Has the Coalition for TJ (or any other groups) considered another lawsuit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the goal of TJ is to offer science and math to a broad range of FCPS students, which is why they draw from across the county; the goal is not to offer science and math to the top XX number of students who apply. Just because a prospective student may have an entrance score 30 points below another student doesn’t mean that student is incompetent and will not succeed. Give it up, girlfriend.

DP
This is absolutely [b]not[/b[ the goal of governor's schools.
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. "

Nowhere does it say the purpose is to serve a broad range of students. it is intended for a very small and specific range of students.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/governor-s-schools

Right but just because kids prepped to do well on an entrance exam does not make them have a “remarkably different” learning level. Since the old system got clogged down with far too many people prepping for it it needed a change.

So let's stop this nonsense that TJ is supposed to serve geographically or racially diverse group of students. Let's look for those students whose learning level remarkably different from their age level peers.

The old method may not be perfect but it was significantly better than what we have now.

PSAT scores down 120 points
SOL advance pass rates significantly down
NMSF dropped more that 50%
The math department sent out an email saying that the students are getting the worst scores ever.. even with reduce standards and a more generous curve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the goal of TJ is to offer science and math to a broad range of FCPS students, which is why they draw from across the county; the goal is not to offer science and math to the top XX number of students who apply. Just because a prospective student may have an entrance score 30 points below another student doesn’t mean that student is incompetent and will not succeed. Give it up, girlfriend.

DP
This is absolutely not[/b[ the goal of governor's schools.
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist [b]divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. "

Nowhere does it say the purpose is to serve a broad range of students. it is intended for a very small and specific range of students.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/governor-s-schools

Divisions. Not a handful of wealthy feeders.

If that is where most of the advanced students are then that is where they are. There is no rule that the most advanced students be evenly distributed geographically, socioeconomically, or racially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the goal of TJ is to offer science and math to a broad range of FCPS students, which is why they draw from across the county; the goal is not to offer science and math to the top XX number of students who apply. Just because a prospective student may have an entrance score 30 points below another student doesn’t mean that student is incompetent and will not succeed. Give it up, girlfriend.

DP
This is absolutely [b]not[/b[ the goal of governor's schools.
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. "

Nowhere does it say the purpose is to serve a broad range of students. it is intended for a very small and specific range of students.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/governor-s-schools

Right but just because kids prepped to do well on an entrance exam does not make them have a “remarkably different” learning level. Since the old system got clogged down with far too many people prepping for it it needed a change.

So let's stop this nonsense that TJ is supposed to serve geographically or racially diverse group of students. Let's look for those students whose learning level remarkably different from their age level peers.

The old method may not be perfect but it was significantly better than what we have now.

PSAT scores down 120 points
SOL advance pass rates significantly down
NMSF dropped more that 50%
The math department sent out an email saying that the students are getting the worst scores ever.. even with reduce standards and a more generous curve.

Yes those PSAT, SOL and NMSF stats are true. The email was about the last class admitted under the OLD admission approach though. It was sent the year the first new class was there but for a math class mainly made up of sophomores (old admissions) not freshmen (new admissions).

And I fully agree the new process needs some tweaks. Personally I think teacher recc’s need re-added so that the kids picked at a given school are indeed the top ones at it. But I would keep the geographic spread. Otherwise I don’t see how you avoid sliding back into a ton of the kids prepping for whatever the admissions criteria are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the goal of TJ is to offer science and math to a broad range of FCPS students, which is why they draw from across the county; the goal is not to offer science and math to the top XX number of students who apply. Just because a prospective student may have an entrance score 30 points below another student doesn’t mean that student is incompetent and will not succeed. Give it up, girlfriend.

DP
This is absolutely not[/b[ the goal of governor's schools.
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist [b]divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. "

Nowhere does it say the purpose is to serve a broad range of students. it is intended for a very small and specific range of students.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/governor-s-schools

Divisions. Not a handful of wealthy feeders.

If that is where most of the advanced students are then that is where they are. There is no rule that the most advanced students be evenly distributed geographically, socioeconomically, or racially.

That is where the most kids are whose parents figured out how to put them on a highly accelerated math track. It does not mean that is where the most natural math/science talent necessarily resides.

[Anonymous]

Academic Talent isn't relevant. You don't need to be the highest scoring student in the county to benefit from a better equipped lab.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the goal of TJ is to offer science and math to a broad range of FCPS students, which is why they draw from across the county; the goal is not to offer science and math to the top XX number of students who apply. Just because a prospective student may have an entrance score 30 points below another student doesn’t mean that student is incompetent and will not succeed. Give it up, girlfriend.

DP
This is absolutely [b]not[/b[ the goal of governor's schools.
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. "

Nowhere does it say the purpose is to serve a broad range of students. it is intended for a very small and specific range of students.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/governor-s-schools

Right but just because kids prepped to do well on an entrance exam does not make them have a “remarkably different” learning level. Since the old system got clogged down with far too many people prepping for it it needed a change.

So let's stop this nonsense that TJ is supposed to serve geographically or racially diverse group of students. Let's look for those students whose learning level remarkably different from their age level peers.

The old method may not be perfect but it was significantly better than what we have now.

PSAT scores down 120 points
SOL advance pass rates significantly down
NMSF dropped more that 50%
The math department sent out an email saying that the students are getting the worst scores ever.. even with reduce standards and a more generous curve.

Yes those PSAT, SOL and NMSF stats are true. The email was about the last class admitted under the OLD admission approach though. It was sent the year the first new class was there but for a math class mainly made up of sophomores (old admissions) not freshmen (new admissions).

I think you may be the victim of woke disinformation, that email was for Spring math 4. There are very few sophomores taking math 4 in the spring.

Freshmen coming in with geometry in 8th grade take stats in fall and math 3 in spring, then they take math 4 the following Fall and math 5 in the following spring and take calc in their junior year. So kids coming in with geometry take math 4 in the fall of their sophomore year.

Freshman coming in with algebra 2 in 8th grade take stats in fall and math 4 in the spring. Then a lot of them take math 5 in the summer and take calc in sophomore year.

So pretty much the only kids taking math 4 in the spring are freshmen coming in with algebra 2.

https://fairfaxgop.org/tj-math-teachers-note-lowering-of-standards/
https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/node/3332
https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/FAQMath

Response to FAQ for incoming freshmen:
"Question: Which class should I take next year?

Answer: If you are currently in Algebra 1, you will enroll in Research Statistics 1 and TJ Math 1 for the upcoming school year.
If you are currently in Geometry, you will enroll in Research Statistics 1 and TJ Math 3 for the upcoming school year.
If you are currently in Algebra 2, you will enroll in Research Statistics 1 and TJ Math 4.
If you are enrolled in any course higher than Algebra 2, please consult with the Math-CS division manager or a counselor about which math courses to sign up for."

Most of the kids taking math 4 in their sophomore spring semester, that was the class that failed to meet lowered standards.

And I fully agree the new process needs some tweaks. Personally I think teacher recc’s need re-added so that the kids picked at a given school are indeed the top ones at it. But I would keep the geographic spread. Otherwise I don’t see how you avoid sliding back into a ton of the kids prepping for whatever the admissions criteria are.

This obsession with countering the effects of "prepping" is basically trying to to correct for differences in diligence and effort. There is a very racist undercurrent behind this obsession, whether you personally are racist or not, the reason this push exists is because of a racist desire to reduce asian populations because there are just too many of them.

If we are going to keep the geographic quotas because politics requires it, we should have the geographic quota be implemented based on zoned elementary school rather than middle schools or attended elementary schools because you are penalizing kids for going to center schools. The base kids at Center middle school should not be penalized because they are zoned to a center school with the most academically advanced kids in the area. The base kids at a AAP center school should not be pemalized because they are zoned to a school with the most academically advanced kids in the area.

We should also re-institute the testing requirement so at least we get the smartest kids from each area. It is entirely too random right now and does not select for merit as well as it could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the goal of TJ is to offer science and math to a broad range of FCPS students, which is why they draw from across the county; the goal is not to offer science and math to the top XX number of students who apply. Just because a prospective student may have an entrance score 30 points below another student doesn’t mean that student is incompetent and will not succeed. Give it up, girlfriend.

DP
This is absolutely not[/b[ the goal of governor's schools.
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist [b]divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. "

Nowhere does it say the purpose is to serve a broad range of students. it is intended for a very small and specific range of students.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/governor-s-schools

Divisions. Not a handful of wealthy feeders.

If that is where most of the advanced students are then that is where they are. There is no rule that the most advanced students be evenly distributed geographically, socioeconomically, or racially.

That is where the most kids are whose parents figured out how to put them on a highly accelerated math track. It does not mean that is where the most natural math/science talent necessarily resides.

Pretty much every kid in 6th grade AAP takes the Iowa test to see if they can take algebra in 7th grade. You don't need parents that are familiar with the system to get into 7th grade algebra, just kids who are ready for it.

Up until very recently, the vast majority of kids getting into TJ took geometry in 8th grade.
Pretty much anyone can take algebra in 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the goal of TJ is to offer science and math to a broad range of FCPS students, which is why they draw from across the county; the goal is not to offer science and math to the top XX number of students who apply. Just because a prospective student may have an entrance score 30 points below another student doesn’t mean that student is incompetent and will not succeed. Give it up, girlfriend.

DP
This is absolutely not[/b[ the goal of governor's schools.
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist [b]divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. "

Nowhere does it say the purpose is to serve a broad range of students. it is intended for a very small and specific range of students.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/governor-s-schools

Divisions. Not a handful of wealthy feeders.

If that is where most of the advanced students are then that is where they are. There is no rule that the most advanced students be evenly distributed geographically, socioeconomically, or racially.

Nowhere does it say the most advanced in the entire region. TJ should take kids from the top of each MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Academic Talent isn't relevant. You don't need to be the highest scoring student in the county to benefit from a better equipped lab.

Academic talent is the ONLY thing that is relevant. They are the only ones that need those better equipped labs and the higher level math and science courses.

WTF is your average kid going to do with a quantum physics and optics lab?
Why does the average kid need access to linear algebra (which is actually pretty widely available throughout FCPS), concrete math, number theory.

Sending a few kids that are going to be taking AP Calculus and AP Physics in their senior year is fine but about 1/3 of the kids at TJ are on this track right now. Most of those kids are getting nothing out of TJ that they would not get at their base school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the goal of TJ is to offer science and math to a broad range of FCPS students, which is why they draw from across the county; the goal is not to offer science and math to the top XX number of students who apply. Just because a prospective student may have an entrance score 30 points below another student doesn’t mean that student is incompetent and will not succeed. Give it up, girlfriend.

DP
This is absolutely not[/b[ the goal of governor's schools.
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist [b]divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. "

Nowhere does it say the purpose is to serve a broad range of students. it is intended for a very small and specific range of students.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/governor-s-schools

Divisions. Not a handful of wealthy feeders.

If that is where most of the advanced students are then that is where they are. There is no rule that the most advanced students be evenly distributed geographically, socioeconomically, or racially.

Nowhere does it say the most advanced in the entire region. TJ should take kids from the top of each MS.

Except there are some middle schools with practically zero advanced kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the goal of TJ is to offer science and math to a broad range of FCPS students, which is why they draw from across the county; the goal is not to offer science and math to the top XX number of students who apply. Just because a prospective student may have an entrance score 30 points below another student doesn’t mean that student is incompetent and will not succeed. Give it up, girlfriend.

DP
This is absolutely not[/b[ the goal of governor's schools.
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist [b]divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. "

Nowhere does it say the purpose is to serve a broad range of students. it is intended for a very small and specific range of students.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/governor-s-schools

Divisions. Not a handful of wealthy feeders.

If that is where most of the advanced students are then that is where they are. There is no rule that the most advanced students be evenly distributed geographically, socioeconomically, or racially.

This should be common sense but it isn’t anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the goal of TJ is to offer science and math to a broad range of FCPS students, which is why they draw from across the county; the goal is not to offer science and math to the top XX number of students who apply. Just because a prospective student may have an entrance score 30 points below another student doesn’t mean that student is incompetent and will not succeed. Give it up, girlfriend.

DP
This is absolutely [b]not[/b[ the goal of governor's schools.
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. "

Nowhere does it say the purpose is to serve a broad range of students. it is intended for a very small and specific range of students.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/governor-s-schools

Right but just because kids prepped to do well on an entrance exam does not make them have a “remarkably different” learning level. Since the old system got clogged down with far too many people prepping for it it needed a change.

So let's stop this nonsense that TJ is supposed to serve geographically or racially diverse group of students. Let's look for those students whose learning level remarkably different from their age level peers.

The old method may not be perfect but it was significantly better than what we have now.

PSAT scores down 120 points
SOL advance pass rates significantly down
NMSF dropped more that 50%
The math department sent out an email saying that the students are getting the worst scores ever.. even with reduce standards and a more generous curve.

Yes those PSAT, SOL and NMSF stats are true. The email was about the last class admitted under the OLD admission approach though. It was sent the year the first new class was there but for a math class mainly made up of sophomores (old admissions) not freshmen (new admissions).

I think you may be the victim of woke disinformation, that email was for Spring math 4. There are very few sophomores taking math 4 in the spring.

Freshmen coming in with geometry in 8th grade take stats in fall and math 3 in spring, then they take math 4 the following Fall and math 5 in the following spring and take calc in their junior year. So kids coming in with geometry take math 4 in the fall of their sophomore year.

Freshman coming in with algebra 2 in 8th grade take stats in fall and math 4 in the spring. Then a lot of them take math 5 in the summer and take calc in sophomore year.

So pretty much the only kids taking math 4 in the spring are freshmen coming in with algebra 2.

https://fairfaxgop.org/tj-math-teachers-note-lowering-of-standards/
https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/node/3332
https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/FAQMath

Response to FAQ for incoming freshmen:
"Question: Which class should I take next year?

Answer: If you are currently in Algebra 1, you will enroll in Research Statistics 1 and TJ Math 1 for the upcoming school year.
If you are currently in Geometry, you will enroll in Research Statistics 1 and TJ Math 3 for the upcoming school year.
If you are currently in Algebra 2, you will enroll in Research Statistics 1 and TJ Math 4.
If you are enrolled in any course higher than Algebra 2, please consult with the Math-CS division manager or a counselor about which math courses to sign up for."

Most of the kids taking math 4 in their sophomore spring semester, that was the class that failed to meet lowered standards.

And I fully agree the new process needs some tweaks. Personally I think teacher recc’s need re-added so that the kids picked at a given school are indeed the top ones at it. But I would keep the geographic spread. Otherwise I don’t see how you avoid sliding back into a ton of the kids prepping for whatever the admissions criteria are.

This obsession with countering the effects of "prepping" is basically trying to to correct for differences in diligence and effort. There is a very racist undercurrent behind this obsession, whether you personally are racist or not, the reason this push exists is because of a racist desire to reduce asian populations because there are just too many of them.

If we are going to keep the geographic quotas because politics requires it, we should have the geographic quota be implemented based on zoned elementary school rather than middle schools or attended elementary schools because you are penalizing kids for going to center schools. The base kids at Center middle school should not be penalized because they are zoned to a center school with the most academically advanced kids in the area. The base kids at a AAP center school should not be pemalized because they are zoned to a school with the most academically advanced kids in the area.

We should also re-institute the testing requirement so at least we get the smartest kids from each area. It is entirely too random right now and does not select for merit as well as it could.

Thanks for the correction. Sounds like those kids were over accelerated then if they were coming in already having had Algebra 2 vs “normal” level of “just” geometry in 8th.

Re: geographic pulls coming from base schools not attended schools. Yes this should absolutely be the case.

On the prepping piece though - sorry we’ll have to agree to disagree. Many people do not want to have to put their kids in outside math classes just to “keep up”. There shouldn’t be a process that gives a leg up to kids who are more advanced simply due to outside prep. This is why I think restoring teacher recc’s to the geographic process would be better. I think it’s more likely to find the kids with natural aptitude vs excessive prepping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the goal of TJ is to offer science and math to a broad range of FCPS students, which is why they draw from across the county; the goal is not to offer science and math to the top XX number of students who apply. Just because a prospective student may have an entrance score 30 points below another student doesn’t mean that student is incompetent and will not succeed. Give it up, girlfriend.

DP
This is absolutely not[/b[ the goal of governor's schools.
"The Virginia Governor's School Program has been designed to assist [b]divisions as they meet the needs of a small population of students whose learning levels are remarkably different from their age-level peers. "

Nowhere does it say the purpose is to serve a broad range of students. it is intended for a very small and specific range of students.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/governor-s-schools

Divisions. Not a handful of wealthy feeders.

If that is where most of the advanced students are then that is where they are. There is no rule that the most advanced students be evenly distributed geographically, socioeconomically, or racially.

Nowhere does it say the most advanced in the entire region. TJ should take kids from the top of each MS.

Except there are some middle schools with practically zero advanced kids

That handful of kids should have a shot instead of being totally shut out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Academic Talent isn't relevant. You don't need to be the highest scoring student in the county to benefit from a better equipped lab.

Academic talent is the ONLY thing that is relevant. They are the only ones that need those better equipped labs and the higher level math and science courses.

WTF is your average kid going to do with a quantum physics and optics lab?
Why does the average kid need access to linear algebra (which is actually pretty widely available throughout FCPS), concrete math, number theory.

Sending a few kids that are going to be taking AP Calculus and AP Physics in their senior year is fine but about 1/3 of the kids at TJ are on this track right now. Most of those kids are getting nothing out of TJ that they would not get at their base school.

There is a huge amount of space between “average” and the tiny number of truly gifted students.

Advanced kids from around the region should have access to TJ, not just kids from a handful of wealthy feeders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The TJ admissions policy is discriminating against students based on their national origin. Giving bonus "experience" points to students who are ELLs is a form of discrimination against students who are born in the United States and therefore are most likely to speak English. Equating speaking a foreign language has been used in lawsuits before to show discrimination based on national origin.

A student with a perfect score of 900 on the TJ admissions scoresheet can't compete with a student who scored 871, but received 30 bonus points due to ELL status. This is 100% discrimination against students with United States as their national origin.

The last one failed so miserably. It was laughed out of court since they had no case.