Feel terrible about my finances after reading this site

[Anonymous]

So this was a troll? LOL

Is this the famous troll?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, what you need to realize is that some Asian parents will say ANYTHING that fits their modus operandi.

I have known Asians who buy their parents a home because they have been drilled to believe that is what Asians do for their parents.
And I have also known Asians who expect their parents to pay for their home and their grandchildren's private school tuition because they have been drilled to believe that is the standard behavior too - you know, the parents will keep sacrificing for their kids and grandkids and eat into their retirement in order to do so.

I've met Asians of all strata of society, the ones who came here in the late 60s and 70s, low skilled middle skilled and the current scions of party cadres, and one thing is common is family obligation and it doesn't necessarily flow in the same direction for all. This obligation stuff is basically opportunism masquerading as cultural mores.
Your mother has guilt-tripped you so much that your debt to them is a liability in the marital arena. Do they even understand how this yoke they've put around you severely hampers your prospects there?
Are you an investment vehicle for them or an expression of their love and hope for the future?

Any guy who doesn’t want to marry someone because he doesn’t want to support his in-laws is no man worth marrying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, whatever sacrifice the mom made does NOT obligate OP to work 90 hours a week.

Whether OP's SAHM had it easy as a SAHM or has it easy now is NOT the point. OP's mom stepped away from her career to care for her daughter and couldn't find a job in her field here in the US. (at least I think that's what I read several pages ago). I imagine that is the sacrifice OP's mom is talking about. Although this was a choice it was also a sacrifice. I imagine any SAHM who had an interesting career before kids feels this sacrifice on some level. Obviously it is a privilege to make the choice, but lets not pretend that SAHMs sit around being pampered all day while the maid does all the housework and the nanny cares for the child. Lets not pretend that a woman can't feel the sacrifice of giving up an interesting career even if she has the luxury of making that choice. Lets not pretend women born in America can step away from working for a few years and jump right back into their careers. Let's not pretend there are tons of family friendly jobs out there which fit neatly around school schedules, let alone family friendly jobs that non-english speakers can easily get. Not to mention OP's mom did work until she was recently field for not speaking English.

See, you get it. OP’s mom sacrificed a LOT for her. Which is something that the privileged white posters in this thread don’t understand.

I'm Chinese, born in Taiwan. I don't think OP's mother sacrificed anythng. To sacrifice something is to give up something precious. Doesn't sound like what she had in Korea was particularly prized. The alphas don't emigrate, the betas do.

[Anonymous]

Why is this in money and finance?

It should be in Family Relationships.

Maybe if Jeff agrees he can make a new forum called "Trolling" - so that we all can indulge our inner troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, whatever sacrifice the mom made does NOT obligate OP to work 90 hours a week.

Whether OP's SAHM had it easy as a SAHM or has it easy now is NOT the point. OP's mom stepped away from her career to care for her daughter and couldn't find a job in her field here in the US. (at least I think that's what I read several pages ago). I imagine that is the sacrifice OP's mom is talking about. Although this was a choice it was also a sacrifice. I imagine any SAHM who had an interesting career before kids feels this sacrifice on some level. Obviously it is a privilege to make the choice, but lets not pretend that SAHMs sit around being pampered all day while the maid does all the housework and the nanny cares for the child. Lets not pretend that a woman can't feel the sacrifice of giving up an interesting career even if she has the luxury of making that choice. Lets not pretend women born in America can step away from working for a few years and jump right back into their careers. Let's not pretend there are tons of family friendly jobs out there which fit neatly around school schedules, let alone family friendly jobs that non-english speakers can easily get. Not to mention OP's mom did work until she was recently field for not speaking English.

See, you get it. OP’s mom sacrificed a LOT for her. Which is something that the privileged white posters in this thread don’t understand.

All of us are Asian!!!! You and OP’s parents are just pathetic losers sponging off your kids. You can’t make a deal with a person who doesn’t exist. I’m sure everyone would’ve mocked OP’s mom for being barren, so OP more than paid off her debt by being born.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is this in money and finance?

It should be in Family Relationships.

Maybe if Jeff agrees he can make a new forum called "Trolling" - so that we all can indulge our inner troll.

Lol that’d be awesome

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what you need to realize is that some Asian parents will say ANYTHING that fits their modus operandi.

I have known Asians who buy their parents a home because they have been drilled to believe that is what Asians do for their parents.
And I have also known Asians who expect their parents to pay for their home and their grandchildren's private school tuition because they have been drilled to believe that is the standard behavior too - you know, the parents will keep sacrificing for their kids and grandkids and eat into their retirement in order to do so.

I've met Asians of all strata of society, the ones who came here in the late 60s and 70s, low skilled middle skilled and the current scions of party cadres, and one thing is common is family obligation and it doesn't necessarily flow in the same direction for all. This obligation stuff is basically opportunism masquerading as cultural mores.
Your mother has guilt-tripped you so much that your debt to them is a liability in the marital arena. Do they even understand how this yoke they've put around you severely hampers your prospects there?
Are you an investment vehicle for them or an expression of their love and hope for the future?

Any guy who doesn’t want to marry someone because he doesn’t want to support his in-laws is no man worth marrying.

It's not that he won't marry her, he won't even consider dating her. The kaibosh is already down.
Would you consider dating someone who's mother is breathing down his neck to move in with him and his future wife? Swipe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what you need to realize is that some Asian parents will say ANYTHING that fits their modus operandi.

I have known Asians who buy their parents a home because they have been drilled to believe that is what Asians do for their parents.
And I have also known Asians who expect their parents to pay for their home and their grandchildren's private school tuition because they have been drilled to believe that is the standard behavior too - you know, the parents will keep sacrificing for their kids and grandkids and eat into their retirement in order to do so.

I've met Asians of all strata of society, the ones who came here in the late 60s and 70s, low skilled middle skilled and the current scions of party cadres, and one thing is common is family obligation and it doesn't necessarily flow in the same direction for all. This obligation stuff is basically opportunism masquerading as cultural mores.
Your mother has guilt-tripped you so much that your debt to them is a liability in the marital arena. Do they even understand how this yoke they've put around you severely hampers your prospects there?
Are you an investment vehicle for them or an expression of their love and hope for the future?

Any guy who doesn’t want to marry someone because he doesn’t want to support his in-laws is no man worth marrying.

The opposite actually. Any guy who would be cool with this is a total doormat going nowhere. Especially considering OP’s parents will be multimillionaires when they expect this handout.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, whatever sacrifice the mom made does NOT obligate OP to work 90 hours a week.

Whether OP's SAHM had it easy as a SAHM or has it easy now is NOT the point. OP's mom stepped away from her career to care for her daughter and couldn't find a job in her field here in the US. (at least I think that's what I read several pages ago). I imagine that is the sacrifice OP's mom is talking about. Although this was a choice it was also a sacrifice. I imagine any SAHM who had an interesting career before kids feels this sacrifice on some level. Obviously it is a privilege to make the choice, but lets not pretend that SAHMs sit around being pampered all day while the maid does all the housework and the nanny cares for the child. Lets not pretend that a woman can't feel the sacrifice of giving up an interesting career even if she has the luxury of making that choice. Lets not pretend women born in America can step away from working for a few years and jump right back into their careers. Let's not pretend there are tons of family friendly jobs out there which fit neatly around school schedules, let alone family friendly jobs that non-english speakers can easily get. Not to mention OP's mom did work until she was recently field for not speaking English.

See, you get it. OP’s mom sacrificed a LOT for her. Which is something that the privileged white posters in this thread don’t understand.

All of us are Asian!!!! You and OP’s parents are just pathetic losers sponging off your kids. You can’t make a deal with a person who doesn’t exist. I’m sure everyone would’ve mocked OP’s mom for being barren, so OP more than paid off her debt by being born.

+1

Korean American here, born in Korea, and I can't fathom being in my early 50s and willingly letting my only kid work like a dog so I can stay at home the rest of my life. It's one thing if my husband were rich, but if I'm worried about retirement and the choice is between my only daughter working herself to the bone or me trying out various other ways to earn money, there's no way I would just hang out with friends doing nothing.

[Anonymous]

Question for the OP. Why did you make this thread? Are you overly stressed but want to convince yourself that you should be footing your parents retirement? You won’t get that advice from an American forum, even if there are some Asian immigrants chiming in.

If this situation is true, I do feel sorry for you. I’m the PP whose mom worked her butt off to provide for us, despite very poor language skills. We are not Korean though, so maybe there is a small part cultural thing going on here. Are her church sahm friends also expecting to be bankrolled by their kids?

This might only be half serious, but I’d start forwarding your parents articles about IBankers dying from exhaustion, and also start musing that you can’t wait to have multiple babies and stay home with them so you can also give them a leg up in life and they can also go to ivies (read sarcasm here, but seriously give this strategy a shot!!). Or start talking about moving to South Korea and being a housewife there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP to whom the responses above are written. The reason I wrote it was crazy and unacceptable is not related to culture. They did not follow the norms of their OWN culture. They did not support their OWN parents in their elder years. That is an extra reason why I wrote that they can't have it both ways, though they are trying to. And it is crazy and unacceptable not to be beholden to their own parents but to guilt trip their DD to be beholden to them. That is part of why I wrote that they are hypocrites.

My two sisters and I all went to Ivy League colleges. My mother managed to maintain a career as a lawyer while also making sure we did our best work on everything. My parents paid every cent of our undergrad educations (except for my older sister who got tons of merit scholarships). My sisters and I did not have to take out any loans in our names or pay any of our own way. My parents never ever expected anything in return. You might argue that they didn't sacrifice. One could argue that OP's parents didn't really sacrifice either, not much. Her mother's career was low paying in the first place. Her parents have found some of their own benefits in living in this country.

One of our husbands' parents used to lay that guilt trip a little. "I gave up my career and stayed home and you don't appreciate my sacrifices, wah wah." It is not a "good look" for parents to guilt their kids. Parenting and sacrifices ARE gambles. There are no guarantees in life. Parental devotion and supports do NOT guarantee an Ivy education and a high paying job! Their DD could have taken drugs, gotten a life threatening illness, gotten pregnant, lots of things.

We parent as well as we can because we love our children and want good lives for them... not as a return on our investment. And in this country where their daughter lives, yes, it is crazy and unacceptable to insist on this return on one's investment, to regard a family as a business venture.

Especially when the parents did not live their OWN lives that way!!!

+100 - OP, your parents felt free to do what they wanted/what they felt was best for their family, which was moving to the US while their parents stayed behind. They apparently feel no obligation to support their parents since they have siblings or whatever the case is that will support them. They gave you no such option by making you an only child and putting you in this position and that is not your fault at all. You deserve to have your own family if you desire and not be tied down to parents who have not planned sufficiently and frankly sound lazy in your mom's case.

As an aside, my MIL wanted nothing to do with helping her parents or ILs in their old age yet she expects the world from us. I find it to be the height of hypocrisy. Sorry your parents are treating you like this.

You really think SAHMs are lazy?

The mom isn't a SAHM anymore. Her only child is grown. Now she's basically decided to retire early and not work. This would be fine if they were in a good place financially, but they aren't. So now the mom is expecting her daughter to fund her mom's decision not to work. If her mom is now 50 and DD is done with college that means her mom basically "retired" in her 40s. That's a luxury not a sacrifice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question for the OP. Why did you make this thread? Are you overly stressed but want to convince yourself that you should be footing your parents retirement? You won’t get that advice from an American forum, even if there are some Asian immigrants chiming in.

If this situation is true, I do feel sorry for you. I’m the PP whose mom worked her butt off to provide for us, despite very poor language skills. We are not Korean though, so maybe there is a small part cultural thing going on here. Are her church sahm friends also expecting to be bankrolled by their kids?

This might only be half serious, but I’d start forwarding your parents articles about IBankers dying from exhaustion, and also start musing that you can’t wait to have multiple babies and stay home with them so you can also give them a leg up in life and they can also go to ivies (read sarcasm here, but seriously give this strategy a shot!!). Or start talking about moving to South Korea and being a housewife there.

OP here. I made this thread largely to weigh the pros and cons of staying in NYC finance. And yes, none of her friends from church/the surrounding Korean community work, and yes, they’re expecting their kids to bankroll them as they age as well.

That last suggestion is a good one! I would never be a housewife in S. Korea though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because your parents want to lay heavy guilt trips on you does not mean that you need to shoulder that guilt. Everything in life is a bit of a gamble. They had no idea if their DD would get into an Ivy or get a high paying job. They put all their eggs in one basket: you. Everything you write makes me more indignant about their expectations. (I am the PP at the top of this page, p. 14).

You can be loving but set boundaries. It must be hard to have no siblings, with parents putting so many pressures on you: Ivy education, high paying job, move to be near them, support them starting in your 30s. It is CRAZY and unacceptable for them to expect this. It seems normal to them but it is NOT normal in the world you grew up in. Life is too short to live it unhappily. Do what makes you happy. Find balance in your life. Make time for friends who can be more supportive than your parents can. Shut down these guilt trips. Really. Just shut it down. "This topic is closed for discussion. I will live my own life. Thank you for my upbringing. But no more guilt. It's over." You can do this. If they continue to guilt you, honestly, just say once again, "No more guilt. I'm done," and hang up. I think hanging up is terribly rude but protecting yourself is super important when you are at the breaking point and they refuse to thinof of YOUR best interests.

It was not a “gamble.” Immigrant parents sacrifice for their kids, and their kids must sacrifice for them. That’s not a “gamble,” that’s a business deal that many parents in this area make.

And I’m sure with all the supplemental tutoring and intensive parenting that DD’s SAHM did for her, they were confident she’d get into an Ivy and get a high paying job.

The daughter had no agency in all of these decisions. She is not bound by some imaginary contract she never agreed to.

That contract you are referring to is part of the social norms in some cultures. The daughter knows their culture and understands what is expected of her.
I’m Asian and we take care of our parents. We don’t let them fend form themselves when they are aging and need help.

[Anonymous]

I've posted before but I'll say this again. OP needs to talk specific expectations and $ with her parents. They have a solid amount of assets. Assuming their lifestyle is fairly modest I don't see them needing much beyond their savings and SS in retirement. What exactly do they want from OP? Just assurance they won't be on their own? That seems reasonable, many parents want help navigating their affairs as they age. Why are they expecting to run out of money? When do they expect to run out of money? These seem reasonable questions for OP to ask her parents when they tell her they expect her to support them. Not that I think OP should be on the hook for supporting her parents. I'm white, but in recent years my parent has let me now they expect to live with me. They don't need financially and it isn't practical (no ground floor bedrooms and lots of stairs up to my front door) but the root of it is they don't want to be alone and are tired of navigating things like health care. They are in their 70s and want someone to take care of them. My situation has a lot of differences from OPs, but some of what I read here sounds familiar.

OP, you are not responsible for funding your parents' retirement, but talk to them. Maybe you can help them get a better financial plan. Maybe it will help them just to know you are involved and care.

[Anonymous]

If you've ever wondered over the historic overpopulation of East Asia, OP's parents provide a glimpse. Children are an investment vehicle. The more you have, the more likely you can sit back and let the kids do all the work and raise each other. Quantity over quality.
Birthrates have significantly fallen in the last few decades (although there are still wackos who manage to get away with many multiple children in the rural areas, google the chained chinese woman who had 8 or 9 kids discovered last year) BUT the mentality of children providing long term ROI is still there.

Unfortunately OP's parents left the land where this perspective is endorsed. OP's parents NEED to stay in their immigrant bubble here to shield this outlook. Their conscience cannot be pierced by the values of this country they chose to plop their daughter in. One can feasibly argue that the parents did not consciously emigrate if they can float along in an immigrant bubble. And this is where it is deeply unfair to OP because she has to straddle between that bubble and the functional reality of living here. One's perspective about work and life is different if everyone around you also works 6 days a week, 9 to 9 and goes home to mom and dad. That's the norm there, it's not here and our expectations here are adjusted accordingly.
I think that last phrase sums up the problem. Our expectations are adjusted accordingly. OP's mother has not adjusted her expectations according to the land her family dwells in.