Feel terrible about my finances after reading this site

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for OP (daughter): Just curious, have your parents supported their parents in their elder years? (I still think you owe them nothing, just wondering.)

Also, my DH and I both had low-paying jobs we loved and couldn't save much. We took out large loans so our DD could have an Ivy college education. No financial aid because of other assets we had (from a divorce) which we could not touch during her college years (because I was helping to subsidize my own parents' elder years). DD did not have to take out a penny of loans in her own name. We would never dream of asking her to support us.

Your parents can't have it both ways: move to US so you can have US educational advantages but expect you to accept values of a culture you never lived in. You deserve to chart your own path in life. You are not beholden to them. Make it clear to them now so they can get busy on Plan B for their retirement. Your mom is especially hypocritical. If she won't work, that is NOT your problem.

My parents haven’t supported their own parents in their elder years since they have siblings (who all live in Korea and are thus much closer to my grandparents than my parents are). But since I’m an only child and probably won’t move out of the US, I’m the only one left to support my parents.

My parents have always told me that they’re sick and tired of me “trying to have it all.” That is to say, they repeatedly have told me that they’re sick of me whining about my brutal BB IB job when they sacrificed everything for me to come here. They are sick of having to pay back their 401k loan for an education that wasn’t theirs. They repeatedly tell me over the phone that they’re sick of me trying to assert my independence in “staying in the Northeast after graduation” when they wanted me to live near them in the DMV.

I agree that my mom refusing to work isn’t my problem, but she doesn’t see it that way. My mom constantly guilt trips me with the “I sacrificed my rewarding career in Korea so I could educate you to get into an Ivy,” so she expects me to take care of her in her old age.

OP, this was asked several times earlier - what does your mom actually do all day every day since you left home? Is she busy with volunteering and social stuff so doesn't have time to get a job? Or is she just literally staying at home doing nothing?

I just can't understand why she wouldn't want to do some type of work, even if minimal, just to have something to do and earn a little bit while waiting for you to turn 30 and start the retirement subsidy payments?

She worked until a couple of years ago when she got fired from her job for not speaking English. But she cannot get a menial labor job as her back pain is too severe. She spends most of her days socializing with her friends (other Korean SAHMs who are married to engineers like my dad). She has a very active social life and also goes to church several times a week.

Sounds like a rough life full of sacrifices.

I can’t tell if you’re joking. But she does consistently harp on me about the sacrifices she made for me, which I think are and were very real and legitimate.

Is this OP? I'm not sure how raising one daughter as a SAHM is necessarily such a tough sacrifice (meaning, it's a luxury that many Americans let alone immigrant families simply cannot afford). Maybe you just didn't get to know other types of first gen immigrant parents like yours growing up, but in the real world there are plenty of working moms (and dads) who sacrificed their prestigious careers to come here, took menial jobs for a decade (I know a handful of PhD couples or MD couples who worked full time jobs as lab technicians most of their careers because of having to start from zero in a new country) and still managed to come out happy that their kids are starting their adult lives successfully without having to burden them as they approach retirement.

The (immigrant) world is way bigger than what you have experienced/ what your parents must have decided to drill into you as "normal". At a certain point in life, you're going to have to make the tough decision whether to continue your own family tradition as your parents expect you to, or to break free of the cycle and live the way you think is acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP to whom the responses above are written. The reason I wrote it was crazy and unacceptable is not related to culture. They did not follow the norms of their OWN culture. They did not support their OWN parents in their elder years. That is an extra reason why I wrote that they can't have it both ways, though they are trying to. And it is crazy and unacceptable not to be beholden to their own parents but to guilt trip their DD to be beholden to them. That is part of why I wrote that they are hypocrites.

My two sisters and I all went to Ivy League colleges. My mother managed to maintain a career as a lawyer while also making sure we did our best work on everything. My parents paid every cent of our undergrad educations (except for my older sister who got tons of merit scholarships). My sisters and I did not have to take out any loans in our names or pay any of our own way. My parents never ever expected anything in return. You might argue that they didn't sacrifice. One could argue that OP's parents didn't really sacrifice either, not much. Her mother's career was low paying in the first place. Her parents have found some of their own benefits in living in this country.

One of our husbands' parents used to lay that guilt trip a little. "I gave up my career and stayed home and you don't appreciate my sacrifices, wah wah." It is not a "good look" for parents to guilt their kids. Parenting and sacrifices ARE gambles. There are no guarantees in life. Parental devotion and supports do NOT guarantee an Ivy education and a high paying job! Their DD could have taken drugs, gotten a life threatening illness, gotten pregnant, lots of things.

We parent as well as we can because we love our children and want good lives for them... not as a return on our investment. And in this country where their daughter lives, yes, it is crazy and unacceptable to insist on this return on one's investment, to regard a family as a business venture.

Especially when the parents did not live their OWN lives that way!!!

+100 - OP, your parents felt free to do what they wanted/what they felt was best for their family, which was moving to the US while their parents stayed behind. They apparently feel no obligation to support their parents since they have siblings or whatever the case is that will support them. They gave you no such option by making you an only child and putting you in this position and that is not your fault at all. You deserve to have your own family if you desire and not be tied down to parents who have not planned sufficiently and frankly sound lazy in your mom's case.

As an aside, my MIL wanted nothing to do with helping her parents or ILs in their old age yet she expects the world from us. I find it to be the height of hypocrisy. Sorry your parents are treating you like this.

You really think SAHMs are lazy?

Absolutely not. I am a SAHM myself. But I had a challenging career before kids and would never speak to my children the way OP's parents speak to her.
If I (we/DH) could not support ourselves and the options were sitting at home socializing/relaxing for years expecting my daughter to work 90 hour weeks, or me getting a job, any job, it's pretty clear what the choice is.

[Anonymous]

"You really think SAHMs are lazy?"

DP from the one who called the mom lazy, but PP who said their expectations are crazy and unacceptable:

Someone who is in their 50s with no children at home, who has had over 20 years to learn English and has not done so, and who socializes all day rather than contribute to society with a job of any sort or volunteer work: yes, I would agree with the poster who called her lazy. For her to pile on the guilt about all the sacrifices she made... we don't know what they are but OP accepts that she did sacrifice... but she is living a cushy life now while OP works 90 hour weeks in a job she despises... ugh. I have NO sympathy for her. The mom is the one who wants to have it all. Back pain or no back pain, she could do SOMEthing. Not all menial work is back-breaking. She is in an insular world of Korean SAHMs who reinforce each other's sense of entitlement. It doesn't mean OP needs to cater to it.

[Anonymous]

Your parents are bums, abusive and also going to bleed you dry. Something is very wrong with them, as everyone from your own culture and cultures similar have said.

You need therapy and to be clear you will not support them in retirement. I’d be very clear it’s because your mom’s a loser.

If they expect you to support them you own them and control every decision they make. Mom shouldn’t be allowed to see friends without permission. Because I guarantee they controlled you when they were paying your way as a child.

[Anonymous]

Raising hand to say- I’m a SAHM of 4. SAHM of 1 child (especially a calm, easy, compliant Asian daughter) is about the easiest SAHM gig there is. Kids start school age 5, then it’s just about 4-5 hours a day with a meal and bath and tv time thrown in. Not too hard at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for OP (daughter): Just curious, have your parents supported their parents in their elder years? (I still think you owe them nothing, just wondering.)

Also, my DH and I both had low-paying jobs we loved and couldn't save much. We took out large loans so our DD could have an Ivy college education. No financial aid because of other assets we had (from a divorce) which we could not touch during her college years (because I was helping to subsidize my own parents' elder years). DD did not have to take out a penny of loans in her own name. We would never dream of asking her to support us.

Your parents can't have it both ways: move to US so you can have US educational advantages but expect you to accept values of a culture you never lived in. You deserve to chart your own path in life. You are not beholden to them. Make it clear to them now so they can get busy on Plan B for their retirement. Your mom is especially hypocritical. If she won't work, that is NOT your problem.

My parents haven’t supported their own parents in their elder years since they have siblings (who all live in Korea and are thus much closer to my grandparents than my parents are). But since I’m an only child and probably won’t move out of the US, I’m the only one left to support my parents.

My parents have always told me that they’re sick and tired of me “trying to have it all.” That is to say, they repeatedly have told me that they’re sick of me whining about my brutal BB IB job when they sacrificed everything for me to come here. They are sick of having to pay back their 401k loan for an education that wasn’t theirs. They repeatedly tell me over the phone that they’re sick of me trying to assert my independence in “staying in the Northeast after graduation” when they wanted me to live near them in the DMV.

I agree that my mom refusing to work isn’t my problem, but she doesn’t see it that way. My mom constantly guilt trips me with the “I sacrificed my rewarding career in Korea so I could educate you to get into an Ivy,” so she expects me to take care of her in her old age.

OP, this was asked several times earlier - what does your mom actually do all day every day since you left home? Is she busy with volunteering and social stuff so doesn't have time to get a job? Or is she just literally staying at home doing nothing?

I just can't understand why she wouldn't want to do some type of work, even if minimal, just to have something to do and earn a little bit while waiting for you to turn 30 and start the retirement subsidy payments?

She worked until a couple of years ago when she got fired from her job for not speaking English. But she cannot get a menial labor job as her back pain is too severe. She spends most of her days socializing with her friends (other Korean SAHMs who are married to engineers like my dad). She has a very active social life and also goes to church several times a week.

Sounds like a rough life full of sacrifices.

I can’t tell if you’re joking. But she does consistently harp on me about the sacrifices she made for me, which I think are and were very real and legitimate.

One thing OP's parental sacrifices didn't cover is social cues to irony and facetiousness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Raising hand to say- I’m a SAHM of 4. SAHM of 1 child (especially a calm, easy, compliant Asian daughter) is about the easiest SAHM gig there is. Kids start school age 5, then it’s just about 4-5 hours a day with a meal and bath and tv time thrown in. Not too hard at all.

Raising hand to say Asian former SAHM now WOHM of 2 high achieving teens.
I sacrificed sleep in their first year but not gonna put that over them.
What I did sacrifice is my cushy SAHM status so I could model productive behavior to them and be a contributor to society.

[Anonymous]

In theory there is a middle ground. You could find a less demanding but well compensated job. Less misery, but resourced enough to help your parents if needed.

[Anonymous]

First, whatever sacrifice the mom made does NOT obligate OP to work 90 hours a week.

Whether OP's SAHM had it easy as a SAHM or has it easy now is NOT the point. OP's mom stepped away from her career to care for her daughter and couldn't find a job in her field here in the US. (at least I think that's what I read several pages ago). I imagine that is the sacrifice OP's mom is talking about. Although this was a choice it was also a sacrifice. I imagine any SAHM who had an interesting career before kids feels this sacrifice on some level. Obviously it is a privilege to make the choice, but lets not pretend that SAHMs sit around being pampered all day while the maid does all the housework and the nanny cares for the child. Lets not pretend that a woman can't feel the sacrifice of giving up an interesting career even if she has the luxury of making that choice. Lets not pretend women born in America can step away from working for a few years and jump right back into their careers. Let's not pretend there are tons of family friendly jobs out there which fit neatly around school schedules, let alone family friendly jobs that non-english speakers can easily get. Not to mention OP's mom did work until she was recently field for not speaking English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because your parents want to lay heavy guilt trips on you does not mean that you need to shoulder that guilt. Everything in life is a bit of a gamble. They had no idea if their DD would get into an Ivy or get a high paying job. They put all their eggs in one basket: you. Everything you write makes me more indignant about their expectations. (I am the PP at the top of this page, p. 14).

You can be loving but set boundaries. It must be hard to have no siblings, with parents putting so many pressures on you: Ivy education, high paying job, move to be near them, support them starting in your 30s. It is CRAZY and unacceptable for them to expect this. It seems normal to them but it is NOT normal in the world you grew up in. Life is too short to live it unhappily. Do what makes you happy. Find balance in your life. Make time for friends who can be more supportive than your parents can. Shut down these guilt trips. Really. Just shut it down. "This topic is closed for discussion. I will live my own life. Thank you for my upbringing. But no more guilt. It's over." You can do this. If they continue to guilt you, honestly, just say once again, "No more guilt. I'm done," and hang up. I think hanging up is terribly rude but protecting yourself is super important when you are at the breaking point and they refuse to thinof of YOUR best interests.

It was not a “gamble.” Immigrant parents sacrifice for their kids, and their kids must sacrifice for them. That’s not a “gamble,” that’s a business deal that many parents in this area make.

And I’m sure with all the supplemental tutoring and intensive parenting that DD’s SAHM did for her, they were confident she’d get into an Ivy and get a high paying job.

A “deal” is but definition mutual. An expectation is not a deal; it’s a wish.

[Anonymous]

*by definition

[Anonymous]

OP, what you need to realize is that some Asian parents will say ANYTHING that fits their modus operandi.

I have known Asians who buy their parents a home because they have been drilled to believe that is what Asians do for their parents.
And I have also known Asians who expect their parents to pay for their home and their grandchildren's private school tuition because they have been drilled to believe that is the standard behavior too - you know, the parents will keep sacrificing for their kids and grandkids and eat into their retirement in order to do so.

I've met Asians of all strata of society, the ones who came here in the late 60s and 70s, low skilled middle skilled and the current scions of party cadres, and one thing is common is family obligation and it doesn't necessarily flow in the same direction for all. This obligation stuff is basically opportunism masquerading as cultural mores.
Your mother has guilt-tripped you so much that your debt to them is a liability in the marital arena. Do they even understand how this yoke they've put around you severely hampers your prospects there?
Are you an investment vehicle for them or an expression of their love and hope for the future?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, what you need to realize is that some Asian parents will say ANYTHING that fits their modus operandi.

I have known Asians who buy their parents a home because they have been drilled to believe that is what Asians do for their parents.
And I have also known Asians who expect their parents to pay for their home and their grandchildren's private school tuition because they have been drilled to believe that is the standard behavior too - you know, the parents will keep sacrificing for their kids and grandkids and eat into their retirement in order to do so.

I've met Asians of all strata of society, the ones who came here in the late 60s and 70s, low skilled middle skilled and the current scions of party cadres, and one thing is common is family obligation and it doesn't necessarily flow in the same direction for all. This obligation stuff is basically opportunism masquerading as cultural mores.
Your mother has guilt-tripped you so much that your debt to them is a liability in the marital arena. Do they even understand how this yoke they've put around you severely hampers your prospects there?
Are you an investment vehicle for them or an expression of their love and hope for the future?

Follow up:
One of the things I've noticed about Koreans is that they seem to see people as a form of utility more so than other Asians. While this is also characteristic of poor rural Chinese in the hinterlands, it is not pervasive in the urban class. However, it does seem pervasive in all levels of Korean society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"You really think SAHMs are lazy?"

DP from the one who called the mom lazy, but PP who said their expectations are crazy and unacceptable:

Someone who is in their 50s with no children at home, who has had over 20 years to learn English and has not done so, and who socializes all day rather than contribute to society with a job of any sort or volunteer work: yes, I would agree with the poster who called her lazy. For her to pile on the guilt about all the sacrifices she made... we don't know what they are but OP accepts that she did sacrifice... but she is living a cushy life now while OP works 90 hour weeks in a job she despises... ugh. I have NO sympathy for her. The mom is the one who wants to have it all. Back pain or no back pain, she could do SOMEthing. Not all menial work is back-breaking. She is in an insular world of Korean SAHMs who reinforce each other's sense of entitlement. It doesn't mean OP needs to cater to it.

What jobs are there for an immigrant woman in her early 50s who doesn’t speak English that wouldn’t trigger her back pain? Also, that “insular world of Korean SAHMs who reinforce each other’s sense of entitlement” would be most Korean immigrants in this country. OP’s situation is not unusual! Most Asian immigrant parents who sacrificed everything to move to the US would feel the same way as OP’s parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, whatever sacrifice the mom made does NOT obligate OP to work 90 hours a week.

Whether OP's SAHM had it easy as a SAHM or has it easy now is NOT the point. OP's mom stepped away from her career to care for her daughter and couldn't find a job in her field here in the US. (at least I think that's what I read several pages ago). I imagine that is the sacrifice OP's mom is talking about. Although this was a choice it was also a sacrifice. I imagine any SAHM who had an interesting career before kids feels this sacrifice on some level. Obviously it is a privilege to make the choice, but lets not pretend that SAHMs sit around being pampered all day while the maid does all the housework and the nanny cares for the child. Lets not pretend that a woman can't feel the sacrifice of giving up an interesting career even if she has the luxury of making that choice. Lets not pretend women born in America can step away from working for a few years and jump right back into their careers. Let's not pretend there are tons of family friendly jobs out there which fit neatly around school schedules, let alone family friendly jobs that non-english speakers can easily get. Not to mention OP's mom did work until she was recently field for not speaking English.

See, you get it. OP’s mom sacrificed a LOT for her. Which is something that the privileged white posters in this thread don’t understand.