Predicting spousal support

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be honest, you didn't really want to work all that much and preferred being home with the kids rather than enduring corporate or office drudgery. It's a totally fine and understandable preference, but own it. You were relieved that husband's high salary could accommodate that lifestyle preference even if it could potentially end up in a result like this. Well, welcome to the result...

Time to start taking accountability for your choices and preferences and, ultimately, life by probably getting a job now rather than fretting too much over a spousal support settlement.

STOP THIS MISOGYNISTIC BS. IT’S SO GOD DAMNED TIRED.

Sorry the truth hurts. Most of these women would work dead end retail jobs for the rest of their lives.

This area is the most highly educated in the country. Many women who stay home have graduate and professional degrees. It is super common. Your circle must be a huge outlier if that is what you think about women in this area.

At look at the attrition rate of women who finish medical school and then are ready to downgrade or drop out of the profession after 5 years. Education and credentials do not change the original premise that the preference for a lot of these women is to not work outside of the home. They dress it up it whatever language about "sacrifice" they need to to save face because the prevailing zeitgeist and their peers would look down upon them making such a choice. Easier to shift those negative feelings toward big, bad hubby.

It’s not “after five years.” It’s “after having children.”
And I can guarantee you that it’s not a “preference to be home.” It is the hubby who pays lip service to helping out, but he doesn’t.
It doesn’t even have to be your husband. It might be your chair who thinks that women are going to want to be home with their kids, and so he takes the program you started or the fellowship you put into place or the multi-site research study you initiated and got through the IRB and puts a man in charge of it and gives you a secondary role.

Read the book “Opting Out.”

Nope, you're wrong. 40% leave altogether or go part time within 6 years (not 5) of leaving residency. Look at that mountain of excuses you're rolling out.

Yes. People finish residency at about 30 years old. Six years after that, they are 36. That’s. when. women. have. babies.

What’s the mountain of excuses? I gave you a book to read. Did you read it?

"It's not after 5 years". Maybe you need to read a book...

Sure. What book do you have with women physicians saying that they are sorry they went into the profession because they prefer to not to work?

Again, this is not what I see with the early career physicians I mentor.

Read the thread. On average, more would rather be home with their babies. They just aren't going to readily admit it in this climate, especially after all of that time spent in education, hence...the mountain of excuses and pretzel logic, that I'm sure you're about to trot out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be honest, you didn't really want to work all that much and preferred being home with the kids rather than enduring corporate or office drudgery. It's a totally fine and understandable preference, but own it. You were relieved that husband's high salary could accommodate that lifestyle preference even if it could potentially end up in a result like this. Well, welcome to the result...

Time to start taking accountability for your choices and preferences and, ultimately, life by probably getting a job now rather than fretting too much over a spousal support settlement.

STOP THIS MISOGYNISTIC BS. IT’S SO GOD DAMNED TIRED.

Sorry the truth hurts. Most of these women would work dead end retail jobs for the rest of their lives.

This area is the most highly educated in the country. Many women who stay home have graduate and professional degrees. It is super common. Your circle must be a huge outlier if that is what you think about women in this area.

At look at the attrition rate of women who finish medical school and then are ready to downgrade or drop out of the profession after 5 years. Education and credentials do not change the original premise that the preference for a lot of these women is to not work outside of the home. They dress it up it whatever language about "sacrifice" they need to to save face because the prevailing zeitgeist and their peers would look down upon them making such a choice. Easier to shift those negative feelings toward big, bad hubby.

It’s not “after five years.” It’s “after having children.”
And I can guarantee you that it’s not a “preference to be home.” It is the hubby who pays lip service to helping out, but he doesn’t.
It doesn’t even have to be your husband. It might be your chair who thinks that women are going to want to be home with their kids, and so he takes the program you started or the fellowship you put into place or the multi-site research study you initiated and got through the IRB and puts a man in charge of it and gives you a secondary role.

Read the book “Opting Out.”

Nope, you're wrong. 40% leave altogether or go part time within 6 years (not 5) of leaving residency. Look at that mountain of excuses you're rolling out.

Yes. People finish residency at about 30 years old. Six years after that, they are 36. That’s. when. women. have. babies.

What’s the mountain of excuses? I gave you a book to read. Did you read it?

"It's not after 5 years". Maybe you need to read a book...

Sure. What book do you have with women physicians saying that they are sorry they went into the profession because they prefer to not to work?

Again, this is not what I see with the early career physicians I mentor.

Read the thread. On average, more would rather be home with their babies. They just aren't going to readily admit it in this climate, especially after all of that time spent in education, hence...the mountain of excuses and pretzel logic, that I'm sure you're about to trot out.

P.S., I mentor many male doctors who hate dealing with patients and the grind, but don't have the option of just dipping out like their female counterparts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Virginia is the wild west when it comes to divorce and predictability. In general, the courts favor the lower earning or non working spouse, regardless of the actual circumstances, so long as it's the wife. I will never let my son live in VA out of fear that he'd one day get divorced there.

Tell me more about this. What if the wife is the high earner, the person who does the doctor's appointments, manages the IEP process for special needs child, can demonstrate that they do most of the grocery, target runs, and also buy all of the kids' clothes? Basically the lower earning peter pan doesn't do much. How does VA treat them? asking for a friend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After 20 years you will get alimony for life.

That doesn’t really play out in reality.

I’m not in VA but in a very alimony friendly state if you’ve been married a long time. Married 25 years so according to the guidelines I could have gotten it for life. I got the equivalent of 8 years upfront. Ours is a complicated situation and it wasn’t in cash but the equivalent of 8 years. We mediated and did not go to court so we just had to agree. The only reason I agreed is I ended up with significant assets. Enough that I don’t have to work if I don’t want to. I haven’t worked for 18 years.

Alimony is a crap shoot. It’s much better if you can work something out between the two of you vs going to court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After 20 years you will get alimony for life.

That doesn’t really play out in reality.

I’m not in VA but in a very alimony friendly state if you’ve been married a long time. Married 25 years so according to the guidelines I could have gotten it for life. I got the equivalent of 8 years upfront. Ours is a complicated situation and it wasn’t in cash but the equivalent of 8 years. We mediated and did not go to court so we just had to agree. The only reason I agreed is I ended up with significant assets. Enough that I don’t have to work if I don’t want to. I haven’t worked for 18 years.

Alimony is a crap shoot. It’s much better if you can work something out between the two of you vs going to court.

I also have 2 friends in similar situations. They both went to court. One got nothing. The other got 8 years at the midrange of the scale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Virginia is the wild west when it comes to divorce and predictability. In general, the courts favor the lower earning or non working spouse, regardless of the actual circumstances, so long as it's the wife. I will never let my son live in VA out of fear that he'd one day get divorced there.

I know several men who have received alimony & child support , as the lower earner in the marriage.

In all cases but one, the wife did more in terms of childcare/household responsibilities too (as is the case in most families). Was not relevant. I believe alimony is often awarded even if there are no kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Virginia is the wild west when it comes to divorce and predictability. In general, the courts favor the lower earning or non working spouse, regardless of the actual circumstances, so long as it's the wife. I will never let my son live in VA out of fear that he'd one day get divorced there.

So your plan is to research the alimony laws in each jurisdiction and then forbid your grown child from living in certain ones in case he pays slightly more in a hypothetical divorce than he might have in a different jurisdiction?

This seems . . . extreme.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After 20 years you will get alimony for life.

That doesn’t really play out in reality.

I’m not in VA but in a very alimony friendly state if you’ve been married a long time. Married 25 years so according to the guidelines I could have gotten it for life. I got the equivalent of 8 years upfront. Ours is a complicated situation and it wasn’t in cash but the equivalent of 8 years. We mediated and did not go to court so we just had to agree. The only reason I agreed is I ended up with significant assets. Enough that I don’t have to work if I don’t want to. I haven’t worked for 18 years.

Alimony is a crap shoot. It’s much better if you can work something out between the two of you vs going to court.

OP here. Attorney says that I could get indefinite but it would have to be modifiable. Or I could ask for a defined time and not have it be modifiable and he would have to petition if he needed to change it.

I am oversimplifying this but I feel like with a 20 year marriage i should ask for 20 years of support. Consulting with my attorney but any thoughts out there?

[Anonymous]

That sounds fair to me. It's reasonable and should be enough to keep you supported. I also like the idea of definite time and not modifiable unless petitioned. Also think about how long DH will be making the salary he makes. Don't assume it's forever, especially if it's a high leadership position. You should broach that with your attorney as well.

Lots of things are negotiable here - alimony, assets, pension, deferred compensation, 401k, any investments, residence, etc. Also, bring up to your attorney if you helped your DH with any educational expenses.

On another note, I am certain I'm pretty naïve here but I don't understand how someone leaves a 20 year marriage and doesn't want what's best for their spouse especially if there was no cheating, abuse, addiction, fraud, etc. I just don't get it. They're still your kids parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a similar situation as a SAHM. Are there any lawyers (Fairfax County) that are especially good at representing women in this kind of situation?

OP here. I wish we could talk.

OP, I am the poster who is a SAHM in a similar situation (in case my reply doesn't link to the post). I wish we could talk, too, but I don't know how to do that on this forum without posting personal contact information (which I don't want to do, and I'm not sure the platform will even allow).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Virginia is the wild west when it comes to divorce and predictability. In general, the courts favor the lower earning or non working spouse, regardless of the actual circumstances, so long as it's the wife. I will never let my son live in VA out of fear that he'd one day get divorced there.

I know several men who have received alimony & child support , as the lower earner in the marriage.

In all cases but one, the wife did more in terms of childcare/household responsibilities too (as is the case in most families). Was not relevant. I believe alimony is often awarded even if there are no kids.

I'm a woman and had to pay alimony in VA, no kids. He did nothing to further my career and he benefitted from my higher salary during our marriage and I still had to pay him alimony. Three years, married ages 27-30 (me) and 31-34 (him).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a SAHM, let me just say that my DH wanted me to stay home. It was very important to him, and very important to me. If he decides he wants a divorce and won’t do anything to fix our marriage, I don’t think I should get screwed financially. I have been out of work the last 20 years. He had been able to travel, go to work functions, network, etc. He has never had to miss a night of sleep, to take care of a sick kid, never had to go to a dr apt, school conference or playdate. He doesn’t do our lawn care, clean, pay our taxes, or pay any bills. He doesn’t cook, grocery shop, or do laundry. He doesn’t buy a single gift, plan a party, or keep track of social obligations. So yes, I have no monetary value, but my life made his life possible and because of that investment I made, I deserve half.

That's nice, but that doesn't mean that's what you will get if you divorce. SAHMS often wind up screwed over after divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be honest, you didn't really want to work all that much and preferred being home with the kids rather than enduring corporate or office drudgery. It's a totally fine and understandable preference, but own it. You were relieved that husband's high salary could accommodate that lifestyle preference even if it could potentially end up in a result like this. Well, welcome to the result...

Time to start taking accountability for your choices and preferences and, ultimately, life by probably getting a job now rather than fretting too much over a spousal support settlement.

STOP THIS MISOGYNISTIC BS. IT’S SO GOD DAMNED TIRED.

Sorry the truth hurts. Most of these women would work dead end retail jobs for the rest of their lives.

This area is the most highly educated in the country. Many women who stay home have graduate and professional degrees. It is super common. Your circle must be a huge outlier if that is what you think about women in this area.

At look at the attrition rate of women who finish medical school and then are ready to downgrade or drop out of the profession after 5 years. Education and credentials do not change the original premise that the preference for a lot of these women is to not work outside of the home. They dress it up it whatever language about "sacrifice" they need to to save face because the prevailing zeitgeist and their peers would look down upon them making such a choice. Easier to shift those negative feelings toward big, bad hubby.

It’s not “after five years.” It’s “after having children.”
And I can guarantee you that it’s not a “preference to be home.” It is the hubby who pays lip service to helping out, but he doesn’t.
It doesn’t even have to be your husband. It might be your chair who thinks that women are going to want to be home with their kids, and so he takes the program you started or the fellowship you put into place or the multi-site research study you initiated and got through the IRB and puts a man in charge of it and gives you a secondary role.

Read the book “Opting Out.”

Nope, you're wrong. 40% leave altogether or go part time within 6 years (not 5) of leaving residency. Look at that mountain of excuses you're rolling out.

Yes. People finish residency at about 30 years old. Six years after that, they are 36. That’s. when. women. have. babies.

What’s the mountain of excuses? I gave you a book to read. Did you read it?

"It's not after 5 years". Maybe you need to read a book...

Sure. What book do you have with women physicians saying that they are sorry they went into the profession because they prefer to not to work?

Again, this is not what I see with the early career physicians I mentor.

Read the thread. On average, more would rather be home with their babies. They just aren't going to readily admit it in this climate, especially after all of that time spent in education, hence...the mountain of excuses and pretzel logic, that I'm sure you're about to trot out.

Are you a dude? I disageee most women would rather be home with their kids. Kids are hard work and working is easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Be honest, you didn't really want to work all that much and preferred being home with the kids rather than enduring corporate or office drudgery. It's a totally fine and understandable preference, but own it. You were relieved that husband's high salary could accommodate that lifestyle preference even if it could potentially end up in a result like this. Well, welcome to the result...

Time to start taking accountability for your choices and preferences and, ultimately, life by probably getting a job now rather than fretting too much over a spousal support settlement.

Who cares? WTF does it matter if OP preferred being home with the kids to being in an office? How is it your business? And you do not know what the OP and her spouse agreed when she reduced her hours to be a more accessible parent.

I really dislike this sort of speculation and finger pointing with heavy judgement dripping from your words.

I'm the higher earner at home. And yeah, I'd prefer to stay at home with my kids. But we make choices that are best for our family at that time. So STFU and stop judging other people, please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a similar situation as a SAHM. Are there any lawyers (Fairfax County) that are especially good at representing women in this kind of situation?

OP here. I wish we could talk.

OP, I am the poster who is a SAHM in a similar situation (in case my reply doesn't link to the post). I wish we could talk, too, but I don't know how to do that on this forum without posting personal contact information (which I don't want to do, and I'm not sure the platform will even allow).

I was in a very similar situation and the relief when it was finally settled was enormous. It was a very painful, stressful time. I'm sorry you're both dealing with this.

I think you can post a throwaway email address and connect that way. I've not tried it and it's not foolproof, since you still won't know exactly who you're talking to. Booooo.