Teen death at Whitman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I drank and partied in HS. I was a good kid-- got good grades, had a job, etc. My parents didn't know I was partying-- they were great parents but were not on top of me every second (and I don't believe any of you who say you know where your kid is all times in HS). This could have happened to me or any of my friends. Right now, this could happen to your kids or any of their friends. If you think 'never my kid' or 'I would kill my kid for that' then you are the type of parents whose kids wont tell them when they need a ride home from such party, etc...be smart people-- maybe not all HS kids drink, but don't kid yourself that your child is somehow safe from all of this because you are such a great parent.

Exact same. I think a lot of you are pretty delusional / would be surprised to find out how easily your kid gives you lip service on this stuff

I'm a pretty strict parent and always ask where kids are going, who else will be there, if parents are home, etc., but I recognize that my kid can lie to me and I have no way of checking. So, DC can say she is going to a movie and really go somewhere else (as I often did as a teen).

The more important thing to do, I think, is to have a curfew (midnight to 1-ish) that is late enough to let them go out but not so late that they can drink a lot and sober up by curfew.

DC knows I will be up when she gets home and knows she will have to have a conversation with me and interact with me long enough when she gets home that I will notice if she is drunk or stoned. She also knows if she breaks curfew or gets caught lying she will get grounded. Finally, she knows she can call me in any situation, even drunk or stoned, and ask for help or a ride.

No sleepovers at parent's houses whom I don't know well and trust to not serve.

I hope all of these things mean that she has some independence with guard rails.

And when she tells you that she is sleeping over at X or Y's house...do you call and verify this with those parents every single time? And verify that they will not let the kids go out anywhere, or if they do they will have a mandated curfew and the parent will be waiting up when they get back and will talk to (each of!) them for long enough to verify that no one in the group has had anything to drink? And that IF, post in-depth 1 AM conversation with your kid, they determine that she has been drinking, they'll notify you?

Listen, I'm not saying you're doing something wrong here, I'm just saying don't be unrealistic. If your kid wants to drink, she will drink...and hopefully she will do so only in moderation, and in all likelihood everything will be totally fine. But don't (and I'm not saying YOU in particular are doing this, but some PPs) act like you are a superior parent who has everything under control and therefore your kid does not and will not drink, and these kids who DO drink's parents have all failed them. That's not how it works.

Ftr I think it's good that you've made it clear if she's in a bad situation she can call you no questions asked. I also think emphasizing no drunk driving / no getting in the car with someone who has been drinking is very important (as opposed to a steadfast "no drinking end of story" approach)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This just makes me so sad. Curious why officers could not have charged the boy with underage drinking -- would have saved his life.

Unless he was obviously seriously impaired, I am not sure you can say the cops should have arrested him, or otherwise taken greater steps to insure he got home. Generally speaking, I am in favor of cops exercising their discretion not to arrest in every instance they could, particularly since it sounds like the party had broken up and people were complying. Plus, it isn't even 100% clear to me based on what has been reported that they would have had probably cause to arrest him specifically at that juncture.

This was a tragedy, but it isn't clear that such unfortunate results were foreseeable at that point and I don't think the cops arresting everyone at the site of a high school party (especially one that seemed fairly tame and was being dispersed) is the answer.

The procedure is to detain the kids, call their parents and write a citation, not arrest.

But the cops could detain the kids and call the parents without writing a citation.

The cops are not doing anybody a favor by letting drunk kids go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am wondering if something else played a role - if he was drunk and stumbling in a wooded area if he fell and hit his head and was concussed or had freak subdural hematoma that prevented him from self-help. Only autopsy will show this.

While that is possible, please be careful that you aren't going down the "it won't happen to my kid because this was a totally freak once in a life time accident path." If he hadn't been drinking .... that is where you start with your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I drank and partied in HS. I was a good kid-- got good grades, had a job, etc. My parents didn't know I was partying-- they were great parents but were not on top of me every second (and I don't believe any of you who say you know where your kid is all times in HS). This could have happened to me or any of my friends. Right now, this could happen to your kids or any of their friends. If you think 'never my kid' or 'I would kill my kid for that' then you are the type of parents whose kids wont tell them when they need a ride home from such party, etc...be smart people-- maybe not all HS kids drink, but don't kid yourself that your child is somehow safe from all of this because you are such a great parent.

Exact same. I think a lot of you are pretty delusional / would be surprised to find out how easily your kid gives you lip service on this stuff

I'm a pretty strict parent and always ask where kids are going, who else will be there, if parents are home, etc., but I recognize that my kid can lie to me and I have no way of checking. So, DC can say she is going to a movie and really go somewhere else (as I often did as a teen).

The more important thing to do, I think, is to have a curfew (midnight to 1-ish) that is late enough to let them go out but not so late that they can drink a lot and sober up by curfew.

DC knows I will be up when she gets home and knows she will have to have a conversation with me and interact with me long enough when she gets home that I will notice if she is drunk or stoned. She also knows if she breaks curfew or gets caught lying she will get grounded. Finally, she knows she can call me in any situation, even drunk or stoned, and ask for help or a ride.

No sleepovers at parent's houses whom I don't know well and trust to not serve.

I hope all of these things mean that she has some independence with guard rails.

And when she tells you that she is sleeping over at X or Y's house...do you call and verify this with those parents every single time? And verify that they will not let the kids go out anywhere, or if they do they will have a mandated curfew and the parent will be waiting up when they get back and will talk to (each of!) them for long enough to verify that no one in the group has had anything to drink? And that IF, post in-depth 1 AM conversation with your kid, they determine that she has been drinking, they'll notify you?

Listen, I'm not saying you're doing something wrong here, I'm just saying don't be unrealistic. If your kid wants to drink, she will drink...and hopefully she will do so only in moderation, and in all likelihood everything will be totally fine. But don't (and I'm not saying YOU in particular are doing this, but some PPs) act like you are a superior parent who has everything under control and therefore your kid does not and will not drink, and these kids who DO drink's parents have all failed them. That's not how it works.

Ftr I think it's good that you've made it clear if she's in a bad situation she can call you no questions asked. I also think emphasizing no drunk driving / no getting in the car with someone who has been drinking is very important (as opposed to a steadfast "no drinking end of story" approach)

At this age, I expect my kid to be responsible. I text him, not the parent, not the friend. If he is going over to a friend's house, I expect for him to tell me if he is going to then go out to a movie, or to shoot basketballs or to a party for that matter. If he's going to another house I want to know which house, who he will be with and whether the parents are home.

When he is leaving the house, I want to know where he's going..etc.

This boy's parent could have been doing all this and more. Obviously the boy's dad got concerned enough to go to the police station at 3:30am. That doesn't sound like a parent who was just allowing his kid to go wherever he wanted to w/o touching base. For a parent to go to the police station looking for his kid - that's got to be fairly frantic. I feel for his parents, I really do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I drank and partied in HS. I was a good kid-- got good grades, had a job, etc. My parents didn't know I was partying-- they were great parents but were not on top of me every second (and I don't believe any of you who say you know where your kid is all times in HS). This could have happened to me or any of my friends. Right now, this could happen to your kids or any of their friends. If you think 'never my kid' or 'I would kill my kid for that' then you are the type of parents whose kids wont tell them when they need a ride home from such party, etc...be smart people-- maybe not all HS kids drink, but don't kid yourself that your child is somehow safe from all of this because you are such a great parent.

Exact same. I think a lot of you are pretty delusional / would be surprised to find out how easily your kid gives you lip service on this stuff

I'm a pretty strict parent and always ask where kids are going, who else will be there, if parents are home, etc., but I recognize that my kid can lie to me and I have no way of checking. So, DC can say she is going to a movie and really go somewhere else (as I often did as a teen).

The more important thing to do, I think, is to have a curfew (midnight to 1-ish) that is late enough to let them go out but not so late that they can drink a lot and sober up by curfew.

DC knows I will be up when she gets home and knows she will have to have a conversation with me and interact with me long enough when she gets home that I will notice if she is drunk or stoned. She also knows if she breaks curfew or gets caught lying she will get grounded. Finally, she knows she can call me in any situation, even drunk or stoned, and ask for help or a ride.

No sleepovers at parent's houses whom I don't know well and trust to not serve.

I hope all of these things mean that she has some independence with guard rails.

And when she tells you that she is sleeping over at X or Y's house...do you call and verify this with those parents every single time? And verify that they will not let the kids go out anywhere, or if they do they will have a mandated curfew and the parent will be waiting up when they get back and will talk to (each of!) them for long enough to verify that no one in the group has had anything to drink? And that IF, post in-depth 1 AM conversation with your kid, they determine that she has been drinking, they'll notify you?

Listen, I'm not saying you're doing something wrong here, I'm just saying don't be unrealistic. If your kid wants to drink, she will drink...and hopefully she will do so only in moderation, and in all likelihood everything will be totally fine. But don't (and I'm not saying YOU in particular are doing this, but some PPs) act like you are a superior parent who has everything under control and therefore your kid does not and will not drink, and these kids who DO drink's parents have all failed them. That's not how it works.

Ftr I think it's good that you've made it clear if she's in a bad situation she can call you no questions asked. I also think emphasizing no drunk driving / no getting in the car with someone who has been drinking is very important (as opposed to a steadfast "no drinking end of story" approach)

My post was tagged onto the don't be delusional post, because I have no delusions.... It's entirely possible DC is drinking. Everytime she walks out the door she could be lying to me about what she's doing and drinking instead, that's why I referenced "guardrails". I just posted to say, that curfew and face to face check in help, as well as checking up on kids.

And yes, sleepovers are verified and limited to families whom I know have same parenting philosophy as me.

[Anonymous]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/a-night-long-search-for-their-missing-son-ends-in-the-woods-hes-gone-i-found-him/2017/12/12/4b661b24-df82-11e7-bbd0-9dfb2e37492a_story.html?utm_term=.a816e71238d3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And when she tells you that she is sleeping over at X or Y's house...

That's the end of the conversation in my house. High school kids don't have sleepovers.

[Anonymous]

This is so sad. I am sure the dad / parents is now replaying all the scenarios in his head - if he didn't let him go to that party, if they went out of town that weekend, if he had called him an hour before, if he had started searching for him earlier, if he had searched in that particular location, if the police came to search with him at 3:00 AM, if the neighbor hadn't called, if the party was not broken up at the time it did, if he had ubered, and and other million ifs that come to mind when something like this happens. Feel really sorry for the kid and his family. Beyond sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And when she tells you that she is sleeping over at X or Y's house...

That's the end of the conversation in my house. High school kids don't have sleepovers.

Wow. What? That's pretty extreme...

Did you let them have sleepovers when they were younger? Are friends allowed to sleep at your house?

I dunno, I'd speculate that being extremely controlling to this degree will not pay off for you in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I drank and partied in HS. I was a good kid-- got good grades, had a job, etc. My parents didn't know I was partying-- they were great parents but were not on top of me every second (and I don't believe any of you who say you know where your kid is all times in HS). This could have happened to me or any of my friends. Right now, this could happen to your kids or any of their friends. If you think 'never my kid' or 'I would kill my kid for that' then you are the type of parents whose kids wont tell them when they need a ride home from such party, etc...be smart people-- maybe not all HS kids drink, but don't kid yourself that your child is somehow safe from all of this because you are such a great parent.

Exact same. I think a lot of you are pretty delusional / would be surprised to find out how easily your kid gives you lip service on this stuff

I'm a pretty strict parent and always ask where kids are going, who else will be there, if parents are home, etc., but I recognize that my kid can lie to me and I have no way of checking. So, DC can say she is going to a movie and really go somewhere else (as I often did as a teen).

The more important thing to do, I think, is to have a curfew (midnight to 1-ish) that is late enough to let them go out but not so late that they can drink a lot and sober up by curfew.

DC knows I will be up when she gets home and knows she will have to have a conversation with me and interact with me long enough when she gets home that I will notice if she is drunk or stoned. She also knows if she breaks curfew or gets caught lying she will get grounded. Finally, she knows she can call me in any situation, even drunk or stoned, and ask for help or a ride.

No sleepovers at parent's houses whom I don't know well and trust to not serve.

I hope all of these things mean that she has some independence with guard rails.

And when she tells you that she is sleeping over at X or Y's house...do you call and verify this with those parents every single time? And verify that they will not let the kids go out anywhere, or if they do they will have a mandated curfew and the parent will be waiting up when they get back and will talk to (each of!) them for long enough to verify that no one in the group has had anything to drink? And that IF, post in-depth 1 AM conversation with your kid, they determine that she has been drinking, they'll notify you?

Listen, I'm not saying you're doing something wrong here, I'm just saying don't be unrealistic. If your kid wants to drink, she will drink...and hopefully she will do so only in moderation, and in all likelihood everything will be totally fine. But don't (and I'm not saying YOU in particular are doing this, but some PPs) act like you are a superior parent who has everything under control and therefore your kid does not and will not drink, and these kids who DO drink's parents have all failed them. That's not how it works.

Ftr I think it's good that you've made it clear if she's in a bad situation she can call you no questions asked. I also think emphasizing no drunk driving / no getting in the car with someone who has been drinking is very important (as opposed to a steadfast "no drinking end of story" approach)

My post was tagged onto the don't be delusional post, because I have no delusions.... It's entirely possible DC is drinking. Everytime she walks out the door she could be lying to me about what she's doing and drinking instead, that's why I referenced "guardrails". I just posted to say, that curfew and face to face check in help, as well as checking up on kids.

And yes, sleepovers are verified and limited to families whom I know have same parenting philosophy as me.

You know the parenting philosophy of every single family your almost 18 year old is friends with? Then when he goes to college? What?

This was not a freshman. Also, he was not at a sleepover. He is almost 18 and going to college. His parents obviously expected a face to face encounter which is why the parent was frantic when he did not make curfew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This just makes me so sad. Curious why officers could not have charged the boy with underage drinking -- would have saved his life.

Unless he was obviously seriously impaired, I am not sure you can say the cops should have arrested him, or otherwise taken greater steps to insure he got home. Generally speaking, I am in favor of cops exercising their discretion not to arrest in every instance they could, particularly since it sounds like the party had broken up and people were complying. Plus, it isn't even 100% clear to me based on what has been reported that they would have had probably cause to arrest him specifically at that juncture.

This was a tragedy, but it isn't clear that such unfortunate results were foreseeable at that point and I don't think the cops arresting everyone at the site of a high school party (especially one that seemed fairly tame and was being dispersed) is the answer.

Far short of arrest (and fretting over probable cause and unforeseen circumstances), police can simply call the kid’s parents to come pick kid up. It works. Ask me how I know.

Based on unfortunate personal experiences, the best thing the cops can do is gather up the kids, and let them know the things that could happen to them at this point (arrest and by by VaTech app or die while driving home of die out in the woods, etc) while they wait for their parents to come pick them up. Next best thing is to give them all written citations. Letting them go with nothing is really the worst thing cops can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This just makes me so sad. Curious why officers could not have charged the boy with underage drinking -- would have saved his life.

Unless he was obviously seriously impaired, I am not sure you can say the cops should have arrested him, or otherwise taken greater steps to insure he got home. Generally speaking, I am in favor of cops exercising their discretion not to arrest in every instance they could, particularly since it sounds like the party had broken up and people were complying. Plus, it isn't even 100% clear to me based on what has been reported that they would have had probably cause to arrest him specifically at that juncture.

This was a tragedy, but it isn't clear that such unfortunate results were foreseeable at that point and I don't think the cops arresting everyone at the site of a high school party (especially one that seemed fairly tame and was being dispersed) is the answer.

Far short of arrest (and fretting over probable cause and unforeseen circumstances), police can simply call the kid’s parents to come pick kid up. It works. Ask me how I know.

Based on unfortunate personal experiences, the best thing the cops can do is gather up the kids, and let them know the things that could happen to them at this point (arrest and by by VaTech app or die while driving home of die out in the woods, etc) while they wait for their parents to come pick them up. Next best thing is to give them all written citations. Letting them go with nothing is really the worst thing cops can do.

Writing every one up with citations only encourages kids to flee. By breaking the party up and telling the kids to call their parents and get rides home, the police are doing what they can to make sure that those kids get home safely.

[Anonymous]

The cops should have waited until everyone was picked up by a parent or family member.

Also, I wonder why the cops didn't help his father look when he went to the station at 3:30 am.

[Anonymous]

This story is awful. So so sorry for this family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I drank and partied in HS. I was a good kid-- got good grades, had a job, etc. My parents didn't know I was partying-- they were great parents but were not on top of me every second (and I don't believe any of you who say you know where your kid is all times in HS). This could have happened to me or any of my friends. Right now, this could happen to your kids or any of their friends. If you think 'never my kid' or 'I would kill my kid for that' then you are the type of parents whose kids wont tell them when they need a ride home from such party, etc...be smart people-- maybe not all HS kids drink, but don't kid yourself that your child is somehow safe from all of this because you are such a great parent.

Exact same. I think a lot of you are pretty delusional / would be surprised to find out how easily your kid gives you lip service on this stuff

I'm a pretty strict parent and always ask where kids are going, who else will be there, if parents are home, etc., but I recognize that my kid can lie to me and I have no way of checking. So, DC can say she is going to a movie and really go somewhere else (as I often did as a teen).

The more important thing to do, I think, is to have a curfew (midnight to 1-ish) that is late enough to let them go out but not so late that they can drink a lot and sober up by curfew.

DC knows I will be up when she gets home and knows she will have to have a conversation with me and interact with me long enough when she gets home that I will notice if she is drunk or stoned. She also knows if she breaks curfew or gets caught lying she will get grounded. Finally, she knows she can call me in any situation, even drunk or stoned, and ask for help or a ride.

No sleepovers at parent's houses whom I don't know well and trust to not serve.

I hope all of these things mean that she has some independence with guard rails.

And when she tells you that she is sleeping over at X or Y's house...do you call and verify this with those parents every single time? And verify that they will not let the kids go out anywhere, or if they do they will have a mandated curfew and the parent will be waiting up when they get back and will talk to (each of!) them for long enough to verify that no one in the group has had anything to drink? And that IF, post in-depth 1 AM conversation with your kid, they determine that she has been drinking, they'll notify you?

Listen, I'm not saying you're doing something wrong here, I'm just saying don't be unrealistic. If your kid wants to drink, she will drink...and hopefully she will do so only in moderation, and in all likelihood everything will be totally fine. But don't (and I'm not saying YOU in particular are doing this, but some PPs) act like you are a superior parent who has everything under control and therefore your kid does not and will not drink, and these kids who DO drink's parents have all failed them. That's not how it works.

Ftr I think it's good that you've made it clear if she's in a bad situation she can call you no questions asked. I also think emphasizing no drunk driving / no getting in the car with someone who has been drinking is very important (as opposed to a steadfast "no drinking end of story" approach)

It is impossible to know exactly what is happening at every moment. DD went to friends hous for the evening. Turns out they left friends house and went to a party with the friend's mom's approval. DD drove and she only had license about 2 months. Other mom didn't seem to care her DD was in a car with a new driver because she told the girls not to drink when they drove to the party.
Needless to say DD was grounded for going somewhere without telling me and driving another kid. But even worse, it has ruined a friendship because I can't trust the other mom when my kid is at her house.