Admitting you are Asian (college apps)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what is a jam school?

"Just admit minorities."

[Anonymous]

You do realize this "holistic" view that Harvard and then other schools implemented was always racist. Before the 1920s admission was based on a single test. In 1926, Harvard switched to a more holistic view of its applicants. This was pushed by Abbot Lawerence, a known racist. The purpose of this change was to keep out Jews. This is when quotas began and increased anti-Semitism at the school.

They are still using this today, this time to keep out Asians.

The schools are either a meritocracy or they aren't, but they shouldn't be able to discriminate and receive federal funds.

For all the talk now about tearing down systemic racism and injustices, the "holistic" view should be one of the first things to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians are better cheaters, have richer parents, study more, get more tutors or test prep courses, go to summer jam schools who knows.

White, Blacks, Latinos and Asians are equally smart. Based admittance solely on test scores and grades is pointless as they can be manipulated

Disgusting stereotypes
Also I am not sure why studying for a test or going to a course to prepare for an important test is bad. My kid loves learning and does well in school. I expect him to work hard and to study not only to get good grades but also to learn as much as possible. This is what we have taught him from when he was little- that education is important and that one of his most important priorities should be to learn as much as he can. It is important to emphasize good study habits when they are little because they will be learning their whole lives in school and in their careers.
If my child was good at music or an athlete I would have a similar attitude- I would encourage and expect him to practice and to be as good as possible. Gifted athletes are trained, coached, attend intense training summer camps and typically get a lot of family and even community support. Nothing wrong with that.
Btw nothing is stopping anyone from “prepping “ for the SAT. Khan Academy is free. You can purchase the official College Board prep book for $15. It is also available for free in public libraries. Many public school districts offer free or very cheap SAT prep courses. A student who is motivated to attend a top 20 school would presumably be smart enough and motivated enough to find and use these resources

Here in MCPS for instance a student can pay $80 ($40 if you qualify for free and reduced lunch) for an entire year including tutoring in core subjects and SAT prep through Saturday school.

[Anonymous]

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Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

You do know that is way, way lower than the average admit, let alone the average Asian admit?

Nationwide 1400 is 99th percentile for African American SAT takers.
For Asian Americans 1400 is 79th percentile (1500 is 93rd percentile).

so what? it's 94-97th percentile for all test takers. it's a perfectly good score. college admissions isn't a SAT contest. you get a 1400 on the SAT, you're doing fine.

1400 is indeed fine but if we are talking about the elite top 20 schools they are mostly looking at the very best students 1500+

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You do realize this "holistic" view that Harvard and then other schools implemented was always racist. Before the 1920s admission was based on a single test. In 1926, Harvard switched to a more holistic view of its applicants. This was pushed by Abbot Lawerence, a known racist. The purpose of this change was to keep out Jews. This is when quotas began and increased anti-Semitism at the school.

They are still using this today, this time to keep out Asians.

The schools are either a meritocracy or they aren't, but they shouldn't be able to discriminate and receive federal funds.

For all the talk now about tearing down systemic racism and injustices, the "holistic" view should be one of the first things to go.

How long are you going to beat this dead horse?? Harvard won the lawsuit, so get over it. Holistic admissions are lawful.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

You do know that is way, way lower than the average admit, let alone the average Asian admit?

Nationwide 1400 is 99th percentile for African American SAT takers.
For Asian Americans 1400 is 79th percentile (1500 is 93rd percentile).

so what? it's 94-97th percentile for all test takers. it's a perfectly good score. college admissions isn't a SAT contest. you get a 1400 on the SAT, you're doing fine.

1400 is indeed fine but if we are talking about the elite top 20 schools they are mostly looking at the very best students 1500+

This fits in nicely with the study that shows Harvard URM’s life outcome is as good as state uni grads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize this "holistic" view that Harvard and then other schools implemented was always racist. Before the 1920s admission was based on a single test. In 1926, Harvard switched to a more holistic view of its applicants. This was pushed by Abbot Lawerence, a known racist. The purpose of this change was to keep out Jews. This is when quotas began and increased anti-Semitism at the school.

They are still using this today, this time to keep out Asians.

The schools are either a meritocracy or they aren't, but they shouldn't be able to discriminate and receive federal funds.

For all the talk now about tearing down systemic racism and injustices, the "holistic" view should be one of the first things to go.

How long are you going to beat this dead horse?? Harvard won the lawsuit, so get over it. Holistic admissions are lawful.

Yes, systemic racism has been legal since the country started. Nothing new here. Oh wait, that is what people have been protesting about. Maybe you should check your privilege and realize what it is like for minorities in this country.

[Anonymous]

If/when the Asians take over or start the big companies, they need to be very “holistic” in their hiring practices.

Make sure it’s very clear on applications that there will be higher requirements and expectations of certain races. If you make the cut, you get sprinkled in for diversity. Otherwise, bye.

[Anonymous]

I have always wondered why some almost-elite, second-rung college like Wash. U doesn't just break with the fold and ban race-based admissions and just accept tons of asian students and massively increase their SAT scores, educational prowess, etc. As part of this system they could also get rid of legacy admissions, preference for kids of professors, etc. and for that matter just make all sports club sports and just say "this is how it is, our culture is different."

Then over time they'd just become like 60-70% asian (and maybe 20-30% dorky white strivers) and all the FANG companies would still come running anyways and if anyone doesn't like it they can go to hell.

All of these schools discriminate against asians like crazy but everyone just shrugs their shoulders and goes anyways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

You do know that is way, way lower than the average admit, let alone the average Asian admit?

Nationwide 1400 is 99th percentile for African American SAT takers.
For Asian Americans 1400 is 79th percentile (1500 is 93rd percentile).

so what? it's 94-97th percentile for all test takers. it's a perfectly good score. college admissions isn't a SAT contest. you get a 1400 on the SAT, you're doing fine.

1400 is indeed fine but if we are talking about the elite top 20 schools they are mostly looking at the very best students 1500+

This fits in nicely with the study that shows Harvard URM’s life outcome is as good as state uni grads.

It would be interesting to compare the outcomes of URMSs from Harvard with white Harvard athletes who generally have SAT scores as low or lower than anyone. No one seems to think their degrees are devalued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I have always wondered why some almost-elite, second-rung college like Wash. U doesn't just break with the fold and ban race-based admissions and just accept tons of asian students and massively increase their SAT scores, educational prowess, etc. As part of this system they could also get rid of legacy admissions, preference for kids of professors, etc. and for that matter just make all sports club sports and just say "this is how it is, our culture is different."

Then over time they'd just become like 60-70% asian (and maybe 20-30% dorky white strivers) and all the FANG companies would still come running anyways and if anyone doesn't like it they can go to hell.

All of these schools discriminate against asians like crazy but everyone just shrugs their shoulders and goes anyways.

I’m pretty sure Vandy does that. They highly value 1560+ sat scores.

[Anonymous]

All the kids in college are progressive and pro-diversity....until they start applying for medical school. It's insane how bitter Asian (and by Asian I mean people with heritage from the entire continent - from India all the way to the Far East) students get about having to score a lot higher on the MCAT and also wrt their grades in school. They all know they'll be penalized for their race. I was a TA for tons of undergrads during grad school. They openly discussed the Asian penalty factor for med school admissions when they were in their most candid moments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If/when the Asians take over or start the big companies, they need to be very “holistic” in their hiring practices.

Make sure it’s very clear on applications that there will be higher requirements and expectations of certain races. If you make the cut, you get sprinkled in for diversity. Otherwise, bye.

Even being 'holistic' doesn't work. Google basically flat out said they weren't hiring/promoting and more straight white or asian men. Not sure you can make a 'cut' when a company like Google says they won't promote/hire you because of you DNA.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/youtube-hiring-for-some-positions-excluded-white-and-asian-males-lawsuit-says-1519948013

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the kids in college are progressive and pro-diversity....until they start applying for medical school. It's insane how bitter Asian (and by Asian I mean people with heritage from the entire continent - from India all the way to the Far East) students get about having to score a lot higher on the MCAT and also wrt their grades in school. They all know they'll be penalized for their race. I was a TA for tons of undergrads during grad school. They openly discussed the Asian penalty factor for med school admissions when they were in their most candid moments.

Their insane to be upset about the systemic racism that is condoned in society that they’ve had to deal with since high school. Always having to excel more than their peers to be given a chance.

Insane and bitter, huh?

They openly discussed this racism against them? How dare they, they are Asian they need to shut up and stay in their lane right? Stay quiet, don’t rock the boat and be happy to be here ( even when they might be 3 generations in).

[Anonymous]

What if you are Asian but were adopted and raised by African-American parents?

What do you put on your college appplication?