Vent: My son unintentionally shamed my brother, who then "told on me" to our parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What 7 year old is that curious about what an adult does?

Kids are curious. They ask questions and (some) careers are interesting. The brother said he was exhausted. A reasonable follow-up question is "why." Surely you're met children whose favorite word is "why." What on earth is brother exhausted from? Nothing. That's why the child probed further. He was being gaslighted by a liar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people where this hits a nerve. OP's kids didn't ask "why are you fat/ugly?" A child asked what is your job? OP saw her bro uncomfortable and shut it down after less than 2 minutes. It should have ended there. They are projecting and scapegoating at this point. If OP's brother is traumatized by such innocuous questions and the typical behavior of a 7 year old, then he needs therapy to learn coping skills. If he thinks a grown up sibling should be cleaning his dirty undies for him, he needs help.

If the parents are getting him help, great! If they don't want to tell OP, that is fine. OP does not owe him an apology nor do her kids. This is a great situation for him to take to his therapist. Figure out why he is so traumatized he needs to upset his parents and drag his sister and her kid into it. He needs to problem solve how he could have handled it differently. This is not Ops problem. If they keep making it her problem and don't disclose any disability, I would distance.

Just want to add how this is personal to me. I have a very bright sibling with fancy degrees who still have mom catering to her in many ways and paying for things. I stay out of it, but I have boundaries. I have 2 kids, one with special needs and a husband with health issues and a job. The problem is mom is aging and wants me to be sister's new mommy. I refused, my mother raged at me, my sister raged. Now I barely have a relationship, but my mom is finally forcing my sister to learn more skills of independence and get psychiatric help for her anger, mood swings, mild paranoia and constant feeling sorry for herself. It's working. Last time I saw my sister, she was medicated and able to manage her anger. She was no longer blaming everyone else for her issues. She is slowly taking on more skills of independence and not expecting everyone to cater. It's amazing what can happen when you insist someone get proper services and you stop enabling. The experts can help you understand what are reasonable expectations and what aren't, but I can tell you right it is reasonable to expect any able bodied person to do laundry.

OP here. Thank you for sharing about your sister. DH and I talked late into the night about this exact issue of what the expectations are for my brother when my parents eventually die. Neither of us want to take him on. As far as we know my brother has no mental illness. We agreed my mom REALLY loved actively being a mom and I wonder if taking care of my brother lets her enjoy that feeling. I wish my brother was doing more of taking care of them and taking care of things FOR them, rather than letting them cater to him. Maybe I need to have this conversation with my parents, so they can prepare for the future in whatever way works for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to make is 100% clear to your parents and your brother that you will NOT be assuming care of or any responsibility for your brother in the future, so that other plans can be made. If they leave him $, it should be in a trust. In the meantime, perhaps they can teach him skills like laundry. I'd call a family meeting with your parents, DH and brother. Leave kid out of it and don't discuss it around him.

To me, sending him over, with dirty laundry, is kind of testing your boundaries and wearing you down to be everlasting Mommy 2.0.

I would genuinely try to understand what mental or developmental issues may be at play, they are part of your child's genetics. Which is not to say that he could not learn to be more independent. But, unlikely he is neurotypical and living like this.

This! All of the above.

[Anonymous]

Do not apologize. I would be pissed if I had a sibling like him and my parents called to demand an apology. Also why do you let your mother call and inform you he is being dropped off as if you are a daycare? Put a stop to that now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What 7 year old is that curious about what an adult does?

Kids are curious. They ask questions and (some) careers are interesting. The brother said he was exhausted. A reasonable follow-up question is "why." Surely you're met children whose favorite word is "why." What on earth is brother exhausted from? Nothing. That's why the child probed further. He was being gaslighted by a liar.

That's called being nosy and ill mannered, whether you are a kid or an adult. You are not entitled to the minutiae of someone's personal life or the reasons behind their decisions. It's not gaslighting to deflect personal questions it's a polite way to signal to a nosy person to back off and still allow them to save face. The next person OP's son needles might not be as kind as his uncle and give him a piece of his/her mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What 7 year old is that curious about what an adult does?

Kids are curious. They ask questions and (some) careers are interesting. The brother said he was exhausted. A reasonable follow-up question is "why." Surely you're met children whose favorite word is "why." What on earth is brother exhausted from? Nothing. That's why the child probed further. He was being gaslighted by a liar.

That's called being nosy and ill mannered, whether you are a kid or an adult. You are not entitled to the minutiae of someone's personal life or the reasons behind their decisions. It's not gaslighting to deflect personal questions it's a polite way to signal to a nosy person to back off and still allow them to save face. The next person OP's son needles might not be as kind as his uncle and give him a piece of his/her mind.

Some of you all should not have ever become parents and it shows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not apologize. I would be pissed if I had a sibling like him and my parents called to demand an apology. Also why do you let your mother call and inform you he is being dropped off as if you are a daycare? Put a stop to that now.

A few reasons - one is because it's only 4-6 times a year so not a HUGE deal. Another is my brother will tell me the truth about my parents (they'll claim a sprain when it's really a fracture, they'll claim a cold when it's bronchitis, etc.). He was the one who told me that my dad was saying he's going to clean the gutters himself next month. I don't want my dad on a high ladder at his age doing physical labor on his day off. Now that we know, we can find a good company to do it for them. And the third is to give my parents a break from him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people where this hits a nerve. OP's kids didn't ask "why are you fat/ugly?" A child asked what is your job? OP saw her bro uncomfortable and shut it down after less than 2 minutes. It should have ended there. They are projecting and scapegoating at this point. If OP's brother is traumatized by such innocuous questions and the typical behavior of a 7 year old, then he needs therapy to learn coping skills. If he thinks a grown up sibling should be cleaning his dirty undies for him, he needs help.

If the parents are getting him help, great! If they don't want to tell OP, that is fine. OP does not owe him an apology nor do her kids. This is a great situation for him to take to his therapist. Figure out why he is so traumatized he needs to upset his parents and drag his sister and her kid into it. He needs to problem solve how he could have handled it differently. This is not Ops problem. If they keep making it her problem and don't disclose any disability, I would distance.

Just want to add how this is personal to me. I have a very bright sibling with fancy degrees who still have mom catering to her in many ways and paying for things. I stay out of it, but I have boundaries. I have 2 kids, one with special needs and a husband with health issues and a job. The problem is mom is aging and wants me to be sister's new mommy. I refused, my mother raged at me, my sister raged. Now I barely have a relationship, but my mom is finally forcing my sister to learn more skills of independence and get psychiatric help for her anger, mood swings, mild paranoia and constant feeling sorry for herself. It's working. Last time I saw my sister, she was medicated and able to manage her anger. She was no longer blaming everyone else for her issues. She is slowly taking on more skills of independence and not expecting everyone to cater. It's amazing what can happen when you insist someone get proper services and you stop enabling. The experts can help you understand what are reasonable expectations and what aren't, but I can tell you right it is reasonable to expect any able bodied person to do laundry.

OP here. Thank you for sharing about your sister. DH and I talked late into the night about this exact issue of what the expectations are for my brother when my parents eventually die. Neither of us want to take him on. As far as we know my brother has no mental illness. We agreed my mom REALLY loved actively being a mom and I wonder if taking care of my brother lets her enjoy that feeling. I wish my brother was doing more of taking care of them and taking care of things FOR them, rather than letting them cater to him. Maybe I need to have this conversation with my parents, so they can prepare for the future in whatever way works for them.

OP, I'm yet another person with the exact same situation. I've had many conversations with my mom about this over the last decade, and especially after my dad passed away. It's VERY hard for her to accept the reality of this, but being very clear about what I will and won't do (I won't take him into my house, I won't pay for him to live anywhere, I will help him apply for disability and seek psychological help, etc) is necessary. She is taking small steps (making sure he has a place to live, has a source of money). It did hurt our relationship but it's very, very important for us, when our parents are in denial a mess can fall into our laps when they pass away.

The bolded is true in my family and it's really hard for me to witness; my brother lost so much (the ability to be independent and take responsibility for himself, and the pride in that). Therapy has helped!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What 7 year old is that curious about what an adult does?

Kids are curious. They ask questions and (some) careers are interesting. The brother said he was exhausted. A reasonable follow-up question is "why." Surely you're met children whose favorite word is "why." What on earth is brother exhausted from? Nothing. That's why the child probed further. He was being gaslighted by a liar.

That's called being nosy and ill mannered, whether you are a kid or an adult. You are not entitled to the minutiae of someone's personal life or the reasons behind their decisions. It's not gaslighting to deflect personal questions it's a polite way to signal to a nosy person to back off and still allow them to save face. The next person OP's son needles might not be as kind as his uncle and give him a piece of his/her mind.

Some of you all should not have ever become parents and it shows.

Good parents teach their children basic social norms so they can manage social interactions successfully. Unskilled parents don't teach their children boundaries and it takes said children years or even decades into adulthood to pick up on this stuff.

No one likes nosy people, basic life lesson OP's son should learn from mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What 7 year old is that curious about what an adult does?

Kids are curious. They ask questions and (some) careers are interesting. The brother said he was exhausted. A reasonable follow-up question is "why." Surely you're met children whose favorite word is "why." What on earth is brother exhausted from? Nothing. That's why the child probed further. He was being gaslighted by a liar.

Nothing? Does it seem glaringly obvious that there is some depression or other health issue at play? Is it really that hard to connect the dots? And letting a nosy kid ask why? why? why? Again and again is in really bad taste. OP may secretly agree with her kid but that doesn't make it ok to be rude and obnoxious. People defending this behavior are the same people who probably flip out if their parents ask them if/when they will have grandchildren. Or get married. Or do anything else in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not apologize. I would be pissed if I had a sibling like him and my parents called to demand an apology. Also why do you let your mother call and inform you he is being dropped off as if you are a daycare? Put a stop to that now.

A few reasons - one is because it's only 4-6 times a year so not a HUGE deal. Another is my brother will tell me the truth about my parents (they'll claim a sprain when it's really a fracture, they'll claim a cold when it's bronchitis, etc.). He was the one who told me that my dad was saying he's going to clean the gutters himself next month. I don't want my dad on a high ladder at his age doing physical labor on his day off. Now that we know, we can find a good company to do it for them. And the third is to give my parents a break from him.

So let's get this straight, your brother is an involved uncle who visits multiple times a year, is not a rude or ill mannered guest, is not dependent or a burden to you, in fact is quite useful to you. Your parents have asked you for no help or indicated that he is a burden to them. What exactly justifies you or your 7 year old treating him with such contempt?

[Anonymous]

OP I had something SO similar to this, except that my 42 yo brother lives in a single family home paid for by my parents (he has never had a job). My 10 yo DD asked where he lives, what his job is, how he pays rent if he doesn't have a job. She asked ME though when no one else was around. I was so bummed she didn't ask in front of my brother and parents. Sometimes people are ashamed because their actions are shameful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not apologize. I would be pissed if I had a sibling like him and my parents called to demand an apology. Also why do you let your mother call and inform you he is being dropped off as if you are a daycare? Put a stop to that now.

A few reasons - one is because it's only 4-6 times a year so not a HUGE deal. Another is my brother will tell me the truth about my parents (they'll claim a sprain when it's really a fracture, they'll claim a cold when it's bronchitis, etc.). He was the one who told me that my dad was saying he's going to clean the gutters himself next month. I don't want my dad on a high ladder at his age doing physical labor on his day off. Now that we know, we can find a good company to do it for them. And the third is to give my parents a break from him.

So let's get this straight, your brother is an involved uncle who visits multiple times a year, is not a rude or ill mannered guest, is not dependent or a burden to you, in fact is quite useful to you. Your parents have asked you for no help or indicated that he is a burden to them. What exactly justifies you or your 7 year old treating him with such contempt?

He's not involved. He won't play with the kids, or watch them play sports, or attend recitals, plays or games. He only comes here when my parents send him over. He lays on the couch and gets up to eat meals. When my DD last asked him to quiz her for a spelling test he told her to ask DH or me because he was busy. He was watching a rerun of Big Bang. My brother is not trying to be helpful to tell me about my parents - he's gossiping and complaining (Mom is on crutches so she's making really easy dinners instead of the good ones I like). I do not treat him with contempt. I shared my feelings here, anonymously, with strangers. I smile, I freshen up the guest room, make the foods he likes, invite him to do all sorts of different things trying to hit upon something he'd enjoy or at least put up with. He sleeps late, complains about the kids making noise (after like, 9am!), eats, lays on the couch, sleeps, and then leaves. I sit with him while he's watching tv and chat with him about what we're watching, news, friends we both used to know who I've kept in touch with, our plans each day, etc. My son asked what my brother does. He didn't understand the vague answer he got and kept trying to understand. I stopped him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I had something SO similar to this, except that my 42 yo brother lives in a single family home paid for by my parents (he has never had a job). My 10 yo DD asked where he lives, what his job is, how he pays rent if he doesn't have a job. She asked ME though when no one else was around. I was so bummed she didn't ask in front of my brother and parents. Sometimes people are ashamed because their actions are shameful.

See, you like OP wanted this confrontation. You know you can’t do it. At least your kid has a sense of propriety and the manners to know better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not apologize. I would be pissed if I had a sibling like him and my parents called to demand an apology. Also why do you let your mother call and inform you he is being dropped off as if you are a daycare? Put a stop to that now.

A few reasons - one is because it's only 4-6 times a year so not a HUGE deal. Another is my brother will tell me the truth about my parents (they'll claim a sprain when it's really a fracture, they'll claim a cold when it's bronchitis, etc.). He was the one who told me that my dad was saying he's going to clean the gutters himself next month. I don't want my dad on a high ladder at his age doing physical labor on his day off. Now that we know, we can find a good company to do it for them. And the third is to give my parents a break from him.

So let's get this straight, your brother is an involved uncle who visits multiple times a year, is not a rude or ill mannered guest, is not dependent or a burden to you, in fact is quite useful to you. Your parents have asked you for no help or indicated that he is a burden to them. What exactly justifies you or your 7 year old treating him with such contempt?

He's not involved. He won't play with the kids, or watch them play sports, or attend recitals, plays or games. He only comes here when my parents send him over. He lays on the couch and gets up to eat meals. When my DD last asked him to quiz her for a spelling test he told her to ask DH or me because he was busy. He was watching a rerun of Big Bang. My brother is not trying to be helpful to tell me about my parents - he's gossiping and complaining (Mom is on crutches so she's making really easy dinners instead of the good ones I like). I do not treat him with contempt. I shared my feelings here, anonymously, with strangers. I smile, I freshen up the guest room, make the foods he likes, invite him to do all sorts of different things trying to hit upon something he'd enjoy or at least put up with. He sleeps late, complains about the kids making noise (after like, 9am!), eats, lays on the couch, sleeps, and then leaves. I sit with him while he's watching tv and chat with him about what we're watching, news, friends we both used to know who I've kept in touch with, our plans each day, etc. My son asked what my brother does. He didn't understand the vague answer he got and kept trying to understand. I stopped him.

So ask him yourself if you’re dying to know the answer to this mystery? What’s stopping you?