One person wants a prenup and the other does not

[Anonymous]

Given today's divorce statistics, when one gets married you need to plan for what happens if there is a divorce. Doing so does not imply mistrust or the lack of confidence in the marriage. It just recognizes the reality of what happens in today's society. You are entering into a partnership which has a 50% chance of failing.

A prenup is the surest way to avoid conflict right at the point when things are the most emotional and fraught with animosity. Work out the details while the relationship is amicable. Getting lawyers involved in litigation when one seeks a divorce is expensive beyond belief and both sides lose out.

If there is a large income disparity then work out ahead of time how that should be reflected in any divorce.

With regard to any business irrespective of whether it was in existence before or after the marriage, it should go to the primary operator of the business. Believe me when I say it is a fricking nightmare to attempt to value a private concern as part of a divorce. You will have experts on both sides coming up with their views on valuation and ultimately a judge will make a decision which may or may not comport with reality. One agrees ahead of time how the valuation needs to be worked out and that formula will prevail. It has to be simple and reasonable.

We have a prenup that essentially reflects our current financial arrangement. There is a substantial income discrepancy between us. We pay all common expenses in proportion to our incomes. The balance accrues to each individual. Personal expenses are paid individually from our respective accounts. In the event of a divorce, each person's savings will go to that individual. Real estate will be divided in proportion to the amounts that were paid by each person towards the mortgage.

If either party litigates the specifics of the prenup or attempts to overturn the prenup and loses he/she will be liable for the legal fees of both parties.

We have been married for over 12 years and the likelihood of a divorce is slim ........ but if it happens we know exactly how the assets will be divided.

[Anonymous]

^^^ This reminds me of that couple from The Joy Luck Club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a feeling OP won't post an update.

OP here. There is nothing to update, sorry. I am still thinking about it. He really isn't a jerk, at all. He isn't the least bit controlling. He is however, all about money.

Are you really this dense? Is your self-esteem that low? He is attempting to CONTROL all the money that is earned INSIDE the marriage! That is very much controlling behavior. For the hundredth time, that's not how marriage works. What is earned by either spouse is jointly divided regardless of who brought the money in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Given today's divorce statistics, when one gets married you need to plan for what happens if there is a divorce. Doing so does not imply mistrust or the lack of confidence in the marriage. It just recognizes the reality of what happens in today's society. You are entering into a partnership which has a 50% chance of failing.

A prenup is the surest way to avoid conflict right at the point when things are the most emotional and fraught with animosity. Work out the details while the relationship is amicable. Getting lawyers involved in litigation when one seeks a divorce is expensive beyond belief and both sides lose out.

If there is a large income disparity then work out ahead of time how that should be reflected in any divorce.

With regard to any business irrespective of whether it was in existence before or after the marriage, it should go to the primary operator of the business. Believe me when I say it is a fricking nightmare to attempt to value a private concern as part of a divorce. You will have experts on both sides coming up with their views on valuation and ultimately a judge will make a decision which may or may not comport with reality. One agrees ahead of time how the valuation needs to be worked out and that formula will prevail. It has to be simple and reasonable.

We have a prenup that essentially reflects our current financial arrangement. There is a substantial income discrepancy between us. We pay all common expenses in proportion to our incomes. The balance accrues to each individual. Personal expenses are paid individually from our respective accounts. In the event of a divorce, each person's savings will go to that individual. Real estate will be divided in proportion to the amounts that were paid by each person towards the mortgage.

If either party litigates the specifics of the prenup or attempts to overturn the prenup and loses he/she will be liable for the legal fees of both parties.

We have been married for over 12 years and the likelihood of a divorce is slim ........ but if it happens we know exactly how the assets will be divided.

Very sensible approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Given today's divorce statistics, when one gets married you need to plan for what happens if there is a divorce. Doing so does not imply mistrust or the lack of confidence in the marriage. It just recognizes the reality of what happens in today's society. You are entering into a partnership which has a 50% chance of failing.

A prenup is the surest way to avoid conflict right at the point when things are the most emotional and fraught with animosity. Work out the details while the relationship is amicable. Getting lawyers involved in litigation when one seeks a divorce is expensive beyond belief and both sides lose out.

If there is a large income disparity then work out ahead of time how that should be reflected in any divorce.

With regard to any business irrespective of whether it was in existence before or after the marriage, it should go to the primary operator of the business. Believe me when I say it is a fricking nightmare to attempt to value a private concern as part of a divorce. You will have experts on both sides coming up with their views on valuation and ultimately a judge will make a decision which may or may not comport with reality. One agrees ahead of time how the valuation needs to be worked out and that formula will prevail. It has to be simple and reasonable.

We have a prenup that essentially reflects our current financial arrangement. There is a substantial income discrepancy between us. We pay all common expenses in proportion to our incomes. The balance accrues to each individual. Personal expenses are paid individually from our respective accounts. In the event of a divorce, each person's savings will go to that individual. Real estate will be divided in proportion to the amounts that were paid by each person towards the mortgage.

If either party litigates the specifics of the prenup or attempts to overturn the prenup and loses he/she will be liable for the legal fees of both parties.

We have been married for over 12 years and the likelihood of a divorce is slim ........ but if it happens we know exactly how the assets will be divided.

The likelihood of divorce among middle-class white people with a college degree is nowhere near 50%.

For your particular scenario, I am curious how the female in your marriage was compensated for pregnancy, childbirth and nursing, if they happened. Or was that your/her charitable contribution to the business partnership of your marriage? How is housework and childcare split and valued? Also, if one of you goes through bankruptcy or personal debt, how is the other party's income/assets protected against creditor liens?

[Anonymous]

Another option would be to find a divorce mediator and have them help you work this out. They would cost less than an attorney and actually can provide valuations for all of these things.
There is a good guy in Rockville.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given today's divorce statistics, when one gets married you need to plan for what happens if there is a divorce. Doing so does not imply mistrust or the lack of confidence in the marriage. It just recognizes the reality of what happens in today's society. You are entering into a partnership which has a 50% chance of failing.

A prenup is the surest way to avoid conflict right at the point when things are the most emotional and fraught with animosity. Work out the details while the relationship is amicable. Getting lawyers involved in litigation when one seeks a divorce is expensive beyond belief and both sides lose out.

If there is a large income disparity then work out ahead of time how that should be reflected in any divorce.

With regard to any business irrespective of whether it was in existence before or after the marriage, it should go to the primary operator of the business. Believe me when I say it is a fricking nightmare to attempt to value a private concern as part of a divorce. You will have experts on both sides coming up with their views on valuation and ultimately a judge will make a decision which may or may not comport with reality. One agrees ahead of time how the valuation needs to be worked out and that formula will prevail. It has to be simple and reasonable.

We have a prenup that essentially reflects our current financial arrangement. There is a substantial income discrepancy between us. We pay all common expenses in proportion to our incomes. The balance accrues to each individual. Personal expenses are paid individually from our respective accounts. In the event of a divorce, each person's savings will go to that individual. Real estate will be divided in proportion to the amounts that were paid by each person towards the mortgage.

If either party litigates the specifics of the prenup or attempts to overturn the prenup and loses he/she will be liable for the legal fees of both parties.

We have been married for over 12 years and the likelihood of a divorce is slim ........ but if it happens we know exactly how the assets will be divided.

Very sensible approach.

Hmm sounds very reasonable on paper and as far as money goes, but there is no mention of family. How are you putting a price tag on that? My dh and I both work, he makes more and works longer hours. I do all of the parenting, driving to schools etc. if we divided up the kids like you are dividing assets, he would never see the kids again with that same split system. Actually he sees them about an hour a weekday and then a little on weekends, so I guess he could have 15% visitation time with the kids. I don't think he would be happy with that. Marriage is not simply a business arrangement, that's messed up!

[Anonymous]

Very sensible approach.

Hmm sounds very reasonable on paper and as far as money goes, but there is no mention of family. How are you putting a price tag on that? My dh and I both work, he makes more and works longer hours. I do all of the parenting, driving to schools etc. if we divided up the kids like you are dividing assets, he would never see the kids again with that same split system. Actually he sees them about an hour a weekday and then a little on weekends, so I guess he could have 15% visitation time with the kids. I don't think he would be happy with that. Marriage is not simply a business arrangement, that's messed up!

And to take that argument one step further, if their family were paying for full-time childcare, those assets would be minimum 45k less per year, not counting after school trips, sports, weekend parties, etc. Any divorce settlement values that functional contribution according to a market value. If OP took this to a lawyer, they would laugh, because the pre-nup is trying to rewrite the standard approach. She is very foolish to give it any consideration, but at the same time, until you have children, you have no idea how much daily effort it takes, especially in the first few years. They are both idiots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No businesses owned. He makes more money than I. Any businesses that he creates in the marriage, he wants. No alimony. If I contribute, say 20 percent towards house bills, then in a divorce, that's what I get towards the house.

Dump his sorry ass

+ 1000!

A marriage is a partnership...not just a financial arrangement. What if you have children? What if you stay home for a few years to take care of the children? You are still contributing to the family and the partnership. What if your remodel the house using your labor? What if you get very ill or disabled? What then? Stuff happens.

he sounds like a selfish son of a gun and I would fly like the wind. What a jerk.

The only time I think a prenup is in order is if there is a huge family business/money on one side OR if the two spouses are middle aged with adult children and they want to make sure that their individual assets go to their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women will rant about prenups, etc until the day when they are earning an amount comparable to men.

Then you'll see a turnaround with arguments that assets should be split in line with the income contributions of each person in the marriage. For now, while there is a discrepancy look for them to insist that the gravy train should continue. They will use all sorts of high-minded reasons but the reality is that they are after money.

Money was one of the primary drivers when they looked for a husband and it will be the primary driver when they seek a divorce settlement. A prenup throws a wrench in the works and that is why they are so up in arms on this and other similar threads.

+1,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women will rant about prenups, etc until the day when they are earning an amount comparable to men.

Then you'll see a turnaround with arguments that assets should be split in line with the income contributions of each person in the marriage. For now, while there is a discrepancy look for them to insist that the gravy train should continue. They will use all sorts of high-minded reasons but the reality is that they are after money.

Money was one of the primary drivers when they looked for a husband and it will be the primary driver when they seek a divorce settlement. A prenup throws a wrench in the works and that is why they are so up in arms on this and other similar threads.

+1,000.

+10000000000000000000000000000000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My sister is married to an a-hole like this and it is a constant battle.

She didn't have to marry him, after all. Sounds like your sister is an idiot. Thems the breaks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women will rant about prenups, etc until the day when they are earning an amount comparable to men.

Then you'll see a turnaround with arguments that assets should be split in line with the income contributions of each person in the marriage. For now, while there is a discrepancy look for them to insist that the gravy train should continue. They will use all sorts of high-minded reasons but the reality is that they are after money.

Money was one of the primary drivers when they looked for a husband and it will be the primary driver when they seek a divorce settlement. A prenup throws a wrench in the works and that is why they are so up in arms on this and other similar threads.

+1,000.

+10000000000000000000000000000000

That's true. But not in the same way you're implying.

I'll also add that women will rant about prenups until the day fathers put the same amount of time and effort into parenting (just look at all the posts around here about how "I just didn't bond with my baby the way my wife did," "I don't know how to entertain a toddler," "I'm finally feeling like having a relationship with my child at the age of 4," "she's just so much more nurturing than I am.") All of that is bullshit. And it's prevalent. So yes, women will stop ranting about prenups when men act like more than sperm donors until it's more convenient for them to finally wake up and realize they have kids.

No kids? I don't give a crap about prenups. Sign away, but the minute you have kids all bets are off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a feeling OP won't post an update.

OP here. There is nothing to update, sorry. I am still thinking about it. He really isn't a jerk, at all. He isn't the least bit controlling. He is however, all about money.

I believe you. Have you talked to him about it since he first brought it up? Have things changed between you two in the last few days?
Do you have a date for the wedding?

Also, if he is all about money, why is he marrying you? Seriously, ask him. You are a student (right?) and you're planning to be a stay at home mom. You have no earning potential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
a. A 20K dazzler to show off his status and his hot fiancee
or
b. a fake CZ or "antique" ring costing $600 or less that he can pawn off on her for another few months of good sex until he really kicks her to the curb.

3. If they are not actually engaged, if they are just living together, she is getting the first nudge out the door.

If I ever get married, I'm buying my fiancee the biggest CZ ring she's ever seen.