Russia - civil war has broken out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those of you hoping for a "coup" or regime change.......

Does it occur to you that regime change might make Russia even worse?
I think Putin is a dangerous dictator, but will people from the Wagner Group be better?

I’m no expert (and some here actually are; I barely follow this stuff) but yes, I know it could be worse. The thing is that Putin is terrible. For two quick examples, his invasion of Ukraine and his treatment of Alexei Navalny.

Also my weakly hoping for Putin to be deposed isn’t really going to move the needle anywhere. I just wish Putin were gone and that some of the promise of democracy that Russia had in the early 90s could be realized.

[Anonymous]

imho, Kazakhstan is already signaling their fine with becoming a Chinese vassal state.

"President of Kazakhstan Tokayev called the rebellion of PMC Wagner "Russia's internal affair"
https://myc.news/en/novosti_mira/prezident_kazahstana_tokaev_nazval_myatezh_chvk_vagner_vnutrennim_delom_rossii

Guessing it's time for all the Russian overseas spies to flip? Better make your deals with the FBI before it's too late.. you may find your boss beat you to it!

[Anonymous]

This is just a distraction from the Titan sub investigation.

[Anonymous]

"The government business jet EW-301PJ, which took off from Minsk at 00:01, landed in Bodrum, Turkiye, at 5:15 a.m."
"In addition to the dictator himself, the business jet is used by his family members"
"on the eve of the flight to Turkiye, Lukashenko spoke with Putin on the phone"
https://ukranews.com/en/news/940720-after-talking-to-putin-lukashenko-sends-his-personal-plane-to-turkiye

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is just a distraction from the Titan sub investigation.

No, no - the line is "BiDeN pUT PrIGoZhIN Up tO ThIS tO dIStrAct fROm The HunTeR SiTUAtIoN!!!" 🤪

[Anonymous]

[Yesterday] I returned from work insanely tired and went to bed immediately. I saw the news when I woke up. It’s like the start of the war, when we went to bed in a relatively familiar (but nonetheless terrible) situation, and the next morning you’re insanely scared for the lives of your loved ones.

At first, I thought this was just another hoax, but in the morning [on Saturday], I realized we’re living through another historic day. I never supported the Putin regime, but the prospect of rule-by-sledgehammer in our country horrifies me.

It’ll be the same story as when the Russian army challenge the military and economic strength of NATO — defeat. It’s not hard to guess what result this rebellion will have on the front lines.

I go to bed at around midnight [on Friday], look at the news like I always do, and I can’t believe what’s happening. At about 1:00 a.m., my 15-year-old sister comes out of her room and knocks on the bathroom door, saying, “Mom, mom, come out, the civil war has started.”

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/06/24/mom-come-out-the-civil-war-has-begun

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those of you hoping for a "coup" or regime change.......

Does it occur to you that regime change might make Russia even worse?
I think Putin is a dangerous dictator, but will people from the Wagner Group be better?

All the possibilities are bad. But, on the other hand, Putin is 70 and isn’t going to live forever. There will be chaos whether Putin is ousted or dies due to natural causes. Like most dictators, he probably doesn’t have a succession plan. He helped create the kleptocracy that Russia is today and set the country on the course to an implosion. It’s just a matter of when, not if.

[Anonymous]

I can't wait to see what goodies leak from this chaos. Especially interested to see if Russian deep undercover agents are outed. Who knows, maybe the distractions on this blog will stop?

[Anonymous]

Prigozhin was responsible for the Russian hacking and troll farms that influenced the 2016 election. So yeah, it’s not going to get better. If anything, Prigozhin is more nationalist and conservative than Putin.

The best thing from US and Ukraine perspectives is that Russia has a big inward fight. This forces Russia to divert resources away from Ukraine, good chance for Ukraine to retake Crimea. If Putin gets ousted and Prigozhin & Zalensky can come to a truce, Russia could potentially get back into the global energy market by end of year. This will help reduce inflationary pressures and allow central banks to ease off interest rates.

Right now, everyone wins in the short term if Putin and his cronies are toppled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Prigozhin was responsible for the Russian hacking and troll farms that influenced the 2016 election. So yeah, it’s not going to get better. If anything, Prigozhin is more nationalist and conservative than Putin.

The best thing from US and Ukraine perspectives is that Russia has a big inward fight. This forces Russia to divert resources away from Ukraine, good chance for Ukraine to retake Crimea. If Putin gets ousted and Prigozhin & Zalensky can come to a truce, Russia could potentially get back into the global energy market by end of year. This will help reduce inflationary pressures and allow central banks to ease off interest rates.

Right now, everyone wins in the short term if Putin and his cronies are toppled.

The long-term issue is that Prigozhin is the head of a monstrous militia that has brutalized populations in Africa and the Middle East for years and fomented civil unrest in Sudan, Mali and other places for Russia's own ends. They are worse than a regular army in terms of war crimes on civilians. So Wagner needs to be destroyed, and Prigozhin must not be allowed to come to power. If they could weaken each other, Putin and Prigozhin, that would be great for everyone, but ultimately someone else, a bland bureaucrat, should pick up the pieces and rebuild Russia.

[Anonymous]

The Wagner convoy is now between Voronezh and Moscow. It does not appear that Wagner occupied any buildings in Voronezh, unlike in Rostov-on-Don.

Putin appears to have flown to Lake Valdai, NW of Moscow, where he has a bunkered residence.

[Anonymous]

I maliciously hope those Wagner knuckle draggers do to Putin some of the things his soldiers did to helpless Ukrainian women in the hospital maternity wards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prigozhin was responsible for the Russian hacking and troll farms that influenced the 2016 election. So yeah, it’s not going to get better. If anything, Prigozhin is more nationalist and conservative than Putin.

The best thing from US and Ukraine perspectives is that Russia has a big inward fight. This forces Russia to divert resources away from Ukraine, good chance for Ukraine to retake Crimea. If Putin gets ousted and Prigozhin & Zalensky can come to a truce, Russia could potentially get back into the global energy market by end of year. This will help reduce inflationary pressures and allow central banks to ease off interest rates.

Right now, everyone wins in the short term if Putin and his cronies are toppled.

The long-term issue is that Prigozhin is the head of a monstrous militia that has brutalized populations in Africa and the Middle East for years and fomented civil unrest in Sudan, Mali and other places for Russia's own ends. They are worse than a regular army in terms of war crimes on civilians. So Wagner needs to be destroyed, and Prigozhin must not be allowed to come to power. If they could weaken each other, Putin and Prigozhin, that would be great for everyone, but ultimately someone else, a bland bureaucrat, should pick up the pieces and rebuild Russia.

I agree but Prigozhin's crimes in Africa and the Middle East were funded and directed by Putin.

My hope is that Navalny could be released from prison. He is the one person who could be a unifying figure and perhaps rebuild Russia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prigozhin was responsible for the Russian hacking and troll farms that influenced the 2016 election. So yeah, it’s not going to get better. If anything, Prigozhin is more nationalist and conservative than Putin.

The best thing from US and Ukraine perspectives is that Russia has a big inward fight. This forces Russia to divert resources away from Ukraine, good chance for Ukraine to retake Crimea. If Putin gets ousted and Prigozhin & Zalensky can come to a truce, Russia could potentially get back into the global energy market by end of year. This will help reduce inflationary pressures and allow central banks to ease off interest rates.

Right now, everyone wins in the short term if Putin and his cronies are toppled.

The long-term issue is that Prigozhin is the head of a monstrous militia that has brutalized populations in Africa and the Middle East for years and fomented civil unrest in Sudan, Mali and other places for Russia's own ends. They are worse than a regular army in terms of war crimes on civilians. So Wagner needs to be destroyed, and Prigozhin must not be allowed to come to power. If they could weaken each other, Putin and Prigozhin, that would be great for everyone, but ultimately someone else, a bland bureaucrat, should pick up the pieces and rebuild Russia.

I agree but Prigozhin's crimes in Africa and the Middle East were funded and directed by Putin.

My hope is that Navalny could be released from prison. He is the one person who could be a unifying figure and perhaps rebuild Russia.

Right, but who but a monster could implement Putin's directives in this bloodthirsty way?

Navalny would certainly be an improvement, in that he wants more democracy, and does not seek to extend Russian territory. Don't forget he's also a conservative nationalist, homophobic, etc. Also, being an opposition figure is not the same as being in power, and having to hold together an immense territory full of wayward Governors and power-hungry elite. It's hard not to bribe people to be loyal to you in that situation, and then your democratic ideals go out of the window.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:lol. holy s*** looks like I was wrong!

Prigozhin didn't consolidate - he's half-way to Moscow!!!

"The seriousness of Yevgeny Prigozhin's intentions is evidenced by the capture of the next Russian city. Completely unimpeded, all military facilities and administrative buildings in Voronezh came under the control of Wagner PMC fighters."
https://myc.news/en/novosti_mira/armiya_prigozhina_bez_boya_zanyala_voronezh__

Remember for a coup to work you just need people in the government to do nothing. Much like the DOJ during J6.