Cruise Ship Lawsuit & Today Show

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From an industrial engineering standpoint, I'm surprised a cruise ship would have open windows like that. I'm not saying that RC was responsible, per se, but hopefully this lawsuit will compel all cruise ships to design their boats with better safety in mind by accounting for the human factor. I remember in grad school, we looked at studies where the majority of people who bought chain saws never read the directions; as such, new designs of chains saws accounted for this by incorporating a two-factor process (using two hands to operate the chain saw and if one had was removed, the chain saw stopped operating). Again, I'm not saying RC was responsible, but hopefully this whole thing will lead to better design.

You have never been on a cruise ship. They all have open windows and open balconies on the 9th, 10th, 11th, and even 12th floors. Millions of people have cruised and only one toddler has fallen out an open window. You absolutely can feel a breeze on a cruise ship on the 10th floor. It would be too hot and stuffy for the boat to be docked in Puerto Rico and not have ventilation. No one wants to cruise and have their views obstructed by safety bars. The open windows are chest high. This was just a terrible tragedy. Sometimes awful things happen and it isn't anyone's fault. Toddlers can be unexpectedly wiggly and lunge foreward or to the side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From an industrial engineering standpoint, I'm surprised a cruise ship would have open windows like that. I'm not saying that RC was responsible, per se, but hopefully this lawsuit will compel all cruise ships to design their boats with better safety in mind by accounting for the human factor. I remember in grad school, we looked at studies where the majority of people who bought chain saws never read the directions; as such, new designs of chains saws accounted for this by incorporating a two-factor process (using two hands to operate the chain saw and if one had was removed, the chain saw stopped operating). Again, I'm not saying RC was responsible, but hopefully this whole thing will lead to better design.

It is simply not possible to idiot-proof the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watched the interview and found it odd when the mom said “Sam has NEVER put our children in danger.” and she seemed to be including the present situation in that statement. Denial is a powerful thing.

This is just it. It is now a campaign to absolve the one person who was actually holding onto, and had physical custody of, her baby. Terrible things happen, but they need to be acknowledged for one to move on from them. This is denial, all around. I know it is the worst thing that could happen, but it happened, and they need to heal as a family, not pretend that what happened didn't happen. This ambulance chaser is not helping matters. I never understood why anyone involved in a family tragedy would go on a PR campaign about how great their family is - because if that is what the parents think this is about, they are never going to heal. Instead, they are going to draw attention to their guilt and mistake, and *call into scrutiny their decision making skills*. It was a terrible mistake, but they ned to heal, not make it worse while thinking they are distracting or fooling anyone, because they are not, and their baby is gone. Sorry if I sound harsh, I just don't think they can heal in the direction they are going, and they look like they are trying to bring attention to themselves for all the wrong reasons.

It’s easy to say they should just acknowledge the step grandfather’s responsibility “and move on” but think what that actually looks like.

If the parents let in the belief he is responsible, do they keep him in their lives? Could you invite him to your home for a Christmas and not think how he was responsible for your child’s death?

If they cut him off, are they also cutting out the grandma? Or will grandma have to choose her daughter over her spouse? If she chooses to support the step grandpa, then the mom lost her daughter and her mom. What if she sticks by step grandpa and the dad can’t be around him. Will this tear apart their marriage?

The only thing I can imagine worse than losing a child is losing the rest of your family support system because of blame and anger.

If your whole world was on the brink of falling apart, wouldn’t you possibly retreat into denial?

[Anonymous]

They could acknowledge he made a tragic mistake and then forgive him. People make mistakes all of the time. It’s be different if it were intentional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They could acknowledge he made a tragic mistake and then forgive him. People make mistakes all of the time. It’s be different if it were intentional.

This was a pretty freaking huge mistake. I imagine it would take a very long time to process his role in this and come to a place of forgiveness. In the meantime, you have to create a narrative in your head that allows you to survive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the whole family is sort of crazy.

There is something weird about this family. Something weird about the step grandfather.

[Anonymous]

What do you mean PP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They could acknowledge he made a tragic mistake and then forgive him. People make mistakes all of the time. It’s be different if it were intentional.

This was a pretty freaking huge mistake. I imagine it would take a very long time to process his role in this and come to a place of forgiveness. In the meantime, you have to create a narrative in your head that allows you to survive.

Although I think the family is wrong, I see what the PP is saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I watched the interview and found it odd when the mom said “Sam has NEVER put our children in danger.” and she seemed to be including the present situation in that statement. Denial is a powerful thing.

I thought her affect and relationship with her child odd. Everyone thinks their baby is something special but something about her affect was very off. And no just because of grief. So much projection. Or something. And the absolute position that no one but RC could possibly be at fault gave me a queasy $$$$ feeling. This is one of the few families that seem to garner no sympathy.

[Anonymous]

Dramamine can make some people dizzy and out of it. I still think there is another factor not yet revealed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watched the interview and found it odd when the mom said “Sam has NEVER put our children in danger.” and she seemed to be including the present situation in that statement. Denial is a powerful thing.

This is just it. It is now a campaign to absolve the one person who was actually holding onto, and had physical custody of, her baby. Terrible things happen, but they need to be acknowledged for one to move on from them. This is denial, all around. I know it is the worst thing that could happen, but it happened, and they need to heal as a family, not pretend that what happened didn't happen. This ambulance chaser is not helping matters. I never understood why anyone involved in a family tragedy would go on a PR campaign about how great their family is - because if that is what the parents think this is about, they are never going to heal. Instead, they are going to draw attention to their guilt and mistake, and *call into scrutiny their decision making skills*. It was a terrible mistake, but they ned to heal, not make it worse while thinking they are distracting or fooling anyone, because they are not, and their baby is gone. Sorry if I sound harsh, I just don't think they can heal in the direction they are going, and they look like they are trying to bring attention to themselves for all the wrong reasons.

It’s easy to say they should just acknowledge the step grandfather’s responsibility “and move on” but think what that actually looks like.

If the parents let in the belief he is responsible, do they keep him in their lives? Could you invite him to your home for a Christmas and not think how he was responsible for your child’s death?

If they cut him off, are they also cutting out the grandma? Or will grandma have to choose her daughter over her spouse? If she chooses to support the step grandpa, then the mom lost her daughter and her mom. What if she sticks by step grandpa and the dad can’t be around him. Will this tear apart their marriage?

The only thing I can imagine worse than losing a child is losing the rest of your family support system because of blame and anger.

If your whole world was on the brink of falling apart, wouldn’t you possibly retreat into denial?

Here’s the thing... you can know something is a horrible accident, and move on. Even with the (apparent) blame on RC, what does Christmas look like this year? How will it look after a lengthy legal proceedings that may still not find RC negligent?

I’m different than most DCUMers, but I think forgiveness and healing take you farther than blame.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone remember the Madonna Badger case? Her three children and parents all died in a fire in CT on Christmas morning. They ultimately decided that the contractor boyfriend was at fault because the house was under construction and there were no smoke alarms. However, the house was condemned before Madonna could conduct her own investigation.

Anyway... the father of those three girls initiated the lawsuit against the contractor boyfriend (an extension of guilt passed on to the mother). The father subsequently died a few years later and I believe it was of a broken heart. There is no way that you can reasonably forgive someone who you believe caused the death of or is responsible for the death of your child; grandpa, mother, etc... If you are forced to forgive someone that is in your life in any way (past or present), I believe it will kill you.

All I'm saying is... I believe that there is no way that they parents can move on and also forgive grandpa. You will never look at him the same EVER again. They have to blame RC to survive as a family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember the Madonna Badger case? Her three children and parents all died in a fire in CT on Christmas morning. They ultimately decided that the contractor boyfriend was at fault because the house was under construction and there were no smoke alarms. However, the house was condemned before Madonna could conduct her own investigation.

Anyway... the father of those three girls initiated the lawsuit against the contractor boyfriend (an extension of guilt passed on to the mother). The father subsequently died a few years later and I believe it was of a broken heart. There is no way that you can reasonably forgive someone who you believe caused the death of or is responsible for the death of your child; grandpa, mother, etc... If you are forced to forgive someone that is in your life in any way (past or present), I believe it will kill you.

All I'm saying is... I believe that there is no way that they parents can move on and also forgive grandpa. You will never look at him the same EVER again. They have to blame RC to survive as a family.

First, in the case that you are citing the contractor WAS at fault. He scooped the ashes into a paper bag. Staying in a house with no working smoke alarms is the fault of the mother, but that isn’t what started the fire. The ashes did.

Second, do you really think all other parents who lose children in accidents (preventable or not) just die? If the parents don’t want to forgive Grandpa, that’s on them. But creating a false narrative and publicly shopping it around is gross. And to then trying to profit off of your baby’s death is just sickening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember the Madonna Badger case? Her three children and parents all died in a fire in CT on Christmas morning. They ultimately decided that the contractor boyfriend was at fault because the house was under construction and there were no smoke alarms. However, the house was condemned before Madonna could conduct her own investigation.

Anyway... the father of those three girls initiated the lawsuit against the contractor boyfriend (an extension of guilt passed on to the mother). The father subsequently died a few years later and I believe it was of a broken heart. There is no way that you can reasonably forgive someone who you believe caused the death of or is responsible for the death of your child; grandpa, mother, etc... If you are forced to forgive someone that is in your life in any way (past or present), I believe it will kill you.

All I'm saying is... I believe that there is no way that they parents can move on and also forgive grandpa. You will never look at him the same EVER again. They have to blame RC to survive as a family.

First, in the case that you are citing the contractor WAS at fault. He scooped the ashes into a paper bag. Staying in a house with no working smoke alarms is the fault of the mother, but that isn’t what started the fire. The ashes did.

Second, do you really think all other parents who lose children in accidents (preventable or not) just die? If the parents don’t want to forgive Grandpa, that’s on them. But creating a false narrative and publicly shopping it around is gross. And to then trying to profit off of your baby’s death is just sickening.

I'm not on the side of the parents at all. I don't believe RC to be at fault. I also believe that what the lawyer and parents are doing is gross.

No. I'm not saying that all parents who lose children just die. What I was trying to get across is that when you have to forgive someone that close to you for something really tragic, but you can't... it can kill you. You like the person. You love the person. You respect the person. The person is close family. That same person killed your child. How do you humanly forgive that same person.

By all accounts, Madonna Badger and her ex-husband had a great relationship. He loved her once. They were still friends. In each other's lives. Had history. Sure it was the contractor's fault and by some extension the mother's. All I'm saying is that his inability to forgive and coupled with his grief was overwhelming. The man just died.

[Anonymous]

But look at all the children who have drowned while in the care of one parent but not the other. Somehow many of them stay together, go on to have more children, etc. Look at Bode Miller.