Teen death at Whitman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The cops should have waited until everyone was picked up by a parent or family member.

Also, I wonder why the cops didn't help his father look when he went to the station at 3:30 am.

Cops aren't babysitters. They aren't going to make sure every drunk gets home safe. If they found a drunk alone, maybe the would have hauled him in. But I also have to wonder about why nothing was done at 3:30 am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My post was tagged onto the don't be delusional post, because I have no delusions.... It's entirely possible DC is drinking. Everytime she walks out the door she could be lying to me about what she's doing and drinking instead, that's why I referenced "guardrails". I just posted to say, that curfew and face to face check in help, as well as checking up on kids.

And yes, sleepovers are verified and limited to families whom I know have same parenting philosophy as me.

Guardrails are good, but they're not 100% certainty -- not in real life, and not metaphorically. We can do what we can to reduce risk while still allowing the child opportunities to learn to function as an independent human being, but we can't guarantee that everything will come out all right. As I'm sure you know. Parents who say, "This bad thing that happened to another kid will never happen to my kid because I [do X]" are fooling themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And when she tells you that she is sleeping over at X or Y's house...

That's the end of the conversation in my house. High school kids don't have sleepovers.

The first thing the principal at Whitman tells incoming freshman parents is "no more sleepovers".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The cops should have waited until everyone was picked up by a parent or family member.

Also, I wonder why the cops didn't help his father look when he went to the station at 3:30 am.

Would a parent sending Uber to pick up their kid count? What about a parent coming to pick up his/her own kid along with 3 or 4 of their kids' closest friends?

It sounds as though the party was already breaking up when the police got there. Some of the kids had already left and no one was partying anymore. This particular boy seemed to be with friends who were offering to get him home safely...

I don't know. I think that hindsight is 20/20 but sometimes freakish accidents just happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This just makes me so sad. Curious why officers could not have charged the boy with underage drinking -- would have saved his life.

Unless he was obviously seriously impaired, I am not sure you can say the cops should have arrested him, or otherwise taken greater steps to insure he got home. Generally speaking, I am in favor of cops exercising their discretion not to arrest in every instance they could, particularly since it sounds like the party had broken up and people were complying. Plus, it isn't even 100% clear to me based on what has been reported that they would have had probably cause to arrest him specifically at that juncture.

This was a tragedy, but it isn't clear that such unfortunate results were foreseeable at that point and I don't think the cops arresting everyone at the site of a high school party (especially one that seemed fairly tame and was being dispersed) is the answer.

Far short of arrest (and fretting over probable cause and unforeseen circumstances), police can simply call the kid’s parents to come pick kid up. It works. Ask me how I know.

Based on unfortunate personal experiences, the best thing the cops can do is gather up the kids, and let them know the things that could happen to them at this point (arrest and by by VaTech app or die while driving home of die out in the woods, etc) while they wait for their parents to come pick them up. Next best thing is to give them all written citations. Letting them go with nothing is really the worst thing cops can do.

Writing every one up with citations only encourages kids to flee. By breaking the party up and telling the kids to call their parents and get rides home, the police are doing what they can to make sure that those kids get home safely.

I think police need to act with a bit more authority than to simply tell the kids to call for a ride. Clearly your experience has been different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The cops should have waited until everyone was picked up by a parent or family member.

Also, I wonder why the cops didn't help his father look when he went to the station at 3:30 am.

Cops aren't babysitters. They aren't going to make sure every drunk gets home safe. If they found a drunk alone, maybe the would have hauled him in. But I also have to wonder about why nothing was done at 3:30 am.

The cops aren't babysitters, agreed. But when breaking up a party where there is underage drinking, they are supposed to wait until everyone gets picked up by a parent or family member. This way they aren't walking off and going missing or getting behind the wheel. It keeps everyone safe. It isn't babysitting. It's protecting the safety of the community.

I am assuming that because the father didn't report him as a missing person, that's why no help with searching. He wasn't reported as missing until the next day. Then the search formal ensued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And when she tells you that she is sleeping over at X or Y's house...

That's the end of the conversation in my house. High school kids don't have sleepovers.

The first thing the principal at Whitman tells incoming freshman parents is "no more sleepovers".

My teens rarely do sleepovers now. Even when they were younger sleepovers were a once a quarter thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/a-night-long-search-for-their-missing-son-ends-in-the-woods-hes-gone-i-found-him/2017/12/12/4b661b24-df82-11e7-bbd0-9dfb2e37492a_story.html?utm_term=.a816e71238d3

So sad. I feel so bad for his parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/a-night-long-search-for-their-missing-son-ends-in-the-woods-hes-gone-i-found-him/2017/12/12/4b661b24-df82-11e7-bbd0-9dfb2e37492a_story.html?utm_term=.a816e71238d3

This literally takes my breath away.

[Anonymous]

More details. Early determination is a drowning. Sounds like the police dropped the ball.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/father-demands-answers-after-teen-dies-following-underage-drinking-party-1/498988481

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/a-night-long-search-for-their-missing-son-ends-in-the-woods-hes-gone-i-found-him/2017/12/12/4b661b24-df82-11e7-bbd0-9dfb2e37492a_story.html?utm_term=.a816e71238d3

This literally takes my breath away.

It does indeed. Let's remember that this child was a son and a brother and friend. This is a horrible accident that could have happened to any of us regardless of our parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/a-night-long-search-for-their-missing-son-ends-in-the-woods-hes-gone-i-found-him/2017/12/12/4b661b24-df82-11e7-bbd0-9dfb2e37492a_story.html?utm_term=.a816e71238d3

This literally takes my breath away.

It does indeed. Let's remember that this child was a son and a brother and friend. This is a horrible accident that could have happened to any of us regardless of our parenting.

Yes, this. We like to think we can make better choices, do a better job but the reality is that everyone in this situation was well intended and good kids sometimes make bad choices and sometimes that choice has life altering consequences. I know I made a thousand choices in my youth that could have turned out horribly and I had wonderful, attentive, active parents. There but for the grace of God go I. It tears at your soul. It really does.

[Anonymous]

I worry about the friends of his that were with him and got separated from him. The concern now is that they process that and not blame themselves.

They chose to go to an underage party and drink. Understandably, the parents want to blame someone for this but had he not been drinking, this would not have happened.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I drank and partied in HS. I was a good kid-- got good grades, had a job, etc. My parents didn't know I was partying-- they were great parents but were not on top of me every second (and I don't believe any of you who say you know where your kid is all times in HS). This could have happened to me or any of my friends. Right now, this could happen to your kids or any of their friends. If you think 'never my kid' or 'I would kill my kid for that' then you are the type of parents whose kids wont tell them when they need a ride home from such party, etc...be smart people-- maybe not all HS kids drink, but don't kid yourself that your child is somehow safe from all of this because you are such a great parent.

Exact same. I think a lot of you are pretty delusional / would be surprised to find out how easily your kid gives you lip service on this stuff

I'm a pretty strict parent and always ask where kids are going, who else will be there, if parents are home, etc., but I recognize that my kid can lie to me and I have no way of checking. So, DC can say she is going to a movie and really go somewhere else (as I often did as a teen).

The more important thing to do, I think, is to have a curfew (midnight to 1-ish) that is late enough to let them go out but not so late that they can drink a lot and sober up by curfew.

DC knows I will be up when she gets home and knows she will have to have a conversation with me and interact with me long enough when she gets home that I will notice if she is drunk or stoned. She also knows if she breaks curfew or gets caught lying she will get grounded. Finally, she knows she can call me in any situation, even drunk or stoned, and ask for help or a ride.

No sleepovers at parent's houses whom I don't know well and trust to not serve.

I hope all of these things mean that she has some independence with guard rails.

And when she tells you that she is sleeping over at X or Y's house...do you call and verify this with those parents every single time? And verify that they will not let the kids go out anywhere, or if they do they will have a mandated curfew and the parent will be waiting up when they get back and will talk to (each of!) them for long enough to verify that no one in the group has had anything to drink? And that IF, post in-depth 1 AM conversation with your kid, they determine that she has been drinking, they'll notify you?

Listen, I'm not saying you're doing something wrong here, I'm just saying don't be unrealistic. If your kid wants to drink, she will drink...and hopefully she will do so only in moderation, and in all likelihood everything will be totally fine. But don't (and I'm not saying YOU in particular are doing this, but some PPs) act like you are a superior parent who has everything under control and therefore your kid does not and will not drink, and these kids who DO drink's parents have all failed them. That's not how it works.

Ftr I think it's good that you've made it clear if she's in a bad situation she can call you no questions asked. I also think emphasizing no drunk driving / no getting in the car with someone who has been drinking is very important (as opposed to a steadfast "no drinking end of story" approach)

My post was tagged onto the don't be delusional post, because I have no delusions.... It's entirely possible DC is drinking. Everytime she walks out the door she could be lying to me about what she's doing and drinking instead, that's why I referenced "guardrails". I just posted to say, that curfew and face to face check in help, as well as checking up on kids.

And yes, sleepovers are verified and limited to families whom I know have same parenting philosophy as me.

You know the parenting philosophy of every single family your almost 18 year old is friends with? Then when he goes to college? What?

This was not a freshman. Also, he was not at a sleepover. He is almost 18 and going to college. His parents obviously expected a face to face encounter which is why the parent was frantic when he did not make curfew.

Agree. And the kid probably did tell his parents where he was going, but kids change their minds and move around, especially seniors who can drive. And yes, even you parents who think your kids tell you exactly where they are at all times might be surprised about the truth.

From the article it also sounds like he wasn't lost in the woods fleeing from the party, he and friends went to 7-11 and were hanging out and he then got lost/fell getting home from 7-11.

Further it sounds like the people hosting the party were not in fact serving alcohol, and that they shut things down when more kids (probably uninvited and hearing of the party from social media) showed up. The mom was quoted as saying something about "older teens" showing up. The kid was found with a bottle of vodka in his pocket. Probably purchased by someone's older sibling, or with a fake ID. And the group was probably drinking before they arrived at the party.

It's possible the kid's parents did as much as they could, the party host parents did nothing wrong, the kid was an otherwise good kid but made a terrible mistake or series of mistakes and a tragic accident happened. It could happen to any of us.

[Anonymous]

What IS proper police procedure when they come across intoxicated teens? Did the police violate that procedure? Or is it just a judgment call?
My heart breaks for his family. This could absolutely be any of us. They did nothing wrong. The party hosts did nothing wrong and in fact did the proper thing by calling police when the older kids showed up.
In addition to being careful with alcohol we need to remind our kids to stay together. Somehow Navid was separated from his friends which was fatal.
Alcohol alone is bad, but there is safety in numbers. I don't know how to instill that in kids though.
Prayers for Navid's family that they find peace some day. I hope they know the community is embracing them in their sorrow.