The divide gets bigger as you get older...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me the biggest divide is location. My core friends live within 2 miles of me in Bethesda whereas some of my really good friends live in NoVa, further out, etc.

It’s hard to see them as regularly given how ours kids activities are central to Bethesda. As much as alexandria, Rockville, ashburn, etc are fun to go to, it’s really tough.

Rockville is that hard? I live in Bethesda and am going to Rockville later today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I reject Ivy leaguers from jobs all day. My favorite hires are usually state school honors program kids. Bright, realistic, and hungry!

Great to hear! This describes my undergraduate student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reject Ivy leaguers from jobs all day. My favorite hires are usually state school honors program kids. Bright, realistic, and hungry!

I find that when people say this, they don’t mean it literally. They only mean this in regards to a couple state schools and definitely not in regards to non-flagship state schools. So it’s a bit disingenuous.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I reject Ivy leaguers from jobs all day. My favorite hires are usually state school honors program kids. Bright, realistic, and hungry!

This is who our hiring panels favor as well. The Ivies are almost disadvantaged at our firm.

When I hear this I think people just want to hire people they can boss around more.

No, not at all. In fact we want someone with a backbone. I will hire Ivy kids if I see they have middle or lower class background, or ROTC or food service jobs or agricultural work. Real world experience. I'm dating myself but a kid came in from Harvard with Subway Certified Sandwich Artist on his resume and it really did make a difference to me.

I know that's your schtick and the way you think you're doing it. But it's biased and as a psychologist I think there's something more going on. Just my 2c.

Many people get insecure when they see that Ivy degree.

I also think the poster you’re responding to wants poorer kids she can boss around.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I reject Ivy leaguers from jobs all day. My favorite hires are usually state school honors program kids. Bright, realistic, and hungry!

This is who our hiring panels favor as well. The Ivies are almost disadvantaged at our firm.

When I hear this I think people just want to hire people they can boss around more.

No, not at all. In fact we want someone with a backbone. I will hire Ivy kids if I see they have middle or lower class background, or ROTC or food service jobs or agricultural work. Real world experience. I'm dating myself but a kid came in from Harvard with Subway Certified Sandwich Artist on his resume and it really did make a difference to me.

I know that's your schtick and the way you think you're doing it. But it's biased and as a psychologist I think there's something more going on. Just my 2c.

Many people get insecure when they see that Ivy degree.

I also think the poster you’re responding to wants poorer kids she can boss around.

Yep "they're hungry and realistic" = "they will be happy with the scraps I give them"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I reject Ivy leaguers from jobs all day. My favorite hires are usually state school honors program kids. Bright, realistic, and hungry!

This is who our hiring panels favor as well. The Ivies are almost disadvantaged at our firm.

When I hear this I think people just want to hire people they can boss around more.

No, not at all. In fact we want someone with a backbone. I will hire Ivy kids if I see they have middle or lower class background, or ROTC or food service jobs or agricultural work. Real world experience. I'm dating myself but a kid came in from Harvard with Subway Certified Sandwich Artist on his resume and it really did make a difference to me.

I know that's your schtick and the way you think you're doing it. But it's biased and as a psychologist I think there's something more going on. Just my 2c.

Many people get insecure when they see that Ivy degree.

I also think the poster you’re responding to wants poorer kids she can boss around.

Yep "they're hungry and realistic" = "they will be happy with the scraps I give them"

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I reject Ivy leaguers from jobs all day. My favorite hires are usually state school honors program kids. Bright, realistic, and hungry!

This is who our hiring panels favor as well. The Ivies are almost disadvantaged at our firm.

We are a 6B investment firm and we are the same way. Very little ivy leaguers. Too rigid and sometimes lack the social awareness our job entails.

Mmm-hmm.

Do you not agree? Many Ivy Leaguers are brilliant but they can be a bit too "bookish" and lack good interpersonal skills. Just because someone is brilliant doesn't mean they will do well in a specific role..takes more than brains sometimes.

[Anonymous]

The big divide occurs when one spouse decides to be stay at home. Not judging one way or another but having two professional incomes and being smart with money is almost a guarantee to have a funded retirement.

My mom was a stay at home spouse and if she made half what my dad made, they would probably have double the assets -- another large 401(k), the compounding effect of reinvestment, etc. Even if child care costs are expensive, it often times make sense to keep working if you value financial freedom down the road.

If you have a couple, one making 250k and the other 125k, losing that 125k will set them back. They will still live a great life but all the additional savings is wiped away. That will be millions saved/invested over a career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you can't see on the surface is which people are in soul-killing jobs, whether they are paid well or not.

Totally agree - my DH works 70ish hours a week and makes $550K a year. BUT all he does is work or hang out with the kids/me. He rarely has any time for friends or hobbies.

On the other hand we have friends who have no kids and are constantly traveling, going to concerts, out to dinner, etc. They are the same age as us and probably make $200K HHI?

Maybe this is more a product of having kids than HHI though.

On the other hand, I make a lot less than your husband and work about 55 hours a week and also don't have time to do much except work or hang out with my family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so much money, but it doesn’t set off any jealousy in me at all. We earn 250k, split right down the middle between DH and myself, and we have ample time. With our kids, with each other, with friends, with our aging parents. We own our house, have short commutes, will be able to retire and never live in poverty. Why do people contort their lives for vast amounts of money and then sacrifice the things that make life good?

Because you don’t always have to contort yourself. My DH works in tech. 100% remote since before the pandemic. Typically works about 4-5 hours a day and makes 750k. Add in a couple big stock grants, which is how we paid off debt and built wealth.

I don’t work. We have a ton of free time. I’d wager much more so than people like you.

Finally someone in this forum admits that work ethic is not synonymous with wealth.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As long as you're happy and have a fulfilling career, so what?

That's exactly what I thought at 25, but I didn't realize how much of a difference income makes on every area of your life. Where you can live, where your kids go to school, when or if you can ever retire, if you can travel, if you can afford certain types of healthcare, how you live, the security you feel, the security you can offer your family (parents or children), etc.

It never ends.

So true. When you're on the outside looking in it matters a lot. I started out in nonprofits after college barely making $30K and now, one grad degree and nearly 12 years later, I work in tech and make $250K...My husband makes $350K and he also started out making around $30K. It matters.

It’s also true that while some people push the idea of “don’t go to college, learn a trade instead,” the tradesperson tends to top out a lot lower as their career goes on.

Unless you end up owning the trade business. If you run your own roofing company, plumbing company etc there is no “top.” My friend’s dad was a plumber who owned a plumbing company with other employees and contracts with big businesses. They did well, kids in private school etc.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think this is true. Early start is key. Focus on careers that help you establish yourself and are the best /most profitable match for your skill set.

We both went to a top 15 school - met after college through friends - big law/finance dual income in 20s and 30s. By mid 40s, we are senior in our respective careers with hhi of $4-7m per year.
Money is a non issue in our life.
Time is a more valuable commodity.

This is so much money, but it doesn’t set off any jealousy in me at all. We earn 250k, split right down the middle between DH and myself, and we have ample time. With our kids, with each other, with friends, with our aging parents. We own our house, have short commutes, will be able to retire and never live in poverty. Why do people contort their lives for vast amounts of money and then sacrifice the things that make life good?

DP. Because they are likely more professionally ambitious than you.. It’s like the kid that wanted an A in every class (and put in the time to do it) vs the kid who was fine with a B (and more free time). Different strokes for different folks.

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This would follow if ambition and professional achievement were tied directly to financial gain. But the most respected, successful journalists, educators, scientists will not be earning as much as the middle band of people in finance or corporate law or whatever. You can take your career very seriously and never see that reflected in your income. Unless by “professionally ambitious” you mean “motivated by money.”

exactly!!!

I have a cousin who went to elite school, phd, academically and professionally published civil engineer and she only has an income of 250k. She is a professor.

her husband is a software engineer. Yes they made mid six figures but they will never make over 1 million a year.

Ummm she is making really good money

Most professors make less than $100k.

Not in law or STEM.

Plenty of S/M profs make less than 100K. Econ/B-School/Engineering/CS/Law all start over 100K though (some are nearer 200K starting wages). For example a UMD assistant econ prof gets about 180K comp (including summer) in the first year.

Are you sure about that? I graduated UMD in the early 2000s, and was shocked that one of my professors (tenured) was making only about 70k when I looked him up in the public db. He was probably the best professor I had during my time there, and he was a highly accredited and awarded mathematician. Was not fresh to teaching at UMD either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As one of people who chose a lower paying career, I can say that

(1) yes, this divide exists, but it is up to you to decide how much you care. Do I care that I drive a Toyota while one of my best friends drives a Maserati? I do not. Do I care that he goes to Vail and Paris and Hawaii, while I go to Whitetop, and Boston and Rehoboth? I do not.

(2) People can be rich and not be jerks - my rich friends are generally great people, and don't flaunt their wealth or act like they are better than me because of their wealth.

(3) Wealth cannot buy respect - and my rich friends respect the decisions I've made and the way I live my life.

Very true.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t read every page of this thread, but when I worked part time, some of my full time colleagues resented me because I could afford to spend more time with my kids (or so they assumed). I got a lot of digs about my “wealth” and even some competitive remarks like, “I choose to work full time even though I don’t have to, because I am more invested in my work than you are.” They would never ask me questions about my life at all, and they were mean and didn’t welcome me or really even give me a chance. If they had asked, they would have learned that I was only part time there because that was all that was available at the time, and I was hoping to break into that field. These coworkers had manufactured the wealth divide in their own minds, as I actually supplemented my income by working part time somewhere else. I didn’t advertise that, however, because I realized pretty quickly that it was actually a very handy way to see people’s true colors. I did eventually get the full time job I wanted in that same field, but I didn’t keep in touch with the old coworkers who judged and dismissed me. To their detriment, I might add. I’m now in a position to help them advance their careers. I recognize that jealousy is a human emotion, but I try to be happy for everyone, regardless of their wealth or opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read every page of this thread, but when I worked part time, some of my full time colleagues resented me because I could afford to spend more time with my kids (or so they assumed). I got a lot of digs about my “wealth” and even some competitive remarks like, “I choose to work full time even though I don’t have to, because I am more invested in my work than you are.” They would never ask me questions about my life at all, and they were mean and didn’t welcome me or really even give me a chance. If they had asked, they would have learned that I was only part time there because that was all that was available at the time, and I was hoping to break into that field. These coworkers had manufactured the wealth divide in their own minds, as I actually supplemented my income by working part time somewhere else. I didn’t advertise that, however, because I realized pretty quickly that it was actually a very handy way to see people’s true colors. I did eventually get the full time job I wanted in that same field, but I didn’t keep in touch with the old coworkers who judged and dismissed me. To their detriment, I might add. I’m now in a position to help them advance their careers. I recognize that jealousy is a human emotion, but I try to be happy for everyone, regardless of their wealth or opportunity.

True. Envy is more rampant than I realized.