Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change

[Anonymous]

Disgusting. TJ is beyond saving at this point The magnet program that has encouraged such cheating should be shut down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t wrap my head around how some parents are arguing that this was not cheating. Their kids had access to what would be on the test. Every other child (prepped or not) did not. The Curie students had an unfair advantage due to the test bank and it showed in the admissions numbers. (28% of the class of 2024 - jaw dropping)

It’s completely foreign to me that someone could view this as okay.

What? They had no way of knowing what would be on the test.

They have said that they saw the questions during their prep classes at Curie. I believe the students when they say they had no idea that Curie was cheating, and I also believe them when they say that they saw test questions before the test.

Do we know for sure whether Curie students saw "exact same" questions at Curie before the TJ test, or similar questions?

The kids sure seem to know for sure. I doubt that the kids were given a copy of the test, or even that Curie was given a copy of the test.

What has been reported on TJ Vents is that students took the test back in 2017 - the first time it was administered for the Class of 2022 (which dropped from 75% Asian to 65% Asian and raised URM from 3% to 9%) - then came back to Curie with questions memorized. The exam consists of 28 math puzzles, so it's not hard to believe that the questions would be memorable. This is the part that is considered to be cheating because the Quant-Q is supposed to be secure. Anyone who sees the test, proctor or student, is required to sign a statement promising not to discuss any of its content - something that does not happen with nearly any other standardized exam.

Students come to Curie, who has both the questions from the 2022 exam and a bank of questions that they have developed that are similar to show the techniques needed to solve each type of problem quickly and efficiently. The students coming in likely have no idea that Curie is working off of materials that they aren't supposed to have, and no one knows who provided it to them except for them, as it's possible that the students who brought the questions back didn't even get into TJ.

2023 and 2024 students go to take the Quant-Q, and realize "Wow, I've seen this question before!" and subsequently create a huge imbalance in the admissions process - because TJ applicants are selected for the semifinal round based on a national percentile, not a raw score. These students then go on to tell their friends that they had seen the questions before, and it makes it on to TJ Vents - which initially redacts the name of the company and its leader but both are posted in the comments.

PP, who are you to know all these development in such details? Are you a parent of a kid in TJ so you have followed TJ Vents? Are you are student/alumni who follow TJ Vents? Why are you so invested in the process? My kid did not go through Curie to get into TJ, so I am not here to defend Curie. I just hate to see all TJ kids are referred to as cheaters without any considerations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t wrap my head around how some parents are arguing that this was not cheating. Their kids had access to what would be on the test. Every other child (prepped or not) did not. The Curie students had an unfair advantage due to the test bank and it showed in the admissions numbers. (28% of the class of 2024 - jaw dropping)

It’s completely foreign to me that someone could view this as okay.

What? They had no way of knowing what would be on the test.

They have said that they saw the questions during their prep classes at Curie. I believe the students when they say they had no idea that Curie was cheating, and I also believe them when they say that they saw test questions before the test.

Do we know for sure whether Curie students saw "exact same" questions at Curie before the TJ test, or similar questions?

The kids sure seem to know for sure. I doubt that the kids were given a copy of the test, or even that Curie was given a copy of the test.

What has been reported on TJ Vents is that students took the test back in 2017 - the first time it was administered for the Class of 2022 (which dropped from 75% Asian to 65% Asian and raised URM from 3% to 9%) - then came back to Curie with questions memorized. The exam consists of 28 math puzzles, so it's not hard to believe that the questions would be memorable. This is the part that is considered to be cheating because the Quant-Q is supposed to be secure. Anyone who sees the test, proctor or student, is required to sign a statement promising not to discuss any of its content - something that does not happen with nearly any other standardized exam.

Students come to Curie, who has both the questions from the 2022 exam and a bank of questions that they have developed that are similar to show the techniques needed to solve each type of problem quickly and efficiently. The students coming in likely have no idea that Curie is working off of materials that they aren't supposed to have, and no one knows who provided it to them except for them, as it's possible that the students who brought the questions back didn't even get into TJ.

2023 and 2024 students go to take the Quant-Q, and realize "Wow, I've seen this question before!" and subsequently create a huge imbalance in the admissions process - because TJ applicants are selected for the semifinal round based on a national percentile, not a raw score. These students then go on to tell their friends that they had seen the questions before, and it makes it on to TJ Vents - which initially redacts the name of the company and its leader but both are posted in the comments.

PP, who are you to know all these development in such details? Are you a parent of a kid in TJ so you have followed TJ Vents? Are you are student/alumni who follow TJ Vents? Why are you so invested in the process? My kid did not go through Curie to get into TJ, so I am not here to defend Curie. I just hate to see all TJ kids are referred to as cheaters without any considerations.

Not IDing myself on an anonymous forum. And by no means are all TJ kids cheaters. I think if you actually read my post you'll see that I don't really blame the Curie kids who got into TJ for all of this. If anything, the kids who have come out and said something about it are incredibly brave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t wrap my head around how some parents are arguing that this was not cheating. Their kids had access to what would be on the test. Every other child (prepped or not) did not. The Curie students had an unfair advantage due to the test bank and it showed in the admissions numbers. (28% of the class of 2024 - jaw dropping)

It’s completely foreign to me that someone could view this as okay.

What? They had no way of knowing what would be on the test.

They have said that they saw the questions during their prep classes at Curie. I believe the students when they say they had no idea that Curie was cheating, and I also believe them when they say that they saw test questions before the test.

Do we know for sure whether Curie students saw "exact same" questions at Curie before the TJ test, or similar questions?

The kids sure seem to know for sure. I doubt that the kids were given a copy of the test, or even that Curie was given a copy of the test.

What has been reported on TJ Vents is that students took the test back in 2017 - the first time it was administered for the Class of 2022 (which dropped from 75% Asian to 65% Asian and raised URM from 3% to 9%) - then came back to Curie with questions memorized. The exam consists of 28 math puzzles, so it's not hard to believe that the questions would be memorable. This is the part that is considered to be cheating because the Quant-Q is supposed to be secure. Anyone who sees the test, proctor or student, is required to sign a statement promising not to discuss any of its content - something that does not happen with nearly any other standardized exam.

Students come to Curie, who has both the questions from the 2022 exam and a bank of questions that they have developed that are similar to show the techniques needed to solve each type of problem quickly and efficiently. The students coming in likely have no idea that Curie is working off of materials that they aren't supposed to have, and no one knows who provided it to them except for them, as it's possible that the students who brought the questions back didn't even get into TJ.

2023 and 2024 students go to take the Quant-Q, and realize "Wow, I've seen this question before!" and subsequently create a huge imbalance in the admissions process - because TJ applicants are selected for the semifinal round based on a national percentile, not a raw score. These students then go on to tell their friends that they had seen the questions before, and it makes it on to TJ Vents - which initially redacts the name of the company and its leader but both are posted in the comments.

PP, who are you to know all these development in such details? Are you a parent of a kid in TJ so you have followed TJ Vents? Are you are student/alumni who follow TJ Vents? Why are you so invested in the process? My kid did not go through Curie to get into TJ, so I am not here to defend Curie. I just hate to see all TJ kids are referred to as cheaters without any considerations.

DP. Its not too hard to piece all this together if youve been paying attention the last month or so. The simplest explanation is usually right.

[Anonymous]

I’m from over on the MCPS board, and I’ve been saying for years that this is what all the semi-legal prepping would lead to.... a lottery. I actually think it’s awesome. If you try to bend the rules in your favor, the district can just change the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m from over on the MCPS board, and I’ve been saying for years that this is what all the semi-legal prepping would lead to.... a lottery. I actually think it’s awesome. If you try to bend the rules in your favor, the district can just change the rules.

+1

Absolutely. What did they THINK would happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t wrap my head around how some parents are arguing that this was not cheating. Their kids had access to what would be on the test. Every other child (prepped or not) did not. The Curie students had an unfair advantage due to the test bank and it showed in the admissions numbers. (28% of the class of 2024 - jaw dropping)

It’s completely foreign to me that someone could view this as okay.

What? They had no way of knowing what would be on the test.

They have said that they saw the questions during their prep classes at Curie. I believe the students when they say they had no idea that Curie was cheating, and I also believe them when they say that they saw test questions before the test.

Do we know for sure whether Curie students saw "exact same" questions at Curie before the TJ test, or similar questions?

The kids sure seem to know for sure. I doubt that the kids were given a copy of the test, or even that Curie was given a copy of the test.

What has been reported on TJ Vents is that students took the test back in 2017 - the first time it was administered for the Class of 2022 (which dropped from 75% Asian to 65% Asian and raised URM from 3% to 9%) - then came back to Curie with questions memorized. The exam consists of 28 math puzzles, so it's not hard to believe that the questions would be memorable. This is the part that is considered to be cheating because the Quant-Q is supposed to be secure. Anyone who sees the test, proctor or student, is required to sign a statement promising not to discuss any of its content - something that does not happen with nearly any other standardized exam.

Students come to Curie, who has both the questions from the 2022 exam and a bank of questions that they have developed that are similar to show the techniques needed to solve each type of problem quickly and efficiently. The students coming in likely have no idea that Curie is working off of materials that they aren't supposed to have, and no one knows who provided it to them except for them, as it's possible that the students who brought the questions back didn't even get into TJ.

2023 and 2024 students go to take the Quant-Q, and realize "Wow, I've seen this question before!" and subsequently create a huge imbalance in the admissions process - because TJ applicants are selected for the semifinal round based on a national percentile, not a raw score. These students then go on to tell their friends that they had seen the questions before, and it makes it on to TJ Vents - which initially redacts the name of the company and its leader but both are posted in the comments.

PP, who are you to know all these development in such details? Are you a parent of a kid in TJ so you have followed TJ Vents? Are you are student/alumni who follow TJ Vents? Why are you so invested in the process? My kid did not go through Curie to get into TJ, so I am not here to defend Curie. I just hate to see all TJ kids are referred to as cheaters without any considerations.

DP. Its not too hard to piece all this together if youve been paying attention the last month or so. The simplest explanation is usually right.

In other words, all based on anonymous sources without verifiable or first hand information, and didn't take into account the tendency of exaggeration or outright misleading statements in these boards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t wrap my head around how some parents are arguing that this was not cheating. Their kids had access to what would be on the test. Every other child (prepped or not) did not. The Curie students had an unfair advantage due to the test bank and it showed in the admissions numbers. (28% of the class of 2024 - jaw dropping)

It’s completely foreign to me that someone could view this as okay.

What? They had no way of knowing what would be on the test.

They have said that they saw the questions during their prep classes at Curie. I believe the students when they say they had no idea that Curie was cheating, and I also believe them when they say that they saw test questions before the test.

Do we know for sure whether Curie students saw "exact same" questions at Curie before the TJ test, or similar questions?

The kids sure seem to know for sure. I doubt that the kids were given a copy of the test, or even that Curie was given a copy of the test.

What has been reported on TJ Vents is that students took the test back in 2017 - the first time it was administered for the Class of 2022 (which dropped from 75% Asian to 65% Asian and raised URM from 3% to 9%) - then came back to Curie with questions memorized. The exam consists of 28 math puzzles, so it's not hard to believe that the questions would be memorable. This is the part that is considered to be cheating because the Quant-Q is supposed to be secure. Anyone who sees the test, proctor or student, is required to sign a statement promising not to discuss any of its content - something that does not happen with nearly any other standardized exam.

Students come to Curie, who has both the questions from the 2022 exam and a bank of questions that they have developed that are similar to show the techniques needed to solve each type of problem quickly and efficiently. The students coming in likely have no idea that Curie is working off of materials that they aren't supposed to have, and no one knows who provided it to them except for them, as it's possible that the students who brought the questions back didn't even get into TJ.

2023 and 2024 students go to take the Quant-Q, and realize "Wow, I've seen this question before!" and subsequently create a huge imbalance in the admissions process - because TJ applicants are selected for the semifinal round based on a national percentile, not a raw score. These students then go on to tell their friends that they had seen the questions before, and it makes it on to TJ Vents - which initially redacts the name of the company and its leader but both are posted in the comments.

Good heavens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t wrap my head around how some parents are arguing that this was not cheating. Their kids had access to what would be on the test. Every other child (prepped or not) did not. The Curie students had an unfair advantage due to the test bank and it showed in the admissions numbers. (28% of the class of 2024 - jaw dropping)

It’s completely foreign to me that someone could view this as okay.

What? They had no way of knowing what would be on the test.

They have said that they saw the questions during their prep classes at Curie. I believe the students when they say they had no idea that Curie was cheating, and I also believe them when they say that they saw test questions before the test.

Do we know for sure whether Curie students saw "exact same" questions at Curie before the TJ test, or similar questions?

The kids sure seem to know for sure. I doubt that the kids were given a copy of the test, or even that Curie was given a copy of the test.

What has been reported on TJ Vents is that students took the test back in 2017 - the first time it was administered for the Class of 2022 (which dropped from 75% Asian to 65% Asian and raised URM from 3% to 9%) - then came back to Curie with questions memorized. The exam consists of 28 math puzzles, so it's not hard to believe that the questions would be memorable. This is the part that is considered to be cheating because the Quant-Q is supposed to be secure. Anyone who sees the test, proctor or student, is required to sign a statement promising not to discuss any of its content - something that does not happen with nearly any other standardized exam.

Students come to Curie, who has both the questions from the 2022 exam and a bank of questions that they have developed that are similar to show the techniques needed to solve each type of problem quickly and efficiently. The students coming in likely have no idea that Curie is working off of materials that they aren't supposed to have, and no one knows who provided it to them except for them, as it's possible that the students who brought the questions back didn't even get into TJ.

2023 and 2024 students go to take the Quant-Q, and realize "Wow, I've seen this question before!" and subsequently create a huge imbalance in the admissions process - because TJ applicants are selected for the semifinal round based on a national percentile, not a raw score. These students then go on to tell their friends that they had seen the questions before, and it makes it on to TJ Vents - which initially redacts the name of the company and its leader but both are posted in the comments.

So TJ reused the same questions again and again? It's hard to believe as this will benefit younger siblings. If this is true, I expected higher percentage of younger siblings in TJ.

[Anonymous]

So, after 15 pages, there is no single evidence that there was systematic cheating.

The only concrete allegation is that a Currie Prep used previous test problems from TJ. And, unbelievably, TJ reused these same problems year after year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, after 15 pages, there is no single evidence that there was systematic cheating.

The only concrete allegation is that a Currie Prep used previous test problems from TJ. And, unbelievably, TJ reused these same problems year after year.

Two questions:

How did they get 28% of the class of 2024? As I’m sure you know, the prep industry is incredibly robust and competitive in NVa. For a long term company to jump from 51 in 2022 to 133 in 2024 is hard to believe it was all “hard work” and “merit”.

Why would multiple current TJ students state that the prep company gave them the Quant Q ahead of time?

[Anonymous]

I have heard the same from mytjprep students that they had seen the math questions.

How can TJ be so stupid to repeat the same questions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t wrap my head around how some parents are arguing that this was not cheating. Their kids had access to what would be on the test. Every other child (prepped or not) did not. The Curie students had an unfair advantage due to the test bank and it showed in the admissions numbers. (28% of the class of 2024 - jaw dropping)

It’s completely foreign to me that someone could view this as okay.

They are ruthless climbers who abandon dignity and will say or do anything and stab anyone in the back to collect status badges and money.

[Anonymous]

The Quant Q was supposed to be secure. FCPS even offered a weekend prep course for the TJ exams, including the Quant Q. They didn’t know what the questions would be, I think, they just did the best they could to help the kids prep. Guessing the Curie families didn’t expect that Curie had somehow actually compromised the exam!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Quant Q was supposed to be secure. FCPS even offered a weekend prep course for the TJ exams, including the Quant Q. They didn’t know what the questions would be, I think, they just did the best they could to help the kids prep. Guessing the Curie families didn’t expect that Curie had somehow actually compromised the exam!

I was a TA in college. Test banks to collect Q&As and entire exams is a thing at every university -- typically within frat houses and Indian, Muslim, Chinese and Korean sects. Hardly a novel concept.