Has the Coalition for TJ (or any other groups) considered another lawsuit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Reposting what we do know about TJ test prep...


There was enough concern in the community about test prep companies "cracking the test" that they changed the test/process multiple times over the years. Affluent families who could afford these programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

Examples of various test prep companies harvesting test questions and sharing with others.
https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.

https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos



Kids from affluent families who attend these test prep programs have an unfair advantage. The test prep companies are constantly trying to "crack the test". They ask students to share details/questions about the tests and then share that info with other students.

Thanks again for posting this detailed evidence which has been shared dozens of times. This settles the matter once and for all!

And just to be clear NONEof these links are to evidence that anyone cheated or bought answers or any of the other things that are claimed.
for
Studying is not cheating.

Affluent parents were paying for outside enrichment and test prep that sometimes included questions/answers from previous tests. This gave their kids an unfair advantage.

For quant-Q, the kids agreed to an NDA. It’s unethical, perhaps even illegal, for them to share details about the test with test prep companies who used the info for their own commercial purposes.

The school board changed the admissions process multiple times because of the unfair and/or unethical behavior of some families.

It was pay to play cheating, and I for one am glad the board of education put an end to it.

PSAT math scores would be the ideal test. Free prep is available for everyone. If it was possible that prep would guarantee a high score, way more high schoolers would be scoring in the 1500's on the PSAT/SAT. Students with the highest level of math form each middle school should receive bonus points. Any student in Algebra 2 or higher in middle school will run out of options for math classes at their local high school. I'm not saying automatically admit anyone with higher levels of math, just give bonus points the same way bonus points are given for ELL and FARMS. This will help identify students from each middle school who have already proven to be advanced in math without giving 100% preference for these students. Math SOL scores should also be looked at. Any student who hasn't passed advanced on the math SOL in 7th grade is not ready for the rigor of TJHSST. All students have access to SOL Pass through FCPS.

No outside testing. Just use SOLs as data points.

We don't want to encourage families to game the system.

Are you under the impression that you can't study for the SOLs?
Also, studying is not "gaming the system"
That is just something parents with kids that don't study tell themselves so they can continue to think they are good parents despite the fact their kids don't study.

My TJ kid always “studied” whatever was needed to get solid As in the classes she was taking in school. What she did not do was non-school math. That means she was “only” on the Alg 1 in 7th track as out AAP center didn’t really do Alg in 6th.

I support using SOLs. It would be an objective measure and tied to kids doing well in school offered math including the typical advanced tracks via school.

I get it, you want "your kid" to be the standard.
But the standard is not "your kid" n the standard is (or should be) excellence.

If you make SOLs the criteria for TJ admissions, what makes you think people won't start studying for SOLs?
We will start seeing large populations of perfect SOL scores.
There is NO method of evaluation that people will not be able to improve through effort and trying to remove the benefits of effort seems like a fool's game.

The PSAT is a better method because the prep is so well understood that a cursory search of the internet will provide a lot of free material
It's not as good as having a tutor hold your hand through the process but in the end, you take the test, not your tutor.
YOU have to master the material.
This is why we don't see differences between poor and rich kids with the same SAT score in colleges.

https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

No. The PSAT adds extra layers of complexity creating barriers for lower-income kids. Which is probably why you keep pushing it. Gotta hoard those opportunities, amirite?

We can give every 8th grader the PSAT. Many states do.

Yet another test? No.

If SOLs don’t work then skip it. Stick to the current process.

SOLs will work but it creates more opportunity for tutoring to have an effect.
The PSAT has the benefit of decades of worth of prep material that is freely or cheaply accessed.

Standardized tests are pretty much the gold standard of all academic evaluation.
People don't like standardized tests these days because they don't like who is getting which scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Reposting what we do know about TJ test prep...


There was enough concern in the community about test prep companies "cracking the test" that they changed the test/process multiple times over the years. Affluent families who could afford these programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

Examples of various test prep companies harvesting test questions and sharing with others.
https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.

https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos



Kids from affluent families who attend these test prep programs have an unfair advantage. The test prep companies are constantly trying to "crack the test". They ask students to share details/questions about the tests and then share that info with other students.

Thanks again for posting this detailed evidence which has been shared dozens of times. This settles the matter once and for all!

And just to be clear NONEof these links are to evidence that anyone cheated or bought answers or any of the other things that are claimed.
for
Studying is not cheating.

Affluent parents were paying for outside enrichment and test prep that sometimes included questions/answers from previous tests. This gave their kids an unfair advantage.

For quant-Q, the kids agreed to an NDA. It’s unethical, perhaps even illegal, for them to share details about the test with test prep companies who used the info for their own commercial purposes.

The school board changed the admissions process multiple times because of the unfair and/or unethical behavior of some families.

It was pay to play cheating, and I for one am glad the board of education put an end to it.

PSAT math scores would be the ideal test. Free prep is available for everyone. If it was possible that prep would guarantee a high score, way more high schoolers would be scoring in the 1500's on the PSAT/SAT. Students with the highest level of math form each middle school should receive bonus points. Any student in Algebra 2 or higher in middle school will run out of options for math classes at their local high school. I'm not saying automatically admit anyone with higher levels of math, just give bonus points the same way bonus points are given for ELL and FARMS. This will help identify students from each middle school who have already proven to be advanced in math without giving 100% preference for these students. Math SOL scores should also be looked at. Any student who hasn't passed advanced on the math SOL in 7th grade is not ready for the rigor of TJHSST. All students have access to SOL Pass through FCPS.

No outside testing. Just use SOLs as data points.

We don't want to encourage families to game the system.

Are you under the impression that you can't study for the SOLs?
Also, studying is not "gaming the system"
That is just something parents with kids that don't study tell themselves so they can continue to think they are good parents despite the fact their kids don't study.

If your kid needs a tutor to do well for SOLs, then your kid isn’t academically advanced.

Pushing kids beyond their natural abilities and interests just because you want them to go to a certain school is gaming the system.

Studying is not pushing a kid beyond their "natural ability"
If you're not pushing your kid to study harder then don't complain when kids that do study harder get further.
Hard work just provides a huge advantage over relying on "natural ability"

You are welcome to sign your kids up for a ton of expensive enrichment if they need the extra help. But if you were doing it with the goal of admission to TJ then you were gaming the system.

It was well known in affluent circles how to give your kid the best chance of getting in - test prep centers.

It was pay-to-play.

Studying is not gaming the system any more than swim practice is gaming the swim competitions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Reposting what we do know about TJ test prep...


There was enough concern in the community about test prep companies "cracking the test" that they changed the test/process multiple times over the years. Affluent families who could afford these programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

Examples of various test prep companies harvesting test questions and sharing with others.
https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.

https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos



Kids from affluent families who attend these test prep programs have an unfair advantage. The test prep companies are constantly trying to "crack the test". They ask students to share details/questions about the tests and then share that info with other students.

Thanks again for posting this detailed evidence which has been shared dozens of times. This settles the matter once and for all!

And just to be clear NONEof these links are to evidence that anyone cheated or bought answers or any of the other things that are claimed.
for
Studying is not cheating.

Affluent parents were paying for outside enrichment and test prep that sometimes included questions/answers from previous tests. This gave their kids an unfair advantage.

For quant-Q, the kids agreed to an NDA. It’s unethical, perhaps even illegal, for them to share details about the test with test prep companies who used the info for their own commercial purposes.

The school board changed the admissions process multiple times because of the unfair and/or unethical behavior of some families.

It was pay to play cheating, and I for one am glad the board of education put an end to it.

PSAT math scores would be the ideal test. Free prep is available for everyone. If it was possible that prep would guarantee a high score, way more high schoolers would be scoring in the 1500's on the PSAT/SAT. Students with the highest level of math form each middle school should receive bonus points. Any student in Algebra 2 or higher in middle school will run out of options for math classes at their local high school. I'm not saying automatically admit anyone with higher levels of math, just give bonus points the same way bonus points are given for ELL and FARMS. This will help identify students from each middle school who have already proven to be advanced in math without giving 100% preference for these students. Math SOL scores should also be looked at. Any student who hasn't passed advanced on the math SOL in 7th grade is not ready for the rigor of TJHSST. All students have access to SOL Pass through FCPS.

No outside testing. Just use SOLs as data points.

We don't want to encourage families to game the system.

Are you under the impression that you can't study for the SOLs?
Also, studying is not "gaming the system"
That is just something parents with kids that don't study tell themselves so they can continue to think they are good parents despite the fact their kids don't study.

If your kid needs a tutor to do well for SOLs, then your kid isn’t academically advanced.

Pushing kids beyond their natural abilities and interests just because you want them to go to a certain school is gaming the system.

Studying is not pushing a kid beyond their "natural ability"
If you're not pushing your kid to study harder then don't complain when kids that do study harder get further.
Hard work just provides a huge advantage over relying on "natural ability"

You are welcome to sign your kids up for a ton of expensive enrichment if they need the extra help. But if you were doing it with the goal of admission to TJ then you were gaming the system.

It was well known in affluent circles how to give your kid the best chance of getting in - test prep centers.

It was pay-to-play.

I agree and I'm fine with kids taking enrichment and studying. I feel the county's resolution to pick the top students from each school was a great solution since it addressed this very problem and insured that all residents have a fair shot at programs like TJ not just students from a few wealthy schools.

They all had the same shot before. Now they have a random shot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The TJ admissions policy is discriminating against students based on their national origin. Giving bonus "experience" points to students who are ELLs is a form of discrimination against students who are born in the United States and therefore are most likely to speak English. Equating speaking a foreign language has been used in lawsuits before to show discrimination based on national origin.

A student with a perfect score of 900 on the TJ admissions scoresheet can't compete with a student who scored 871, but received 30 bonus points due to ELL status. This is 100% discrimination against students with United States as their national origin.

Did you know when you choose a side salad with your entree instead of a burger you have discriminated against the burger?

Most discrimination is perfectly fine.

in the context of ELL getting bonus points, it's discriminating against native english speakers. Possibly ok 10 years ago, but I think it would be struck down now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The TJ admissions policy is discriminating against students based on their national origin. Giving bonus "experience" points to students who are ELLs is a form of discrimination against students who are born in the United States and therefore are most likely to speak English. Equating speaking a foreign language has been used in lawsuits before to show discrimination based on national origin.

A student with a perfect score of 900 on the TJ admissions scoresheet can't compete with a student who scored 871, but received 30 bonus points due to ELL status. This is 100% discrimination against students with United States as their national origin.

Did you know when you choose a side salad with your entree instead of a burger you have discriminated against the burger?

Most discrimination is perfectly fine.

in the context of ELL getting bonus points, it's discriminating against native english speakers. Possibly ok 10 years ago, but I think it would be struck down now

DP.

I don't think ELL is a particularly compelling category of students to try to get into TJ.
However it is probably harder to do well on a test if you can't speak the language the test is administered in.
The only time Einstein failed a math test it was given in French and his french was marginal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Reposting what we do know about TJ test prep...


There was enough concern in the community about test prep companies "cracking the test" that they changed the test/process multiple times over the years. Affluent families who could afford these programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

Examples of various test prep companies harvesting test questions and sharing with others.
https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.

https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos



Kids from affluent families who attend these test prep programs have an unfair advantage. The test prep companies are constantly trying to "crack the test". They ask students to share details/questions about the tests and then share that info with other students.

Thanks again for posting this detailed evidence which has been shared dozens of times. This settles the matter once and for all!

And just to be clear NONEof these links are to evidence that anyone cheated or bought answers or any of the other things that are claimed.
for
Studying is not cheating.

Affluent parents were paying for outside enrichment and test prep that sometimes included questions/answers from previous tests. This gave their kids an unfair advantage.

For quant-Q, the kids agreed to an NDA. It’s unethical, perhaps even illegal, for them to share details about the test with test prep companies who used the info for their own commercial purposes.

The school board changed the admissions process multiple times because of the unfair and/or unethical behavior of some families.

It was pay to play cheating, and I for one am glad the board of education put an end to it.

PSAT math scores would be the ideal test. Free prep is available for everyone. If it was possible that prep would guarantee a high score, way more high schoolers would be scoring in the 1500's on the PSAT/SAT. Students with the highest level of math form each middle school should receive bonus points. Any student in Algebra 2 or higher in middle school will run out of options for math classes at their local high school. I'm not saying automatically admit anyone with higher levels of math, just give bonus points the same way bonus points are given for ELL and FARMS. This will help identify students from each middle school who have already proven to be advanced in math without giving 100% preference for these students. Math SOL scores should also be looked at. Any student who hasn't passed advanced on the math SOL in 7th grade is not ready for the rigor of TJHSST. All students have access to SOL Pass through FCPS.

No outside testing. Just use SOLs as data points.

We don't want to encourage families to game the system.

Are you under the impression that you can't study for the SOLs?
Also, studying is not "gaming the system"
That is just something parents with kids that don't study tell themselves so they can continue to think they are good parents despite the fact their kids don't study.

If your kid needs a tutor to do well for SOLs, then your kid isn’t academically advanced.

Pushing kids beyond their natural abilities and interests just because you want them to go to a certain school is gaming the system.

Studying is not pushing a kid beyond their "natural ability"
If you're not pushing your kid to study harder then don't complain when kids that do study harder get further.
Hard work just provides a huge advantage over relying on "natural ability"

You are welcome to sign your kids up for a ton of expensive enrichment if they need the extra help. But if you were doing it with the goal of admission to TJ then you were gaming the system.

It was well known in affluent circles how to give your kid the best chance of getting in - test prep centers.

It was pay-to-play.

I agree and I'm fine with kids taking enrichment and studying. I feel the county's resolution to pick the top students from each school was a great solution since it addressed this very problem and insured that all residents have a fair shot at programs like TJ not just students from a few wealthy schools.

They all had the same shot before. Now they have a random shot.

Guess that’s what we get when so many families try to game the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The TJ admissions policy is discriminating against students based on their national origin. Giving bonus "experience" points to students who are ELLs is a form of discrimination against students who are born in the United States and therefore are most likely to speak English. Equating speaking a foreign language has been used in lawsuits before to show discrimination based on national origin.

A student with a perfect score of 900 on the TJ admissions scoresheet can't compete with a student who scored 871, but received 30 bonus points due to ELL status. This is 100% discrimination against students with United States as their national origin.

Did you know when you choose a side salad with your entree instead of a burger you have discriminated against the burger?

Most discrimination is perfectly fine.

in the context of ELL getting bonus points, it's discriminating against native english speakers. Possibly ok 10 years ago, but I think it would be struck down now

JFC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Reposting what we do know about TJ test prep...


There was enough concern in the community about test prep companies "cracking the test" that they changed the test/process multiple times over the years. Affluent families who could afford these programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

Examples of various test prep companies harvesting test questions and sharing with others.
https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.

https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos



Kids from affluent families who attend these test prep programs have an unfair advantage. The test prep companies are constantly trying to "crack the test". They ask students to share details/questions about the tests and then share that info with other students.

Thanks again for posting this detailed evidence which has been shared dozens of times. This settles the matter once and for all!

And just to be clear NONEof these links are to evidence that anyone cheated or bought answers or any of the other things that are claimed.
for
Studying is not cheating.

Affluent parents were paying for outside enrichment and test prep that sometimes included questions/answers from previous tests. This gave their kids an unfair advantage.

For quant-Q, the kids agreed to an NDA. It’s unethical, perhaps even illegal, for them to share details about the test with test prep companies who used the info for their own commercial purposes.

The school board changed the admissions process multiple times because of the unfair and/or unethical behavior of some families.

It was pay to play cheating, and I for one am glad the board of education put an end to it.

PSAT math scores would be the ideal test. Free prep is available for everyone. If it was possible that prep would guarantee a high score, way more high schoolers would be scoring in the 1500's on the PSAT/SAT. Students with the highest level of math form each middle school should receive bonus points. Any student in Algebra 2 or higher in middle school will run out of options for math classes at their local high school. I'm not saying automatically admit anyone with higher levels of math, just give bonus points the same way bonus points are given for ELL and FARMS. This will help identify students from each middle school who have already proven to be advanced in math without giving 100% preference for these students. Math SOL scores should also be looked at. Any student who hasn't passed advanced on the math SOL in 7th grade is not ready for the rigor of TJHSST. All students have access to SOL Pass through FCPS.

No outside testing. Just use SOLs as data points.

We don't want to encourage families to game the system.

Are you under the impression that you can't study for the SOLs?
Also, studying is not "gaming the system"
That is just something parents with kids that don't study tell themselves so they can continue to think they are good parents despite the fact their kids don't study.

If your kid needs a tutor to do well for SOLs, then your kid isn’t academically advanced.

Pushing kids beyond their natural abilities and interests just because you want them to go to a certain school is gaming the system.

Studying is not pushing a kid beyond their "natural ability"
If you're not pushing your kid to study harder then don't complain when kids that do study harder get further.
Hard work just provides a huge advantage over relying on "natural ability"

You are welcome to sign your kids up for a ton of expensive enrichment if they need the extra help. But if you were doing it with the goal of admission to TJ then you were gaming the system.

It was well known in affluent circles how to give your kid the best chance of getting in - test prep centers.

It was pay-to-play.

Studying is not gaming the system any more than swim practice is gaming the swim competitions.

Paying money to expensive prep companies to increase your kid’s chances of admission to a public high school is gaming the system.

Wealthy parents had the knowledge and means to buy their kid a better chance.

[Anonymous]

I suspect that if the C4TJ types keep screaming about “discrimination” even though Asian kids are still admitted at a higher rate than average and have just as many students as ever before that FCPS will eventually just scrap TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Reposting what we do know about TJ test prep...


There was enough concern in the community about test prep companies "cracking the test" that they changed the test/process multiple times over the years. Affluent families who could afford these programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

Examples of various test prep companies harvesting test questions and sharing with others.
https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.

https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos



Kids from affluent families who attend these test prep programs have an unfair advantage. The test prep companies are constantly trying to "crack the test". They ask students to share details/questions about the tests and then share that info with other students.

Thanks again for posting this detailed evidence which has been shared dozens of times. This settles the matter once and for all!

And just to be clear NONEof these links are to evidence that anyone cheated or bought answers or any of the other things that are claimed.
for
Studying is not cheating.

Affluent parents were paying for outside enrichment and test prep that sometimes included questions/answers from previous tests. This gave their kids an unfair advantage.

For quant-Q, the kids agreed to an NDA. It’s unethical, perhaps even illegal, for them to share details about the test with test prep companies who used the info for their own commercial purposes.

The school board changed the admissions process multiple times because of the unfair and/or unethical behavior of some families.

It was pay to play cheating, and I for one am glad the board of education put an end to it.

PSAT math scores would be the ideal test. Free prep is available for everyone. If it was possible that prep would guarantee a high score, way more high schoolers would be scoring in the 1500's on the PSAT/SAT. Students with the highest level of math form each middle school should receive bonus points. Any student in Algebra 2 or higher in middle school will run out of options for math classes at their local high school. I'm not saying automatically admit anyone with higher levels of math, just give bonus points the same way bonus points are given for ELL and FARMS. This will help identify students from each middle school who have already proven to be advanced in math without giving 100% preference for these students. Math SOL scores should also be looked at. Any student who hasn't passed advanced on the math SOL in 7th grade is not ready for the rigor of TJHSST. All students have access to SOL Pass through FCPS.

No outside testing. Just use SOLs as data points.

We don't want to encourage families to game the system.

Are you under the impression that you can't study for the SOLs?
Also, studying is not "gaming the system"
That is just something parents with kids that don't study tell themselves so they can continue to think they are good parents despite the fact their kids don't study.

If your kid needs a tutor to do well for SOLs, then your kid isn’t academically advanced.

Pushing kids beyond their natural abilities and interests just because you want them to go to a certain school is gaming the system.

Studying is not pushing a kid beyond their "natural ability"
If you're not pushing your kid to study harder then don't complain when kids that do study harder get further.
Hard work just provides a huge advantage over relying on "natural ability"

You are welcome to sign your kids up for a ton of expensive enrichment if they need the extra help. But if you were doing it with the goal of admission to TJ then you were gaming the system.

It was well known in affluent circles how to give your kid the best chance of getting in - test prep centers.

It was pay-to-play.

Studying is not gaming the system any more than swim practice is gaming the swim competitions.

Paying money to expensive prep companies to increase your kid’s chances of admission to a public high school is gaming the system.

Wealthy parents had the knowledge and means to buy their kid a better chance.

What expensive prep?
What wealthy parents?

You realize private school around here is $50K/year
You are talking about middle class parents spending a few hundred dollars on test prep
This was not the reason so many asians were getting into TJ.

This is why:
https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf
Asians just blow the curve out of the water

Or are white kids also not trying to do well on the SATs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suspect that if the C4TJ types keep screaming about “discrimination” even though Asian kids are still admitted at a higher rate than average and have just as many students as ever before that FCPS will eventually just scrap TJ.

Or they will stop discriminating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect that if the C4TJ types keep screaming about “discrimination” even though Asian kids are still admitted at a higher rate than average and have just as many students as ever before that FCPS will eventually just scrap TJ.

Or they will stop discriminating.

I guess they can stop screaming about it right now since there is no discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Reposting what we do know about TJ test prep...


There was enough concern in the community about test prep companies "cracking the test" that they changed the test/process multiple times over the years. Affluent families who could afford these programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

Examples of various test prep companies harvesting test questions and sharing with others.
https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.

https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos



Kids from affluent families who attend these test prep programs have an unfair advantage. The test prep companies are constantly trying to "crack the test". They ask students to share details/questions about the tests and then share that info with other students.

Thanks again for posting this detailed evidence which has been shared dozens of times. This settles the matter once and for all!

And just to be clear NONEof these links are to evidence that anyone cheated or bought answers or any of the other things that are claimed.
for
Studying is not cheating.

Affluent parents were paying for outside enrichment and test prep that sometimes included questions/answers from previous tests. This gave their kids an unfair advantage.

For quant-Q, the kids agreed to an NDA. It’s unethical, perhaps even illegal, for them to share details about the test with test prep companies who used the info for their own commercial purposes.

The school board changed the admissions process multiple times because of the unfair and/or unethical behavior of some families.

It was pay to play cheating, and I for one am glad the board of education put an end to it.

PSAT math scores would be the ideal test. Free prep is available for everyone. If it was possible that prep would guarantee a high score, way more high schoolers would be scoring in the 1500's on the PSAT/SAT. Students with the highest level of math form each middle school should receive bonus points. Any student in Algebra 2 or higher in middle school will run out of options for math classes at their local high school. I'm not saying automatically admit anyone with higher levels of math, just give bonus points the same way bonus points are given for ELL and FARMS. This will help identify students from each middle school who have already proven to be advanced in math without giving 100% preference for these students. Math SOL scores should also be looked at. Any student who hasn't passed advanced on the math SOL in 7th grade is not ready for the rigor of TJHSST. All students have access to SOL Pass through FCPS.

No outside testing. Just use SOLs as data points.

We don't want to encourage families to game the system.

Are you under the impression that you can't study for the SOLs?
Also, studying is not "gaming the system"
That is just something parents with kids that don't study tell themselves so they can continue to think they are good parents despite the fact their kids don't study.

If your kid needs a tutor to do well for SOLs, then your kid isn’t academically advanced.

Pushing kids beyond their natural abilities and interests just because you want them to go to a certain school is gaming the system.

Studying is not pushing a kid beyond their "natural ability"
If you're not pushing your kid to study harder then don't complain when kids that do study harder get further.
Hard work just provides a huge advantage over relying on "natural ability"

You are welcome to sign your kids up for a ton of expensive enrichment if they need the extra help. But if you were doing it with the goal of admission to TJ then you were gaming the system.

It was well known in affluent circles how to give your kid the best chance of getting in - test prep centers.

It was pay-to-play.

Studying is not gaming the system any more than swim practice is gaming the swim competitions.

Paying money to expensive prep companies to increase your kid’s chances of admission to a public high school is gaming the system.

Wealthy parents had the knowledge and means to buy their kid a better chance.

What expensive prep?
What wealthy parents?

You realize private school around here is $50K/year
You are talking about middle class parents spending a few hundred dollars on test prep
This was not the reason so many asians were getting into TJ.

This is why:
https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf
Asians just blow the curve out of the water

Or are white kids also not trying to do well on the SATs?

Don't play obtuse. There are many wealthy parents in FCPS who are paying lots of money for TJ test prep.

Many parents spent far more than a few hundred dollars for TJ test prep.

$2120
https://plcprep.com/1-on-1_tutoring.php

$200-300 per hour
https://www.principiatutors.com/our-pricing

$625
https://fairfaxcollegiate.com/test-prep/tjhsst-prep

$1000+ including practice tests
https://web.archive.org/web/20190411164031/http://katedalby.com/tj-admissions-prep/

$800 self paced
$2400 small group
https://www.tjtestprep.com/

$1950
https://www.principiatutors.com/tj-sps-pse-prep

$6985+ signature program that runs over two years “pass any test for admission into specialized programs like AOS/AET and TJ”
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/f3476daf-2f3a-478e-9e4a-0f297817f6fc/2024-2025%20Curie%20Academic%20Year%20Schedule%20(10.20..pdf


The community has been concerned about test prep for decades…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2001/12/01/outsmarting-the-competition-into-thomas-jefferson-high/3f547eb4-a62d-439e-adbb-c409403deea6/
“attended a private learning center in Burke for test practice and admissions counseling -- even advice on elementary school extracurricular activities. “

"Families go through incredible behavior just to try to get their kids into Jefferson by moving into a particular area or renting a town house near Longfellow [Middle School] or others that they think will give them an edge."

“The frenzy highlights a current districtwide controversy about the admission process. Domenech wants to increase the number of students attending Jefferson from less affluent areas of the county”

For the first time, applicants who registered to take the test this year were given a 16-page booklet with test-taking strategies and sample questions.

"We knew that kids were getting help," said admissions coordinator Christel G. Payne, "and it just wasn't fair that a great deal knew what they were facing when they went in on Saturday morning and others would go in cold with no idea what they would be looking at."

MCPS: “Eileen Steinkraus, the magnet coordinator, said applicants used to take the Preliminary SAT, but so many students studied for the test that they abolished it four years ago and had a testing service develop a test for them.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Reposting what we do know about TJ test prep...


There was enough concern in the community about test prep companies "cracking the test" that they changed the test/process multiple times over the years. Affluent families who could afford these programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

Examples of various test prep companies harvesting test questions and sharing with others.
https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.

https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos



Kids from affluent families who attend these test prep programs have an unfair advantage. The test prep companies are constantly trying to "crack the test". They ask students to share details/questions about the tests and then share that info with other students.

Thanks again for posting this detailed evidence which has been shared dozens of times. This settles the matter once and for all!

And just to be clear NONEof these links are to evidence that anyone cheated or bought answers or any of the other things that are claimed.
for
Studying is not cheating.

Affluent parents were paying for outside enrichment and test prep that sometimes included questions/answers from previous tests. This gave their kids an unfair advantage.

For quant-Q, the kids agreed to an NDA. It’s unethical, perhaps even illegal, for them to share details about the test with test prep companies who used the info for their own commercial purposes.

The school board changed the admissions process multiple times because of the unfair and/or unethical behavior of some families.

It was pay to play cheating, and I for one am glad the board of education put an end to it.

PSAT math scores would be the ideal test. Free prep is available for everyone. If it was possible that prep would guarantee a high score, way more high schoolers would be scoring in the 1500's on the PSAT/SAT. Students with the highest level of math form each middle school should receive bonus points. Any student in Algebra 2 or higher in middle school will run out of options for math classes at their local high school. I'm not saying automatically admit anyone with higher levels of math, just give bonus points the same way bonus points are given for ELL and FARMS. This will help identify students from each middle school who have already proven to be advanced in math without giving 100% preference for these students. Math SOL scores should also be looked at. Any student who hasn't passed advanced on the math SOL in 7th grade is not ready for the rigor of TJHSST. All students have access to SOL Pass through FCPS.

No outside testing. Just use SOLs as data points.

We don't want to encourage families to game the system.

Are you under the impression that you can't study for the SOLs?
Also, studying is not "gaming the system"
That is just something parents with kids that don't study tell themselves so they can continue to think they are good parents despite the fact their kids don't study.

If your kid needs a tutor to do well for SOLs, then your kid isn’t academically advanced.

Pushing kids beyond their natural abilities and interests just because you want them to go to a certain school is gaming the system.

Studying is not pushing a kid beyond their "natural ability"
If you're not pushing your kid to study harder then don't complain when kids that do study harder get further.
Hard work just provides a huge advantage over relying on "natural ability"

You are welcome to sign your kids up for a ton of expensive enrichment if they need the extra help. But if you were doing it with the goal of admission to TJ then you were gaming the system.

It was well known in affluent circles how to give your kid the best chance of getting in - test prep centers.

It was pay-to-play.

Studying is not gaming the system any more than swim practice is gaming the swim competitions.

Paying money to expensive prep companies to increase your kid’s chances of admission to a public high school is gaming the system.

Wealthy parents had the knowledge and means to buy their kid a better chance.

What expensive prep?
What wealthy parents?

You realize private school around here is $50K/year
You are talking about middle class parents spending a few hundred dollars on test prep
This was not the reason so many asians were getting into TJ.

This is why:
https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf
Asians just blow the curve out of the water

Or are white kids also not trying to do well on the SATs?

Don't play obtuse. There are many wealthy parents in FCPS who are paying lots of money for TJ test prep.

Many parents spent far more than a few hundred dollars for TJ test prep.

$2120
https://plcprep.com/1-on-1_tutoring.php

$200-300 per hour
https://www.principiatutors.com/our-pricing

$625
https://fairfaxcollegiate.com/test-prep/tjhsst-prep

$1000+ including practice tests
https://web.archive.org/web/20190411164031/http://katedalby.com/tj-admissions-prep/

$800 self paced
$2400 small group
https://www.tjtestprep.com/

$1950
https://www.principiatutors.com/tj-sps-pse-prep

$6985+ signature program that runs over two years “pass any test for admission into specialized programs like AOS/AET and TJ”
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/f3476daf-2f3a-478e-9e4a-0f297817f6fc/2024-2025%20Curie%20Academic%20Year%20Schedule%20(10.20..pdf


The community has been concerned about test prep for decades…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2001/12/01/outsmarting-the-competition-into-thomas-jefferson-high/3f547eb4-a62d-439e-adbb-c409403deea6/
“attended a private learning center in Burke for test practice and admissions counseling -- even advice on elementary school extracurricular activities. “

"Families go through incredible behavior just to try to get their kids into Jefferson by moving into a particular area or renting a town house near Longfellow [Middle School] or others that they think will give them an edge."

“The frenzy highlights a current districtwide controversy about the admission process. Domenech wants to increase the number of students attending Jefferson from less affluent areas of the county”

For the first time, applicants who registered to take the test this year were given a 16-page booklet with test-taking strategies and sample questions.

"We knew that kids were getting help," said admissions coordinator Christel G. Payne, "and it just wasn't fair that a great deal knew what they were facing when they went in on Saturday morning and others would go in cold with no idea what they would be looking at."

MCPS: “Eileen Steinkraus, the magnet coordinator, said applicants used to take the Preliminary SAT, but so many students studied for the test that they abolished it four years ago and had a testing service develop a test for them.”

So something that starts at $625 (and I have found some for $300) is expensive enough to be prohibitive and limited to "wealthy" families?
These aren't wealthy families.

If you want the test to be more fair, make it more accessible and transparent.
Don't make it harder to prepare for (which makes the prep more and more expensive).
Make it easy to prepare for so that the difference between free resources on youtube plus a $20 book is small compared to the hand-holding you get from a place like principia.

When you eliminate testing, you aren't trying to correct for wealth, you are trying to correct for actual differences in cognitive ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect that if the C4TJ types keep screaming about “discrimination” even though Asian kids are still admitted at a higher rate than average and have just as many students as ever before that FCPS will eventually just scrap TJ.

Or they will stop discriminating.

I guess they can stop screaming about it right now since there is no discrimination.

It's like you don't understand what structural racism is.