things ought to be done. I've lived quite happily without writing thank you notes (you can thank someone when they hand you the gift), putting together goody bags (? what a strange concept, being invited to a party is goody enough!), or having venue based parties. On the other hand, I happily spend hours on landscaping because it makes ME happy. If there was not a single flower in the garden, DH wouldn't care. I do it for my own pleasure so why would I hold it up as a symbol of oppression?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why anyone gets worked up over the idea that an institution designed by men, for the benefit of men, is not magically equally good for women. Why would we expect it to be?

I'm struggling to see how modern marriage is good for men in any way? What do men get out of it? It seems very beneficial for women though. They get legal access to husband's income, which is usually higher than theirs.

You have ADHD probably - this thread specifically describes how it’s more beneficial for men, when both spouses work. Even when the wife SAH she only gets access to husbands income as long as marriage lasts. And then she’s left with years of missed earnings and no own earning capacity

Maybe he/she read the thread and doesn't agree with the unsupported and irrational arguments for why men supposedly disproportionately benefit. Some of the reasons given:

1. Women give men children that men would otherwise have to pay for. A bizarre argument that suggests (a) women don't also want the child, (b) men are all that interested in having children, (c) men cannot have offspring without marriage, and (d) men don't have to pay for children regardless of marital status.

2. Women perform more unpaid labor at home. This assumes that married women work equal amounts outside of the home, which is not true in the data. And it assumes that a lot of the labor isn't unnecessary in the eyes of most men (e.g., much of the nesting at home).

3. Women are only having an equal match if a man makes much more money. Around these parts, it is usually the case that men make more money, which means that women get a financial benefit regardless and men stand to lose more in divorce.

4. Men get "access to sex" more as a married person. That is not true among well educated and high earning men, which is most of the demographic around here. I don't think there is a single man ever who has gotten married because he wanted more sex, and if there is such a man, he is an idiot.

It is so weird that women on this board are either posting threads about how they want to figure out how to lock down some guy in marriage, or a thread about how marriage is so terrible. I don't think I've ever seen a thread on here about a man trying to lock down a woman in marriage. Revealed preferences says more about women's attitudes about marriage than any of the harping in these threads.

The unnecessary housework thing is such a great point. Husbands do not care about so much of what women do around the house. I lived for many years without making the bed every morning, or baking cookies, or decorating for every holiday.

Women DO do more work around the house than men but you are right that some of that work is necessary only in the eyes of the woman. If she stops doing it, the husband wouldn't miss it for a second. It's OK to admit that you are doing these things to fit YOUR picture of how things ought to be done. I've lived quite happily without writing thank you notes (you can thank someone when they hand you the gift), putting together goody bags (? what a strange concept, being invited to a party is goody enough!), or having venue based parties. On the other hand, I happily spend hours on landscaping because it makes ME happy. If there was not a single flower in the garden, DH wouldn't care. I do it for my own pleasure so why would I hold it up as a symbol of oppression?

Women here who were unhappy are talking about vomit, cat toilets, trees that fall on house after husband prohibits spending money on removing it, running toilets, dirty dishes in the sinks, broken appliances. The maintenance necessities for the household. Not baking cookies or goodie bags.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a woman in a great marriage for 25 years, and gave been birth WOHM and SAHM. All of these women claiming to know no happy marriages or only one or two must just hang out with low quality, unhappy people. Virtually every couple in know - from our neighborhood, the kids’ schools, my workplace, growing up - is content in their marriage. Well more than half of these marriages involve both spouses working. Sometimes, it just really is you that is the problem.

I bet the women you know could not support themselves divorced. I do not have the time to hang out with people. I work a lot: I was married. It was awful. Double the work while he skated along at home. Women with demanding careers are likely unlike people you know…you do not know what is going on in others marriages. Our neighbors are still shocked we divorced. It looked perfect. It was awful.

Dp. This may blow your mind: I sah AND dh contributes to the running of the household. He washes dishes every night, he cooks or helps me cook dinner most nights, he grocery shops on a weekend morning, he performs general maintenance around the house, etc, etc AND he is loving and attentive to me and our kids. We are not financially rich, we're solidly middle class, but we are content with our lives. He could earn much more, but we'd never see him.

And you could not support yourself if you divorced. Good for you that you lucked out, so who cares? A stay at home mom with an equally contributing husband is not the norm.

I actually could support myself, but we aren't getting divorced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women will marry other women. Is marriage a bad deal for them?

If they are heterosexual it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why anyone gets worked up over the idea that an institution designed by men, for the benefit of men, is not magically equally good for women. Why would we expect it to be?

I'm struggling to see how modern marriage is good for men in any way? What do men get out of it? It seems very beneficial for women though. They get legal access to husband's income, which is usually higher than theirs.

You have ADHD probably - this thread specifically describes how it’s more beneficial for men, when both spouses work. Even when the wife SAH she only gets access to husbands income as long as marriage lasts. And then she’s left with years of missed earnings and no own earning capacity

Maybe he/she read the thread and doesn't agree with the unsupported and irrational arguments for why men supposedly disproportionately benefit. Some of the reasons given:

1. Women give men children that men would otherwise have to pay for. A bizarre argument that suggests (a) women don't also want the child, (b) men are all that interested in having children, (c) men cannot have offspring without marriage, and (d) men don't have to pay for children regardless of marital status.

2. Women perform more unpaid labor at home. This assumes that married women work equal amounts outside of the home, which is not true in the data. And it assumes that a lot of the labor isn't unnecessary in the eyes of most men (e.g., much of the nesting at home).

3. Women are only having an equal match if a man makes much more money. Around these parts, it is usually the case that men make more money, which means that women get a financial benefit regardless and men stand to lose more in divorce.

4. Men get "access to sex" more as a married person. That is not true among well educated and high earning men, which is most of the demographic around here. I don't think there is a single man ever who has gotten married because he wanted more sex, and if there is such a man, he is an idiot.

It is so weird that women on this board are either posting threads about how they want to figure out how to lock down some guy in marriage, or a thread about how marriage is so terrible. I don't think I've ever seen a thread on here about a man trying to lock down a woman in marriage. Revealed preferences says more about women's attitudes about marriage than any of the harping in these threads.

The unnecessary housework thing is such a great point. Husbands do not care about so much of what women do around the house. I lived for many years without making the bed every morning, or baking cookies, or decorating for every holiday.

Women DO do more work around the house than men but you are right that some of that work is necessary only in the eyes of the woman. If she stops doing it, the husband wouldn't miss it for a second. It's OK to admit that you are doing these things to fit YOUR picture of how things ought to be done. I've lived quite happily without writing thank you notes (you can thank someone when they hand you the gift), putting together goody bags (? what a strange concept, being invited to a party is goody enough!), or having venue based parties. On the other hand, I happily spend hours on landscaping because it makes ME happy. If there was not a single flower in the garden, DH wouldn't care. I do it for my own pleasure so why would I hold it up as a symbol of oppression?

Women here who were unhappy are talking about vomit, cat toilets, trees that fall on house after husband prohibits spending money on removing it, running toilets, dirty dishes in the sinks, broken appliances. The maintenance necessities for the household. Not baking cookies or goodie bags.

Nah they are talking about unnecessary nonsense.

I still remember when my grad school gf launched a long tirade about her housemate being an incredible slob. Her example at the time was… her housemate left one coffee cup in the sink. I was like geez don’t marry her, and I pity the fool who eventually did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

It’s hard to understand because it’s not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

I’m a single dad who works and is the primary parent and the alleged difficulty of this is vastly exaggerated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Man here with a couple observations

If you can't outsource or SAH then yes marriage is harder for the woman hands down.

It's gotten better but society still defaults to the woman doing most of the household management and in Type A DC there isn't enough time to make it work without major stress

Now there is an out. If your HHI is under 200k maybe even with both spouses working, realistically the smartest move is to get out of this area.

There are plenty of places in the country where that income is comfortable where you can either stay at home or outsource and things will be much better and happier for you.

But you can't carry that income level with you to the lower COL area.