December 17 - TJ decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My impression is that 1.5% seats would be set aside. If only 5 of the 6 students accepted the spot, student #7 would get an offer.

So a Mt Vernon kid would be offered a spot even if he wasn’t the original top 1.5%.

How would the top 1.5% be even chosen. I bet a lot of those kids are not interested in or it would be challenging to commute.

It would be a Whitman kid who had chosen to apply to TJ and had been evaluated under a holistic approach. The admissions officers would have determined “this is a kid we think would be a really great fit for TJ because X” (which could include demonstrated aptitude for STEM despite economic hardship, etc). If the kid turned down the offer, they’d keep looking, but the kid would have already shown enough interest to apply. The 1.5% wouldn’t have been plucked out of thin air without their consent.

FCPS wants to create a greater nfrastructure to send the message to URMs that “you belong at TJ,” you should apply to TJ, we will support you at TJ, and you will succeed at TJ. The entire project is about FCPS being able to hold out URMs and low-income kids at TJ to the world as evidence of how great FCPS is, and then hope students throughout FCPS will be inspired by their example.

In a way, it’s laudable, but it makes FCPS even more TJ-centric, and for years to come TJ will probably end up taking up an even more disproportionate share of FCPS time and attention than it already does. Those who disagree with this approach would rather see FCPS focus more of its resources on strengthening STEM education across the board, including at the elementary and middle schools with more URMs. Others will be annoyed by how much attention FCPS pays to TJ and the URMs there compared to their own kids and schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a special needs child who tried for years to get accommodation for my child (granted MCPS but similar in neglect of Spec Ed kids to FCPS), if you ‘smarties’ game the TJ system to get a ‘fake’ IEP/504 for your kids to enter TJ than you REALLY are superior. Sign me up for your class! Otherwise, stop the yap.

I don’t think anyone would stoop this low. Pretty sure the SB is trying to get black and Hispanics into TJ.

(!) This claim about racial diversity is disputed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My impression is that 1.5% seats would be set aside. If only 5 of the 6 students accepted the spot, student #7 would get an offer.

So a Mt Vernon kid would be offered a spot even if he wasn’t the original top 1.5%.

How would the top 1.5% be even chosen. I bet a lot of those kids are not interested in or it would be challenging to commute.

It would be a Whitman kid who had chosen to apply to TJ and had been evaluated under a holistic approach. The admissions officers would have determined “this is a kid we think would be a really great fit for TJ because X” (which could include demonstrated aptitude for STEM despite economic hardship, etc). If the kid turned down the offer, they’d keep looking, but the kid would have already shown enough interest to apply. The 1.5% wouldn’t have been plucked out of thin air without their consent.

FCPS wants to create a greater nfrastructure to send the message to URMs that “you belong at TJ,” you should apply to TJ, we will support you at TJ, and you will succeed at TJ. The entire project is about FCPS being able to hold out URMs and low-income kids at TJ to the world as evidence of how great FCPS is, and then hope students throughout FCPS will be inspired by their example.

In a way, it’s laudable, but it makes FCPS even more TJ-centric, and for years to come TJ will probably end up taking up an even more disproportionate share of FCPS time and attention than it already does. Those who disagree with this approach would rather see FCPS focus more of its resources on strengthening STEM education across the board, including at the elementary and middle schools with more URMs. Others will be annoyed by how much attention FCPS pays to TJ and the URMs there compared to their own kids and schools.

This is a really good thought. I hope that you expand on this and get it published somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My impression is that 1.5% seats would be set aside. If only 5 of the 6 students accepted the spot, student #7 would get an offer.

So a Mt Vernon kid would be offered a spot even if he wasn’t the original top 1.5%.

How would the top 1.5% be even chosen. I bet a lot of those kids are not interested in or it would be challenging to commute.

It would be a Whitman kid who had chosen to apply to TJ and had been evaluated under a holistic approach. The admissions officers would have determined “this is a kid we think would be a really great fit for TJ because X” (which could include demonstrated aptitude for STEM despite economic hardship, etc). If the kid turned down the offer, they’d keep looking, but the kid would have already shown enough interest to apply. The 1.5% wouldn’t have been plucked out of thin air without their consent.

FCPS wants to create a greater nfrastructure to send the message to URMs that “you belong at TJ,” you should apply to TJ, we will support you at TJ, and you will succeed at TJ. The entire project is about FCPS being able to hold out URMs and low-income kids at TJ to the world as evidence of how great FCPS is, and then hope students throughout FCPS will be inspired by their example.

In a way, it’s laudable, but it makes FCPS even more TJ-centric, and for years to come TJ will probably end up taking up an even more disproportionate share of FCPS time and attention than it already does. Those who disagree with this approach would rather see FCPS focus more of its resources on strengthening STEM education across the board, including at the elementary and middle schools with more URMs. Others will be annoyed by how much attention FCPS pays to TJ and the URMs there compared to their own kids and schools.

This is a really good thought. I hope that you expand on this and get it published somewhere.

Dinesh D’Souza wrote an entire book about this phenomena in the early 1990s and why a top down approach does not work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My impression is that 1.5% seats would be set aside. If only 5 of the 6 students accepted the spot, student #7 would get an offer.

So a Mt Vernon kid would be offered a spot even if he wasn’t the original top 1.5%.

How would the top 1.5% be even chosen. I bet a lot of those kids are not interested in or it would be challenging to commute.

It would be a Whitman kid who had chosen to apply to TJ and had been evaluated under a holistic approach. The admissions officers would have determined “this is a kid we think would be a really great fit for TJ because X” (which could include demonstrated aptitude for STEM despite economic hardship, etc). If the kid turned down the offer, they’d keep looking, but the kid would have already shown enough interest to apply. The 1.5% wouldn’t have been plucked out of thin air without their consent.

FCPS wants to create a greater nfrastructure to send the message to URMs that “you belong at TJ,” you should apply to TJ, we will support you at TJ, and you will succeed at TJ. The entire project is about FCPS being able to hold out URMs and low-income kids at TJ to the world as evidence of how great FCPS is, and then hope students throughout FCPS will be inspired by their example.

In a way, it’s laudable, but it makes FCPS even more TJ-centric, and for years to come TJ will probably end up taking up an even more disproportionate share of FCPS time and attention than it already does. Those who disagree with this approach would rather see FCPS focus more of its resources on strengthening STEM education across the board, including at the elementary and middle schools with more URMs. Others will be annoyed by how much attention FCPS pays to TJ and the URMs there compared to their own kids and schools.

This is a really good thought. I hope that you expand on this and get it published somewhere.

Dinesh D’Souza wrote an entire book about this phenomena in the early 1990s and why a top down approach does not work.

It seems to be working at Harvard and Yale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems super simple to game.

- get an IEP/504. I’m sure there are educational advocates/psychologists that can with this.
- pupil place at one of the low yield schools for 8th grade. You don’t even need to move I guess.
- take a prep class for the SIS essay. Bonus - Use that IEP/504 for extended time

Done.

You have no clue how hard it is to get an IEP or a 504 plan. Absolutely no clue. It is not an easy process. You have to show an academic impact on the child in order to qualify for an IEP, which means that you need to have a kid who is in danger of failing a grade, so not something you want to do in 8th grade if you are trying to get into TJ. Not to mention the testing that is conducted by the school that the school falls back on. Or the meeting every three years to evaluate if the accommodations. Or the three year review with new testing to keep an IEP.

504 plans are almost as hard to get.

Are you serious????? IEP and 504 plans are not difficult to obtain. Time-consuming, perhaps. But not difficult. Psychologists are standing by to "copy and paste" profiles to magically produce whatever is needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My impression is that 1.5% seats would be set aside. If only 5 of the 6 students accepted the spot, student #7 would get an offer.

So a Mt Vernon kid would be offered a spot even if he wasn’t the original top 1.5%.

How would the top 1.5% be even chosen. I bet a lot of those kids are not interested in or it would be challenging to commute.

It would be a Whitman kid who had chosen to apply to TJ and had been evaluated under a holistic approach. The admissions officers would have determined “this is a kid we think would be a really great fit for TJ because X” (which could include demonstrated aptitude for STEM despite economic hardship, etc). If the kid turned down the offer, they’d keep looking, but the kid would have already shown enough interest to apply. The 1.5% wouldn’t have been plucked out of thin air without their consent.

FCPS wants to create a greater nfrastructure to send the message to URMs that “you belong at TJ,” you should apply to TJ, we will support you at TJ, and you will succeed at TJ. The entire project is about FCPS being able to hold out URMs and low-income kids at TJ to the world as evidence of how great FCPS is, and then hope students throughout FCPS will be inspired by their example.

In a way, it’s laudable, but it makes FCPS even more TJ-centric, and for years to come TJ will probably end up taking up an even more disproportionate share of FCPS time and attention than it already does. Those who disagree with this approach would rather see FCPS focus more of its resources on strengthening STEM education across the board, including at the elementary and middle schools with more URMs. Others will be annoyed by how much attention FCPS pays to TJ and the URMs there compared to their own kids and schools.

This is a really good thought. I hope that you expand on this and get it published somewhere.

Dinesh D’Souza wrote an entire book about this phenomena in the early 1990s and why a top down approach does not work.

It seems to be working at Harvard and Yale.

Geographic minimums makes sense to me for a public school. We do it in sports - each school gets to send its best to the county championships even if they would be slower than the slowest kid on a different schools team. Equal access doesn’t result in equal outcome, but they should get to participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My impression is that 1.5% seats would be set aside. If only 5 of the 6 students accepted the spot, student #7 would get an offer.

So a Mt Vernon kid would be offered a spot even if he wasn’t the original top 1.5%.

How would the top 1.5% be even chosen. I bet a lot of those kids are not interested in or it would be challenging to commute.

It would be a Whitman kid who had chosen to apply to TJ and had been evaluated under a holistic approach. The admissions officers would have determined “this is a kid we think would be a really great fit for TJ because X” (which could include demonstrated aptitude for STEM despite economic hardship, etc). If the kid turned down the offer, they’d keep looking, but the kid would have already shown enough interest to apply. The 1.5% wouldn’t have been plucked out of thin air without their consent.

FCPS wants to create a greater nfrastructure to send the message to URMs that “you belong at TJ,” you should apply to TJ, we will support you at TJ, and you will succeed at TJ. The entire project is about FCPS being able to hold out URMs and low-income kids at TJ to the world as evidence of how great FCPS is, and then hope students throughout FCPS will be inspired by their example.

In a way, it’s laudable, but it makes FCPS even more TJ-centric, and for years to come TJ will probably end up taking up an even more disproportionate share of FCPS time and attention than it already does. Those who disagree with this approach would rather see FCPS focus more of its resources on strengthening STEM education across the board, including at the elementary and middle schools with more URMs. Others will be annoyed by how much attention FCPS pays to TJ and the URMs there compared to their own kids and schools.

This is a really good thought. I hope that you expand on this and get it published somewhere.

Dinesh D’Souza wrote an entire book about this phenomena in the early 1990s and why a top down approach does not work.

It seems to be working at Harvard and Yale.

It doesn’t happen overnight and Harvard and Yale are private, independent universities, not one public school in a system with 198 schools.

[Anonymous]

It’s a governor’s school with specific regulatory requirements to serve advanced or gifted students who have specific academic needs. It is not just a regular public school.

[Anonymous]

At the end of the day only 3% of FCPS high school students will attend TJ. FCPS is committing to an awful lot of additional process to make sure the “right” (qualified yet diverse) kids end up there - they will have need an expanded admissions office with legal counsel watching their every move - while other high and secondary schools are largely ignored or left to function on auto-pilot.

It is a very large investment in “redefining merit.” They run a significant risk that, as more UMC families grow dissatisfied with FCPS’s priorities, they’ll just leave for less stressful - and stressed - systems such as APS and LCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day only 3% of FCPS high school students will attend TJ. FCPS is committing to an awful lot of additional process to make sure the “right” (qualified yet diverse) kids end up there - they will have need an expanded admissions office with legal counsel watching their every move - while other high and secondary schools are largely ignored or left to function on auto-pilot.

It is a very large investment in “redefining merit.” They run a significant risk that, as more UMC families grow dissatisfied with FCPS’s priorities, they’ll just leave for less stressful - and stressed - systems such as APS and LCPS.

This is why TJ should just be closed and changed to an academy. There are almost NO CLASSES taken during freshman or sophomore year that aren’t offered at the base high schools.

[Anonymous]

New to this thread and TJ in general. Question - was the issue that black and latino students couldn't get in like in New York or didn't want to go? I guess I'm trying to understand - are certain minority groups not applying or applying and not getting in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day only 3% of FCPS high school students will attend TJ. FCPS is committing to an awful lot of additional process to make sure the “right” (qualified yet diverse) kids end up there - they will have need an expanded admissions office with legal counsel watching their every move - while other high and secondary schools are largely ignored or left to function on auto-pilot.

It is a very large investment in “redefining merit.” They run a significant risk that, as more UMC families grow dissatisfied with FCPS’s priorities, they’ll just leave for less stressful - and stressed - systems such as APS and LCPS.

This is why TJ should just be closed and changed to an academy. There are almost NO CLASSES taken during freshman or sophomore year that aren’t offered at the base high schools.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure they are more challenging and deeper than their base school counterpart. Otherwise almost all the TJ kids would be bored and yawning in them. And if there was no TJ, these same kids would be bored and yawning at their local high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New to this thread and TJ in general. Question - was the issue that black and latino students couldn't get in like in New York or didn't want to go? I guess I'm trying to understand - are certain minority groups not applying or applying and not getting in?

Overtime it's led to both. The admissions test weeded out 2/3 of applicants and left a large Asian dominated applicant pool that some claim was based in part on the means to prep for the test and game the system. As the student body become predominantly Asian over the years, the anecdotal evidence is that high achieving white, black, and Hispanic students stopped applying and stayed with their peers at their base schools because they felt they didn't fit into the culture. Not sure if any of that is true beyond the school being predominantly Asian at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New to this thread and TJ in general. Question - was the issue that black and latino students couldn't get in like in New York or didn't want to go? I guess I'm trying to understand - are certain minority groups not applying or applying and not getting in?

Overtime it's led to both. The admissions test weeded out 2/3 of applicants and left a large Asian dominated applicant pool that some claim was based in part on the means to prep for the test and game the system. As the student body become predominantly Asian over the years, the anecdotal evidence is that high achieving white, black, and Hispanic students stopped applying and stayed with their peers at their base schools because they felt they didn't fit into the culture. Not sure if any of that is true beyond the school being predominantly Asian at this point.

Yes lack of diversity is a problem, but can they actually succeed by forcing diversity onto the school? Look at math and science Phd's; predominantly Asian and white.