Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians are subjected to racism as well. Even worse, Asians must suffer in silence most of the time since Asians lack sufficient political base/power unlike AA/Hispanics. In fact, this lack of political base/power is what is allowing racial discrimination against Asians in college admissions.

I sympathize with some of the problems Asians are experiencing but your comment makes them seem like martyrs which they are not.

As far as lacking power, China is the majority holder of U.S. treasury bonds. Not much lacking of power there. And if there is a lack of political base power, please don't blame that on AA and Hispanics. Stop presenting Asians as this poor, misaligned group of people. They are far from that demeaning image.

The original comment does not make Asians into martyrs. It alleges Asians are victims of racial discrimination in college admissions. I am not sure if China is the majority holder of U.S. treasury bonds but that has nothing to do with a political base/power of Asians and Asian Americans in U.S. In addition, there was no blaming AA and Hispanics for this lack of political base/power. The comment suggested this lack of power is what is allowing the racial discrimination to continue. Finally, it's not demeaning to assert that Asians are discriminated against in college admissions due to their lack of sufficient political power. It is a factual statement not demeaning at all. Is it demeaning to assert that AA are discriminated against in the US in general?

AA did not 'suffer' in silence. They refused to sit in backs of buses, boycotted businesses, had dogs and hoses turned on them, and other despicable things done that resulted in death.

AA had no political power when they rightfully took to the streets for equal rights which they still fight for. Many did end up real martyrs. The fight for AA rights cannot and should not be compared to any experience that Asians are going through right now. There is no comparison physically, mentally, or emotionally. None.

It is true that despicable things were done to AA. Despicable things were done to Asians/Asian Americans, (forcing Chines to take explosives in to holes when building railroads often resulting deaths, confiscating all businesses/homes etc. and putting Japanese Americans into concentration camps, Chinese Exclusion Act etc. etc.) as well. I do not believe it is constructive to try to say which group suffered or which group suffered less.

Also, racial discrimination and despicable acts stand on their own and there is no need to say Asian suffering cannot be compared to AA suffering. In fact, there was no comparison in the first place. The prior comment said Asians are victims of racial discrimination in college admissions. How is that comparing Asian experience to AA?

Racial discrimination is wrong whether one perceives one group's experience to be worse or not. I think it's silly to suggest that Asian Americans cannot even mention they are discriminated against since even mentioning such thing is not allowed. This clearly demonstrates the main point that Asians are so lacking in political power that they cannot even "mention" they are discriminated against without being attacked.

Nobody said Asian Americans couldn't even mention they are discriminated against. You consistently rearrange posters words to turn it into a pity party.

It is you who should be ashamed for perpetuating this untrue, negative image of the poor Asian American who is helpless and powerless. You need to stop it.

One of the earlier comments did say "The fight for AA rights cannot and should not be compared to any experience that Asians are going through right now" when it was suggested that Asian Americans suffered racial discrimination in college admissions. It is not a pity party when one asserts a wrongful act should be remedied.

It is not perpetuating Asian American as helpless and powerless to try to assert that injustice is being committed and this injustice should be corrected. There is no shame in that. It was pointed out that AA did not suffer in silence. Asian Americans should not suffer in silence as well. You should encourage Asian Americans to speak up/protest more in the way AA did and not try to shame them into further silence.

[Anonymous]

This whole concept kind of puts Whites in a pickle. For decades, Whites have argued that test scores and the like should be used as the key standard for admission. That is because they knew that they held the “advantage” in regards to AA and Hispanic students. Now that Asians are beating them based on the test score rubric, they now want to embrace the holistic approach to admissions – something that URMs have advocated for decades. Now that Whites are in danger of losing spots based on the same standards that they have pushed, the other standards now have merit?

Well, I will say this and I have said this MANY times. If Asians are successful in this endeavor, those spots will not come from the AA or Hispanic side of the ledger. The people most at risk would be the White students who are mediocre compared to other Whites – the lower end of the White totem pole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole concept kind of puts Whites in a pickle. For decades, Whites have argued that test scores and the like should be used as the key standard for admission. That is because they knew that they held the “advantage” in regards to AA and Hispanic students. Now that Asians are beating them based on the test score rubric, they now want to embrace the holistic approach to admissions – something that URMs have advocated for decades. Now that Whites are in danger of losing spots based on the same standards that they have pushed, the other standards now have merit?

Well, I will say this and I have said this MANY times. If Asians are successful in this endeavor, those spots will not come from the AA or Hispanic side of the ledger. The people most at risk would be the White students who are mediocre compared to other Whites – the lower end of the White totem pole.

A previous poster had a similar opinion as yours and was called a negative name. However, I agree with you for telling it like it is. It is inevitable when white students start losing seats at a significant rate, there will be an outcry, and it will be heard loudly, fast, and furious. There are more seats taken by whites and Asians than blacks and Hispanics. Far more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole concept kind of puts Whites in a pickle. For decades, Whites have argued that test scores and the like should be used as the key standard for admission. That is because they knew that they held the “advantage” in regards to AA and Hispanic students. Now that Asians are beating them based on the test score rubric, they now want to embrace the holistic approach to admissions – something that URMs have advocated for decades. Now that Whites are in danger of losing spots based on the same standards that they have pushed, the other standards now have merit?

Well, I will say this and I have said this MANY times. If Asians are successful in this endeavor, those spots will not come from the AA or Hispanic side of the ledger. The people most at risk would be the White students who are mediocre compared to other Whites – the lower end of the White totem pole.

Good grief, don't the Asians have an entire continent already? I'm sure there are some top schools in Korea and China that Asian students ought to be able to attend. Asians did not found this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole concept kind of puts Whites in a pickle. For decades, Whites have argued that test scores and the like should be used as the key standard for admission. That is because they knew that they held the “advantage” in regards to AA and Hispanic students. Now that Asians are beating them based on the test score rubric, they now want to embrace the holistic approach to admissions – something that URMs have advocated for decades. Now that Whites are in danger of losing spots based on the same standards that they have pushed, the other standards now have merit?

Well, I will say this and I have said this MANY times. If Asians are successful in this endeavor, those spots will not come from the AA or Hispanic side of the ledger. The people most at risk would be the White students who are mediocre compared to other Whites – the lower end of the White totem pole.

Good grief, don't the Asians have an entire continent already? I'm sure there are some top schools in Korea and China that Asian students ought to be able to attend. Asians did not found this country.

I think you are confusing "Asians" with "Asian Americans" living in the US. Under your logic it would be like saying "don't whites have an entire continent already? I am sure there are some top schools in UK or France that whites ought to be able to attend." Asian Americans immigrated to this country just like you did and whites did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole concept kind of puts Whites in a pickle. For decades, Whites have argued that test scores and the like should be used as the key standard for admission. That is because they knew that they held the “advantage” in regards to AA and Hispanic students. Now that Asians are beating them based on the test score rubric, they now want to embrace the holistic approach to admissions – something that URMs have advocated for decades. Now that Whites are in danger of losing spots based on the same standards that they have pushed, the other standards now have merit?

Well, I will say this and I have said this MANY times. If Asians are successful in this endeavor, those spots will not come from the AA or Hispanic side of the ledger. The people most at risk would be the White students who are mediocre compared to other Whites – the lower end of the White totem pole.

Good grief, don't the Asians have an entire continent already? I'm sure there are some top schools in Korea and China that Asian students ought to be able to attend. Asians did not found this country.

I think you are confusing "Asians" with "Asian Americans" living in the US. Under your logic it would be like saying "don't whites have an entire continent already? I am sure there are some top schools in UK or France that whites ought to be able to attend." Asian Americans immigrated to this country just like you did and whites did.

But the #1 immigrant to the US are Asians. So we are talking about Asians not just Asian Americans. The Asian Americans are in the same pickle as the whites. Many of them are not in desperate enough situations to destroy their children's lives with test prep and piano lessons with Chinese language classes on the weekends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole concept kind of puts Whites in a pickle. For decades, Whites have argued that test scores and the like should be used as the key standard for admission. That is because they knew that they held the “advantage” in regards to AA and Hispanic students. Now that Asians are beating them based on the test score rubric, they now want to embrace the holistic approach to admissions – something that URMs have advocated for decades. Now that Whites are in danger of losing spots based on the same standards that they have pushed, the other standards now have merit?

Well, I will say this and I have said this MANY times. If Asians are successful in this endeavor, those spots will not come from the AA or Hispanic side of the ledger. The people most at risk would be the White students who are mediocre compared to other Whites – the lower end of the White totem pole.

Good grief, don't the Asians have an entire continent already? I'm sure there are some top schools in Korea and China that Asian students ought to be able to attend. Asians did not found this country.

I think you are confusing "Asians" with "Asian Americans" living in the US. Under your logic it would be like saying "don't whites have an entire continent already? I am sure there are some top schools in UK or France that whites ought to be able to attend." Asian Americans immigrated to this country just like you did and whites did.

AA did not immigrate. They had other accommodations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole concept kind of puts Whites in a pickle. For decades, Whites have argued that test scores and the like should be used as the key standard for admission. That is because they knew that they held the “advantage” in regards to AA and Hispanic students. Now that Asians are beating them based on the test score rubric, they now want to embrace the holistic approach to admissions – something that URMs have advocated for decades. Now that Whites are in danger of losing spots based on the same standards that they have pushed, the other standards now have merit?

Well, I will say this and I have said this MANY times. If Asians are successful in this endeavor, those spots will not come from the AA or Hispanic side of the ledger. The people most at risk would be the White students who are mediocre compared to other Whites – the lower end of the White totem pole.

Good grief, don't the Asians have an entire continent already? I'm sure there are some top schools in Korea and China that Asian students ought to be able to attend. Asians did not found this country.

LOL! You are a moron.

[Anonymous]

Interesting that graduate school at CalTech is a white majority while undergrad is Asian majority. I wonder why?

Demographics of Caltech student body
Undergraduate Graduate
Caucasian American 31% 43%
Asian American 40% 11%
Underrepresented minority 13% 6%
Other/International 11% 39%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole concept kind of puts Whites in a pickle. For decades, Whites have argued that test scores and the like should be used as the key standard for admission. That is because they knew that they held the “advantage” in regards to AA and Hispanic students. Now that Asians are beating them based on the test score rubric, they now want to embrace the holistic approach to admissions – something that URMs have advocated for decades. Now that Whites are in danger of losing spots based on the same standards that they have pushed, the other standards now have merit?

Well, I will say this and I have said this MANY times. If Asians are successful in this endeavor, those spots will not come from the AA or Hispanic side of the ledger. The people most at risk would be the White students who are mediocre compared to other Whites – the lower end of the White totem pole.

Good grief, don't the Asians have an entire continent already? I'm sure there are some top schools in Korea and China that Asian students ought to be able to attend. Asians did not found this country.

I think you are confusing "Asians" with "Asian Americans" living in the US. Under your logic it would be like saying "don't whites have an entire continent already? I am sure there are some top schools in UK or France that whites ought to be able to attend." Asian Americans immigrated to this country just like you did and whites did.

But the #1 immigrant to the US are Asians. So we are talking about Asians not just Asian Americans. The Asian Americans are in the same pickle as the whites. Many of them are not in desperate enough situations to destroy their children's lives with test prep and piano lessons with Chinese language classes on the weekends.

I think there should be a clear distinction between Asian International applicants and Asian American (plus permanent resident) applicants. The issue is clearly for Asian Americans NOT Asian international students. Asian Americans are entitled to equal protection under the US Constitution whereas international students are probably not. The case was filed on behalf of Asian American applicants who were rejected on racially discriminatory grounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that graduate school at CalTech is a white majority while undergrad is Asian majority. I wonder why?

Demographics of Caltech student body
Undergraduate Graduate
Caucasian American 31% 43%
Asian American 40% 11%
Underrepresented minority 13% 6%
Other/International 11% 39%

Don't leave us hanging. What's your theory?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that graduate school at CalTech is a white majority while undergrad is Asian majority. I wonder why?

Demographics of Caltech student body
Undergraduate Graduate
Caucasian American 31% 43%
Asian American 40% 11%
Underrepresented minority 13% 6%
Other/International 11% 39%

Don't leave us hanging. What's your theory?

My theory is that more Asian Americans are more or less forced to choose Caltech as opposed to other top schools due to Asian quota in undergraduate admissions but there appears to be far less discrimination against Asian Americans and Affirmative Action seems to play a lesser role as well with graduate school admissions. With less discrimination, Asian Americans have more choice as to graduate programs and thus make up lower portion of Caltech graduate school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole concept kind of puts Whites in a pickle. For decades, Whites have argued that test scores and the like should be used as the key standard for admission. That is because they knew that they held the “advantage” in regards to AA and Hispanic students. Now that Asians are beating them based on the test score rubric, they now want to embrace the holistic approach to admissions – something that URMs have advocated for decades. Now that Whites are in danger of losing spots based on the same standards that they have pushed, the other standards now have merit?

Well, I will say this and I have said this MANY times. If Asians are successful in this endeavor, those spots will not come from the AA or Hispanic side of the ledger. The people most at risk would be the White students who are mediocre compared to other Whites – the lower end of the White totem pole.

No, you are making an assumption that there is one homogenous set of "whites" on this issue, and your assumption is wrong. There's one set of "whites" (usually more liberal, tend to run the universities) who have traditionally thought that test scores should not be the primary factor and that URMs should get a leg-up. That's me, that's pretty much everyone I know. Now, we are consistently still saying that that should be the case. (I'd also add the socioeconomic status ought to count -- and at many schools does count.) Whether that takes spaces away from white students, which it probably always has, is not determinative of my view. Whether it takes spaces away from Asian kids is also not determinative of my view. No change, no inconsistency.
Then there's a second set of whites who have traditionally been anti-affirmative action. Those tend to be more conservative. They now still probably think it ought to be that way, where it's just test scores and the like. They also tend to be rich whites who don't like giving up slots to anyone else. Maybe they'll start to turn on the Asians, but haven't seen that yet.
The basic fact is that Asians are not underrepresented in higher education. They're overrepresented. (Simply measuring percentage in higher ed versus percentage of the population.) That's true for whites as well. Thus, I don't think they need an advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that graduate school at CalTech is a white majority while undergrad is Asian majority. I wonder why?

Demographics of Caltech student body
Undergraduate Graduate
Caucasian American 31% 43%
Asian American 40% 11%
Underrepresented minority 13% 6%
Other/International 11% 39%

Don't leave us hanging. What's your theory?

My theory is that more Asian Americans are more or less forced to choose Caltech as opposed to other top schools due to Asian quota in undergraduate admissions but there appears to be far less discrimination against Asian Americans and Affirmative Action seems to play a lesser role as well with graduate school admissions. With less discrimination, Asian Americans have more choice as to graduate programs and thus make up lower portion of Caltech graduate school.

What evidence do you have for the conclusion that there is less discrimination in graduate admissions? Simply that there are more Asians proportionally in grad school? That seems like circular logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that graduate school at CalTech is a white majority while undergrad is Asian majority. I wonder why?

Demographics of Caltech student body
Undergraduate Graduate
Caucasian American 31% 43%
Asian American 40% 11%
Underrepresented minority 13% 6%
Other/International 11% 39%

Don't leave us hanging. What's your theory?

My theory is that more Asian Americans are more or less forced to choose Caltech as opposed to other top schools due to Asian quota in undergraduate admissions but there appears to be far less discrimination against Asian Americans and Affirmative Action seems to play a lesser role as well with graduate school admissions. With less discrimination, Asian Americans have more choice as to graduate programs and thus make up lower portion of Caltech graduate school.

Its really difficult to see how anyone can be forced to go to Caltech given how difficult it is to get in. You are talking small numbers and there is no way that this one school could somehow compensate for all the others.

I would be interested in a breakdown of how many west coast students there are as undergraduates and then as graduates. I think students tend to stay closer to home as undergraduates but are more willing to travel farther as graduate students. Look at the difference in international students. I believe there are a higher percentage of Asians living on the west coast. This is just wild speculation, of course, but so is your theory.